"Destabilization Phase" and your thoughts and experience

[Chica80]

That is basically it in a nutshell, correct. I am not really sure why he wants to be friends now but my guy friend who knows him and this saga said he is keeping me at arm's length but making sure I am not actually gone. I guess he is not sure what will happen in his own life. Well, I am making that decision for him.

 

 

So most of these guys, they are having an A to make their marriage workable, not the other way around.

 

THIS is what I have come to understand, at least in my situation. The A is not a reflection of the BS or of their relationship. I don't doubt he loves her. I don't doubt that he is happy. The A is a reflection of him, not because the spouse is lacking but because he is lacking.

 

He is not an emotional person. Very logical all decisions are, for him. I am not. Its like he is all logic I am all passion. She is a logical choice. That is not meant in a hurtful way its just how I see it. From knowing him, from meeting her from seeing them together.

 

When were together he was allowed to be a different type of person. Someone he can not be anywhere else in his life. He is that calming force the one everyone goes to for their problems. AT work at home his family.

 

What do I bring him: support I listen to him I encourage him when he's had a rough day or things go bad at wrk. I nurture, I'm a mom also a caretaker by personality. My profession and the people I love, I love to cook for others and take care of them etc. Sex yes lets not forget that. it is intense!! We have only had "actual sex" intercourse a handful of times. It's usually always pleasing eachother. And we are playful in a childish way.

He is not someone who likes conflict. That is one of the only things he said to me that they don't argue, at all never. Which I thought strange you are humans you have emotions you must get mad at eachother or at least upset at one another from time to time.

Because WE he and I certainly argue.

 

I guess my point in all of this long post is. Two things

1. He compartmentalizes because he doesn't know any other way. It's not a reflection on her or their relationship but him. So yes I totally make it stable (that only last for so long because I will not stay in "my box")

 

2. I am not perfect I have flaws and things I need to work on. BUT I have a lot to give too. All the things I mentioned all the things that make me "worthy" that I am wasting away on someone who is not totally available.

[ladydesigner]

THIS is what I have come to understand, at least in my situation. The A is not a reflection of the BS or of their relationship. I don't doubt he loves her. I don't doubt that he is happy. The A is a reflection of him, not because the spouse is lacking but because he is lacking.

 

He is not an emotional person. Very logical all decisions are, for him. I am not. Its like he is all logic I am all passion. She is a logical choice. That is not meant in a hurtful way its just how I see it. From knowing him, from meeting her from seeing them together.

 

When were together he was allowed to be a different type of person. Someone he can not be anywhere else in his life. He is that calming force the one everyone goes to for their problems. AT work at home his family.

 

What do I bring him: support I listen to him I encourage him when he's had a rough day or things go bad at wrk. I nurture, I'm a mom also a caretaker by personality. My profession and the people I love, I love to cook for others and take care of them etc. Sex yes lets not forget that. it is intense!! We have only had "actual sex" intercourse a handful of times. It's usually always pleasing eachother. And we are playful in a childish way.

He is not someone who likes conflict. That is one of the only things he said to me that they don't argue, at all never. Which I thought strange you are humans you have emotions you must get mad at eachother or at least upset at one another from time to time.

Because WE he and I certainly argue.

 

I guess my point in all of this long post is. Two things

1. He compartmentalizes because he doesn't know any other way. It's not a reflection on her or their relationship but him. So yes I totally make it stable (that only last for so long because I will not stay in "my box")

 

2. I am not perfect I have flaws and things I need to work on. BUT I have a lot to give too. All the things I mentioned all the things that make me "worthy" that I am wasting away on someone who is not totally available.

 

Bingo on the money! I highlighted his flaws that most likely led to his A.

Edited August 9, 2016 by ladydesigner

[Chica80]

She's innocent, I can't hurt her intentionally. I know I have been doing that by having an affair with her fiancé, but she doesn't know. I can't ruin her life like that.

 

Ronnie I totally hear what you are saying. It seems spiteful It seems like you want revenge. But Ronnie you have been married. I have been married. Do you remember thinking you were going to spend your life with this person? The hopes you had wishes. She has a right to make a choice to know who she is marrying.

 

I may sound like a hypocrite, being I didn't tell MM fiancé. But I wish I had, or someone had. I never planned to continue after they were married. That was going to be my stopping point. He didn't either. Here is the one thing I see different. Neither of us planned to continue. BUT the last time you saw him HE started kissing you!!! He told you he didn't want to let you go....That is the difference I see. He wants both and he will for as long as he can.

[Ronnie33]

Ronnie I totally hear what you are saying. It seems spiteful It seems like you want revenge. But Ronnie you have been married. I have been married. Do you remember thinking you were going to spend your life with this person? The hopes you had wishes. She has a right to make a choice to know who she is marrying.

 

I may sound like a hypocrite, being I didn't tell MM fiancé. But I wish I had, or someone had. I never planned to continue after they were married. That was going to be my stopping point. He didn't either. Here is the one thing I see different. Neither of us planned to continue. BUT the last time you saw him HE started kissing you!!! He told you he didn't want to let you go....That is the difference I see. He wants both and he will for as long as he can.

 

I get what you are saying, but whether you did or didn't plan on it, you still did.

[Chica80]

Bingo on the money! I highlighted his flaws that most likely led to his A.

 

 

Yes. Whenever we talked he always said he couldn't understand how he could do this. He hates himself for who he has become.

I had watched a talk by Esther Perel on TED talks. I don't think all people who have A are "bad". Its a coping mechanism An awful coping mechanism but it is.

[MidnightBlue1980]

THIS is what I have come to understand, at least in my situation. The A is not a reflection of the BS or of their relationship. I don't doubt he loves her. I don't doubt that he is happy. The A is a reflection of him, not because the spouse is lacking but because he is lacking.

 

He is not an emotional person. Very logical all decisions are, for him. I am not. Its like he is all logic I am all passion. She is a logical choice. That is not meant in a hurtful way its just how I see it. From knowing him, from meeting her from seeing them together.

 

When were together he was allowed to be a different type of person. Someone he can not be anywhere else in his life. He is that calming force the one everyone goes to for their problems. AT work at home his family.

 

What do I bring him: support I listen to him I encourage him when he's had a rough day or things go bad at wrk. I nurture, I'm a mom also a caretaker by personality. My profession and the people I love, I love to cook for others and take care of them etc. Sex yes lets not forget that. it is intense!! We have only had "actual sex" intercourse a handful of times. It's usually always pleasing eachother. And we are playful in a childish way.

He is not someone who likes conflict. That is one of the only things he said to me that they don't argue, at all never. Which I thought strange you are humans you have emotions you must get mad at eachother or at least upset at one another from time to time.

Because WE he and I certainly argue.

 

I guess my point in all of this long post is. Two things

1. He compartmentalizes because he doesn't know any other way. It's not a reflection on her or their relationship but him. So yes I totally make it stable (that only last for so long because I will not stay in "my box")

 

2. I am not perfect I have flaws and things I need to work on. BUT I have a lot to give too. All the things I mentioned all the things that make me "worthy" that I am wasting away on someone who is not totally available.

 

You described xMM in your post. He and his wife seem pretty well matched in that they both are okay with him making all the decisions, doing what he wants to do, spending a lot of time in the same house but not together and performing stereotypical gender roles.

 

She did not go to college, has no ambition other than to be a mom to their child, is as he puts it "short, overweight and not attractive but those things did not matter to me, I'm just being matter of fact". They watch a lot of TV in separate rooms, do family stuff, he works in the family business and she sits on a chair in his office a few days a week, doing what I never understood.

 

I've met her and there is not a lot there but it works for him as she does not challenge him. When they met he turned in her car for a more economic model, paid off her credit cards and monitors her spending. He yells at her a lot and his issues with her are related to her cooking and housecleaning skills, not about the lack of a relationship. In short, he's happy there.

 

I am nothing like that. I do not watch TV. H and I spend any nonworking time together. I own a business. I tower over MM physically - which is a turnoff to me btw, I'm in decent shape, I am a mom but it does not define me. It is very difficult to tell me what to do unless you are paying me money. I do not cook or clean (though I am now working on the cleaning part per my husbands request). It would be a bad match. I'm the literal and figurative opposite of his W.

 

I'm not really sure what xMM sees in me, since he was not interested in a real relationship, I assume its purely physical and he liked the attention. He is also not emotional at all. He buries it, or its simply not there. But he was fine with a LTA with me. I was the one who was too emotional. I blew it up.

Edited August 9, 2016 by MidnightBlue1980

[ladydesigner]

Yes. Whenever we talked he always said he couldn't understand how he could do this. He hates himself for who he has become.

I had watched a talk by Esther Perel on TED talks. I don't think all people who have A are "bad". Its a coping mechanism An awful coping mechanism but it is.

 

Absolutely agree! It is a bad coping mechanism. The WS's who do this habitually are the definition of insanity!

 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Chica80]

I get what you are saying, but whether you did or didn't plan on it, you still did.

 

You are right I did. I continued. And many times I have thought to myself the only way this will ever end is DDAY. He has no accountability.

 

We keep coming back to eachother. I think for him the reasons I stated above in my other post. For me my own warped issues I am dealing with. Ronnie I am not blaming him I am not saying it is all his my MM fault. I chose to be in it to still continue.

 

Ive read you're story. You and I have many similarities. So I can tell you I understand you I really do. I think more than most. So please know I am not coming from a place of judgement. Like midnight said yesterday " I am a year ahead of you"

[ladydesigner]

You described xMM in your post. He and his wife seem pretty well matched in that they both are okay with him making all the decisions, doing what he wants to do, spending a lot of time in the same house but not together and performing stereotypical gender roles.

 

She did not go to college, has no ambition other than to be a mom to their child, is as he puts it "short, overweight and not attractive but those things did not matter to me, I'm just being matter of fact". They watch a lot of TV in separate rooms, do family stuff, he works in the family business and she sits on a chair in his office a few days a week, doing what I never understood.

 

I've met her and there is not a lot there but it works for him as she does not challenge him. When they met he turned in her car for a more economic model, paid off her credit cards and monitors her spending. He yells at her a lot and his issues with her are related to her cooking and housecleaning skills, not about the lack of a relationship. In short, he's happy there.

 

I am nothing like that. I do not watch TV. H and I spend any nonworking time together. I own a business. I tower over MM physically - which is a turnoff to me btw, I'm in decent shape, I am a mom but it does not define me. It is very difficult to tell me what to do unless you are paying me money. I do not cook or clean (though I am now working on the cleaning part per my husbands request). It would be a bad match. I'm the literal and figurative opposite of his W.

 

I'm not really sure what xMM sees in me, since he was not interested in a real relationship, I assume its purely physical and he liked the attention. He is also not emotional at all. He buries it, or its simply not there. But he was fine with a LTA with me. I was the one who was too emotional. I blew it up.

 

Turn it around, what is that you see in xMM ? Could you imagine if you did have a relationship with him (outside of the A)? He would probably drive you crazy with his impossible ideas of how clean a house should be or whatever other petty thing he can come up with.

[Chica80]

Absolutely agree! It is a bad coping mechanism. The WS's who do this habitually are the definition of insanity!

 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

HAHAHA I love that quote ive heard it before and yes!!!!

[imperfectangel]

Ronnie please don't break NC!!! I was doing so well then I responded to mm. He turned up at my house which is something I never thought would happen (3 hour trip) and bam we are back in it.

 

I am considering going dark again though. He's currently on holiday waiting for his family man of the year award and I'm about to die. It's horrible. Don't go back nothing will change, at least for the long term

[Chica80]

 

I am considering going dark again though. He's currently on holiday waiting for his family man of the year award and I'm about to die. It's horrible.

 

Is this for real... "family man of the year"

 

Ya that's awful!!

[Anne5113]

I have been lurking on LS for a while, and never posted. This thread has been amazing. With the support you have given each other, I have found support in reading. I have been involved with a MM for over 2 years, and support is scarce. Lobe, I find your input especially encouraging and I admire your ability to reach out and give OW advice. Although the negative opinions are very well deserved, it's helps that a BS is cheering OW on and telling them they deserve better. Thank you. I am not in NC, but I did find something that worked for me so I could detach emotionally from MM. I know I'm still very weak, and I am tip toeing out of this mess so I won't get love bombed and a guilt trip that knocks me back down. I am relocating soon, and welcome the upcoming distance from this man. He is in false reconciliation so he has a lot of limitations. Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know that your journeys are bigger than just you, and even on days you feel weak, you are giving others strength!

[jenkins95]

Ronnie please don't break NC!!! I was doing so well then I responded to mm. He turned up at my house which is something I never thought would happen (3 hour trip) and bam we are back in it.

 

I am considering going dark again though. He's currently on holiday waiting for his family man of the year award and I'm about to die. It's horrible. Don't go back nothing will change, at least for the long term

 

Totally agree with imperfect angel. Don't break it - it's guaranteed to set you back. NC is ridiculously tough, but it's just about the only almost certain way to break your addiction and become free again.

 

We're here for you Ronnie. Post to us, not him

[Chica80]

I have been lurking on LS for a while, and never posted. This thread has been amazing. With the support you have given each other, I have found support in reading. I have been involved with a MM for over 2 years, and support is scarce. Lobe, I find your input especially encouraging and I admire your ability to reach out and give OW advice. Although the negative opinions are very well deserved, it's helps that a BS is cheering OW on and telling them they deserve better. Thank you. I am not in NC, but I did find something that worked for me so I could detach emotionally from MM. I know I'm still very weak, and I am tip toeing out of this mess so I won't get love bombed and a guilt trip that knocks me back down. I am relocating soon, and welcome the upcoming distance from this man. He is in false reconciliation so he has a lot of limitations. Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know that your journeys are bigger than just you, and even on days you feel weak, you are giving others strength!

 

One day at a time.

[Adoraxx]

I have been lurking on LS for a while, and never posted. This thread has been amazing. With the support you have given each other, I have found support in reading. I have been involved with a MM for over 2 years, and support is scarce. Lobe, I find your input especially encouraging and I admire your ability to reach out and give OW advice. Although the negative opinions are very well deserved, it's helps that a BS is cheering OW on and telling them they deserve better. Thank you. I am not in NC, but I did find something that worked for me so I could detach emotionally from MM. I know I'm still very weak, and I am tip toeing out of this mess so I won't get love bombed and a guilt trip that knocks me back down. I am relocating soon, and welcome the upcoming distance from this man. He is in false reconciliation so he has a lot of limitations. Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know that your journeys are bigger than just you, and even on days you feel weak, you are giving others strength!

 

Hi Anne!! I'm so happy for you that you'll be relocating SOON!!! Me too and I'm very much looking forward to it. I hope it will be a big step forward

[Chica80]

So I've been NC for 4 days. Since fri since I blew up. But now the anger has subsided...I have to see him at wrk tomorrow. Feeling a lil anxious.

 

I don't want to be angry sad or happy. Just indifferent. I'm there to work and get my job done....

 

Fingers crossed wish me luck...

[Lobe]

I don't want to be angry sad or happy. Just indifferent.

 

Then I wish for you indifference.

[Anne5113]

Hi Anne!! I'm so happy for you that you'll be relocating SOON!!! Me too and I'm very much looking forward to it. I hope it will be a big step forward

 

 

I am glad that you are looking forward to your upcoming move, and I hope that it will a big step forward to happiness and healing. I am apprehensive about so much change, but what once held me back is motivation to move forward. I got involved with MM soon after getting out of my physically & emotionally abusive marriage, and I think I am beginning to see some positive things I can take from this awful life "lesson".

[MidnightBlue1980]

So I've been NC for 4 days. Since fri since I blew up. But now the anger has subsided...I have to see him at wrk tomorrow. Feeling a lil anxious.

 

I don't want to be angry sad or happy. Just indifferent. I'm there to work and get my job done....

 

Fingers crossed wish me luck...

 

I wish you luck. I am coming to the conclusion that for me, it's impossible for me to get to that point of indifference. I had gone two weeks without seeing him and successfully ignored his "checking in" emails. I was feeling better, things were calm at home. Then I had to see him yesterday and he kept trying to talk to me, trying to be my friend. Meanwhile, he is still pretending that he is considering leaving when his membership is up, and I am aware that he is taking over my role in the fall, I am aware he is actively lying to me and he is not going anywhere.

 

He thinks I am so stupid. He thinks he can say whatever, do whatever, nice one day, mean the next, I love you one day, I can only be your friend the next. The anger and hatred bubbled inside me. Still I held it together until he emailed me yesterday afternoon. I had assigned him for something for a date in early September and read the assignments yesterday. He requested me now to move his assignment and find a replacement as he will be away, obviously on a nice family outing. It is only my (unpaid) job to do assignments, not replacements and I am certainly not running around, asking 35 people if someone can switch with him. I said, I'll reassign you, just email me the name of the person replacing you.

 

No response. I know him and he was furious. I realized in that second that I was terrified of him, that I had never stood up to him and that is how I got in this mess. I allowed him to manipulate me and push me around. This was the first time I stood up to him and said, no I refuse to accept your behavior. I was so afraid I called another person senior to me and he congratulated me for finally stopping being a pushover.

 

I felt so proud of myself but scared at the same time - scared of what? What could he really do to me? It's nuts, I am aware of that.

 

But I still felt the familiar anger return later and it was there the second I woke up this morning. It is so tiring and draining. I wish I could just let it all go. At this point, I am not wanting to be with him at all, it's more my pride that he started all this and now he is fine and I am not. Why can't I be like, so he used me, who cares.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I have been lurking on LS for a while, and never posted. This thread has been amazing. With the support you have given each other, I have found support in reading. I have been involved with a MM for over 2 years, and support is scarce. Lobe, I find your input especially encouraging and I admire your ability to reach out and give OW advice. Although the negative opinions are very well deserved, it's helps that a BS is cheering OW on and telling them they deserve better. Thank you. I am not in NC, but I did find something that worked for me so I could detach emotionally from MM. I know I'm still very weak, and I am tip toeing out of this mess so I won't get love bombed and a guilt trip that knocks me back down. I am relocating soon, and welcome the upcoming distance from this man. He is in false reconciliation so he has a lot of limitations. Anyway, I just wanted to let you all know that your journeys are bigger than just you, and even on days you feel weak, you are giving others strength!

 

It's good to know this helps other people. Posting does help me. I used to write all this stuff to xMM and look like a crazy person. Now I just look crazy on the internet.

 

I am familiar with false reconciliation. It's a terrible, selfish thing for the person performing it. I assume your MM is pretending to work on his marriage to his W and keeping him around as a friend/backup plan.

 

Moving will help you. I'm moving towards switching locations for my involvement where I see MM in the fall. I used to feel I could never leave as I would never see him again and anything was better than nothing. Slowly that is changing though. I've accepted it is over and I just want to feel better.

[imperfectangel]

Don't be scared of him. As ow we hold way more cards. All it takes is one phone call/text/email and we can expose the hell out of these @":!;&!:! You have way more control over things than you even realise.

 

I wish I could get angry at you and I was doing great. Until I saw him and melted. I wish I could make it to the anger phase but I went straight from missing him to "oh well he's where he wants to be". I didn't really get angry maybe I should

[MidnightBlue1980]

Turn it around, what is that you see in xMM ? Could you imagine if you did have a relationship with him (outside of the A)? He would probably drive you crazy with his impossible ideas of how clean a house should be or whatever other petty thing he can come up with.

 

I've done extensive thinking on this and I know what I saw in him a year ago, what drew me in. However a year later, I see it differently. For example, a year ago, I saw him as strong and now I see him as controlling and domineering - traits which I do not like.

 

A year ago I thought he did something different professionally, I thought we had business qualities in common. I thought he was interested in what I do. A year later I know he was handed a cushy job by his wife's family and he is sexist and believes my husband should take care of me financially. He only pretended to be interested in what I do, he was really only interested in me sexually. His terms of endearment for me - sweet girl, baby, good girl - are not fitting for me and I felt like his dog with the good girl.

 

He takes no responsibility for his health, finances, sexual dysfunction. Its all his wife's fault - she is fat, so he is overweight. She wastes money. She is not trying hard enough in the bedroom. That is not attractive to me. He also yells at her a lot and makes her cry. He's yelled at me a few times too now. Been mean and nasty. Not attractive.

 

So no, I know a relationship would not work. At this point it's my ego and pride and bonding from sexual acts which keep me tied to him and here on LS. I will say though the bonding from sex stuff has really faded as I've not even shook his hand since Dec. There has been zero contact.

 

How do I let go of ego and pride? I guess that is my problem.

 

Thank you for asking Lady Designer.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Don't be scared of him. As ow we hold way more cards. All it takes is one phone call/text/email and we can expose the hell out of these @":!;&!:! You have way more control over things than you even realise.

 

I wish I could get angry at you and I was doing great. Until I saw him and melted. I wish I could make it to the anger phase but I went straight from missing him to "oh well he's where he wants to be". I didn't really get angry maybe I should

 

True. She knows about 2015 but she has no idea what he has been doing in 2016.

 

It's a series of steps and we can go through the stages in a nonlinear mode. Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance. I spent most of my time in Bargaining and Depression for months and months, accepting any friendship he offered me, begging for his love. I also missed him terribly. It's why I could not leave.

 

Your anger will come later, probably. Everyone is different though. I didn't have much denial.

 

I can tell you I do not miss him. I dread seeing him now.

[Grey Cloud]

It's good to know this helps other people. Posting does help me. I used to write all this stuff to xMM and look like a crazy person. Now I just look crazy on the internet.

 

I am familiar with false reconciliation. It's a terrible, selfish thing for the person performing it. I assume your MM is pretending to work on his marriage to his W and keeping him around as a friend/backup plan.

 

Moving will help you. I'm moving towards switching locations for my involvement where I see MM in the fall. I used to feel I could never leave as I would never see him again and anything was better than nothing. Slowly that is changing though. I've accepted it is over and I just want to feel better.

 

I used to think that something was better than nothing. I clung on to LC and the concept of being 'friends' for 5 months. Until I realised he was toxic for me. I have cut him out of my life now completely and am feeling stronger by the day.

 

Think how good you were doing in those 2 weeks where you didn't see him and things were calmer for you at home. Don't let him be a continual disappointment. If you can cut all ties in the fall then that is what you need to do in order to be free.

 

My xMM always gave me the silent treatment when I stood up to him or challenged him. Then ultimately I would end up apologising and saying don't hate me and he would come back saying it's ok just don't be emotional/dramatic/weird. I questioned everything I did (as you have done). It's just not worth the angst. It's about their ego. If you are not pandering to it then you will be it ignored.