So Angry Right Now

[13Hearts]

I'm sorry you've had a cr@ppy time, 13Hearts.

 

It sounds like you were taken in by someone who is an experienced liar and perhaps something of a narcissist? I think I read something on here about there being a link between some APs and personality disorder.

 

In my xMM case I believe I am the first, the last and the only affair he will ever had. I think he's scared the s*** out of himself and because there was no DDay will live with a sword of damocles hanging over him either a) forever or b) until he grows a spine and tells her himself.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to say that i wish you the best in all of this. Don't feel worthless, he lied. None of us are blameless but at some point we need to forgive.

 

I'm not there yet; either forgiving him or myself but maybe you could be.

 

You did, and do, deserve better.

 

Lots of support here x

Thank you.

 

I have been in a lot of relationships and have been through a lot of break ups. I know how to get over a break up. You could say I am expert at it. But this? Going on from an A with a MM? I don't think I will ever see life the same way again. Affairs change you, and you can never, ever go back. Not like when you break up w a BF. I don't know why.

[lilacwine]

Thank you.

 

I have been in a lot of relationships and have been through a lot of break ups. I know how to get over a break up. You could say I am expert at it. But this? Going on from an A with a MM? I don't think I will ever see life the same way again. Affairs change you, and you can never, ever go back. Not like when you break up w a BF. I don't know why.

 

Hearts, The exact same thing happened to me. Don't know why. But after the affair, he ruined it for me, forever. ((( And FYI, he fed me with the SAME exact lies your MM fed you. We have been completely NC (11 months) but of course he's still with his wife and I'm sure he's gotten himself a new OW now. Aren't they all the same? The saddest thing is that they can move on so easily with their life, as if nothing happened. Only the single OWs like us are scarred forever. I don't know if I will ever move on, or if I really want to... Men are scary!!! I'd rather be alone then be lied to like that again now that I know what some people can be capable of.

[13Hearts]

Hearts, The exact same thing happened to me. Don't know why. But after the affair, he ruined it for me, forever. ((( And FYI, he fed me with the SAME exact lies your MM fed you. We have been completely NC (11 months) but of course he's still with his wife and I'm sure he's gotten himself a new OW now. Aren't they all the same? The saddest thing is that they can move on so easily with their life, as if nothing happened. Only the single OWs like us are scarred forever. I don't know if I will ever move on, or if I really want to... Men are scary!!! I'd rather be alone then be lied to like that again now that I know what some people can be capable of.

 

I would rather be alone, too.

 

I wonder if the reason why it is so very difficult to get over an affair is because you had to spend the entire relationship in limbo, waiting for the relationship to actually start.

 

Or maybe it's because we get stuck in this mode of constantly wanting something you cannot have, because someone is holding it just out of reach.

 

What a very cruel and heartless thing to do.

 

I have done a bit of reading on sociopaths and what I know is they are purposefully cruel to others for their own satisfaction. They have no empathy for anyone. I found that xMM actually did have a cruel streak to him. It seemed it was gratifying for him to cause others to suffer, but it was only slightly noticeable to me, and I am acutely sensitive to negativity and was close enough to him to see it.

[Doublegold]

As a BS, never did I imagine I would draw so much strength and inspiration form behind "enemy lines." I am angry with you, not at you. Affairs are such crap. Whoever invented them deserves to be high fived in the face with a handful of rocks.

 

Lobe, I have been reading your posts for awhile now. You are so refreshing. Thank you for all the support you have shown from your heart.

 

I wish you all the best.

[Quiet Storm]

MM is dysfunctional and needs attention and admiration to feel alive, wanted, desired.

 

He wants a happy, fun, sexy woman who admires and respects him. That's impossible to sustain, since he is not an admirable person worthy of respect. Instead of becoming a better man, he just finds a new woman who will do all that, because she doesn't know the real him. Yet.

 

His wife likely knows he has issues. He doesn't seek attention and admiration from her because he's already disappointed her.

 

As an OW, you provided him with that attention and admiration. But then you got expectations. So he made promises. But he can't live up to them, and now he has disappointed you, too.

 

Disappointed and angry women are not good sources for attention and admiration.

 

So he seeks out someone new who sees him as interesting, cute, funny and smart. Someone that will admire him and give him love and attention. Until he disappoints her, too.

 

Then he will look for another one, hungry for that affection and admiration. She'll happily provide that for awhile, but then she'll want more.

 

See a pattern here?

 

It's not about you, his wife or the other OW. It's about him and his needs. It's only natural that you, his wife or any woman, would not continue to admire him when he lies. It's impossible to be genuinely happy, playful and sexy in the midst of all his broken promises.

 

I don't think he coldly planned to manipulate you or is even aware of it. He just has no self awareness and is dysfunctional. He wants all the good parts of a relationship, but can't handle feeling responsible for someone else's feelings. He's incapable of having a genuine, committed relationship. It hurts, but you are much better off without him in your life.

[13Hearts]

MM is dysfunctional and needs attention and admiration to feel alive, wanted, desired.

 

He wants a happy, fun, sexy woman who admires and respects him. That's impossible to sustain, since he is not an admirable person worthy of respect. Instead of becoming a better man, he just finds a new woman who will do all that, because she doesn't know the real him. Yet.

 

His wife likely knows he has issues. He doesn't seek attention and admiration from her because he's already disappointed her.

 

As an OW, you provided him with that attention and admiration. But then you got expectations. So he made promises. But he can't live up to them, and now he has disappointed you, too.

 

Disappointed and angry women are not good sources for attention and admiration.

 

So he seeks out someone new who sees him as interesting, cute, funny and smart. Someone that will admire him and give him love and attention. Until he disappoints her, too.

 

Then he will look for another one, hungry for that affection and admiration. She'll happily provide that for awhile, but then she'll want more.

 

See a pattern here?

 

It's not about you, his wife or the other OW. It's about him and his needs. It's only natural that you, his wife or any woman, would not continue to admire him when he lies. It's impossible to be genuinely happy, playful and sexy in the midst of all his broken promises.

 

I don't think he coldly planned to manipulate you or is even aware of it. He just has no self awareness and is dysfunctional. He wants all the good parts of a relationship, but can't handle feeling responsible for someone else's feelings. He's incapable of having a genuine, committed relationship. It hurts, but you are much better off without him in your life.

 

This is the best explanation of the dysfunction of a MM I have ever come across. Thank you, Quiet Storm. It makes me feel just a teensy bit better. I know I will be coming back here to read it over and over, every time I become heart broken and despondent again.

[13Hearts]

I do want to say, though, now that I have read through your post a second time, that I did not have any great expectations. All I wanted was to do things together on the weekends and enjoy one another's company after work during the week. I didn't care what we did together, as long as we were spending spare time with one another. It was HE who started in with what we were going go do, dating eachother, going places, getting married, living together, traveling together. It's like everything out of his mouth was just baiting me.

[S2B]

I do want to say, though, now that I have read through your post a second time, that I did not have any great expectations. All I wanted was to do things together on the weekends and enjoy one another's company after work during the week. I didn't care what we did together, as long as we were spending spare time with one another. It was HE who started in with what we were going go do, dating eachother, going places, getting married, living together, traveling together. It's like everything out of his mouth was just baiting me.

 

They tell these lies of future faking knowing that they need to in order to feed the fantasy. It's all a fantasy for them.

 

My rule that works for me is: no dating men until their divorce is FINAL! You would not believe the amount of men that try to date and portray themselves as available and single when they are actually married. I need proof that they aren't married.

 

He's a jerk! He's always been a jerk - it's just that you're just now noticing.

 

Does your sister know she's married to a jerk? I knew it while I was married. I felt I had to stay married. Fortunately I woke up from that fog of lies I was fed as a child! There is absolutely NO reason to stay married if the marriage doesn't feel right and make you happy.

 

Don't think all men are like him - they're not. There are decent men. Lots of decent men just as there are decent women.

 

Don't let that jerk spoil it for you. He doesn't deserve all your power. The power is yours. You can do positive things when you stop handing him all your power.

[Poppy47]

AMEN TO THAT.

 

Separated is still married.

 

Poppy

[13Hearts]

I don't know if other MM are like this but I just realized conversations with xMM were about the same things, over and over, pretty much every day. Limited to him acting the role of Father, in large part. Things that at first appeared to be sweet and thoughtful, like little warnings about what I should or should not do, but get old when repeated over time.

 

Also, saying the same things about marriage, wife, unhappiness, etc. Just stuck to same story, and would still say the same things probably.

 

Did anyone else experience this with MM??

[13Hearts]

They tell these lies of future faking knowing that they need to in order to feed the fantasy. It's all a fantasy for them.

 

My rule that works for me is: no dating men until their divorce is FINAL! You would not believe the amount of men that try to date and portray themselves as available and single when they are actually married. I need proof that they aren't married.

 

He's a jerk! He's always been a jerk - it's just that you're just now noticing.

 

Does your sister know she's married to a jerk? I knew it while I was married. I felt I had to stay married. Fortunately I woke up from that fog of lies I was fed as a child! There is absolutely NO reason to stay married if the marriage doesn't feel right and make you happy.

 

Don't think all men are like him - they're not. There are decent men. Lots of decent men just as there are decent women.

 

Don't let that jerk spoil it for you. He doesn't deserve all your power. The power is yours. You can do positive things when you stop handing him all your power.

Thanks, this was helpful.

 

Just want to clarify, I did not have an affair with a man who is married to an actual, biological sister. I meant "sister" as in comrade. Sorry for the ambiguity.

 

Yes, he is a jerk. And looking at it in the larger perspective I can see he is a screw-up! Spending money on women that belongs in the marriage! Taking time from actual work (career) to chase women and have sex while BW thinks he is working! I was so focused on all the fake future cr@p that I did not see the truth

[immokk]

I don't know if other MM are like this but I just realized conversations with xMM were about the same things, over and over, pretty much every day. Limited to him acting the role of Father, in large part. Things that at first appeared to be sweet and thoughtful, like little warnings about what I should or should not do, but get old when repeated over time.

 

Also, saying the same things about marriage, wife, unhappiness, etc. Just stuck to same story, and would still say the same things probably.

 

Did anyone else experience this with MM??

 

I think this may be the experience of lots but it was not for me.

 

Our conversations were about everything... perhaps because we had been friends for so long first, so we talked about lots anyway. Exercise, food, travel, work, politics, a debate show we both listen to on the radio, sport, current affairs, bereavement, intimacy.

 

After our A started we actually very rarely talked about his troubled marriage. Those conversations were reserved largely to our very early friendship, when it really was just that and absolutely nothing more, when even then he didn't speak of it often.

 

When we chatted once or twice a week, when we were friends, if he ever did mention anything about his unhappiness he would withdraw afterwards and he always seemed embarrassed.

 

During the A, it was rare for us to talk about his marriage. We didn't participate in BS bashing, or whatever some do. In fact, on the rare occasion during the A he would be frustrated about something at home I would be the one telling him not to be so hard, not to fight.

[elaine567]

I don't know if other MM are like this but I just realized conversations with xMM were about the same things, over and over, pretty much every day. Limited to him acting the role of Father, in large part. Things that at first appeared to be sweet and thoughtful, like little warnings about what I should or should not do, but get old when repeated over time.

 

Also, saying the same things about marriage, wife, unhappiness, etc. Just stuck to same story, and would still say the same things probably.

 

Did anyone else experience this with MM??

 

He cannot be himself else he may bring up some topic that would upset you so he sticks to the same safe topics, the ones that got a good response the last time.

He is also lying so he has to stick to the script else he may be found out.

[OneLov]

I don't know if other MM are like this but I just realized conversations with xMM were about the same things, over and over, pretty much every day. Limited to himacting the role of Father, in large part. Things that at first appeared to be sweet and thoughtful, like little warnings about what I should or should not do, but get old when repeated over time.

 

Also, saying the same things about marriage, wife, unhappiness, etc. Just stuck to same story, and would still say the same things probably.

 

Did anyone else experience this with MM??

 

Not sure if other MM are like this but most narcissists are. It's always about them (him). What you should or should not do ... according to him. Narcissists are the center of their own universe and most do not have the ability to remove themselves from the center of everything, including conversation.

Edited June 17, 2016 by OneLov

[loveisanaction]

I agree with the poster who said that he has to stick to the script otherwise he could be found out.

 

Very few married men develope a friendship with a girl then tell her he loves his wife but would she still sleep with him anyway? Married men know that few women would. So they have to lie about how bad their marriage is how the wife hasn't given him sex in years, how they are sleeping in different rooms, how the marriage has been over for years and how they are just waiting for the kids to grow up before they divorce.

 

Maybe for some that story is true but a man of integrity and one who is truly going to get a divorce will actually wait until he is divorced before he pursues a sexual relationship with another woman.

 

Men in general understand that words mean a lot to us women. Unfortunately in this day and age with so many lying cheating married men out there, us women need to be very vigilant when it comes to the opposite sex.

 

I agree with the poster who said if you're not single I will not date you. If you're separated you are still legally married so I won't date you either. Too many of them are just looking for fun outside of the marriage.

 

If he's married..separated..has a girlfriend. Rule of thumb.. RUN!

[S2B]

Thanks, this was helpful.

 

Just want to clarify, I did not have an affair with a man who is married to an actual, biological sister. I meant "sister" as in comrade. Sorry for the ambiguity.

 

Yes, he is a jerk. And looking at it in the larger perspective I can see he is a screw-up! Spending money on women that belongs in the marriage! Taking time from actual work (career) to chase women and have sex while BW thinks he is working! I was so focused on all the fake future cr@p that I did not see the truth

 

So now that you actually know - you can change things FOR yourself! Yay!

 

Can you get a new job?

[Sabella]

I don't know if other MM are like this but I just realized conversations with xMM were about the same things, over and over, pretty much every day. Limited to him acting the role of Father, in large part. Things that at first appeared to be sweet and thoughtful, like little warnings about what I should or should not do, but get old when repeated over time.

 

Also, saying the same things about marriage, wife, unhappiness, etc. Just stuck to same story, and would still say the same things probably.

 

Did anyone else experience this with MM??

 

In the beginning of our A he was way more open and we talked about a lot of different things, mostly fun and positive things. His actions towards me and his words were more aligned. As things progressed towards the end, things shifted, perhaps he was bored of me, perhaps he really did feel some guilt, and he started shutting down more. He would say the words to keep me around, but they weren't heartfelt. He was just saying the same things to justify his actions that had worked in the past. Like a script almost.

 

When I think of this and remember certain dialog exchanges between us a quote pops up into my head. Not sure where it originated from. "People don't change, they just reveal themselves over time." I don't think this literally about most people, but in regards to affairs it seems to ring true. We are often just so clouded by emotion and turmoil we don't see the snippets of truth that are always there, even from the beginning. But over time they never go away and become glaringly obvious.

 

My AP wasn't a horrid person, but he was selfish and very self centered. My part in it was being stupid and selfish too. Not taking care of my bad marriage ahead of time, and falling for something more imagined than real to escape my reality.

[13Hearts]

He cannot be himself else he may bring up some topic that would upset you so he sticks to the same safe topics, the ones that got a good response the last time.

He is also lying so he has to stick to the script else he may be found out.

 

Good point about his need for a script!

 

When I still allowed the physical affair, it was definitely different. We did talk about all sorts of things and were very compatible, intellectually and otherwise. However, once I refused to continue the physical affair, the conversations became more and more limited over time.

[13Hearts]

I agree with the poster who said that he has to stick to the script otherwise he could be found out.

 

Very few married men develope a friendship with a girl then tell her he loves his wife but would she still sleep with him anyway? Married men know that few women would. So they have to lie about how bad their marriage is how the wife hasn't given him sex in years, how they are sleeping in different rooms, how the marriage has been over for years and how they are just waiting for the kids to grow up before they divorce.

 

Maybe for some that story is true but a man of integrity and one who is truly going to get a divorce will actually wait until he is divorced before he pursues a sexual relationship with another woman.

 

Men in general understand that words mean a lot to us women. Unfortunately in this day and age with so many lying cheating married men out there, us women need to be very vigilant when it comes to the opposite sex.

 

I agree with the poster who said if you're not single I will not date you. If you're separated you are still legally married so I won't date you either. Too many of them are just looking for fun outside of the marriage.

 

If he's married..separated..has a girlfriend. Rule of thumb.. RUN!

 

Here's the thing: I DID run! Many times. I tried everything imaginable to get rid of him. He would show up at my house, send gifts to my house, come over when I was not home and mow and trim the lawn, shovel the snow, do yardwork, etc etc. He would not stop. My GFs would tell me he HAS TO really love you and be serious if he is doing all these things!

[loveisanaction]

13Hearts....Not so dear. Men by nature are pursuers; they pursue for all kinds of reasons...sex...infatuation....the challenge.... Men are natural pursuers, doesn't mean love.

 

I say this with respect and kindness. If he did love you he would have waited until he was divorced to pursue you. If he was so deeply head over heels in love with you he would have gotten a divorce by now, he would not want to risk losing you. Instead he's on vacation with his wife and it's not the first time he's done so since you've been in affair with him.

 

A man who pursues a woman whilst still married insults her. He is showing her that he assumes that she will have an affair with him whilst he is still married. Honestly, I would be more respectful of the man who is scared to pursue a girl because he is married and would be concerned of how she would view him.

 

Your married man may really like you 13Hearts but not enough to leave his wife. It's very easy for a man to say that they will end their marriage but when they go home and think about the impact it could have on their life, they change their minds.

[Poppy47]

I don't know if other MM are like this but I just realized conversations with xMM were about the same things, over and over, pretty much every day. Limited to him acting the role of Father, in large part. Things that at first appeared to be sweet and thoughtful, like little warnings about what I should or should not do, but get old when repeated over time.

 

Also, saying the same things about marriage, wife, unhappiness, etc. Just stuck to same story, and would still say the same things probably.

 

Did anyone else experience this with MM??

 

It wasn't exactly like this but he had a carefully scripted story for everything... family, the affair his childhood. Yes, it was a like a carefully rehearsed part in his drama.

 

I think he was so broken, he believed it all himself.

 

Poppy

[whichwayisup]

Oh, I stopped LONG ago. Years. But my heart didn't. In my mind, I gave him until this spring to leave. He kept telling me how he had to have all this work done on his house so he could put it on the market. Told me he was selling the house and buying a condo to put her in and then we could be together. Here it is June and the house is not on the market. So my heart is only now dealing with the truth. My mind gave him the benefit of the doubt for much too long. I stopped the sexual affair only a few months after it started, when I did not see behavior that supported what he was telling me.

 

I don't find myself lucky for knowing. It hurts so much I want to give up on life. Be done with it all.

 

You got played. He's a narcissist and now that you know what's what, forget him and try your best to NOT let him ruin your life. You made a big mistake, forgive yourself and even him. I know that's easier said than done but hating him and giving him power over you like this isn't good. You have a lot to live for, your friends, family etc., so don't let this fool ruin you.

 

Get help, seek counseling because life is too short to waste it on someone who treated you poorly. Take back your power and fight hard to push forward in life, don't look backwards.

[Quiet Storm]

I do want to say, though, now that I have read through your post a second time, that I did not have any great expectations. All I wanted was to do things together on the weekends and enjoy one another's company after work during the week. I didn't care what we did together, as long as we were spending spare time with one another. It was HE who started in with what we were going go do, dating eachother, going places, getting married, living together, traveling together. It's like everything out of his mouth was just baiting me.

 

Maybe you didn't have spoken expectations, but you had hope. You were in love with him, and he could see that.

 

He didn't want to change his life, but didn't want you to find someone else. He wanted both. And he was willing to lie to both of you to have that.

 

In his mind, he's not thinking of you or her, or what he is doing to both of you. He's thinking of himself and what he wants.

[Grapesofwrath]

OP: Use this anger to propel yourself forward into a healthier phase of life. You have already done the hardest part. When someone sets out to deceive you, he is already 100 steps ahead. Don't blame yourself for that.

 

Many of the things he said were lies, but the part about you being lovable and desirable are all true. Don't let this experience rob you of the chance to have love in your life. He can move on with his damaged self (and his poor wife...sheesh) and you can move on toward the rest of your beautiful life.

[Lady2163]

Players, narcissists and manipulators exist whether male or female, single, married, separated or involved.

 

I'm not sure why we as others get sucked in so much. There must be a lot of really smooth talking sociopaths out there. Maybe it's just because we want to believe what they are saying so desperately.

 

I'm a former OW and I ended things, probably because I was starting to care too much. We never told each other we loved each other, but I ended things because I couldn't bear for him to lose it all and risk it all.

 

Now, years ago when I was married and desperately looking for an exit affair, I think I would have leapt tall buildings if I had found a man. As it was, I had a five year plan in the back of my mind, but I had yet to start it. If I had found a single AP, I'm quite certain I would have thrown the five year plan out the window and probably asked for a two year plan. But I would have explained the why and showed monthly progress to the AP.

 

I have an ex husband who did some pretty unforgivable things.