I'm the one who initiated the divorce.

[S2B]

So I really am in that phase of grief called "bargaining." I can see calling off the divorce if my husband is willing to make specific changes, and I am able to enumerate them. Some immediate (e.g., consolidate his two storage units into one so he isn't spending over $400 a month on that), some lasting (e.g., I need him to hear my concerns when I raise them and not dismiss them).

 

In recent weeks, with these issues off the table (since they would not be my concern after a divorce) I have been able to see more of the man I grew to love years ago.

 

My husband has been resistant, even stonewalling on a number of important issues for years. The marriage therapist said it was like pulling teeth. At the time I told him we needed to divorce, I did not believe that he would agree to and follow through on these things.

 

Do ultimatums work, though? If I say, I am willing to call of the divorce but only with these specific requirements, well, does that kind of thing ever work?

 

I guess I'm thinking that since all is lost, maybe it's worth a try?

 

A decision gets made based on evidence of who the person actually is! Not how they would change to suit your needs (that's disrespecting who he actually is).

 

He IS this way! He has made choices! Including spending to store things - and mismanaging money.

 

These are not things to overlook. It is who he is.

 

And it has frustrated you for a lot of years.

 

Just be done with it. Stop thinking he will change! He won't!

 

It's time to move forward - not run backwards to what you KNOW doesn't work for YOU.

 

What are you afraid of?

[TennisGal]

SB2, I am afraid of giving up too easily. Which really doesn't make sense. We have been through years of this, including almost two years of therapy. But he has shown some changes in the last few weeks and is seeing a therapist.

 

I did tell him, a couple months ago when I said we needed to end our marriage, that I cannot ask him to be other than he is, and I cannot be other than I am. But these changes he has shown suggest he is willing to make some accommodations. But maybe I am kidding myself.

 

He says he doesn't want a divorce. But I'm not sure he is willing to do what is needed to prevent it.

[S2B]

SB2, I am afraid of giving up too easily. Which really doesn't make sense. We have been through years of this, including almost two years of therapy. But he has shown some changes in the last few weeks and is seeing a therapist.

 

I did tell him, a couple months ago when I said we needed to end our marriage, that I cannot ask him to be other than he is, and I cannot be other than I am. But these changes he has shown suggest he is willing to make some accommodations. But maybe I am kidding myself.

 

He says he doesn't want a divorce. But I'm not sure he is willing to do what is needed to prevent it.

 

If he hasn't made those changes already - after 2 years of therapy = he doesn't intend to (because he didn't make the effort to change his actions)!

 

Stop thinking it's different than reality.

 

It pissed you off enough to do therapy for TWO years! Who paid? Who wasted that money?

 

Because when any person pays good money to invoke change but the person paying doesn't DO the action required to change = you may as well been throwing money out the window while driving down the freeway!

 

You have SOLID evidence he is NOT changing!

 

Stop being delusional.

 

It's ok to be on your own - it's a happier place than being with someone who causes anxiety and for me to be unhappy.

 

You'll adjust - just sit tight - relax...take a vacation or something. Maybe a new dog or hobby would help?

[TennisGal]

I was on my own for years before we got married. I worked full-time at a professional job and got a doctorate at the same time. I can manage a life on my own.

[S2B]

I was on my own for years before we got married. I worked full-time at a professional job and got a doctorate at the same time. I can manage a life on my own.

 

Awesome!

 

Then carry on! ?

 

No need to settle for someone who irritates and disappoints you.

 

If you are still friendly with him then consider having dinner or lunch with him once every month or so as long as it doesn't upset you emotionally.

[TennisGal]

SB2, we are actually good friends, just poor spouses. And his daughters from his first marriage (now in their 30s) and two grandkids are very important to me. So yes, we will continue to have a relationship. I'm 61 and not looking for another marriage.

[Techie Artist]

Many good points mentioned above, the two most significant are "have my lawyer review the MSA to make sure it covered the points important to me and in a conforming manner." and "You should get your own attorney to represent your best interests."

 

A divorcing couple can create the agreement 100% with the mediator, but an attorney is required to convert the agreement into a legal format, and officially file the paperwork in the court system. Since the attorney is doing that much, might as well have him/her review the content of the agreement, too.

 

So, get an attorney now to perform these perfunctory but desirable tasks for you, the number of attorney hours will be minimal so cost will be minimal but well worth it.

 

If you represent yourself (pro se), a lawyer needs to do nothing. You file yourself. It depends on the state.

[TennisGal]

We are still living in the same house, though in different bedrooms. He said he's looking for a place, but I doubt it. I suggested he rent a townhouse with room for his all his things, but he says he doesn't want that. His choice.

 

We went to a family dinner with my parents and sister. My sisters know about the divorce, but I haven't told my parents yet. H asked that we tell them together, and we will tell them when we get back from vacation.

 

We are going to see the kids and grandkids 4th of July week (the "kids" are his daughters from his first marriage, they are in their 30s). He hasn't told them yet. He hasn't told his sister, who lives out of town. I won't tell them behind his back, but it is uncomfortable to pretend with people.

 

I think he is partly in denial. He doesn't want the divorce. We are still friends and still have a good time together. I really like him, but I don't want to be married to him. We are going on a cruise in September with another couple (they know we are going to divorce).

 

We agreed to make an appointment with a mediator the week after our vacation with the kids/grandkids.

 

Limbo is uncomfortable.

[TennisGal]

Tonight I am thinking about the times he has dismissed my concerns. For example, I asked him not to leave first floor windows, or the sliding door to the deck, open at night. I told him I feel unsafe with that.

 

He said "Nobody is going to climb up the deck and come in the house. Nobody is going to crawl over the bushes to get in the living room." We live in a suburb of a major metro area. I said, "Really? Find one [name of county] cop who agrees with that."

 

More recently, he said that I'm the "only person he knows" who is concerned about this.

 

And you know, it doesn't matter if I'm the only person on the planet who is concerned about this. His wife expressed a concern about feeling save in our home and he rejected it.

[bathtub-row]

It's my understanding that one attorney cannot represent both of you.

 

As far as giving him more money than he wants, I would leave it alone. He's apparently bad with money and will probably piss it away anyway. You're not his mommy.

[bathtub-row]

Tonight I am thinking about the times he has dismissed my concerns. For example, I asked him not to leave first floor windows, or the sliding door to the deck, open at night. I told him I feel unsafe with that.

 

He said "Nobody is going to climb up the deck and come in the house. Nobody is going to crawl over the bushes to get in the living room." We live in a suburb of a major metro area. I said, "Really? Find one [name of county] cop who agrees with that."

 

More recently, he said that I'm the "only person he knows" who is concerned about this.

 

And you know, it doesn't matter if I'm the only person on the planet who is concerned about this. His wife expressed a concern about feeling save in our home and he rejected it.

 

This guy doesn't sound like the sharpest knife in the drawer. Just sayin.

[TennisGal]

Yeah, I have to get over taking care of him.

 

He says he may have to work longer than he wants to because of the divorce (he is 65). If he would take the cash I want him to, it would cover rent & utilities for two years.

 

He'll make his bed and have to lie in it. Holy carp, he is his late father all over again.

[TennisGal]

Oh, and Bathtub, "not the sharpest knife in the drawer" is one of my favorite expressions. Along with "not the sharpest tool in the shed."

[S2B]

It may be worthwhile to talk to a counselor about your perspective with him. And about why you feel you need to look after him or his best interest. Does that make you feel powerful? In control? In charge?

 

Have you read the book by Melody Beattie - CoDeoendent No More?

 

You get something out of this feeling/perspective - what do you think it is?

 

Have you ever looked into the knight in shining armor syndrome? Do you think it may apply to you?

 

He didn't care about your feelings, wants or needs...you do deserve a man that does consider you and how you feel about things.

 

So why keep having him in your home? You're divorcing - have him move! Set a deadline for this Monday...he's never gonna move unless you tell him when.

 

And the vacations? Why? You'll never meet a new companion when he's still a placeholder! Be done with it so that YOU can move forward.

 

Start to build a NEW life.

 

Why hang on to what you know isn't working?

 

He's a grown ass man - quit allowing him to hold onto your purse strings like he's a little boy. He needs to grow up and he's not gonna do that as long as you baby him.

 

Like I said - did you read the book? You must get some benefit from thinking he relies on you...

[TennisGal]

Interesting. I will read the book.

 

We actually get along quite well if we ignore the big issues. We have a good time together as friends. Hence, going through with vacations we have planned -- but very short-term.

 

Our ability to get along is why I think we might be able to be friends. And that is good, in terms of maintaining relationships with my stepdaughters (his kids from his first marriage) and grandkids. But yes, I have to let go of taking care of him.

 

I am not looking for another relationship. I am 61. If it happens somewhere down the road, fine. But it's not a goal.

[TennisGal]

Oh, and Monday, we will be with the grandkids, watching fireworks on the beach. NOT missing that.

[springy]

Forgive me if I missed it, but did no one ever suggest or think of going to some sort of marital counseling? It sounds like you plan to continue on as usual, and just not live together?

[TennisGal]

Springy, we spent the better part of two years going to a marriage therapist.

He felt that he "got beat up." I felt he was resistant. The therapist said it was like pulling teeth.

[stillafool]

Yes, it's amicable, as much as this sort of thing can be. We had booked a cruise and plan to still go on it. And we will still use concert tickets we bought, going together.

 

Why would you do all of these things when you're divorcing? Why not move on? I know lots of people in their 60's who are dating and having fun. Hanging around with your ex husband is going to keep both of you from moving on to a happy relationship.

Edited July 1, 2016 by stillafool

[TennisGal]

Stillafool, these things will all occur within a very short time frame. It's not like we are going on a cruise next winter or spring. The things we arranged (and in the case of the cruise, arranged with friends) will all be over in 9 weeks. We won't be divorced by then.

[S2B]

Stillafool, these things will all occur within a very short time frame. It's not like we are going on a cruise next winter or spring. The things we arranged (and in the case of the cruise, arranged with friends) will all be over in 9 weeks. We won't be divorced by then.

 

Do you plan to cut ties socially after that?

 

Even if you decide not to be interested in dating, he might. And I would think any woman he dates may raise an eyebrow if he's spending time with you.

 

It's a placeholder effect... If your holding that position most women would have a problem with that.

 

Do you think it may be a bit uncomfortable for your friends that you plan to see - with them knowing you're divorcing but going on vacation with them?

 

As far as relationships with kids and grandkids - my therapist instructed me to build those relationships on my own - and completely separate from my exH. We were married a long time. My relationship with that family and my kids is MY relationship with them - not as a couple... Like I was used to for so many years.

 

I had to establish my healthy boundary that sent a clear message that I, as an individual, intended to have my own relationship with friends and family.

 

I stay out of his stuff. He stays out of mine. We had a family funeral a few months back and both sat near each other in the church (and actually his wife gave instructions to have me seated with them) - but I would never seek out participating beyond that. Separate lives now so that we've both been able to move forward and be happy.

[TennisGal]

We don't plan to cut ties, and he said he will always want me in his life. He says that now, but who knows what the future will bring? I'm willing to step away if he develops a new relationship.

 

And yes, I will maintain my own relationship with my stepdaughters and grandkids, respecting their wishes, of course. I have no problem visiting them with my STBX, which we are doing for 4th of July. He hasn't even told his daughters about the impending divorce yet -- delay and avoid, that's his way.

 

Our friends who are going on a cruise with us know about the divorce. We told them before the no-penalty cancellation date, in case they wanted to bail. They took a few days to think about it, and decided to still go.

 

We actually get along quite well if we ignore the big issues i can no longer live with -- the delay in following through on things large and small, what I consider the mismanagement of large sums of money, the keeping of storage units year after year (once since years before our marriage and second for the last decade), and his resistance to a cooperative financial partnership. We get along so well, that my parents (who we've had dinner with twice in the past couple of weeks) have no idea at all that we are divorcing and will be shocked when we tell them after our return from visiting the kids/grandkids this week.

Edited July 2, 2016 by TennisGal
Addition

[TennisGal]

Holy crap,this is hard.

 

I really like my husband, he's a nice guy. We have fun together.

We just came back from visiting the kids and grandkids. They are his kids from his first marriage (adults), and the grandkids are his daughter's kids. I love the kids and grandkids. He hasn't told them we are ending our marriage.

 

We are in such different places on life management, financial management, following through on things, etc. We aren't on the same page; we aren't even in the same book on things. And it makes me feel I can't count on him. So often, I think, "I really like this guy." But I can't continue to be legally and financially tied to someone who make choices he does.

 

This weekend I have to push him to book the appointment with the mediator. He said he would do that after we got back from visiting the kids. But his history is one of not following through.

[stillafool]

I thought you two were getting a divorce!? So why are you worried about all this other stuff. He isn't asking you for anything. Just look forward to the divorce.

[S2B]

When is the divorce supposed to be final?

 

You book the appointment. Just do it. You know he won't - so why ask him to do something NOW (that's that important!) when you know full well he isn't going to do it?

 

Just make that appt! Get the D finalized and be friendly like you plan to be.

 

And inform all family (including his) = because you have evidence he's never going to tell them.

 

Be honest, be strong... And protect your assets... Which is the main reason you're divorcing, right?

 

He is STILL giving you proof that he has no follow through... He's not good with his word.