"Destabilization Phase" and your thoughts and experience

[ZBA]

No one will judge here. You do what feels right for you. but one week of not talking at all, that's really great. I think I missed your story? Did you have a dday? How long was your A? We're there any I love yous or future faking?

 

Thank you for your nonjudgmental support, LOSTGIRL. I do feel like this thread is a "safe" place thanks to people like you who are going through it too. No, I have not posted my story...I haven't had the courage or strength to yet. It's all just too heavy still. I'll try to answer your questions as much as I can. There is so much more to it than I'm getting into, but here's a start.

 

Our affair was 2.5 years long. Prior to that we were friends for a year, and I would say there was definitely some degree of an EA going on for a few months before physical lines were crossed. He chased, I enjoyed it but resisted, and finally one night I gave in. We were always close friends, it wasn't just getting together for sex, we'd have coffee, lunch, dinner, phone calls, etc - far more often than sex. That said, we've been physical often.

 

For the longest time we never said I love you or wanted it to go there...but over two years in, we realized we did love each other. He said it first, and I replied that he already knew I loved him too, to which he nodded knowingly. It was a very emotional evening that I'll never forget. We didn't have sex that night, just left it at our emotions, which meant more. Whenever we said it after that, he'd be the first to say it and I'd melt. No, no future-faking between us... we loved each other intensely and genuinely, but we never led each other to believe we would leave our respective relationships. In our minds, what we shared had its own place (regardless of how wrong it was), and we were both okay leaving it at that without wanting more. The closest we ever came was a "what if" conversation that he initiated, but there was no intent behind it.

 

Yes, we had a D-Day. One fine morning, his wife found some racy messages between us on his phone, from the night before. He had deleted everything else up to that point, but she saw enough that there was no denying it. Both he and I explained it away to our spouses and minimized it as much as possible. He convinced his wife that we were only physical one time and didn't even go all the way. From our conversations after D-Day, it seems she believes him.

 

We kept in touch daily (for the most part) after D-Day, for about 3 weeks. Saw each other very briefly on two different occasions. He told me he can't lose her, but he can't lose me either. (Obviously he can lose me - I hold no delusions that his marriage comes first.) Then one week ago, I wrote him, he read it, and he simply never replied. He continues to check our app, which makes me want to shake him and ask, "WHY???" Why do you keep looking, when you won't say anything???

[Lostgirl186]

Thank you for your nonjudgmental support, LOSTGIRL. I do feel like this thread is a "safe" place thanks to people like you who are going through it too. No, I have not posted my story...I haven't had the courage or strength to yet. It's all just too heavy still. I'll try to answer your questions as much as I can. There is so much more to it than I'm getting into, but here's a start.

 

Our affair was 2.5 years long. Prior to that we were friends for a year, and I would say there was definitely some degree of an EA going on for a few months before physical lines were crossed. He chased, I enjoyed it but resisted, and finally one night I gave in. We were always close friends, it wasn't just getting together for sex, we'd have coffee, lunch, dinner, phone calls, etc - far more often than sex. That said, we've been physical often.

 

For the longest time we never said I love you or wanted it to go there...but over two years in, we realized we did love each other. He said it first, and I replied that he already knew I loved him too, to which he nodded knowingly. It was a very emotional evening that I'll never forget. We didn't have sex that night, just left it at our emotions, which meant more. Whenever we said it after that, he'd be the first to say it and I'd melt. No, no future-faking between us... we loved each other intensely and genuinely, but we never led each other to believe we would leave our respective relationships. In our minds, what we shared had its own place (regardless of how wrong it was), and we were both okay leaving it at that without wanting more. The closest we ever came was a "what if" conversation that he initiated, but there was no intent behind it.

 

Yes, we had a D-Day. One fine morning, his wife found some racy messages between us on his phone, from the night before. He had deleted everything else up to that point, but she saw enough that there was no denying it. Both he and I explained it away to our spouses and minimized it as much as possible. He convinced his wife that we were only physical one time and didn't even go all the way. From our conversations after D-Day, it seems she believes him.

 

We kept in touch daily (for the most part) after D-Day, for about 3 weeks. Saw each other very briefly on two different occasions. He told me he can't lose her, but he can't lose me either. (Obviously he can lose me - I hold no delusions that his marriage comes first.) Then one week ago, I wrote him, he read it, and he simply never replied. He continues to check our app, which makes me want to shake him and ask, "WHY???" Why do you keep looking, when you won't say anything???

 

Wow. I'm so sorry. We've never done I love yous or anything like that. We both have always made it a point to say that we're strictly physical, even though I know now that I have feelings. I don't think mine are love, but there are feelings there. I do think for my MM is has all been strictly physical.

 

I think he is singing into the app for the same reason you are. It's his way of knowing that your checking in and thinking about him too. I bet if you didn't check the app for a few days, he would wonder if you were trying to move on. It's like licking the lollipop but not actually taking a bite for him. I haven't talked to my AP in 4 days including today... But today would be the only day I would count as successful bc we don't speak on non working days.

 

Keep talking here, keep letting it out. No matter what you choose to do, we are here for support

[Lobe]

I think he is singing into the app for the same reason you are. It's his way of knowing that your checking in and thinking about him too.

 

So basically breaking NC. Isn't that a bit like pain shopping?

[Rea]

Our posts all got me feeling very emotional. Then I thought about Sunshine's reminder of the 'Split Self'. That's what they all have in common. They are split selves. They do what they feel is 'right', what is 'expected'. These are partners that are not leading authentic lives, so A's are a perfect remedy to them. They get to live the fantasy of who they would be if only they could shed the short socks and be who 'they' want to be, not who 'they' are expected to be. So rather than stay in a life they are not happy with and lump it because it's the choice they've made (I'm sorry, but any couple finding themselves in an affair are not ok, no matter how much they want to project the responsibility onto anyone but themselves), they seek out an AP.

 

It's tragic really, as most of the AP's on these boards seem as though they were fairly vulnerable at the point of the A start up. I am in no way excusing us from the roles we play as OW/OM. Merely thinking how unfortunate it is that we have had our lives infected by adults who are really still little children inside. I wonder if that's what keeps some of us in the game? Seeing the vulnerable, unhealed child side of them.

 

Just some of the thoughts swimming around my mind.

[Rea]

So basically breaking NC. Isn't that a bit like pain shopping?

 

Not if you use it to stop the shakes and going all out for an overdose fix that leaves you right where you don't want to be, back in physical contact, later feeling crap about yourself because you have, yet again weakened and submitted to the PA.

 

I think it can depend hugely on how the PA ended. Was it mutual or one sided...

Edited July 5, 2016 by Rea
Typo's

[Lobe]

Not if you use it to stop the shakes and going all out for an overdose fix that leaves you right where you don't want to be, back in physical contact, later feeling crap about yourself because you have, yet again weakened and submitted to the PA.

 

I think it can depend hugely on how the PA ended. Was it mutual or one sided...

 

I suppose. I just know that eery time I am tempted to go read xOW's blog, no good comes of it lol

[Lostgirl186]

I think I can I think I can... Hour and a half left of this workday... And all of a sudden I'm smothering...clammy and sick.

 

Rumblefish and our other Men on the thread- history shows amongst us all, women tend to be be weaker sex when it comes to contacting the AP first... Why do you think that is? Is it bc we have shown that we usually do, therefore the male waits on it?

 

I'm over here feeling like I'm going to pass out and I would venture to say he is probably relieved I haven't reached out to him today, if he's noticed at all. Why oh why does this bother me so bad

[Rea]

I suppose. I just know that eery time I am tempted to go read xOW's blog, no good comes of it lol

 

Now that made me me laugh ?

[rumblefish12]

I think I can I think I can... Hour and a half left of this workday...

 

LG - I'm traveling today and will respond to your questions but at least let me say don't beat yourself up about how you're feeling. It's hardcore withdrawal. I've been there and still feel it at times. We're all just trying our best. You're doing great, no matter what happens keep trying because I think you know what is best for you in the long run. And I bet that's become more clear hanging around LS.

 

When a drunk comes into AA they say, "you don't know it yet but we are about to ruin drinking for you. Because a belly full of booze and a head full of AA is no fun." LOL

 

Keep trying LG. You're doing great.

[Outofmysystem]

Lostgirl, I'm not going to be much help because the roles are reversed in my case.....I feel just like you, and she acts like most of the MM on here....dam it!....lol.....

 

All I can say, is hang in there.....I talked to a mutual friend and co-worker that knew us very well and know the situation now from me telling her months ago (xMOW doesn't know I told her) and she helps me with me therapy, bitching sessions.....nothing I said came as a shock by the way as everyone we worked with assumed we were seeing each other anyway.....but talking about it to her helps....she also had an A a long time ago so she can relate.....

 

So advice for both of us, grin a bear it.....and tell us if you'd like, you'll get all the support from me with no judgment whatever you do......I feel you!

[Lostgirl186]

LG - I'm traveling today and will respond to your questions but at least let me say don't beat yourself up about how you're feeling. It's hardcore withdrawal. I've been there and still feel it at times. We're all just trying our best. You're doing great, no matter what happens keep trying because I think you know what is best for you in the long run. And I bet that's become more clear hanging around LS.

 

When a drunk comes into AA they say, "you don't know it yet but we are about to ruin drinking for you. Because a belly full of booze and a head full of AA is no fun." LOL

 

Keep trying LG. You're doing great.

 

The morning seemed ok... The afternoon was turmoil and it's all I've thought about since I got home... 4 mile run couldn't even clear my head. safe travels rumble fish , thanks for the encouragement

[Lostgirl186]

Lostgirl, I'm not going to be much help because the roles are reversed in my case.....I feel just like you, and she acts like most of the MM on here....dam it!....lol.....

 

All I can say, is hang in there.....I talked to a mutual friend and co-worker that knew us very well and know the situation now from me telling her months ago (xMOW doesn't know I told her) and she helps me with me therapy, bitching sessions.....nothing I said came as a shock by the way as everyone we worked with assumed we were seeing each other anyway.....but talking about it to her helps....she also had an A a long time ago so she can relate.....

 

So advice for both of us, grin a bear it.....and tell us if you'd like, you'll get all the support from me with no judgment whatever you do......I feel you!

 

Whew, rough stuff.. It's like I said before, the hardest part is my mind playing tricks "if I text him, will he reply? Will he be sorry for being an ass or still be resilient that his ego is in check and his wants are worth the risk." I'm so afraid I will cave tomorrow

[ZBA]

Hi guys, sorry, I wanted to reply sooner today, but I hit an extremely low point and had to be with a friend.

 

LOSTGIRL: how did you fare today? I could tell you were paining to reach out to him by the end of the day. Side note... earlier today, the way you described that feeling like you might explode until you reach out and finally hear back to release the pressure - you could have taken the words right out of my mouth. Crazy. I get the same intense (and unbearable) buildup. Did you wind up writing or no?

 

 

SUNSHINE: Your comment about him wearing the shirt as a way to "keep you close but not close"... ugh. Yes. Yes, exactly that, and it breaks my heart. And you're right, the silence hurts me more than anything (esp since he said he could never do that). At least if he'd said he can't talk anymore... it would hurt, but I would at least know. I do agree with you, I know he's in pain too. Not only has he said it, anyone can see it.

 

 

LOBE: I can't disagree with your assessment. If true NC is not even checking social media or chat apps, I have failed miserably on that front. The longer we go without talking, the more urgently I feel the need to search for a social media post or login timestamp on our chat app. I'm doing this to myself, I know. "Pain shopping," indeed

 

 

REA and OUT, how was the rest of the day for you both?

 

 

MY OWN UPDATE: the need to reach out became too unbearable and I wrote to him on our chat app, asking if he has time for a call today. After hitting send I felt a temporary release/relief from knowing I might hear back. He keeps the notifications turned off, so it's a waiting game until he logs in. Half the day later, he still hasn't opened the message or even logged in.

 

 

Shortly after I messaged him, I opened my social media feed and his FIRST POST in over a year was the very first thing on my feed. It mentioned how it has been a year since he posted, he's had some ups but probably more downs (a reference to our D-Day, amongst other things), but now he's "back on it" and mentioned being focused on his new goal. A goal of competing again in the sport thru which we met. He said he'd found his motivation again and it sounded positive. Along with the post was a selfie where he had a half (barely there) smile, but it was a really, really sad-looking smile. The post, along with the photo, gutted me for some reason. Guess it was the idea of him focusing on something new - while it's very positive and I WANT him to feel happy, it underscored the feeling that he must really be moving past me. Idk. Happy for him, but hurt for me, I guess you could say. If that even makes sense.

[Chica80]

Whew, rough stuff.. It's like I said before, the hardest part is my mind playing tricks "if I text him, will he reply? Will he be sorry for being an ass or still be resilient that his ego is in check and his wants are worth the risk." I'm so afraid I will cave tomorrow

 

You made it one day so far.....take it one day at a time.

[Chica80]

Our posts all got me feeling very emotional. Then I thought about Sunshine's reminder of the 'Split Self'. That's what they all have in common. They are split selves. They do what they feel is 'right', what is 'expected'. These are partners that are not leading authentic lives, so A's are a perfect remedy to them. They get to live the fantasy of who they would be if only they could shed the short socks and be who 'they' want to be, not who 'they' are expected to be. So rather than stay in a life they are not happy with and lump it because it's the choice they've made (I'm sorry, but any couple finding themselves in an affair are not ok, no matter how much they want to project the responsibility onto anyone but themselves), they seek out an AP.

 

It's tragic really, as most of the AP's on these boards seem as though they were fairly vulnerable at the point of the A start up. I am in no way excusing us from the roles we play as OW/OM. Merely thinking how unfortunate it is that we have had our lives infected by adults who are really still little children inside. I wonder if that's what keeps some of us in the game? Seeing the vulnerable, unhealed child side of them.

 

Just some of the thoughts swimming around my mind.

 

REA I love what you said here!!! Definitely inner child. I know I have an inner child for sure that is hurt and needs love. Yes in a way I want to "take care" of him and when he is sad or having a bad day I want to be there. That's not my place though...is what I try to remind myself. But not always so easy...

[Lostgirl186]

Hi guys, sorry, I wanted to reply sooner today, but I hit an extremely low point and had to be with a friend.

 

LOSTGIRL: how did you fare today? I could tell you were paining to reach out to him by the end of the day. Side note... earlier today, the way you described that feeling like you might explode until you reach out and finally hear back to release the pressure - you could have taken the words right out of my mouth. Crazy. I get the same intense (and unbearable) buildup. Did you wind up writing or no?

 

 

SUNSHINE: Your comment about him wearing the shirt as a way to "keep you close but not close"... ugh. Yes. Yes, exactly that, and it breaks my heart. And you're right, the silence hurts me more than anything (esp since he said he could never do that). At least if he'd said he can't talk anymore... it would hurt, but I would at least know. I do agree with you, I know he's in pain too. Not only has he said it, anyone can see it.

 

 

LOBE: I can't disagree with your assessment. If true NC is not even checking social media or chat apps, I have failed miserably on that front. The longer we go without talking, the more urgently I feel the need to search for a social media post or login timestamp on our chat app. I'm doing this to myself, I know. "Pain shopping," indeed

 

 

REA and OUT, how was the rest of the day for you both?

 

 

MY OWN UPDATE: the need to reach out became too unbearable and I wrote to him on our chat app, asking if he has time for a call today. After hitting send I felt a temporary release/relief from knowing I might hear back. He keeps the notifications turned off, so it's a waiting game until he logs in. Half the day later, he still hasn't opened the message or even logged in.

 

 

Shortly after I messaged him, I opened my social media feed and his FIRST POST in over a year was the very first thing on my feed. It mentioned how it has been a year since he posted, he's had some ups but probably more downs (a reference to our D-Day, amongst other things), but now he's "back on it" and mentioned being focused on his new goal. A goal of competing again in the sport thru which we met. He said he'd found his motivation again and it sounded positive. Along with the post was a selfie where he had a half (barely there) smile, but it was a really, really sad-looking smile. The post, along with the photo, gutted me for some reason. Guess it was the idea of him focusing on something new - while it's very positive and I WANT him to feel happy, it underscored the feeling that he must really be moving past me. Idk. Happy for him, but hurt for me, I guess you could say. If that even makes sense.

 

 

I held strong yesterday... But I don't know if I'm going to make it today. It's only an hour into an 8 hour day and I'm struggling not to write him. And the sad part is I know that he won't be receptive- he will either not reply or be cold if I do and it will hurt worse.

 

Did you feel better/worse in the long run after reaching out yesterday?

[AutumnMoon]

We had one discussion about ending things. He brought it up after we had both been getting to in over our heads.. Was a year in and lasted 6 weeks before he contacted me and we started up again. We are along 4 years in now.

[Rea]

REA I love what you said here!!! Definitely inner child. I know I have an inner child for sure that is hurt and needs love. Yes in a way I want to "take care" of him and when he is sad or having a bad day I want to be there. That's not my place though...is what I try to remind myself. But not always so easy...

 

This is tough. To be honest it's whoever's place he chooses who will be the one to be there for him if that's what you are happy with. A's are so, so very complex. I know that xMM has confided in me about stuff he would NEVER talk through with his wife. Really complex, personal stuff involving their immediate family. If he did, there'd be no need to waste time offloading on me. But then here we go again with the inner split self and how he can't stand up for the life he wants, but he's so busy being the perfect Dr, the perfect H, the perfect, father, the perfect son, uncle, nephew, friend... What a smoke screen for the reality he really feels.

 

I have seen him end up torturing himself over us. Caught between what he wants to do and doing the 'right' thing, weighing up the emotional cost on the lives of all involved.

 

I caved yesterday and text him. Wanted to kick myself afterwards. Just don't know why I did it. I was doing so well and he's away until Sunday. I don't text anything heavy, more how well I am doing, which in hindsight probably interprets into "I miss you so much, I'm desperate to see you!"

OMG, I'm such an idiot!!!!

 

Thinking about it...maybe that's why I did contact him, because I know it's extremely unlikely that he will respond when he's with BW. I doubt I'll hear back until next week, when I am hopefully past forgiving him.

 

 

I hope everyone is having a positive day!

[Chica80]

This is tough. To be honest it's whoever's place he chooses who will be the one to be there for him if that's what you are happy with. A's are so, so very complex......But then here we go again with the inner split self and how he can't stand up for the life he wants, but he's so busy being the perfect Dr, the perfect H, the perfect, father, the perfect son, uncle, nephew, friend... What a smoke screen for the reality he really feels.

 

I have seen him end up torturing himself over us. Caught between what he wants to do and doing the 'right' thing, weighing up the emotional cost on the lives of all

 

 

Yes this is how I feel too....love does not conquer all. It does not fix everything. So I understand why we can't be together. It's not an excuse or lie. I understand. It doesn't relieve the pain the wanting the selfishness of it all.

 

It's the only way I can understand or make sense of things. There's been times we've been all together at the same party etc. He's cautious of what he does how he behaves, to not hurt my feelings. Because I can see how it affects him hurts him as well.

 

Not so black and white.....it should be but not.

[ZBA]

I held strong yesterday... But I don't know if I'm going to make it today. It's only an hour into an 8 hour day and I'm struggling not to write him. And the sad part is I know that he won't be receptive- he will either not reply or be cold if I do and it will hurt worse.

 

Did you feel better/worse in the long run after reaching out yesterday?

 

LOSTGIRL...first and foremost - let's dissect how you feel. You're dying to contact MM today (which I can relate to constantly). You know he won't be receptive or will simply give you a cold tone. So let's try to understand... what is it that still draws you to want to reach out? Do you know what you seek or hope for, or is it inexplicable? Is it merely wanting to hear his voice? To feel connected? Does some part of you wish that he would say something to validate that what you've shared is real? Is he at least somewhat kind toward you whenever you guys DO speak? ZERO criticism and judgment whatsoever, I just want to break down and understand what you're thinking, and maybe also help you see your own thought process as well. Did you reach out today already?

[Chica80]

LOSTGIRL...first and foremost - let's dissect how you feel. You're dying to contact MM today (which I can relate to constantly). You know he won't be receptive or will simply give you a cold tone. So let's try to understand... what is it that still draws you to want to reach out? Do you know what you seek or hope for, or is it inexplicable? Is it merely wanting to hear his voice? To feel connected? Does some part of you wish that he would say something to validate that what you've shared is real? Is he at least somewhat kind toward you whenever you guys DO speak? ZERO criticism and judgment whatsoever, I just want to break down and understand what you're thinking, and maybe also help you see your own thought process as well. Did you reach out today already?

 

 

Good questions!

[ZBA]

And LOSTGIRL, to answer your question: initially, I felt a slight release because writing him opened up the hope that I might hear back. Then, I saw his social media post about focusing on new goals and my spirits plummeted - hard and fast, to new lows.

 

He finally read my message late last night—and replied that we would talk the next day (today). This morning I woke up to a text from him saying to call him in half an hour. Last phone call was 2.5 weeks ago. My heart raced; I was nervous. We wound up speaking on the phone for 1 hour and 15 minutes. As soon as we were on the line, our connection felt natural again—my fears were temporarily assuaged and it nearly felt like we hadn't gone for a stretch of nearly zero contact (although we did discuss that, too). It's like that "hit" from a drug you mentioned, LOSTGIRL - I calmed down a bit.

 

We talked about EVERYTHING. Synopsis: Things at home have gotten even worse for him now...he gave examples of what's been happening with his BS and why he hasn't reached out to me at all. There was no lying, no faking, no bullish**. He said it like it is, and he was in extreme pain. My heart broke for him. We both shed tears. Both said we miss and love each other. He said he honestly doesn't know what the future holds in terms of a friendship between us, but he hopes it's possible. I pointed out that I NEVER put pressure on him thru our whole relationship (which he agreed), but that I always believed he'd never cut me off without warning (which is what he did during our recent NC). This brought him to make a promise. He said that even if I don't hear from him at times, to please know that he DOES want to talk, but it's not always possible. So his promise was: "Let's do this. If the day ever comes that I can't talk to you anymore, for any reason, I WILL tell you myself. Unless it comes to that, I DO still want us to talk, and we will when it's possible. Please know that. Believe it. Write it down so you don't forget. If it comes down to it, I won't ever end our contact without telling you, and the same goes for you with me." (*Side note: I am okay with not being able to talk all the time...we never future faked or said we wanted to leave our marriages for each other.)

 

Basically, it'll be LC for the time being. Which is what I wanted because I shatter when we don't talk at all. I realize some will judge me harshly, but I KNOW that NC, at least at this point, does not work for me.

 

Last note... and you guys may appreciate this since I've mentioned it here. He said, "You think just because I'm not reaching out, it's easy for me? It's the opposite. I feel awful and I want to talk to you every single day. I see _____ (a gift I once gave him) every day, and every single time, I think of you. Each time I see _____ (another reference to another shared memory), I f'ing think of you. And this weekend, I wore the shirt you bought me for my birthday. Believe me, I thought of you the whole time I wore it. This is all so damn hard. I want to call you every day." His voice shook.

 

There was obviously much more to our talk. I'm okay right now. Sad still, but definitely better, and I can function and focus on other things a bit more. I know if I want to reach out, I can, and he'll do the same. It's something.

[ladydesigner]

Just curious for all of you in LC vs NC I keep reading that the extra hit keeps you satisfied until the next one, but does it really? Doesn't it keep things in a suspension of disbelief?

 

I am a fMOW it just about killed me being in LC. I never could move on or heal because I needed that hit to feel okay. It wasn't until I went NC (and it was painful and I did lose him as a friend) that I began to heal from the A and from missing xOM.

[ZBA]

Just curious for all of you in LC vs NC I keep reading that the extra hit keeps you satisfied until the next one, but does it really? Doesn't it keep things in a suspension of disbelief?

 

I am a fMOW it just about killed me being in LC. I never could move on or heal because I needed that hit to feel okay. It wasn't until I went NC (and it was painful and I did lose him as a friend) that I began to heal from the A and from missing xOM.

 

It could be a personality thing? I'm really not sure - I'm still trying to understand it myself. Something about knowing contact is possible helps me function. When we were NC, I couldn't focus on anything else, and I became obsessed with scouring social media. After speaking today and agreeing to LC, I've been able to get actual work done, and plan the rest of my day.

 

Have I moved on from him? No, obviously not. I admit that readily.

 

On the flipside, can I ask you how much NC it took for you to stop feeling miserable and move forward? I know it's different for everyone, I'm just curious. During my brief experience with it, I felt like I was in a tunnel that had no opening on the other end.

[ladydesigner]

On the flipside, can I ask you how much NC it took for you to stop feeling miserable and move forward? I know it's different for everyone, I'm just curious. During my brief experience with it, I felt like I was in a tunnel that had no opening on the other end.

 

It took me 1 year of complete NC to reach indifference. I am very happy I went NC it sure helped me to move on. It was not easy AT ALL but possible.