Looking for others perspectives.

[Oran]

Sorry, this is slightly off topic, but do you believe that unfaithful women still get a tougher ride than unfaithful men?

 

OK, things aren't THAT bad these days, but do you feel that men still get it easier and that affairs are more "expected" in men than women?

 

Jenkins95, wow, that's a huge question. I think it comes down to one huge cliche that society stills believes, 'women love, men f*ck'. To betray someone through the heart is deemed more hurtful than to betray them through lust. MW betraying their H is deemed worse than MM betraying their W.

[Oran]

I'm okay, actually. The best I've been in regards to the A. Less so about other stuff

 

On my own thread I update that there has been contact (yesterday, I had a bereavement. Not wonderful timing and very hard) from him but I'm back to NC today.

 

Still going

 

Immokk, really sorry to hear that you've had a bereavement, and I can understand how you want to reach out for support at a time like this.

[Lobe]

Jenkins95, wow, that's a huge question. I think it comes down to one huge cliche that society stills believes, 'women love, men f*ck'. To betray someone through the heart is deemed more hurtful than to betray them through lust. MW betraying their H is deemed worse than MM betraying their W.

 

Men and women cheat for the same reasons - emotional kibbles, even if that kibble is feeling sexy because someone is having sex with you...

 

Society says:

 

Men f*ck, women love.

Men have conquests, women are sluts.

Men need their freedom, women are running from responsibility.

 

Women know this double standard and how it impacts our lives, from very early on. But that is a WHOLE other thread LOL

[immokk]

Men and women cheat for the same reasons - emotional kibbles, even if that kibble is feeling sexy because someone is having sex with you...

 

Society says:

 

Men f*ck, women love.

Men have conquests, women are sluts.

Men need their freedom, women are running from responsibility.

 

Women know this double standard and how it impacts our lives, from very early on. But that is a WHOLE other thread LOL

 

 

Yeah, really... a whole other website..!

 

I'm pouring my efforts into supporting other women now, not hurting them. We NEED each other,

[Oran]

OK folks.

 

I am looking for some more disillusionment slaps.

 

When our A became physical, I played a blinder of a move which I balk to recall. But here it is. AP had told me nothing about his BS at this point in time, I knew she existed but that was that. He simply told me he was 'happily married'. Unable to compute why Mr Happily Married had pursued a physical relationship with me, and believing that he was a good person, I said 'I don't understand why someone like you, would be doing something like this, unless it had been done to you.'.

 

What a beauty. In one fell swoop I had proposed, a) if your spouse is unfaithful to you, it is OK for you to be unfaithful in return, and b) even although I KNOW you are unfaithful, I suspect your BS is unfaithful. Ugh! However. It turned out to be true, if I can believe what AP recounted to me, and face to face with BS, she told me as much herself.

 

From this I developed an image of my AP as the noble cuckold, faithful and true, despite the waywardness of his spouse.

 

6 months ago, I glanced images on APs phone, nude images. I asked him who she was. He didn't reply. Glossed over. Eventually through a torturous conversation he revealed that they were images of a girl he had met up with after I had gone NC when I ended the A and had started a R with my work colleague. They had one sexual encounter, it was 'horrific' because he wished that she was me.

 

Through his A with me, I could just maintain the delusion that he was noble cuckold. But this new information threatened my lala-fantasy. I asked if there was anything else, any previous As? To my astonishment, there was. One previous A which lasted a year with a MW. They both called it off, for the sake of their respective children.

 

It seems ridiculous to say that I am only putting this all together now. I was invested in being blind.

 

Thoughts?

[Lobe]

It seems ridiculous to say that I am only putting this all together now. I was invested in being blind.

 

Thoughts?

 

********FAIRY DUST FOR YOU!!!**********

 

But seriously tho...

 

Some days I think our MC is a putz but other days he gets the ball rolling and I don't feel as bitter paying him wads of cash. Plus, he has a really cute East Indian accent and brings us curry sometimes. But whatever.

 

Sitting there with WH a couple of months after d-day and the MC asks a question about what kinds of things we enjoy doing together? WH explains this long story about how we grew apart and have nothing in common anymore, we can't even agree where to take a vacation. As he elaborates, I sit there staring at him, slack-jawed, poking holes in his story with facts, until he realizes that what he had convinced himself of was not rooted in reality, in any way shape or form.

 

Turns out, him and the xOW had sat down and had a conversation about travel, something WH and I both enjoy but don't have the time or money to do as much as we would like (yet anyways). If you were to ask either of us our travel destination bucket list, we could put them in alphabetical order and spell them backwards. I love travelling but I get homesick after a couple of weeks if the kids aren't with us. There are places he wants to go that I am *meh* and places I want to go where he is *meh* but we often split up for a few hours - he'd go to the museums and I'd hit the market to haggle for weird souvenirs and we'd compare notes over supper. The only times we have managed to travel is on seat sales, but it was one of those things that when our relationship was still good, we would do - grab a bottle of wine and go on mapquest and talk about all the places we wanted to visit when the kids were out of the house.

 

The story xOW got was that I was a homebody and not very adventurous. I'm too attached to the kids to travel. I dislike travel and we couldn't agree on where to go much less what to do when we got there. And it wasn't HIM and ME being prudent with our finances because we have kids and bills - I was just too cheap. You've heard that phrase "rewriting marriage history?" Well, this is what it looks like to the AP partner, carefully chosen half-truths and omissions to maximize negatives against the BS and build the OM/OW up.

 

The outright lies have been easy to get past. "I'm going to yoga," was a lie. Disentangling the half-truths and omissions that he allowed to cloud his mind is a struggle. Every once in a while he still comes out with a statement like, "But you never," or "You always..." and I just cross my arms, take a deep breath, and stare at him until he rethinks it. His confusion is hard to watch - it's almost like he was brainwashed.

 

APs have to make carefully detailed stories to navigate the choppy waters of an affair and delusion is the only tool powerful enough to convince you there is no iceberg ahead.

[Oran]

APs have to make carefully detailed stories to navigate the choppy waters of an affair and delusion is the only tool powerful enough to convince you there is no iceberg ahead.

 

I knew that AP had a vested interest in convincing himself and myself of BS's character flaws and bad behavior. And I didn't believe she was a bad person. At the time the supposed infidelity took place there were extremely difficult circumstances happening. What was it you said in an earlier post? Perfect storm.

 

What I have blocked, when there have been neon dancing flamingos prancing around to highlight it, is that infidelity is a pattern for him. I have just been one element of it.

 

In my mind, if he had only ever been unfaithful with me, then he was the noble cuckold. Our delusion held true. Even when faced with the new information, I couldn't absorb it, couldn't process it. This was information which suggested a pattern of infidelity, a pattern of troubled behavior, and behavior I was complicit in. Rather than see that, acknowledge it, acknowledge my troubling role in it, I clung to the star crossed lovers script.

[Oran]

“I am a lover of what is, not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality.”

 

Time to get this tattoo-ed on myself.

[Lobe]

What I have blocked, when there have been neon dancing flamingos prancing around to highlight it...

 

oh, you are a brilliant and fun read.

[Oran]

So, being on my own now, having NC, I'm mulling over a lot of things.

 

As I said previously, I felt that my AP and I shared a deep connection and empathy. Now I know there might be a few reactions of *meh* and *pfft* to that. But, I don't think I was deluded on this one and I've been trying to map out in my head what that bond was.

 

Neither of my parents were alcoholic, in fact both barely touched a drop. I am not a drinker. But at a certain point, I realized that a good number of my friends had been parented by someone who had an issue with drink. Other friends had a parent coping with mental health issues. I could relate to literature written about adult children of alcoholic parents, but I was confused by it because neither of my parents really drank.

 

In a conversation with my AP in the last year I remember admitting to him that I thought I was emotionally immature. This in itself was difficult as I have spent a large part of my adult life trying to understand my family of origin, looking for labels for them. I've read about aspergers, narcissim, the whole kaboodle, trying to work out if that framework fits them, even trying to work out if that framework fits me.

 

It has not been easy to admit to, because in many respects I realise that I'm smart, but there is a fundamental 'stuckness' at the core of me. Self acceptance, abandonment and rejection have been key issues for me all my life. I know these issues are not simply in my head as my father in the last few months of his life apologized to me for having abandoned me. My parents were married until my father died, he never left us; his was an emotional abandonment. I hold out for no self-realization from my mother.

 

I think basically there has been a key journey of emotional development that did not happen for me as a child. And I think this is also true for my AP. We both became overly responsible children (little adults) because of family circumstances, but the emotional development did not happen.

 

This last weekend when my AP and I were talking about his return to his BS for reconciliation and my NC, I said to him that I thought he had become stuck somehow. He has not developed the emotional tools and processes to work through difficult problems. Perhaps this is why difficulties in his M mounted up and were not dealt with. It is not faux empathy to say that he has had to deal with terrible circumstances in his life - this is not a ploy by me to maintain his idealized role in my eyes, it is simply true.

 

We have similar wounds and scars. In our initial e-mail correspondence my AP recognized this, and I think that was something he responded strongly to. *I know, I know, I can hear some people thinking STILL DELUSIONAL, INTERNALIZING THE - MY WIFE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ME - LINE*. I know that neither of us needed to turn that connection into an A, I know that in recognizing the possibility of understanding one another and ourselves, neither of us needed to set his BS on a bonfire and set fire to her. But we did.

 

For me this is a process of making complex again something that AP and I decided to horrifically simplify. What could have/should have been a recognition of a person on a similar journey became something else. We thought we were going to save one another. Instead we hurt people. Ourselves included.

 

This is where I am at the moment. I understand that some may think this is just a re-worked version of the 'star crossed lovers' script, or a new 'I was only f*cking him as a kind of therapy for us both' script.

 

But I think that as two people who have experienced a kind of emotional neglect in early years, I understand that initial empathy and connection that became a weakness. Certainly on my part.

[OneLov]

OP,

 

You seem to be at the stage where you are trying to find meaning in the relationship in hopes to achieve a sense of closure. Because the relationship was riddled with ambiguity, you are now trying to find meaning for the present by looking into the past.

 

The truth is you DID share a connection and those feelings did/do exist. But that connection resulted in a socially inappropriate relationship. Because of his unwillingness to make the relationship legitimate, it had to end. Not because of YOU, it ended because of HIS (in)action(s). Fear is a much stronger emotion than love.

 

IMO, the key to healing in this situation is being able to hold two opposing ideas as truths--"it" was, but "it" wasn't. The feelings were very real and legitimate but the relationship was not. But one truth does not invalid the other; they can both exist. I would work with a therapist that can help you with the process. Also, I would develop a support system and allow adequate time to grieve.

 

We've all been there in one way or another. It's ok to feel loss, and I for one will verify that what you have experienced is a loss. Do not feel ashamed or invalidated. Keep posting and try to not get boggled down in finding "meaning." I wish you the best.

 

OL

[Oran]

OneLov

 

Thank you for your post, I found it really helpful. Thank you for taking the time to respond to me.

[AlwaysGrowing]

So, being on my own now, having NC, I'm mulling over a lot of things.

 

As I said previously, I felt that my AP and I shared a deep connection and empathy. Now I know there might be a few reactions of *meh* and *pfft* to that. But, I don't think I was deluded on this one and I've been trying to map out in my head what that bond was.

 

Neither of my parents were alcoholic, in fact both barely touched a drop. I am not a drinker. But at a certain point, I realized that a good number of my friends had been parented by someone who had an issue with drink. Other friends had a parent coping with mental health issues. I could relate to literature written about adult children of alcoholic parents, but I was confused by it because neither of my parents really drank.

 

In a conversation with my AP in the last year I remember admitting to him that I thought I was emotionally immature. This in itself was difficult as I have spent a large part of my adult life trying to understand my family of origin, looking for labels for them. I've read about aspergers, narcissim, the whole kaboodle, trying to work out if that framework fits them, even trying to work out if that framework fits me.

 

It has not been easy to admit to, because in many respects I realise that I'm smart, but there is a fundamental 'stuckness' at the core of me. Self acceptance, abandonment and rejection have been key issues for me all my life. I know these issues are not simply in my head as my father in the last few months of his life apologized to me for having abandoned me. My parents were married until my father died, he never left us; his was an emotional abandonment. I hold out for no self-realization from my mother.

 

I think basically there has been a key journey of emotional development that did not happen for me as a child. And I think this is also true for my AP. We both became overly responsible children (little adults) because of family circumstances, but the emotional development did not happen.

 

This last weekend when my AP and I were talking about his return to his BS for reconciliation and my NC, I said to him that I thought he had become stuck somehow. He has not developed the emotional tools and processes to work through difficult problems. Perhaps this is why difficulties in his M mounted up and were not dealt with. It is not faux empathy to say that he has had to deal with terrible circumstances in his life - this is not a ploy by me to maintain his idealized role in my eyes, it is simply true.

 

We have similar wounds and scars. In our initial e-mail correspondence my AP recognized this, and I think that was something he responded strongly to. *I know, I know, I can hear some people thinking STILL DELUSIONAL, INTERNALIZING THE - MY WIFE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND ME - LINE*. I know that neither of us needed to turn that connection into an A, I know that in recognizing the possibility of understanding one another and ourselves, neither of us needed to set his BS on a bonfire and set fire to her. But we did.

 

For me this is a process of making complex again something that AP and I decided to horrifically simplify. What could have/should have been a recognition of a person on a similar journey became something else. We thought we were going to save one another. Instead we hurt people. Ourselves included.

 

This is where I am at the moment. I understand that some may think this is just a re-worked version of the 'star crossed lovers' script, or a new 'I was only f*cking him as a kind of therapy for us both' script.

 

But I think that as two people who have experienced a kind of emotional neglect in early years, I understand that initial empathy and connection that became a weakness. Certainly on my part.

 

 

This digging deep is really, really, good. Now for the except part....except for you trying to dig deep into the "whys" of how the XMM worked internally.

 

This is where IC can assist you so very much. Not only can they challenge your perceptions of self/how you are/think/others perceptions of you, they can also help with arming you with new tools, how to repair childhood holes...etc.

 

I really do think it is awesome that you are challenging your own motivation on having an affair...I really do. Not many have the internal strength to challenge themselves...they instead point the finger at the other guy, for "why" they can't move on or are stuck. Kudos.

 

Enjoy the journey to knowing you.

[Lobe]

I know that neither of us needed to turn that connection into an A, I know that in recognizing the possibility of understanding one another and ourselves, neither of us needed to set his BS on a bonfire and set fire to her. But we did.

 

For me this is a process of making complex again something that AP and I decided to horrifically simplify.

 

This is where I am at the moment. I understand that some may think this is just a re-worked version of the 'star crossed lovers' script, or a new 'I was only f*cking him as a kind of therapy for us both' script.

 

But I think that as two people who have experienced a kind of emotional neglect in early years, I understand that initial empathy and connection that became a weakness. Certainly on my part.

 

I think we place way too much emphasis on FOO stories. They define the experiences you had but do not dictate the person you will become. I know this because if our FOO determined who we would be as adults my first husband would be a priest, my WH would be a Dr. without borders, and I'd be a homeless crack addict. To a large degree, notwithstanding medical conditions including mental illness, we do in fact get to choose how our FOO shapes us, whether we accept our fate to repeat their mistakes so we can blame our parents, or elevate ourselves in the hopes of breaking the cycle. Unfortunately, we hear more about the crack heads and alcoholic housewives who grew up being sexually abused than we do about the ones who live normal and boring lives.

 

I don't doubt that APs share a genuine connection, but it is in my never humble opinion incomplete and flawed, because it is so narrow in scope. As you've said, what might start off with "Oh, you had a single mom too?" ends up with the demonizing of the BS, "My spouse's mom stayed at home and that's why we never really understood each other and connected like you and me do - it's fate." ~insert fluttering eyelashes here~ Never mind that in the same twitterpated way WW/WH and the BS discovered they both skipped a grade in elementary, love tiger tail ice cream, and can't stand the Beatles while they were dating, or that they've spent 10 years having babies, mourning deaths, and building a home. Suddenly that's disposable because, "Well, it would never have worked out because s/he just doesn't know what it's like to grow up in a single parent family..."? WAY oversimplified, but again, a necessary part of the delusion required to maintain an affair.

 

If we think about meeting new people we really "click" with in the moment, that do not turn into sexual relations, we have this same kind of "simple connection" thing going on. We might click with people we meet in a class or from our knitting or gun club, but we generally don't stray from or expand that single, narrow connection. We will really enjoy their company during class, but they're unlikely to be invited for a weekend getaway with the people you asked to be in your wedding party. Obviously there are exceptions to the norm - I've seen some really nasty BFF break-ups because of jealousy, too - but I think when you put it in the context of your platonic BFFs, you would be hard-pressed to think that you would ever meet a new BFF at work or the gym who could usurp those persons in our lives who know us better than we know ourselves. The main difference of course being that if your BFF gets jealous and dumps you because you're going for lunch with someone new and interesting, it's not likely to involve the courts.

 

Also, I think it's important to acknowledge the difference between the sidepiece and the genuine exit affair, which are two broad categories I think capture all the different sub-types. Lots of APs want to believe their A is of the latter type and they just happened to come along at the right time, but the vast majority (including "therapeutic" affairs) are in fact variations on a sidepiece, especially those who weren't planning to leave their spouse before the shiny new plaything showed up, which I think would be the biggest red flag of all.

 

I think you're doing some really really good work coming to terms with how you contributed to this situation developing, and on some level it almost sounds like taking back that ownership is empowering. That strength is exactly what you're going to need to tap into for those days ahead when staying NC feels as impossible as shotputting a boulder.

 

I'm high-fiving you, Oran. I hope you begin finding the peace you need.

Edited June 12, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
language~T

[heartwhole]

You've talked a lot about the empathy you and MM shared, but I am questioning his capacity for true empathy. It's one thing to feel a connection and feel sympathy for someone, but if ones acts in ways that are likely to cause harm to those one supposedly cares for, then I think a key ingredient to empathy is missing. A serial adulterer clearly lacks concern for the inevitable impact of his actions on his wife and the women he allows to be his side-piece. I guess some would argue that they are simply being blind to reality and hiding their head in the sand to the consequences of their actions, but I don't believe "I didn't mean to hurt you" is an excuse when one made choices that any reasonable person would expect to end in that manner.

 

I definitely think there was some damsel in distress/savior complex going on with my husband's affair. This is not our dynamic. I am pretty independent with a steady self-esteem. Yet when I have needed his empathy and help after developing a chronic illness while pregnant with our last child, he has struggled mightily. In MC we learned that he is low on empathy and has a tendency to be self-absorbed. I am sure that OW was clueless about this point, that she thought that he was this downtrodden martyr to a sick wife whose poor needs were never met, and that the relatively short time he spent being a sympathetic ear to her was proof that he'd be good on this point around the clock.

 

All I can say is to keep processing and keep working on yourself. Your MM clearly has a lot of issues to sort out, and surely the rational part of you knows he is no prize in his current state even if he were to show up tomorrow having chosen you for good.

 

I said to him that I thought he had become stuck somehow. He has not developed the emotional tools and processes to work through difficult problems. Perhaps this is why difficulties in his M mounted up and were not dealt with.

 

It takes a long time to develop these tools. It's been 14 months since DD and it took half that time for my husband to get to a point where he could see himself and what he needed to work on clearly. He's had to develop the skills to handle stress without falling apart in a fit of self-pity and seeking an escape. He's had to learn how to react with concern and action when I fall ill, rather than glowering and acting like if he just ignores me, it will go away. He's completely reworked his priorities to put me and the kids first -- no more "business meetings" that constantly fall during happy hour, no more guys' trips, etc. I read that MM usually think they aren't getting enough at home, when the truth is they aren't giving enough. Pre-affair and during-affair WH had much more latitude and privacy and free time than he does now, but he's grown up a lot and realizes how much he took for himself to our detriment.

 

Anyway, I could ramble on and on here. My point is simply that most MM are having affairs precisely because they are lacking in the coping skills and judgment to make better choices. So when it all comes to a head, he is not much of a prize to either the BW or the OW, if they take the time to see him clearly. Likewise, you went down the same path and made the same choices, so it's time for you to cocoon yourself in some self-care and to look hard in the mirror. I do believe that when you are a healthy person who makes good choices, things tend to fall into place in your life. You attract that same kind of energy in your relationships. When you become confused about who you are and what kind of person you want to be, you start making allowances for behavior that you know is destructive and wrong, and all it does is lead to a vicious cycle. You've stopped the cycle. That's step one. Now keep moving forward toward healing and growth.

[Sabella]

 

Anyway, I could ramble on and on here. My point is simply that most MM are having affairs precisely because they are lacking in the coping skills and judgment to make better choices. So when it all comes to a head, he is not much of a prize to either the BW or the OW, if they take the time to see him clearly. Likewise, you went down the same path and made the same choices, so it's time for you to cocoon yourself in some self-care and to look hard in the mirror. I do believe that when you are a healthy person who makes good choices, things tend to fall into place in your life. You attract that same kind of energy in your relationships. When you become confused about who you are and what kind of person you want to be, you start making allowances for behavior that you know is destructive and wrong, and all it does is lead to a vicious cycle. You've stopped the cycle. That's step one. Now keep moving forward toward healing and growth.

 

Just wow! Succinctly written and so on point. I would only add that the AP (myself included ofc) are lacking the coping skills too and certainly share that blame.

 

I just love what you wrote about the energy of relationships and what you attract. I find that to be a huge insight. I keep worrying that I'm just hopelessly broken in some aspect, unable to love and be loved again. But that thought pattern and diving into that rabbit hole will get me no where. At least nowhere I really want to be.

 

I think introspection is important and needed. But you can't really extend that to the affair partner, you are just spinning your wheels at that point. Better to focus on your own lessons and growth. Best wishes

[Oran]

Thank you to everyone who has responded here. There is so much to think about in what you have contributed.

[Lobe]

I read that MM usually think they aren't getting enough at home, when the truth is they aren't giving enough.

 

Whoa. WHOA. This is powerful. SO powerful.

 

I knew there was a direct correlation between the state of the marriage declining in relationship to the amount of energy taken away from it to sustain the affair, but I didn't consider it in terms of what may have been happening leading up to the A.

 

In the time leading up to my WH straying he had become completely self-absorbed in his soul-searching. I felt completely abandoned. Never in our marriage had I ever felt so disconnected from him. When I was going through my weight gain/weight loss, while I had rejected sex, I had not rejected physical contact, communication, working or planning on things for us to do together. Once he went off to yogi-vegan-"I'm a Leo" land, he completely withdrew. No more food prep together (I wasn't about to make 2 different meals since the kids weren't vegan), I was going to the gym and he was going to yoga, I was reading books about esteem building and he was learning about cardinal signs and cusps... It didn't matter how much I tried to talk to him or find a way to connect, he seemed to be so focussed on himself there was no room for me. And I not only let him take that space, thinking it would give me space to deal with my own issues, but encouraged him! Obviously that worked out well for us, hey? Good grief.

 

Thank you for this insight. It's one more piece of the puzzle. I'll stop hijacking Oran's thread now...

Edited June 10, 2016 by Lobe
grammar

[Oran]

No more food prep together (I wasn't about to make 2 different meals since the kids weren't vegan)...

 

Hijack all you want, it's taken my mind of things - trying to imagine you married to a vegan.

 

But in all seriousness, all of these insights are so useful no matter which side of the equation they came from. One of my APs adages was 'this is time for me now'.

 

I met BS just last week, face to face, in person, and as she blasted WH, you could have knocked me over with a feather; she was saying almost word for word the very things I was saying to him. 'As long as you are happy WH, f*ck everyone else around you.'. Couldn't have put it better myself.

[Oran]

I think we place way too much emphasis on FOO stories. They define the experiences you had but do not dictate the person you will become. I know this because if our FOO determined who we would be as adults my first husband would be a priest, my WH would be a Dr. without borders, and I'd be a homeless crack whore. To a large degree, notwithstanding medical conditions including mental illness, we do in fact get to choose how our FOO shapes us, whether we accept our fate to repeat their mistakes so we can blame our parents, or elevate ourselves in the hopes of breaking the cycle. Unfortunately, we hear more about the crack whores and alcoholic housewives who grew up being sexually abused than we do about the ones who live normal and boring lives.

 

Totally. I'm not interested in FoO stories as a license to gain lifetime membership of an exclusive pity party. Or as a way of excluding those who have had a great upbringing - 'Ain't got your ticket? Then you ain't getting in. The Brotherhood is just for the brothers.'. And to understand FoO is not a license to simply accept damaged and damaging behavior.

 

But. I do think understanding FoO is the springboard for the possibility of change. Understanding is simply the first part. The awareness that understanding brings then allows for the possibility to challenge and change behaviors.

 

A problem, certainly in the culture that I belong to, is that we are not open about what happens in families. There is that great quote by Soren Kierkegaard "Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.". We only develop understanding after the fact. And with issues related to childhood, it's a bit like the French word for sickness, maladie, which really means 'difficult to say'. It can take a long time to actually express what happened to us in our FoO.

[Lobe]

The awareness that understanding brings then allows for the possibility to challenge and change behaviors.

 

"Life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.". We only develop understanding after the fact.

 

I have always loved that quote.

 

Introspection is the place growth comes from.

 

"Why is this pattern/habit/idea a part of my psyche?"

"Why do I believe/refuse it?"

"What stories/excuses do I use as a result?"

"Do I want this to influence or merely illustrate my experience?"

 

Funny enough, losing 100lbs involved way less dieting than it did therapy. LMAO

[Lobe]

And I was totally OK being married to a vegan. He just had to cook his own damned meals.

[Oran]

The truth is you DID share a connection and those feelings did/do exist. But that connection resulted in a socially inappropriate relationship. Because of his unwillingness to make the relationship legitimate, it had to end. Not because of YOU, it ended because of HIS (in)action(s). Fear is a much stronger emotion than love.

 

IMO, the key to healing in this situation is being able to hold two opposing ideas as truths--"it" was, but "it" wasn't. The feelings were very real and legitimate but the relationship was not. But one truth does not invalid the other; they can both exist.

 

I found this post actually really calming. It settled a lot of to-ing and fro-ing in my thoughts; namely, did he really love me or BS? I know that question has triggered a lot of responses such as, he couldn't possibly love either of you, to, he probably loved both of you.

 

While it has been useful to shed some of the delusions that I have been clinging onto, I can't let go of the feeling that he did genuinely love me, otherwise why would it have come to the stage that he 'almost' left his BS. I have been wracked with guilt from the very beginning, if he had said 'this is wrong, it was just a fling, it has to stop', I'd have been gone. I have held out for him to make the A legitimate, but he hasn't been decisive, brave or respectful enough to do that.

 

In relation to the A, that's nailed it for me. Thank you OneLov for the clarity this gives me.

[Oran]

This digging deep is really, really, good. Now for the except part....except for you trying to dig deep into the "whys" of how the XMM worked internally.

 

AlwaysGrowing, thanks for this. YES. I agree. One of the symptoms of an A is making the BS the baddie, then the AP becomes the victim of the M. It's not my job to fix him.

 

I read a quote by Byron Katie the other day, 'It's not your job to like me - it's my job'. That really resonated for me personally. And it also resonates with your post, 'It's not my job to fix him - it's his job'.

[Oran]

I read that MM usually think they aren't getting enough at home, when the truth is they aren't giving enough.

 

heartwhole, my AP would talk about his M and how his BS had a social life which revolved around bars and clubs, which wasn't his scene.

 

During the 4 months that I was living with him, he was doing his 'dream job' and we would have evenings together and one free day together during the week. Very quickly the evenings would be taken up with catching up with a work related friend, or working additional hours. I began to see exactly why BS had eventually developed what came to be a very active social life of her own, through loneliness. It was unsettling to see the behavior in AP which had contributed to BSs behavior in the M.

 

All during the A, the story of Bluebeard was in my mind - everything is ok, as long as you don't look in the locked room, as soon as you look in the locked room, you become what is in the locked room. Does that make sense?