Looking for others perspectives.

[Oran]

Oh Oran I have the same repeated, BLOCK CAPITAL, exclamation point!!!!!!!! Experiences!! It drives you nutz doesn't it?

 

Yep! I had life saving surgery, so stressful for HIM! My spine had started to collapse leaving me in 24/7 pain. Do you know how hard that was FOR HIM?? All of that with a little one at school & a preschooler toddling around. Can you imagine the stress of watching them while your sick wife lays in bed for a couple of hours at the weekend to catch-up on sleep? Ugh!!

 

I'm just venting & having a rant. He is trying hard now. He was very stressed & 'lost the plot' for a while back there. I just with people would place blame where it's deserved.

 

Have you read-up on cognitive dissonance? Interesting!

 

 

Off subject - Interesting fact....

 

Many years ago I toured a maximum security criminal hospital for work. (The kind of place they have serial killers, Yorkshire Ripper etc). I was allowed to visit (with protection) all of the different security levels of the women's hospital but only the lower security male sections.

 

I questioned this & the doctors said its because 'generally' women punish & hurt themselves, men turn the rage at others. In the hospital for the criminally insane the men posed a far greater risk to staff & visitors.

 

Obviously that's no strict rule & there are many exceptions but it was general enough to set the 'rules' in the hospital.

 

I've spent my life working on it but I'm a natural people pleaser to a fault. My instinct is to take all the blame myself & excuse others with often convoluted reasoning.

 

I often wonder how many OW & reconciling BS's are the same?

 

 

'Have you read-up on cognitive dissonance? Interesting!'. YES! I read the brilliantly titled 'A Big Boy Did It Then Ran Away', a few years ago, have you read it? It's something that I've been thinking a lot about recently. There is an example in the book of a cult in the states that claimed that the world was going to end on a specific date, cult members were giving money and giving up their possessions to the cult in preparation for Armageddon. When that date came and went and hey ho, everyone woke up the day after Armageddon, just as usual, the cult enjoyed RENEWED following and FURTHER donations from their members. This story keeps coming to mind when I think, why didn't I stop this sooner. The cult reworked its story - you, brave cult members have managed to 'delay' Armageddon, this is a sign that your devotion is working....', and on they trundled in their madness with renewed vigor. At the time I read it I thought they were all f*cking nuts. But I've done just the same thing, continued to commit deeper because I've invested so much, reworking the justification when need be.

 

'... 'generally' women punish & hurt themselves, men turn the rage at others.'. I think there is a lot of truth in this, I think it's more socially acceptable for women to hurt themselves, and men to hurt others, if that makes sense. A violent, aggressive woman is seen as monstrous. A self harming man is seen as un-masculine.

 

Re empathy, it is good that your H is recognizing and able to work on difficulties he has. In my experience I felt quite lonely and invalidated by my exSO's lack of empathy. In some respects, if he had an all-round lack of empathy, that would have been easier to take, but the kicker was, he had a good deal of care for his own emotions and experiences.

[Oran]

I'm glad you got to have that insight into how a real future with him would have gone. I have read so many OW posts wondering why the cruel, distant, controlling BW won't just set the sainted MM free to be with her. I think if they got a chance to have a day to day relationship with the MM, in most cases, they would realize the qualities that made him be OK with having an affair carry over into the rest of his life too . . . selfishness, short-sightedness, poor boundaries, poor coping skills, poor judgment, etc. And meanwhile, the BW has been putting up with all of this in good faith. It's not a fair. I have made sure to reject that dynamic and expect real growth if my husband wants the honor of staying married to me. I never felt like I wasn't the one with the choice here. And in truth, it so often is the BW who really has the choice. OW can't understand why MM won't leave such supposedly unpalatable situations. I think you are right to suspect that it's not as unpalatable as he lets you believe. Otherwise, he'd take his freedom and ride off into the sunset with you.

Bang on the money, heartwhole. I think what is becoming apparent for me is that whatever the outcome of the A had been, the very thing that is needed is growth.

[Oran]

So, I have been very lucky to have spent the weekend with a dear friend who came to see me, picked me up and put me on my feet and took me out into nature. I shared some of my woes, and they shared theirs. Having been in the countryside, I feel more motivated, and inspired. I've been to beautiful, serene places.

 

Cut to 3am this morning. All the fresh air had made me sleepy, so I happily trotted off to bed early, feeling physically tired instead of emotionally drained for the first time in ages. I woke at 3am from a dream. I was looking for MM, he was in a building that was like a cinema or a conference centre and he was all dressed up, suited and booted. I eventually saw him through the crowd, I reach him and say 'we have to talk'. I ask him what he is doing and he tells me, with a look upon his face that I read as reluctance, that he is going to reconcile with his wife. I feel the blood drain from me, and my whole body feels metallic cold. I ask him to follow me to somewhere more private so that we can talk. He agrees, reluctantly. The foyer is busy so I keep glancing around to ensure that he is following me. And then, he is gone. I am looking around frantically for him, and slowly panic turns to anger, turns to rage, and I am spitting nasty thoughts into my head, 'I will destroy him, the coward', 'I'll send all our e-mails to his wife'. And then, I woke up. I couldn't return to sleep.

 

*gulp*. Firstly, I have no such intention of sending anything to his BS. But clearly there is a lot going on for me besides the overriding feeling of being calm having gone NC. This morning his face kept echoing through my imagination. In the dream, when he tells me he is reconciling with his wife, I read his expression as reluctance. It was the actual expression that he wore when he told me this in reality. But, I don't think it was reluctance. I think it was fear.

 

I am in a situation where I have been trying to see things from all perspectives. I accept the right of his BSs anger, I faced some of it when I met her face to face. I accept that to bond with his BS, exAP might demonize me. I feel guilty, and feel as though I've done a terrible thing, and I have no right to anger. But underneath all the 'thinky' machinations, underneath all of that, I am angry.

 

At one stage during the A, when trying to get to what my AP actually wanted, trying to understand what he was doing, I said to him, "I don't want to read some headline on a women's magazine, 'my husbands affair saved our marriage'". I didn't, I don't want to be fodder that is picked over in MC. I don't want my background, my history, my personality to be picked over and pathologized in my role as the OW.

 

In our final conversations I spoke to AP about feeling as though he has dangled me over a cliff in the last 3 years. I feel as though he has endangered me through his indecision. (I've told him this right from the beginning and he has aggressively rejected all my concerns). It was inevitable that his BS would come to where he was living sooner or later to see if I was there. How would she know otherwise what her potential future might be. I said to him I felt as though I was standing next to him, and I was terrified because I could see a monster coming towards me and I was begging him to protect me, but he couldn't even see the monster.

 

I realise that much of what I am saying is 'rich'. I don't want to be picked over, analysed, examined by exAP and BS, while I have spent the last 3 years in the most intimate space that they share, their marriage. While I accuse my AP of not protecting me, the truth is, I have not protected myself.

[elaine567]

In the dream, when he tells me he is reconciling with his wife, I read his expression as reluctance. It was the actual expression that he wore when he told me this in reality. But, I don't think it was reluctance. I think it was fear.

 

Fear of what?

[Oran]

Fear of what?

 

Fear of my reaction, maybe. I don't mean that I'm a hair-trigger maniac that was likely to beat him to a pulp when I realized that he did not want me. Fear of himself, realizing who he is? He reconciled when the financial assets were due to be split. He doesn't love me enough to take the financial hit. He loves his financial assets enough to reconcile with a BS who he claims to love, but is not in love with. *I am well aware that he has simply woken up to the fact that he wants his wife and his marriage*. Fear of what he has done, and fear of being seen to have done it. I left a job and social circle to move in with him.

[Oran]

After a weekend of feeling better, stronger, calmer, I received an e-mail from BS.

 

WH tells me he wants the chance of a reconciliation with me. He has also told me he's asked you to leave, and he's now living alone.

This marriage has had 3 people in it for too long now, and it's not just WH's actions that have fuelled this cheating and lying and misery..it's also your selfish behaviour..

I am angry, and telling you this, just once...

STAY THE F*CK AWAY FROM WH..FROM ME..AND MY FAMILY..

 

 

I had no intention of going anywhere near exAP, BS or family. And I had been happily NC. exAP hadn't asked me to leave. I chose to leave. exAP didn't request NC, I said that this was what I wanted and he tried to dissuade me against it.

 

 

 

In our final conversations I told exAP that if he was going to reconcile, he should give it 110%, and that he should tell his BS everything. I am not the first extra-marital affair or sh*g that he has had, and worryingly all 3 that I am aware of, the women have been in vulnerable situations, leaving abusive partners or in my case, isolated and grieving. I have no intention of contacting his BS.

 

 

My question is this -

 

 

 

Do I just ignore the e-mail.

 

 

Or do I forward the e-mail to exAP and cc BS into it, so that she realizes that she is simply communicating with him when she tries to e-mail me?

 

 

I have no intention of communicating further with either exAP or BS, but wonder is creating this circular forwarding of emails will make her stop.

[elaine567]

Fear of my reaction, maybe. I don't mean that I'm a hair-trigger maniac that was likely to beat him to a pulp when I realized that he did not want me. .

 

No, I never thought that. LOL!

[OneLov]

I'd ignore it.

 

It's conflict you do not need right now; you have enough internally.

 

Besides, responding would only confirm her perception that you're the one who needs to stay away because you're the one who is pulling his strings.

[Lady Hamilton]

I wouldn't forward it to him, but I'd maybe consider replying to her and CCing him what actually happened... Not because she'll believe it mind you, but because he gets the message you're willing to roll over on him if he keeps looping you back in and that you're serious about NC.

[elaine567]

I had no intention of going anywhere near exAP, BS or family. And I had been happily NC. exAP hadn't asked me to leave. I chose to leave. exAP didn't request NC, I said that this was what I wanted and he tried to dissuade me against it.

Personally that would fire me up to put her right on a few of those points, because who gives him the right to get away with lying even more to his wife, and why would I have to take all the blame, and have his wife think even less of me, but I get your position here and maybe it is the right thing to just let it go... I don't really know.

[rumblefish12]

Oran: I think you leave that right where it is with no response. This is now about you and your future. If you take the high road, you can feel good about it. Every time there is an additional communication, it adds fuel to the fire. You know the truth. This is a great opportunity to demonstrate that you are turning a corner and leaving WH and BS in your past.

[Lobe]

I wouldn't forward it to him, but I'd maybe consider replying to her and CCing him what actually happened... Not because she'll believe it mind you, but because he gets the message you're willing to roll over on him if he keeps looping you back in and that you're serious about NC.

 

Yup. Oran, I would send a reply to BS cc'd to xMM.

 

Dear BS,

 

Please know that I have no intention of allowing your husband back into my life. I apologize for being the reason he deceived you, but you actually need to sort the "truth" out with him as I've been a victim of his lies for as long as you have.

 

I am moving on and no longer wish to have any contact with your husband, and I have asked him to honour that going forward. Rest assured, any attempts on his behalf to rope me back in will be forwarded to you at this address. I hope you are able to heal your marriage and yourself.

 

I suggest this book for you both, available for free download here:

 

[How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful by Linda J. MacDonald]

Again, my sincerest apologies for any part I had in causing you pain.

Edited June 13, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
replaced link with plain text ~6

[OneLov]

I say ignore because actions speak louder than words. When WH is throwing you under the bus and blaming your seductive and controlling ways for engtangling him in this mess, your best defense is demonstrating that you can wash your hands of him as fast as he can. By responding, he'll say, "See, I told you it was all her; she can't leave me alone. Gawd!"

[Lady Hamilton]

Or you could go the Lady Hamilton route and reply by emailing him with the nastiest, most polite passive aggressive email in the history of the world and CC her...

 

"MM-

 

Please, I asked for NC and I really need that respected. This is now the 3rd time I've ended this affair and asked to not be contacted. I will not allow this to escalate as it did the last time, where you intruded into my life to attempt to sabotage my job and chase off the man I was in a relationship with.

 

I really need you to get this is over. I want you to finally get that, when I broke up with you, I needed my life back and it wasn't an invitation for you to try and break the boundaries I had set between us.

 

Whatever version of events you told others is very clearly different from what actually happened and I won't be a party to that deceit anymore.

 

It is over. Respect my wishes. I made clear before, I don't want to talk to you or about our relationship anymore.

 

Thanks,

 

OP"

[Lobe]

Or you could go the Lady Hamilton route and reply by emailing him with the nastiest, most polite passive aggressive email in the history of the world and CC her...

 

"MM-

 

Please, I asked for NC and I really need that respected. This is now the 3rd time I've ended this affair and asked to not be contacted. I will not allow this to escalate as it did the last time, where you intruded into my life to attempt to sabotage my job and chase off the man I was in a relationship with.

 

I really need you to get this is over. I want you to finally get that, when I broke up with you, I needed my life back and it wasn't an invitation for you to try and break the boundaries I had set between us.

 

Whatever version of events you told others is very clearly different from what actually happened and I won't be a party to that deceit anymore.

 

It is over. Respect my wishes. I made clear before, I don't want to talk to you or about our relationship anymore.

 

Thanks,

 

OP"

 

I vote both versions, actually. :D:D

[Oran]

I say ignore because actions speak louder than words. When WH is throwing you under the bus and blaming your seductive and controlling ways for engtangling him in this mess, your best defense is demonstrating that you can wash your hands of him as fast as he can. By responding, he'll say, "See, I told you it was all her; she can't leave me alone. Gawd!"

OneLove, that is the very phrase that my friend used about my exAP, 'he's thrown you under the bus', and responded further, 'they're (exAP and BS) now working together, you musn't respond'.

 

In my final conversations with exAP, I had said to him that I was sad as I realized that during the reconciliation process his BS would want to hear him say that I was a bad person, that I was nothing, she would want to hear him denigrate me, to even hate me so that they had a common bond. He was emotional saying that he would never do that.

 

...cut to one week later, he's thrown me under the bus. How naive am I?

[Oran]

I wouldn't forward it to him, but I'd maybe consider replying to her and CCing him what actually happened... Not because she'll believe it mind you, but because he gets the message you're willing to roll over on him if he keeps looping you back in and that you're serious about NC.

exAP is not the kind of man you even suggest that you might challenge in any kind of confrontational way. During the time I've known him there have been numerous conflicts in his personal life and he has always adopted a scorched earth policy while maintaining his own position as deeply hurt and sensitive. A bad brew.

[Lobe]

How naive am I?

 

Were. How naive were you.

 

I wouldn't let him throw me under the bus. BS deserves to know the truth and WS deserves to be called out on his lies, in front of her, so he doesn't get to keep lying to her. As the BS, I wish the honesty had been from the start. Trickle truth was absolute hell.

[Lobe]

Mind you, your xAP has a violent streak - probably best to let her have him, lies and all, and just wash your hands.

[Oran]

Yup. Oran, I would send a reply to BS cc'd to xMM.

 

Dear BS,

 

Please know that I have no intention of allowing your husband back into my life. I apologize for being the reason he deceived you, but you actually need to sort the "truth" out with him as I've been a victim of his lies for as long as you have.

 

I am moving on and no longer wish to have any contact with your husband, and I have asked him to honour that going forward. Rest assured, any attempts on his behalf to rope me back in will be forwarded to you at this address. I hope you are able to heal your marriage and yourself.

 

I suggest this book for you both, available for free download here:

 

[How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair: A Compact Manual for the Unfaithful by Linda J. MacDonald]

Again, my sincerest apologies for any part I had in causing you pain.

Lobe, I read through the attached literature. It looks really valuable. I think what you drafted out above is almost EXACTLY what I would like to say to BS. It's spot on the money for how I feel.

 

Reading through the book, having experienced exAPs defensiveness and blaming me for things that he's done wrong, they have a real struggle before them. But as one BW said in a recovery blog, not my circus, not my monkeys.

[Oran]

Mind you, your xAP has a violent streak - probably best to let her have him, lies and all, and just wash your hands.

Hands well and truly washed, Lobe. There are still aspects of his character that I don't even want to admit to myself.

[Lobe]

not my circus, not my monkeys.

 

Just make sure you're safe. If that wingnut was forward enough to chase off your boyfriend and ruin your job, would he retaliate?

[Oran]

Personally that would fire me up to put her right on a few of those points, because who gives him the right to get away with lying even more to his wife, and why would I have to take all the blame, and have his wife think even less of me, but I get your position here and maybe it is the right thing to just let it go... I don't really know.

In one of exAPs falling outs, his best friend claimed that in the end people just acquiesced to exAPs wishes, and that rang a dark bell for me at the time. I am angry and fired up. But I need to be smart about making the best move for me that leaves me with as little future aggravation as possible.

[Oran]

Just make sure you're safe. If that wingnut was forward enough to chase off your boyfriend and ruin your job, would he retaliate?

Yes. I believe that he would.

[Oran]

This is a great opportunity to demonstrate that you are turning a corner and leaving WH and BS in your past.

That is exactly what I want.