So Angry Right Now

[Lobe]

13, I think the affair atmosphere - lies, deception, delusion - creates the vacuum. Or maybe a black hole is a better metaphor...

 

Your MM sounds like a bit of a douche canoe. I'm not saying my WH wasn't a manipulative conniving lying sack of turd during the A, but I can definitely tell you that he was not like that before nor has he been like that since. He was short sighted, selfish, and deluded. He dragged his AP (albeit willing AP) through his dirty trough of blsh*t every bit as much as me. And he is a terrible liar and even worse actor, so I do believe the shame and remorse he exhibits is true. It's a choice, though. I get that.

 

Really, only person who has all the information needed to make a fully informed decision is the WS. The bottom line for me in every AP scenario boils down to this: unless you are completely unaware that the person you're hooking up with is married, you always get to choose whether you believe the lies or not. There's a choice there. Considering they pretty much all say the same thing, like there's s playbook, I think that if the opportunity to have an affair ever presents itself to me I'll just run. Hard and fast. lol

 

Keep moving forward, 13. Wiser and stronger, with each passing day.

[13Hearts]

I love your saying, Lobe, that the MM is like a grubby cake eater.

 

13Hearts I hope you are better today! I had a great day today and forgot about him entirely until i came to check in on everyone.

 

Yes, I liked Lobe's word picture of the grubby cake eater, too.

 

I am better, thank you ❤❤ I am not obsessing about it, angry, questioning, or anything anymore, thank God. I am, however, doing something that is probably ill-advised, and that is texting with him about nothing in particular. I'm treating him on text as though nothing has changed, just so I can figure out whether or not he is a sociopath. I have no interest or desire at all of starting back up with him. I'm also reading the George Simon In Sheep's Clothing book again, to see if I can identify xMM in there.

 

I know, I know, I should get a better hobby. But I do get satisfaction of texting with him but THIS TIME I am the one pulling the wool over HIS eyes, instead of vice versa! If there was a devil smilie available, I would post it here!

[13Hearts]

DOUCHE CANOE!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Yes, actually, he IS a douche canoe, in fact!

 

 

13, I think the affair atmosphere - lies, deception, delusion - creates the vacuum. Or maybe a black hole is a better metaphor...

 

Your MM sounds like a bit of a douche canoe. I'm not saying my WH wasn't a manipulative conniving lying sack of turd during the A, but I can definitely tell you that he was not like that before nor has he been like that since. He was short sighted, selfish, and deluded. He dragged his AP (albeit willing AP) through his dirty trough of blsh*t every bit as much as me. And he is a terrible liar and even worse actor, so I do believe the shame and remorse he exhibits is true. It's a choice, though. I get that.

 

Really, only person who has all the information needed to make a fully informed decision is the WS. The bottom line for me in every AP scenario boils down to this: unless you are completely unaware that the person you're hooking up with is married, you always get to choose whether you believe the lies or not. There's a choice there. Considering they pretty much all say the same thing, like there's s playbook, I think that if the opportunity to have an affair ever presents itself to me I'll just run. Hard and fast. lol

 

Keep moving forward, 13. Wiser and stronger, with each passing day.

[Maggie888]

Really 13? All these pages and pages of wisdom and now you are texting him?

 

Why not use your time to help shelter animals or homeless people or child cancer patients?

 

Who cares if he is a socipath or not? Really? This is why people in here keep saying you need to realize your eole in this. Bad choices you are making.

[elaine567]

I'm treating him on text as though nothing has changed, just so I can figure out whether or not he is a sociopath. I have no interest or desire at all of starting back up with him. I'm also reading the George Simon In Sheep's Clothing book again, to see if I can identify xMM in there.

 

I know, I know, I should get a better hobby. But I do get satisfaction of texting with him but THIS TIME I am the one pulling the wool over HIS eyes, instead of vice versa! If there was a devil smilie available, I would post it here!

 

YOU are playing a dangerous game, as you are in no real place to be so uninvolved, so distant, so cold and so manipulative.

He will pretty good at that game, he is the expert.

He will reel you back in little by little until one day you will be back at stage one - wanting him, needing him and you will have undone all your good work here and for what?

 

Stop obsessing about HIM, he is who he is.

You got away from him - just make sure it stays that way.

[anika99]

13 have you considered getting counselling so that you can can get to know yourself and gain wisdom? I have noticed in reading this thread that you tend to become overly defensive, outraged even, whenever anyone so much as mentions that you bear some responsibility for your own choices and life. You get so angry whenever anyone suggests that you should look inward or make different decisions.

 

I have not been an OW but I have had a string of failed relationships with the childish self centred men you describe. I used to feel the victim and would stew over the unfairness of it all. After awhile I began to accept that I was a participant in those relationships and that alone made me 50% responsible for them.

 

Whenever someone suggests that you bear some responsibility for the affair you say no, you had endless conversations with him regarding the right thing to do and what your expectations of him were. But why did you even put that much time and effort into trying to get the MM to meet your expectations? That in itself was a poor decision was it not? If you came across a vicious dog looking to attack you would you have endless conversations with that dog trying to convince him to be a nice doggy and do the right thing so that you can be happy or would you just say this dog is dangerous and get yourself out of his reach?

 

I also notice that you contradict yourself regarding your feelings. You will say it was a short affair that didn't really affect you and then in another post you will say different. You just don't really seem to know yourself or realize that you are empowered to make your life what you want it to be.

 

and now you are playing some sick game of texting with the MM you claim is so awful and powerful that you simply couldn't walk away from him or do anything to get him out of your life. And why? Because you want to know if he is a sociopath? Who freaking cares?! Why are you still making this all about him and what's wrong with him? Why not just accept that he is not a good person and remove him from your life? Here you are making yet another choice to involve yourself with him so you you are responsible for whatever comes of this? You are not a victim here, you are choosing this. Just walk away and try to open yourself up to the idea that you are controlling your life and life is not just happening to you. You are in the drivers seat and maybe, just maybe you are the one who is steering your life in the wrong direction but you can choose to steer in another direction?

[Lobe]

I concur with anika that at this point, you're choosing to put your hand in the fire... I don't understand how texting to prove he is a sociopath is going to accomplish anything. What happens when you confirm or deny it?

[Lady Hamilton]

I know, I know, I should get a better hobby. But I do get satisfaction of texting with him but THIS TIME I am the one pulling the wool over HIS eyes, instead of vice versa! If there was a devil smilie available, I would post it here!

 

Girl, you're pulling nothing on him.

 

Right now, he's out on a lunch date with his other OW and he's not hinking if her, thinking of his wife, and thinking that even will all of them around and you knowing they're around, that you're still banging down his door for him. Right now he thinks you are desperate, he's all that, and you're just another girl who proves that.

 

Then, if you go off on him, he won't think "Man, she played me!" He will say "Poor girl couldn't take not having me... Now she's just another crazy b..." And if you think he will hear "I was just using you like you used me" and he'll feel one-upped by you?

 

Think again.

 

He'll think of all you did, the hours you spent doing it, time that could have been spent moving on and living your life, and he'll think you're sad, pathetic, and a psychopath.

 

You still care too much and with every text you announce it. And when it blows up and you fall back into bed with him as his other other woman, or you confront him with a WebMD diagnosis of mental illness, you will walk out the loser, not him.

 

It takes trained professionals serious time to diagnose a patient they have sitting right in front of them with what you, a layman, is trying to diagnose via text. And let's say he is a sociopath... Then what? It won't make you feel better. It won't negate your role in the affair and what you need to be accountable for. It won't make you the victim. It won't be used to find him treatment.

 

At this point, be in or out. This walking the middle stuff doesn't do you any favors.

[heartwhole]

You recently told me to stop looking at OW's social media, so I will return the favor and tell you to stop texting xMM. Ask yourself what you are hoping to get out of this. If he reveals himself to be really, really dastardly and callous, would that change how you feel about things right now? If he seems to want you again, would that change things? If he seems kind of regretful and maybe like a complex person with some good qualities, would that change things? I see this as a no win situation. If he's just a callous jerk, you'll be angry all over again, no matter what you say now. If he expresses any kind of interest, you might get sucked back in. If he seems kind of remorseful and multi-dimensional, then you won't be able to dismiss him as a sociopath and shrug it all off. So I don't see how you wind up ahead by doing this.

 

I understand the urge to "mess with" people who have hurt you, but I don't think following those urges ever puts you on the right side of karma.

[pooldog]

13hearts - how are you doing today?

 

I would never text xMM. But that is me. Where do you want to go next? Some neat hobby, career skills, something else? Make sure you are taking you forward. The rest can be left in the dust. Won't matter soon.

[13Hearts]

13hearts - how are you doing today?

 

I would never text xMM. But that is me. Where do you want to go next? Some neat hobby, career skills, something else? Make sure you are taking you forward. The rest can be left in the dust. Won't matter soon.

 

Doing great, thanks pooldog. I have a bunch of stuff I am working on, which takes up a lot of time and attention. Having some home improvements done, working long hours at work, and taking care of some matters for a sick family member. It's stressful but I stay busy so it's OK.

 

I can't possibly respond to everything everyone has said in response to my texting experiment. But I do want to say thank you all for posting and trying to steer me in one direction or another. Also, let me answer some of your concerns:

 

Those few weeks when I was sad and depressed and couldn't stop thinking about what happened, I realize now it was because 1) for some reason, I went back to believing all the romantic BS he told me early on and 2) I started to believe the reason he was not delivering on his promises had something to do with my self-worth.

 

When I was angry, I was angry, and no one is rational when they are angry. If you knew me in real life you would know that I actually know myself VERY well, and have been told by many different people that I know myself better than anyone they have met.

 

I am not a victim and never claimed to be a victim. I said that the cheating married man is to blame for this mess. Yes, of course I got involved with him, that rather goes without saying, doesn't it? But even HE admits he is entirely to blame. And anyway, it doesn't matter because I simply do not believe in blame or fault. What happened, happened, and I assure you I will not be listening to ANY more men tell me we're meant to be together, or we're going to be together, or that they will be divorcing, or any other romantic or future nonsense.

 

I don't care what xMM thinks, or thinks about me. He's a loser, no matter how you slice it. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and it was a mistake. I'm not attracted to him anymore because I see him for who he really is now. I know you all mean well but you make is sound like he's a superhero or has some superhuman powers that will cause me to collapse as soon as I see him.

 

We're talking about a man who is supposed to be in one of the most ethically stringent professions in the US, but who runs around on company time spending hours each day having sex with women who are not his wife. He has also told me about contracts he has gotten against the rules of his employment contract, basically stealing clients from his employer. So, this man has shown me that he betrays his employer and betrays his wife, so what makes you think I would now put myself in a position where he could betray me? I'm smarter than that.

 

Anyway, I'm not trying to figure out if he's a sociopath so that I can then throw it in his face. I'm not going to TELL him, for goodness sake. I'm just trying to figure out how someone who can ACT so kind, caring, and sweet can actually be a slimy, stinky, snake in the grass. I've known this man for most of my life and I want to figure out how I didn't know he was not who I thought he was.

 

I'm not going to accidentally have sex with him. He wasn't that great. In fact, he was very boring, the kind of guy who has to have everything his way, control the entire sexual experience, and strangely he would never just be present with me. He always had to make up some kind of a story or something; it was really weird and tiresome!

 

Anyway, thank you, you are all so very sweet for warning me and trying to help me or prevent me from getting hurt. I'm not getting reinvolved with MM, I promise!

xoxo

I'll let you know what I figure out, if anything.

[anika99]

Oh so are you a psychologist and experienced in diagnosing personality disorders? Do you know the criteria for diagnosing a sociopath and the procedure taken to make that diagnosis? I'm just curious to know what he could possibly say in a text message conversation that would let you know for sure, beyond a doubt, that he is a sociopath. What do you need to hear from him to determine that he definitely is or definitely isn't a sociopath? You already know all of the big things, like he is a cheater, a liar and manipulative. What else is there to know?

[DKT3]

Doing great, thanks pooldog. I have a bunch of stuff I am working on, which takes up a lot of time and attention. Having some home improvements done, working long hours at work, and taking care of some matters for a sick family member. It's stressful but I stay busy so it's OK.

 

I can't possibly respond to everything everyone has said in response to my texting experiment. But I do want to say thank you all for posting and trying to steer me in one direction or another. Also, let me answer some of your concerns:

 

Those few weeks when I was sad and depressed and couldn't stop thinking about what happened, I realize now it was because 1) for some reason, I went back to believing all the romantic BS he told me early on and 2) I started to believe the reason he was not delivering on his promises had something to do with my self-worth.

 

When I was angry, I was angry, and no one is rational when they are angry. If you knew me in real life you would know that I actually know myself VERY well, and have been told by many different people that I know myself better than anyone they have met.

 

I am not a victim and never claimed to be a victim. I said that the cheating married man is to blame for this mess. Yes, of course I got involved with him, that rather goes without saying, doesn't it? But even HE admits he is entirely to blame. And anyway, it doesn't matter because I simply do not believe in blame or fault. What happened, happened, and I assure you I will not be listening to ANY more men tell me we're meant to be together, or we're going to be together, or that they will be divorcing, or any other romantic or future nonsense.

 

I don't care what xMM thinks, or thinks about me. He's a loser, no matter how you slice it. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and it was a mistake. I'm not attracted to him anymore because I see him for who he really is now. I know you all mean well but you make is sound like he's a superhero or has some superhuman powers that will cause me to collapse as soon as I see him.

 

We're talking about a man who is supposed to be in one of the most ethically stringent professions in the US, but who runs around on company time spending hours each day having sex with women who are not his wife. He has also told me about contracts he has gotten against the rules of his employment contract, basically stealing clients from his employer. So, this man has shown me that he betrays his employer and betrays his wife, so what makes you think I would now put myself in a position where he could betray me? I'm smarter than that.

 

Anyway, I'm not trying to figure out if he's a sociopath so that I can then throw it in his face. I'm not going to TELL him, for goodness sake. I'm just trying to figure out how someone who can ACT so kind, caring, and sweet can actually be a slimy, stinky, snake in the grass. I've known this man for most of my life and I want to figure out how I didn't know he was not who I thought he was.

 

I'm not going to accidentally have sex with him. He wasn't that great. In fact, he was very boring, the kind of guy who has to have everything his way, control the entire sexual experience, and strangely he would never just be present with me. He always had to make up some kind of a story or something; it was really weird and tiresome!

 

Anyway, thank you, you are all so very sweet for warning me and trying to help me or prevent me from getting hurt. I'm not getting reinvolved with MM, I promise!

xoxo

I'll let you know what I figure out, if anything.

 

This is an interesting post in sense that had someone told you he was a loser before, you wouod be prepared to defend him with your life.

 

Interesting in the sense that mm is pretty nice interchangeable, it's not him that got you hooked on him it's you that got you hooked on him. It's the way you convinced yourself he made you feel. All the things you complain about now has always been true about him, why couldn't you see it before?

 

At any rate, your doing great, process it then keep moving forward. Just do your best to not make the next guy pay because this guy is a jackazz.

[pooldog]

I hope you are better today. I have a feeling this is your way of making sense of the lunacy and that you are seeing new light. But I hope you turn the corner and find a bright and happy path. Better days are ahead.

[Lady Hamilton]

Honestly, I think as long as you're still so involved with him like this, it's not an ex-MM and an ex-affair... It's a current MM and, at the least, an emotional affair.

 

You're clearly still emotionally invested in him and absolutely nothing good can come from what's going on. It's bordering on obsessive and more-than flirting with bunny-boiling.

[13Hearts]

Oh so are you a psychologist and experienced in diagnosing personality disorders? Do you know the criteria for diagnosing a sociopath and the procedure taken to make that diagnosis? I'm just curious to know what he could possibly say in a text message conversation that would let you know for sure, beyond a doubt, that he is a sociopath. What do you need to hear from him to determine that he definitely is or definitely isn't a sociopath? You already know all of the big things, like he is a cheater, a liar and manipulative. What else is there to know?

 

No, I'm not a psychologist and I'm not trying to diagnose him. I'm just maintaining civil conversation via text message with him; the same kind of stuff you might discuss with a co-worker, but no more intimate or friendly than that.

 

I just want to see what the weirdo is going to do next, that's all. Plus, Dr Simon describes what he calls Covert-Aggressive, and compares them to a Sociopath, and I'm pretty sure xMM is actually one of those and not a Sociopath because Dr Simon says a Sociopath is rare and truly dangerous.

[13Hearts]

Thanks DKT3. I promise I won't try to make future men pay. But I have had quite enough of men who proclaim their undying love for me, swear we make the greatest couple, and tell me they've never fallen in love with anyone like me before. Whatever. I'm tired of men who make promises and never follow through on them. This isn't the first time it has happened but it will be the last time I fall for it. If they aren't doing what they claim they will do at the time I meet them or become interested, they're OUT!

 

You are right, i fell in love with who I believed he was before really knowing the truth about him. But it was not my idea to become super involved with him, that was his idea. I just wanted to have a little fun, have a few laughs, and be done with it, but he would just not let me go.

 

I wouldn't have defended him with my life had someone called him a loser to my face. I would have, however, told them they didn't know what they were talking about and then I would have stopped talking to that person. Like I've said, xMM was a friend of mine for about 30 YEARS before the affair. I know a lot of people think he's the magic married man who can somehow woo me back into bed with him, but that's just not realistic and I'm not going to dump a lifelong friend completely just because I slept with them and figured out they're weird, disloyal, controlling, and boring in bed. Not all of my friends have to be PERFECT you know.

 

I couldn't see the truth about him before because, like I said earlier, I was never in his inner circle. We never hung out or associated with the same people. I don't know his family and he keeps most people at a distance, for whatever reason.

 

This is an interesting post in sense that had someone told you he was a loser before, you wouod be prepared to defend him with your life.

 

Interesting in the sense that mm is pretty nice interchangeable, it's not him that got you hooked on him it's you that got you hooked on him. It's the way you convinced yourself he made you feel. All the things you complain about now has always been true about him, why couldn't you see it before?

 

At any rate, your doing great, process it then keep moving forward. Just do your best to not make the next guy pay because this guy is a jackazz.

[13Hearts]

I hope you are better today. I have a feeling this is your way of making sense of the lunacy and that you are seeing new light. But I hope you turn the corner and find a bright and happy path. Better days are ahead.

 

Thanks pooldog. Everything is bright and happy right now. I am getting lots of stuff done, have a nice day with family planned tomorrow, all is calm, not worried or brooding over xMM or any of that. I am good!

[13Hearts]

Honestly, I think as long as you're still so involved with him like this, it's not an ex-MM and an ex-affair... It's a current MM and, at the least, an emotional affair.

 

You're clearly still emotionally invested in him and absolutely nothing good can come from what's going on. It's bordering on obsessive and more-than flirting with bunny-boiling.

 

And I think you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Why do people here have to insult others to try to get their point across?

 

How is texting the man about the weather, weekend plans, how the family is doing, etc "so involved?" We're not sexting or proclaiming our love for one another or pining away. We're just texting about mundane crap.

 

It IS an xMM and a finished affair. What part of "I'm no longer attracted to him because he's a weirdo" don't you get?

 

And please, tell me, how am I CLEARLY emotionally invested in him?

 

Obsessive and flirting with bunny boiling?? Where do you get this stuff? I know you don't know this but, as I TRIED to explain to xMM for YEARS, I have a full-time CAREER, my own home, my own family, and a lot of responsibilities. I DON'T HAVE TIME to be obsessive, chase a man, or catch a rabbit. And even if I DID have time, I would NEVER spend my time obsessing about, chasing after, policing, investigating, or trying to possess SOME GUY. I want to be involved in doing fun things in my spare time, with positive, uplifting, HAPPY people who also want to enjoy what little spare time they have and VOLUNTARILY choose to do so with me.

[13Hearts]

To whomever it was that said I contradicted myself, and whoever said I spent too much time trying to get what I wanted from him, please allow me to explain.

 

In the beginning I was just friends with xMM (many years), and recently we started hanging out a little because of a shared hobby. Then I hooked up with him and immediately told him I did not want to be involved, it was a mistake or whatever, because I don't want to be involved with a MM. It's not me, it's not my style, I don't want to share someone with another person, it's not conducive to the kind of relationship I want, etc etc etc. I told him what I wanted in a relationship and that we were not a good match.

 

He told me all sorts of things about the marriage and said that we would be a regular couple, like I described I wanted. I gave him the benefit of the doubt, continued the relationship for a couple months max, just enough time to see that he was not coming through with his promises.

 

(At that juncture, understand, there was a giant difference in the things we wanted. I was very clear about what I wanted and that he did not meet those requirements. He, on the other hand, LIED so that he could get what HE wanted, despite the fact that it was the OPPOSITE of what I told him I wanted. THIS is what pissed me off. You tell a man what you want, they try to make themselves fit into that picture, despite the MILLION times you tell them "You are not the right man for me," and then proceed to WASTE MY TIME giving me all the things he thinks he needs to give me in order to CHANGE MY MIND about what I want, all to accommodate HIM.)

 

Many, many times I tried to get rid of him, make him go away and leave me alone, but he wouldn't and he kept swearing his love and telling me his plans for getting out of the marriage, etc, which he never followed through on. I kept trying to get rid of him and every time I did, he would panic and go buy me something.

 

I went on with my life and tried to SLOWLY move away from him because it was apparent that every time I tried to cut him off and go NC he would panic or become very anxious. Who knows, he may have an anxiety problem or something, IDK, but I'm not going to be cruel to someone I care about. Plus, he was buying me nice stuff.

 

Years later I guess he got the picture and he stopped bothering me.

 

Couple weeks ago I got sad (maybe I missed him?) and then I got angry at him for lying to me. Now I'm trying to figure out if he has some kind of disorder or something, because I know I'm not stupid.

 

I hope this makes some sense or puts some better perspective on things.

Edited July 22, 2016 by 13Hearts

[13Hearts]

For anyone who might be interested in what I have learned so far, here's an update. For those who think I'm wrong to continue texting with him, please try to understand that I am trying to prevent myself from falling into this sort of "trap" again. Because I had a very strong, long-standing rule NOT to ever get involved with married people, even when separated, and I'm not a stupid person and even suspected the things he was telling me might have been designed to get me to give in to what he wanted.

 

Texting with xMM has taught me that 1) He has a very specific story about his participation in an extramarital affair with me and he is sticking to it. I'm not sure how this benefits him, whether it is to keep from hurting his conscience, or to allow him to continue to live in non-reality, or to keep me on a back burner.

 

2) He definitely manipulates by lying by omission. This means he tells a consistent story but he leaves out big, very important pieces that would reveal the actual truth. As long as I (or anyone) choose to TRUST him, then I would continue to be manipulated.

 

So, it seems, that trusting him may have been my first mistake.

 

His actions told me very loudly that he truly loved me. But I think that was just a facade, a means to an end.

 

Here's a quote from Dr Simon's blog that is helping me understand today:

 

Most disturbed characters don’t hear that little voice in their heads that urge most of us to do right or admonish most of us when we’re contemplating doing wrong. They don’t “push” themselves to take on responsibilities and don’t “arrest” themselves when they want something they shouldn’t have. Any qualms of conscience they might experience can be eliminated with great ease. In the most severe disturbances of character (i.e. the psychopath or sociopath), conscience is not simply weak, underdeveloped, or flawed, but can be absent altogether.

 

It’s really hard to fathom and accept that there are people in this world who simply don’t have the same degree capacity most of us have to be inwardly troubled when they contemplate doing things that are potentially very harmful to others or even themselves. Not being able to accept this key difference between neurotics and disturbed characters can be a setup for possible victimization. I’ve written about other important differences between neurotics and character disorders, such as how they differ with respect to experiencing “anxiety” and will be elaborating on other differences in future posts as part of a series on the key differences between these two very different types of individuals.

[MidnightBlue1980]

For anyone who might be interested in what I have learned so far, here's an update. For those who think I'm wrong to continue texting with him, please try to understand that I am trying to prevent myself from falling into this sort of "trap" again. Because I had a very strong, long-standing rule NOT to ever get involved with married people, even when separated, and I'm not a stupid person and even suspected the things he was telling me might have been designed to get me to give in to what he wanted.

 

Texting with xMM has taught me that 1) He has a very specific story about his participation in an extramarital affair with me and he is sticking to it. I'm not sure how this benefits him, whether it is to keep from hurting his conscience, or to allow him to continue to live in non-reality, or to keep me on a back burner.

 

2) He definitely manipulates by lying by omission. This means he tells a consistent story but he leaves out big, very important pieces that would reveal the actual truth. As long as I (or anyone) choose to TRUST him, then I would continue to be manipulated.

 

So, it seems, that trusting him may have been my first mistake.

 

His actions told me very loudly that he truly loved me. But I think that was just a facade, a means to an end.

 

Here's a quote from Dr Simon's blog that is helping me understand today:

 

I don't think anyone here thinks you are "wrong" for texting him. Most of us including myself have done this and are just aware that it doesn't help. I did the same exact things and honestly, it's just this total mind f*ck. People are just trying to help as we see things clearer from the outside. The only way to feel better is no contact. I know better than anyone - I see him weekly and I tried the LC, the full contact, the talking, every which way. I stopped all that last Monday cold turkey and I'm telling you, I am feeling better. There is just no other way.

[RedOlive]

13Hearts, thank you for posting updates! I know it's helping me a great deal, especially your resent two insights as to what you've learned from your xMM.

 

Though I still can not think of mine as a mastermind manipulator, I recognize that he instinctually(?) did much of the same: creating a story to stick with (in my case a tale of once-in-a-lifetime feelings), and lying by omission (I still don't know much of his family life aside form his marital status and the fact that they have kids). I really do think he genuinely convinced himself to believe it all completely. Anyway, it's super useful for me, personally, to be reminded of what the reality of any such situation is, so please do continue posting.

 

As to polarizing opinions on whether or not you are in control of texting with your xMM... I believe it isn't over till it's over. You obviously have to do whatever you need during this phase in order to get to the very end of it.

 

There is a lot of wisdom to be found here in responses form the "outside looking in", but that said it's your battle to fight and anything you choose to do at this moment takes care of a specific need. I wish the same for you as I do for myself - for this need to dissipate and be replaced by absolute indifference.

Edited July 23, 2016 by RedOlive

[elaine567]

How is texting the man about the weather, weekend plans, how the family is doing, etc "so involved?" We're not sexting or proclaiming our love for one another or pining away. We're just texting about mundane crap.

I am sure you could find someone else to share "mundane crap" with, so why him?

And how exactly will sharing "mundane crap", identify him as a sociopath?

Does his wife know you are in contact?

[pooldog]

I think you are trying to figure out why you did it but you need to give yourself a mulligan and forgive yourself and know you are ok. You learned a lot and won't do it again.

 

I never dated anyone separated or married but I fell in the hole too.

 

It is hard to be single then have someone pursue so heavily and say they would divorce for you. We had no idea. But I bet you and I would never do this again.

 

Sending hugs!

 

 

 

 

For anyone who might be interested in what I have learned so far, here's an update. For those who think I'm wrong to continue texting with him, please try to understand that I am trying to prevent myself from falling into this sort of "trap" again. Because I had a very strong, long-standing rule NOT to ever get involved with married people, even when separated, and I'm not a stupid person and even suspected the things he was telling me might have been designed to get me to give in to what he wanted.

 

Texting with xMM has taught me that 1) He has a very specific story about his participation in an extramarital affair with me and he is sticking to it. I'm not sure how this benefits him, whether it is to keep from hurting his conscience, or to allow him to continue to live in non-reality, or to keep me on a back burner.

 

2) He definitely manipulates by lying by omission. This means he tells a consistent story but he leaves out big, very important pieces that would reveal the actual truth. As long as I (or anyone) choose to TRUST him, then I would continue to be manipulated.

 

So, it seems, that trusting him may have been my first mistake.

 

His actions told me very loudly that he truly loved me. But I think that was just a facade, a means to an end.

 

Here's a quote from Dr Simon's blog that is helping me understand today: