Looking for others perspectives.

[Oran]

As difficult to admit as it is, I have been an OW for almost exactly 3 years. Like many here I never would have imagined that I would ever be this. But I am, or atleast I have been.

 

My AP and I met quite by accident and began what was a friendship. We had clicked as friends sharing a similar sense of humour, a similar perspective. Unknown to me at the time we also had, not similar life experiences, but certainly experiences which paralleled one another which has enabled a deep level of empathy between us. We have both endured difficult families of origin which has impacted on our lives. When I met my AP I had been very lonely and began an e-mail correspondence which turned into a daily correspondence, explaining to my new friend what had been happening in my life. I did not realise that as I was sharing my thoughts and experiences, he was becoming overwhelmed by how similar our difficulties had been. In reality it is only now that I understand that.

 

Three months after meeting, our A began. A year before my father had passed away in quite harrowing circumstances. I had felt unsupported by friends, colleagues and my partner at the time, he left me a week before my father's death. At the time I upped and left my job and went abroad for sometime. When I returned to my home country I was quite lost and unattached to any family or social group. In many respects I channeled all my needs on my AP, and in many respects my isolation led me to making the decision to be involved with a MM. I've often wondered if the lack of commitment suited me then, I was hurt and did not want closeness. However there was intensity.

 

Five months after initially meeting my AP I moved abroad again. It had been my plan and I felt guilty towards his BS and grown up children. For the year that I was abroad I maintained contact with my MM and returned to my home country once during this time and spent a week with him. We had begun talking about the future, our future together. He and his family were going through a very difficult time, and while this was happening neither he nor I felt it was fair to end his marriage. I know also that it was not fair to continue the A, even as an EA during the time I was abroad.

 

I returned again to my home country to work in a remote area miles away from my AP. We met during this time and although I knew I loved and wanted my AP, I was consumed by guilt for what we were doing. During this time his wife had begun to uncover e-mails and realised that something was wrong. I was aware of my APs lies to cover up the reality of our A, and the damage that we were both causing his BS.

 

To the outside world I was a single woman. None of my friends knew about my AP, in fact I distanced myself from friends so that they would not find out. I became friends with a male work colleague, and we became closer and closer. Eventually the possibility of a real relationship with a single, available man outweighed the promise of possible real relationship of a currently MM. I told my AP that we were finished and I began a relationship with my work colleague.

 

My AP bombarded me with phone calls, e-mails, social media messages. He contacted the man I was in a relationship with, he contacted my place of work, my boss. Eventually I left my job and my new relationship with my work colleague broke down as he and I were intimidated by my exAPs behavior. (I have to stress that the situation that my AP and his family was going through at the time was devastating, which may go some way to explain his erratic behavior at the time. This is how I have justified it to myself).

 

My exAP contacted me everyday after I had broken things off with him. I moved again to a new place, and eventually through isolation and loneliness I began communicating with my exAP, and after 6 months we met again, and after a few difficult months we resumed our A.

 

My AP organised himself to leave his BS and move with me to set up a new life together. When I arrived to meet him I was horrified to discover that he had not even told his BS that he was leaving to be with me. BS thought he had moved away to take up a temporary 'dream job'. He then went back to his BS and told her everything. Then he returned to me and told me that he still loved his wife (until that point he had always resolutely said that he was not in love with his wife), and that they had been sexually intimate then for the first time in a long time.

 

I left. It was simple. He loved his wife. I was distraught. As I know she was. God help me, I remained in contact with him and returned to him. He told me that he had left his BS for me and I had abandoned him.

 

I have lived with him for the past 4 months. During that time I have learned that when I latterly left him, he contacted his BS that night and told her that he would no longer pursue a relationship with me. I asked him to tell BS that I was living with him but he refused and claimed that if he did tell her, she would force the sale of their marital home and leave his grown up children looking for somewhere to live.

 

Last week his BS arrived at our door. I had almost been expecting her. My AP looked stunned. She produced a legal letter stating that they had legally separated in Dec last year. She now wished to make the financial settlement, sell the marital home, and just as my AP said, leave his children to look for somewhere else to live.

 

BS wants to reconcile with her husband. She has used the financial settlement and the living arrangements of their children as leverage. My AP has agreed to reconciliation. I have left and have asked for NC. AP tells me that he loves me and wanted a future with me, but does not want to see his children in a difficult situation. I am afraid the reality is that he simply does not want to tell me he loves his wife.

 

Please let me know what you think of this situation. I am a relatively intelligent woman (believe it or not) which makes it even more painful to have embroiled myself in this situation.

 

Have I finally done the right thing? Is there any point holding out hope that perhaps this man does love me? Can they reconcile their marriage if BS feels that she has blackmailed him into returning to her? Am I a complete fool?

 

Oran

[immokk]

I read that and there were elements that read a little like my own story (and I'm only 5 day NC so don't listen to me, probably, I'm talking poo).

 

But I'm sorry for you.

 

 

I think the right thing to do here is let him deal with his stuff. It seems to me that he is very confused. I am very different to some in that I simply cannot have sex without lots of genuine affection, I just can't enjoy it. Not everyone is the same and men certainly aren't but ... he told his wife, they had sex, if I'm reading right? And this doesn't sit right with me. It seems off.

 

Then he loves her, he doesn't, he loves you, he's with you, he's not...

 

At least I never had this pain with my xMM... whether meant or not he never wavered back and forth and when it ended, he turned cold but still never revoked anything or changed his mind about his wife.

 

It's amazing to me that you can hurt someone you love but people do it all the time. That is why I think it is perfectly feasible for the MM to love the OW and still not leave. He has love for both, in many cases.

 

And I do think much of the time the 'I love her but I'm not in love with her' is also true. But that's enough for some people.

 

It's not for me. I want to be in love, I don't want to just care. I don't want a room mate. I want actual love.

 

He's hurt you so many times. Walk away. It's hard but it's best for you.

 

But I know nothing. I'm just aching, like lots of other people on here.

[Oran]

Hi immokk

 

Thanks for your reply. This is day 3 NC for me, and tbh after such a long time of turmoil, it feels like a relief. To know now that he does love his wife makes the NC easier. I don't want to know how the reconciliation is going, and his wife has the right for no one else to be involved (as she always did).

 

I almost feel as though I have just woken up.

 

I'm sorry that you are also suffering and I'd like to read your story if it's posted here? Do you think you understand why you had an A?

[BuddyX]

Oldest line in the book "My wife doesn't understand me."

 

Second line, " Trust me I'm not like all the other guys who cheat on their wives, I'm different.

 

Run, don't walk from this guy. He's a cake eater.

[Oran]

Hi BuddyX

 

*gulp* yep, harsh truths, but truths nonetheless. When I met AP I truly believed everything he said. I thought he was a good man, I couldn't understand why he wanted to pursue an A. I thought he'd been so injured by his wife's infidelities. Reality is, I don't even know if that's true. Reality is, even if it was true, that's no justification for our A. I honestly believed that second line, I'm not like the other guys who cheat. Or maybe it just suited me to believe it, elevate the A from what it really was.

 

Thanks for your reply.

[minimariah]

there has to be ANOTHER way to settle the finances though. who owns the home...? can he pay her out or something...? i doubt she'd leave her kids without a home - where would SHE live?

 

i think she's bluffing with the settlement.

[Lobe]

First, don't beat yourself up. You've found the right place to get support from people who know exactly what you are going through.

 

Two things stand out in your story.

 

1) He is a manipulative bully. I would personally be very afraid of maintaining contact with someone who loves me SO DAMNED MUCH that even if he can't have me, no one else can. WSs who are in exit affairs may waffle back and forth, but they eventually leave of their own accord because the marriage was broken before the A started. WSs who are using their AP as a side piece for ego kibbles lie as much to the AP as they do to the BS, and will do anything they can to hang onto both because they want to keep eating cake. I find the fact this guy actively destroyed your ability to have a normal relationship and screwed up your job reprehensible - the guys sounds unhinged and dangerous. Let his BS deal with him.

 

2) The adult kids being stranded thing... He is transferring guilt to you in order to be a cake-eater. Do you honestly think REGARDLESS of whether he signs or not, that the children's mother is going to force their kids onto the street to be homeless to punish her WH? I assure you, the LAST thing I would do is punish my kids for my WH's selfishness and stupidity. Besides, if they are adults, they gotta move out sometime anyways - maybe this is a blessing in disguise to launch the entitled brats. Why are you worried about adult children? As much as she's using the separation agreement as leverage, he's using it on you and you're eating it up. Don't buy it, not for a nanosecond. He isn't being "blackmailed" into staying - he just knows that you're already trained to respond appropriately - once he smooths things over with wifey, he knows you'll be waiting.

 

Don't be this man's emotional punching bag, don't be his doormat, don't be his sperm receptacle, don't be his ego kibbles. If this was a man your daughter was dating, what advice would you give HER?

 

To the curb, man. I think Lady Hamilton married her AP - you might want to ask her what her experience was of making it work.

[cocorico]

As difficult to admit as it is, I have been an OW for almost exactly 3 years. Like many here I never would have imagined that I would ever be this. But I am, or atleast I have been.

 

My AP and I met quite by accident and began what was a friendship. We had clicked as friends sharing a similar sense of humour, a similar perspective. Unknown to me at the time we also had, not similar life experiences, but certainly experiences which paralleled one another which has enabled a deep level of empathy between us. We have both endured difficult families of origin which has impacted on our lives. When I met my AP I had been very lonely and began an e-mail correspondence which turned into a daily correspondence, explaining to my new friend what had been happening in my life. I did not realise that as I was sharing my thoughts and experiences, he was becoming overwhelmed by how similar our difficulties had been. In reality it is only now that I understand that.

 

Three months after meeting, our A began. A year before my father had passed away in quite harrowing circumstances. I had felt unsupported by friends, colleagues and my partner at the time, he left me a week before my father's death. At the time I upped and left my job and went abroad for sometime. When I returned to my home country I was quite lost and unattached to any family or social group. In many respects I channeled all my needs on my AP, and in many respects my isolation led me to making the decision to be involved with a MM. I've often wondered if the lack of commitment suited me then, I was hurt and did not want closeness. However there was intensity.

 

Five months after initially meeting my AP I moved abroad again. It had been my plan and I felt guilty towards his BS and grown up children. For the year that I was abroad I maintained contact with my MM and returned to my home country once during this time and spent a week with him. We had begun talking about the future, our future together. He and his family were going through a very difficult time, and while this was happening neither he nor I felt it was fair to end his marriage. I know also that it was not fair to continue the A, even as an EA during the time I was abroad.

 

I returned again to my home country to work in a remote area miles away from my AP. We met during this time and although I knew I loved and wanted my AP, I was consumed by guilt for what we were doing. During this time his wife had begun to uncover e-mails and realised that something was wrong. I was aware of my APs lies to cover up the reality of our A, and the damage that we were both causing his BS.

 

To the outside world I was a single woman. None of my friends knew about my AP, in fact I distanced myself from friends so that they would not find out. I became friends with a male work colleague, and we became closer and closer. Eventually the possibility of a real relationship with a single, available man outweighed the promise of possible real relationship of a currently MM. I told my AP that we were finished and I began a relationship with my work colleague.

 

My AP bombarded me with phone calls, e-mails, social media messages. He contacted the man I was in a relationship with, he contacted my place of work, my boss. Eventually I left my job and my new relationship with my work colleague broke down as he and I were intimidated by my exAPs behavior. (I have to stress that the situation that my AP and his family was going through at the time was devastating, which may go some way to explain his erratic behavior at the time. This is how I have justified it to myself).

 

My exAP contacted me everyday after I had broken things off with him. I moved again to a new place, and eventually through isolation and loneliness I began communicating with my exAP, and after 6 months we met again, and after a few difficult months we resumed our A.

 

My AP organised himself to leave his BS and move with me to set up a new life together. When I arrived to meet him I was horrified to discover that he had not even told his BS that he was leaving to be with me. BS thought he had moved away to take up a temporary 'dream job'. He then went back to his BS and told her everything. Then he returned to me and told me that he still loved his wife (until that point he had always resolutely said that he was not in love with his wife), and that they had been sexually intimate then for the first time in a long time.

 

I left. It was simple. He loved his wife. I was distraught. As I know she was. God help me, I remained in contact with him and returned to him. He told me that he had left his BS for me and I had abandoned him.

 

I have lived with him for the past 4 months. During that time I have learned that when I latterly left him, he contacted his BS that night and told her that he would no longer pursue a relationship with me. I asked him to tell BS that I was living with him but he refused and claimed that if he did tell her, she would force the sale of their marital home and leave his grown up children looking for somewhere to live.

 

Last week his BS arrived at our door. I had almost been expecting her. My AP looked stunned. She produced a legal letter stating that they had legally separated in Dec last year. She now wished to make the financial settlement, sell the marital home, and just as my AP said, leave his children to look for somewhere else to live.

 

BS wants to reconcile with her husband. She has used the financial settlement and the living arrangements of their children as leverage. My AP has agreed to reconciliation. I have left and have asked for NC. AP tells me that he loves me and wanted a future with me, but does not want to see his children in a difficult situation. I am afraid the reality is that he simply does not want to tell me he loves his wife.

 

Please let me know what you think of this situation. I am a relatively intelligent woman (believe it or not) which makes it even more painful to have embroiled myself in this situation.

 

Have I finally done the right thing? Is there any point holding out hope that perhaps this man does love me? Can they reconcile their marriage if BS feels that she has blackmailed him into returning to her? Am I a complete fool?

 

Oran

 

I was an OW for a little over three years. My fMM left his BW and we have now been M for several years.

 

Our R looked nothing like yours. My H did not ever lie to me, nor did he lie to his xBW (except by omission, through not disclosing the A until we decided we wanted to be together full-time). He also did not play this push-pull game, nor did he harass or intimidate anyone either during the A or since. Instead, he always treated me as his priority, was honest about his intentions and how he felt toward me, and included me openly in his life.

 

Whether or not he loves you, and whether or not he loves the BW, he is not treating either of you with love or respect. Even if he dumped her tomorrow, sold the house etc and moved back in with you, would you want a LTR with someone who treats people that badly because of his own inability to face confrontation? Who harasses and intimidates to get his own way? Who raised kids to a state of dependence, such they require him to provide them with shelter, but can't hold a grown up conversation with them regarding the sale of the house and the need for everyone to find alternative accommodation? Is this what you would be willing to sign up for? Because it's unlikely to stop there.

 

My view - you've invested three years in the R, and it's seen you through some rough times. But you're capable of other Rs, as you've seen, with less problematic people. Cut your losses on this one, be happy he played a role when you needed him, and be grateful you no longer do.

[Oran]

Hi minimariah

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

I think my big concern (or alarm bell) over the settlement is not so much in the detail itself. If my AP was ready to live with me, and having told BS about the A, then if he was set on his decision, he would have realised that a financial settlement in the process of divorcing was inevitable.

 

My concern is that this is almost an 'honorable' exit strategy for him, he is pursuing reconciliation for the sake of his adult children's welfare. I am left believing that he has fallen on his sword to protect them. Surely the reality is that he is pursing reconciliation with BS because he actually still loves her? But he hasn't got the guts to tell me.

 

In many ways I think you're right, she may be bluffing about the settlement, but that's because she wants reconciliation. And the reality is, maybe he does too.

[BuddyX]

Used this quote way too many times. But here's some harsh truth.

 

"They all say its guilt, kids, blah blah.

 

Translation: I don't want everyone to know what a selfish ass I am. I want to keep my money and maintain the status quo.

 

If they felt guilty about their affairs and their kids, why are they spending time away from their kids in bed with an OW?"

[Yellowteacup]

Leave him and take whatever dignity and integrity you have left and move far far away. NC begins NOW!

[Oran]

Hi Lobe

 

I hear you. When I was writing this post today I was thinking about how this A has consumed my life really since my father died. I have no doubt that I was vulnerable through grief when I met AP. And I did nothing to help myself by moving around, isolating myself. Ironically that negative behavior of isolating myself has helped to feed the A.

 

There is a very complicated back story behind all of this, but that does not excuse certain behavior. I don't think it was quite as clear cut as 'if I can't have you, then no one will', but there was definitely negative, destructive behavior there, and I did/do find that worrying.

 

" He isn't being "blackmailed" into staying..." I think I agree. "Why are you worried about adult children?". A person can divorce their spouse, but a parent never becomes not-a-parent if that makes sense.

 

I am glad that I found this forum. I'm glad to be NC. I think I need to forget about the A which has been my primary focus for so long, and to concentrate on settling and building up my social circle.

[anika99]

It sounds pretty lame to me. Why does the BS have to provide a home for the adult children? Why can't they leave the nest and find their own living arrangements? If it's so important to your MM to give his adult children a home why can't he provide that without reconciling with the BS? I think he has been playing you both.

[Oran]

Hi Yellowteacup

 

Thanks for your reply. I am NC already.

[Oran]

Hi Cocorico

 

Thanks for your reply. I hear what you're saying. There are ways and means of doing things which limit hurt and ensure that people involved are respected. My AP has not behaved in this way, and in reality neither have I.

[Oran]

Hi Anika99

 

Thanks for your reply. I think it's more to do with timing. AP doesn't think that he should provide shelter for his adult children 'forever'. It's that this would be a particularly difficult time for both to find new places to stay. I think they key point is that this seems to be being used for leverage. Perhaps.

[minimariah]

Surely the reality is that he is pursing reconciliation with BS because he actually still loves her?

 

i REALLY doubt he loves her; however... i'm pretty sure he doesn't love you, either. at least it doesn't look that way - he has a pretty situation: ADULT children and is financially okay. leaving is never easy but he made it 10000x more hard than it should be. very self - destructive.

 

to be honest - it's as if he wants to leave but isn't motivated enough to stay gone.

 

the thing with the financial blackmail is very odd to me - surely he could provide a new place to live for his kids with the money from selling the marital home...?

[Oran]

"i REALLY doubt he loves her;". I am prepared to believe that people can hurt those they love. Just because he has hurt her doesn't preclude him from loving her. We're all human and can make terrible mistakes.

 

"however... i'm pretty sure he doesn't love you, either.". See above.

 

"at least it doesn't look that way -". This is my telling of the story, from my perspective, with many details excluded, for many reasons. As such it is subjective.

 

"he has a pretty situation:". I don't believe that. We are 3 people who have become embroiled, each one with their own hurt, own part to play and take responsibility for.

 

"ADULT children and is financially okay." ...yes, but does he still love his wife and wish to seek reconciliation?

 

"leaving is never easy but he made it 10000x more hard than it should be.". True.

 

"very self - destructive.". Or confused. And confusing.

 

"to be honest - it's as if he wants to leave but isn't motivated enough to stay gone.". Erm, not sure what you're implying here.

 

"the thing with the financial blackmail is very odd to me - surely he could provide a new place to live for his kids with the money from selling the marital home...?". My greater concern is that this is a mask for his true feelings towards his wife.

[Lobe]

Hi Anika99

 

Thanks for your reply. I think it's more to do with timing. AP doesn't think that he should provide shelter for his adult children 'forever'. It's that this would be a particularly difficult time for both to find new places to stay. I think they key point is that this seems to be being used for leverage. Perhaps.

 

It's leverage, introduced by the BS to make her hubby come home, yet used by him to manipulate you... because you're at the bottom of the totem pole and sh*t rolls downhill.

 

By your own logic of parents don't stop parenting when children grow up, you're affirming my point that BW isn't going to leave her children on the side of the road with a cardboard box, a week's supply of Twinkies, and a tin cup to fend for themselves. If MM was so worried about his family's well-being, he wouldn't be trying to chase after another woman in front of his adult children.

[minimariah]

"i REALLY doubt he loves her;". I am prepared to believe that people can hurt those they love.

 

of course - but at SOME POINT -- it becomes too much. at some point, the hurt is an obvious sign that the love is gone... i feel like you either won't or can't recognize that point. i mean, he didn't just hurt his wife - he lied to her for a long time + dumped her; he was ready to live without her then left because she apparently blackmailed him; if she never showed up, he would have been with you - would you still think he loves her?

 

My greater concern is that this is a mask for his true feelings towards his wife.

 

i think that's interesting because that's probably the farthest thing from the truth. you should be concerned about his true feelings towards YOU, not the wife. he did a lot of ugly things to you and treated you poorly and you're giving him every excuse in the book.

[Oran]

It's leverage, introduced by the BS to make her hubby come home, yet used by him to manipulate you... because you're at the bottom of the totem pole and sh*t rolls downhill.

 

By your own logic of parents don't stop parenting when children grow up, you're affirming my point that BW isn't going to leave her children on the side of the road with a cardboard box, a week's supply of Twinkies, and a tin cup to fend for themselves. If MM was so worried about his family's well-being, he wouldn't be trying to chase after another woman in front of his adult children.

 

That's totally coherent, Lobe. He wants to return to his wife. He just can't say it. Just as he couldn't say to her that he believed he wanted to be with me.

[Satu]

Does he love you?

 

No, he doesn't, because he doesn't know what love is.

 

If he did, he wouldn't cause so much pain for the people around him.

 

He's a very dysfunctional person, a chaos generator.

 

QED.

 

 

 

Take care.

[Lobe]

That's totally coherent, Lobe. He wants to return to his wife. He just can't say it. Just as he couldn't say to her that he believed he wanted to be with me.

 

Hugs girl. You got it. He's a liar and a coward who has never been forced to pick. Until now. Take yourself off the board.

[jenkins95]

Hi oran (((big hug))) I'm sure you could use one!

 

Oh what a mess oran. He has run a train wreck through your life for three years. I think you know you have to stay NC now.... reclaim your life and don't let him interfere with you any more. I think he may well have had very strong feelings for you.... And his wife.... At various times, but in a very selfish way on his own terms, and he has caused you both immense pain. So I'm not sure if this would really qualify as "love" in the sense that most people understand it.

 

It's a shame things didn't work out with your colleague a while back. He sabotage that relationship very selfishly and cruelly - you see that don't you?

 

Please walk away now and put yourself first. If you let him he could to and fro between the two of you for years and ultimately destroy all of you. Don't let him.

 

Keep posting, we are here. Come to us instead of him oran.

 

I wish you all the best of luck, J

Edited June 8, 2016 by jenkins95

[Lobe]

I just figured out how you can use that damned settlement for leverage, too! You have to read this in a dramatic Madame Yes (Flintstones) voice, with a sad slow solitary violin playing in the background...

 

"Dear Stupid Goodlooking,

 

I'm so sorry that I have caused you so much pain and confusion. Please, don't blame yourself for me being completely irresistible; other people have found me irresistible too, but I've been so incredibly selfish - while you have cost me relationships and employment, I almost cost you your marriage.

 

Please know... I could never live with myself knowing I forced you and your wife to sell your home and stop caring for your children, putting them out on the street and leaving you with merely half your marital assets and a life with me.

 

Thank your wife for for giving me the opportunity to save your children's lives.

 

Sincerely, your XOW"