Not sure where to post-Trust Issues

[dichotomy]

My bother had a very difficult marriage. To be sure he carried at least 50% of the blame for that difficult marriage - but his wife had major issues as well, and also cut him off (100%) from all sex for years. I understood why they divorced - but asked him why he did not cheat - since he had opportunities. His response was "I would have been so full of guilt and remorse - about what my kids thought of me cheating on their mom".

 

I see very little discussed here about the kids on either side. Its sad for all. I hope it all works out for everyone's happiness and peace - sometimes it does.

[TrustedthenBusted]

Trust is an illusion. Something you use to comfort yourself. It is a feeling inside you foster yourself, that allows you to feel protected from something while actually offering no protections or guarantees of any kind.

 

Other people can say and do things that make it easier for you to comfort yourself and control your feelings of jealousy or suspicion, but in the end, it's still a false shield.

[Lady Hamilton]

I think most people here are hesitant to discuss their children for obvious reasons. I know I for one and deliberately elusive on details of my children. This isn't exactly a safe place to do so.

[Mrs. John Adams]

IN most cases trust has to be earned. The one exception of course is the trust of a child.. They trust blindly...

 

My husband trusted me... I destroyed that trust

I have worked very hard to earn it back

 

I doubt he ever blindly trusts me again

 

I know couples who are affair partners.. They cheated on their spouses with each other. Both couples I am speaking of have been married over 20 years now.

 

So it is not necessarily true that cheaters will cheat again. They certainly can.. But it is not a case of saying if they cheated with you they will cheat on you.

 

Op... You need to tell your partner your fears and concerns.. The key to any relationship is communication.

 

You both need to make each other feel safe. If you don't feel safe.. Tell him.

[ladydesigner]

My parents were both married to someone else when they met. They immeditely left their spouses within months and have been together since. They have been marrried for 44 years, but my mom went on to have 3 more affairs. Their M has never fully recovered.

[road]

They cheat with you time has repeatedly shown they will cheat on you.

 

 

Statistics prove that once a cheater.....................

 

 

They are likely to cheat again. So the odds are your next marriage have lying and cheating.

 

 

Does not happen every time though it happens more times then not. Normal for you to have doubts about your OM. He lied to his wife. He cheated on her. He took the easy way out and dumped his wife and his own children.

 

 

There is no reason for you to feel confident that he will not do the same to you and your kids and to any kids that you may have together.

 

 

Remember he was madly in love with wife #1 and he refused to work and save that marriage. He didn't try to save nothing all he did was use his time was to cheat on his BW.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Road is right... It can happen

 

I could cheat on my husband again too

 

It could happen

 

But it could happen to anyone

 

You will find that infidelity tends to cause folks to think negatively... And with good reason

 

Infidelity destroys lives

 

You and your affair partner destroyed two families ... It's too late now to undo it

 

But you both can be supportive of your ex spouses and can be the best parents to your children you can be

 

Look at the mistakes you made in your old relationships and learn from those mistakes and don't make them again.

 

You know how to affair proof this relationship simply because you know exactly what not to do

[TrustedthenBusted]

I know couples who are affair partners.. They cheated on their spouses with each other. Both couples I am speaking of have been married over 20 years now.

 

So it is not necessarily true that cheaters will cheat again.

 

I agree with your whole post, but this part stuck out. Being married to your AP for 20 years doesn't necessarily mean the cheating has stopped for either of them though.

 

Hell...I've been with my wife 20 years too.

[66Charger]

Even though you need no ones approval, It is hard to find fault, when I feel this is textbook for what you should do, if you find yourself in love with another. Control yourself. Hold your boundaries. Try NC, and if it doesn't work, come clean and separate or divorce.

 

I guess my only caution is to hold for a bit to see how things sort out a little further down the road. I redact my last comment and wish you well.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I agree with your whole post, but this part stuck out. Being married to your AP for 20 years doesn't necessarily mean the cheating has stopped for either of them though.

 

Hell...I've been with my wife 20 years too.

 

You are absolutely correct... It could still happen.. However it is unlikely... None of them are young spring chickens anymore...

 

But it certainly could still happen

 

I apologize for misrepresenting that

 

My point was they have been married to each to their a long time

[Lady Hamilton]

Op... You need to tell your partner your fears and concerns.. The key to any relationship is communication.

 

You both need to make each other feel safe. If you don't feel safe.. Tell him.

 

This is very true.

 

When I was dealing with my issues of trust, I was able to say flat out "I don't trust you. I feel like you'll leave again." That was key. To be able to say it, and for him to respond to it and fix it (along with me fixing what I could fix on my end).

[Lady Hamilton]

They cheat with you time has repeatedly shown they will cheat on you.

 

 

Statistics prove that once a cheater.....................

 

They are likely to cheat again. So the odds are your next marriage have lying and cheating.

 

So then what's the point of reconciliation? If "once a cheater, always a cheater" that means that reconciliation is certain failure as the person will cheat again.

 

After all, the OW was the one who he did the cheating with. The wife is the only one he's proven to be willing to cheat on.

 

And I'd personally love to see the double-blind, reputable study that says that people who cheat always cheat again.

 

Does not happen every time though it happens more times then not. Normal for you to have doubts about your OM. He lied to his wife. He cheated on her. He took the easy way out and dumped his wife and his own children.

 

As somebody who left their spouse and had their partner leave their spouse in order to maintain our relationship that was started as an affair... I have to say, we were told it was the "easy way out" frequently.

 

I've yet to find exactly when the "easy" part starts.

 

There is no reason for you to feel confident that he will not do the same to you and your kids and to any kids that you may have together.

 

Remember he was madly in love with wife #1 and he refused to work and save that marriage. He didn't try to save nothing all he did was use his time was to cheat on his BW.

 

I think you see and assume what you want to see and assume.

 

How do you know he was "madly in love" with his first wife? How do you know they didn't try to save the marriage?

 

Sometimes the marriage is long over and all efforts to reconcile resolved before the affair even starts. By the wife saying she wasn't surprised by the affair, knew when it started, and their amicably divorcing, it sounds like the marriage had run it's course before the affair (which wasn't physical) started.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Lady Hamilton

[TrustedthenBusted]

So then what's the point of reconciliation? If "once a cheater, always a cheater" that means that reconciliation is certain failure as the person will cheat again.

.

 

I kind of feel " Once a cheater, always a cheater.....until you get caught, that is."

 

I think once a cheater truly understands the devastation, the risk, the fallout, and the overwhelming loss their cheating has caused....well, some folks are changed by such things.

 

I have a buddy who drove drunk for years....til he hit someone, REALLY hurt them, and then sat in the pokey for a year. Not another drop of the hooch since then.

[Lady Hamilton]

I kind of feel " Once a cheater, always a cheater.....until you get caught, that is."

 

I think once a cheater truly understands the devastation, the risk, the fallout, and the overwhelming loss their cheating has caused....well, some folks are changed by such things.

 

I have a buddy who drove drunk for years....til he hit someone, REALLY hurt them, and then sat in the pokey for a year. Not another drop of the hooch since then.

 

What you kind of feel though isn't reality.

 

Some people know the devastation they caused, they don't care, and they cheat again. Look at all the foiled R on these forums where they get what harm they did but they cheat anyway.

 

Some people don't know and don't care to know but still don't cheat again because what led them to cheat initially was so profoundly the exception to how they conduct themselves that it was a one-time and done scenario.

 

Each situation is unique and so is each response and each result.

 

"Once a cheater, always a cheater" under any condition with any proviso is a reflection of the person who wants to believe it and not a universal reality.

[Sub]

If anything, I guess imsosad can glean from this that certainty is going to be hard to come by, and if it does, it will take time. I don't think the possibility of him cheating should necessarily be the focus. Whatever he's being evasive about now, he needs to know it's not going to fly moving forward. If he's receptive to her concerns, maybe she can feel comfortable taking another step forward with him. If he's defensive, it's a legit concern.

[minimariah]

I worry about it, I admit.

 

i think that's normal; you wonder about his life choices and want to know more. you want him to dig deeper and explore his possible issues so he can learn how to be a better partner - to recognize the problems and communicate on TIME. and that's all mature and reasonable & to be honest... you DO sound more mature, reasonable and grounded than your AP; how does he feel about counseling...? how do you feel about it...?

[TrustedthenBusted]

What you kind of feel though isn't reality.

 

Some people know the devastation they caused, they don't care, and they cheat again. Look at all the foiled R on these forums where they get what harm they did but they cheat anyway.

 

Some people don't know and don't care to know but still don't cheat again because what led them to cheat initially was so profoundly the exception to how they conduct themselves that it was a one-time and done scenario.

 

Each situation is unique and so is each response and each result.

 

"Once a cheater, always a cheater" under any condition with any proviso is a reflection of the person who wants to believe it and not a universal reality.

 

We're describing opposite sides of the same thing. I believe some people ARE changed by the devastation they cause, and you believe that some aren't.

 

Same/Same, no?

[heartwhole]

What jumps out to me about your situation isn't the idea that you should be worried about him cheating on you since you have pretty good reason to believe he had never cheated before and he wanted the happily ever after with you, not just sex. But what bothers you, rightly, is his lack of guilt and his lack of concern over what others would think (shame). Is he wired differently than you, with looser morals, lack of insight into self, a tendency to avoid conflict (not dealing with his marriage sooner), a blunted conscience, etc.? Those issues would trouble me as well.

 

During the affair, my husband tried to toe a line with regards to the truth. He felt lies of omission were OK, but lies of commission were not. So when I directly asked him about the OW, he admitted to the affair and ended it. While he was not a shining pinnacle of honesty and integrity during this time, I at least can trust that he's not willing or able to straight up lie to my face. During the A, he sought counseling and confided in a few friends. The counselor and the friends all said, "WTF are you doing?" and while he did not end the A, he was concerned enough about losing the support of everyone he cared about that he didn't just cast me aside to ride off into the sunset with the OW. While my husband was vilifying me and lacking empathy and concern for me, he was at least concerned about his public image. Where does your MM fall in all of this?

 

As for rebuilding trust, it has to be built deliberately, and it has to stand the test of time. I think a married couple should share passcodes and passwords. They should be free to answer and use each others' phones. There will always be others with whom we feel a connection, to whom we are attracted. But if you've made a solid choice about the person to spend your life with, then you protect that choice by having no walls between you. You clearly didn't have that type of relationship with your stbXH or else this thing with MM would not have taken root, so you do have a lot of work to do to build things the right way this time. And yes, absolutely you have reason to doubt MM's integrity and trustworthiness.

 

I am an honorable woman. I act in good faith. My husband is darn lucky to have me. I put up with immaturity and selfishness before because, well, that's what you do, right? But post-affair, nope, no thanks. I have expected him to work on all his issues. I know what I bring to the table and what I deserve. I'm not going to settle. Thankfully he is willing to do the work.

 

Your MM seems to think that you should trust he won't cheat on you because he luuuuurves you so much, but how do you know 20 years from now, when the bloom is off the rose, he won't go to a party and see another woman across the room and bam, just have to have her? He needs to do the work to understand that this happened because he did not nurture or end his marriage as he should have, because he did not have proper boundaries, because he did not know how to address his needs and deal with conflict. He needs to work on empathy and concern for others. He needs to examine why he would be little troubled by guilt and shame, or with the idea of adultery. I'd want some solid answers to those questions before granting someone the honor of my hand.

[Liam1]

 

I want to trust him completely, but I kind of feel like a BS , needing to build trust from scratch (I apologize if it offends Betrayed Spouses, I know I havent gone through the pain you have and probably inflicted similar pain on my h)

 

The sad fact is that a person should never totally and blindly trust another person.

 

People are human beings and ALL humans are vulnerable to an affair if the timing is right and there are marital issues and a mutual attraction.

 

So rather than worrying about trust, worry about working on keeping your marriage healthy.

 

Until I had my affair, I was the type of guy who never cheated on girlfriends. My men friends would actually tease me about it.

 

In school I was the captain of my wrestling team and a Physics major and women were always approaching me. Some were pretty aggressive, but if I was in a dating relationship, I turned them down.

 

Same after I married. I was often approached at business functions by both married and single women who wanted to get involved even though I was married. I turned them down.

 

Then bingo, after ten years of a sexless marriage, and constantly being hit on by attractive women who were interested in sex, I finally caved.

 

Like I said, anyone is vulnerable to an affair.

 

The best option is to keep your marriage healthy so neither you or your spouse is not vulnerable.

 

Both spouses need to work on the marriage, too. One person can not keep a marriage healthy alone.

[Moxie Lady]

In school I was the captain of my wrestling team and a Physics major and women were always approaching me. Some were pretty aggressive, but if I was in a dating relationship, I turned them down.

 

Same after I married. I was often approached at business functions by both married and single women who wanted to get involved even though I was married. I turned them down.

 

Then bingo, after ten years of a sexless marriage, and constantly being hit on by attractive women who were interested in sex, I finally caved.

 

Like I said, anyone is vulnerable to an affair.

 

The best option is to keep your marriage healthy so neither you or your spouse is not vulnerable.

 

Both spouses need to work on the marriage, too. One person can not keep a marriage healthy alone.

 

I dont think you are qualified to say that anyone is vulnerable to an affair, just based on your own experience. You dont know that and by the way you are wrong about that. Some people will never have an affair. Never.

 

This is quite a write up about how desirable both single and married women found you for decades. Did you wife get hit on and how desirable do you think she is/was for other men? I assume that works both ways.

[katielee]

The best thing to do is keep yourself mentally healthy and your boundaries rock solid so you don't cheat. It has nothing to do with your marriage. It has to do with yourself.

[Just a Guy]

Hi Imsosad, your moniker on this forum says it all. I am sorry to say this but a house built in the sand will never be safe. It will get washed away with the first flood that engulfs it. Both of you are coming from a place of cheating betrayal of your respective ex spouses. You may have trusted your husband but ate you so sure he trusted you in return? If his sixth sense warned him during the course of your affair, which may or may not actually have happened I would think he would have been on his guard. Did you ever seriously try and repair your marriage when you felt it was foundering? Did your husband try? This should have been a joint venture. It is so easy yo bail on a marriage that already exists and go for something uncertain as a marriage with an affair partner. If your first marriage, which was based on trust and a certain set of principles and values, did not last do you think a marriage with an affair partner will be more solid? You have four kids with your ex husband. Do you think your AP and to be second husband will gel with them? Will you gel with his kids? Will your kids gel with their new step siblings? These are questions that should haunt you.

Apart from all this, from the little that you have written about your AP, it seems the two of you have a divergence of principles which bodes I'll for the two of you. Anyway, you have made your bed now you must lie on it.

[Grey Cloud]

Is he the kind of man who usually puts on a tough front, a bit of bravado?

 

I find it truly shocking if he really didn't feel guilty at all for cheating on his pregnant wife.

You don't indicate hatred & resentments from years of HER abuse or infidelity. If it was just a "I don't love her anymore" then I would expect sad feelings about all of his betrayals.

You don't have to be in love with someone to recognize the pain & devastation that you're causing a fellow human being, particularly one who you've shared your life with AND is having your baby.

 

I'd be worried. He sounds cold & shallow. The ability to not feel anything isn't a strength. Everyone I've ever known has mourned the end of their marriage & regretted pain inflicted on past loves regardless of how much the divorce was needed.

 

He's proven that he can easily 'flick the switch' when he wants to. That would really bother me.

 

I feel like you have described my xMM! It always bothered me how he said he had a good marriage and loved his wife and yet could still cheat on her. He also said "as long as no one gets hurt and no one finds out". He would feel occasional pangs of guilt but for the most part he could rationalise and justify everything in a bizarre way that made complete sense to him. And then gaslight his wife when she asked him if he was having an affair.

 

For that reason I would definitely have trust issues with him if there had of been a future. He could flick a switch with ease.

 

Imsosad - I can imagine it would be tough. Only time will tell if he is being evasive or not. You are still adjusting to each other and learning about each other. And under a huge amount of stress as well, it can't be easy ending two marriages.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Grey Cloud

[merrmeade]

I feel like you have described my xMM! It always bothered me how he said he had a good marriage and loved his wife and yet could still cheat on her. He also said "as long as no one gets hurt and no one finds out". He would feel occasional pangs of guilt but for the most part he could rationalise and justify everything in a bizarre way that made complete sense to him. And then gaslight his wife when she asked him if he was having an affair. ... He could flick a switch with ease.

Doesn't this describe most cheaters? Isn't it how they HAVE to be to cope with what they're doing? I'm seriously asking.

[Liam1]

your worst deeds dont always define you,right?) and i agree that infidelity,lying and other trust issues can occur in almost any marriage.

 

I do not think having an affair is the worst deed, if the marriage is troubled or if a person married in haste and now realizes they never loved their spouse.

 

My FOW had numerous affairs, that were never discovered by her husband.

 

She said she had affairs because she only married her husband as a meal ticket, not for love. She freely admitted that to everyone who would listen, me, friends, family. She liked the lifestyle he provided and the fact that he did not want or need her to work. She did not want to work,

 

You acknowledge that you also participated in the cheating, so here is a question to ask yourself... Do you think you will cheat on your affair partner if you leave your spouse to marry him?

 

If not, why are you putting evil intent onto your affair partner while absolving yourself?

 

Do you love this man and does he love you?

 

My M was troubled for a long time prior to the affair, but trust was not an issue. By and large, I believed my H.

That was a false sense of trust. For all you know he was cheating on you, too. How do you know he was not.

 

If you do some research you will see that a large percentage of affairs are never discovered by the other spouse. The affair fizzles and the other spouse is non the wiser, in a very large percentage of affairs.

 

 

I dont want to fall in to a pattern of playing detective or interrogator.

Again, since you both cheated, the best option for both of you is to focus on keeping your relationship healthy. You will not be able to watch him, or anyone, 24/7.

 

A large percentage of affair meetings take place before work and during lunch hour. So, unless you can afford to hire a PI to shadow him 24/7 there will be no way to ensure he is where he says he is 24/7.

 

There is no way to ensure that another person you may marry is not having an affair, either.

 

Anyone and everyone is vulnerable to an affair, if their spouse is disagreeable or withholding or emotionally abusive or if they never loved their spouse but married for reasons other than love.