"Destabilization Phase" and your thoughts and experience

[Anne5113]

One thing that has occurred to me in reading post by both OW & BW (or OM/BH) is that hands down getting involved with someone unavailable, especially "married unavailable" knowingly is wrong and a great way to emotionally abuse yourself and that's if the BS's hasn't had their world as they know it come crashing down if the affair is discovered. One major difference that many BS's may never have experienced when single is someone going to such lengths to say & do all the things to convince you of their feelings for you. I know that prior to divorce & getting involved with MM, no guy was going to be mentioning the "L" word to get laid with maybe the exception of coaxing a naive girl out of her virginity and even then he didn't keep it up afterwards. Most men in my opinion and experience didn't want to bring on any womanly psycho clinginess, for sex. Maybe a load on the compliments, but love, a future, & having children (I'm pushing 40 & have no children, he knew it was something I was struggling to accept may never happen). These are the men that BW's dealt with when single I am sure (well in a way because they are married to them) but they don't get shown this. There are a lot of things in many situations that are closer to a conman who goes after the rich widow.

 

New Leaf,

 

You are right, no one is a winner. In the end not even MM, in my opinion because he robs himself of real love trying to secure fake love from multiple sources. In my situation, MM did set this all in motion and it was executed at a precise time. In fact, now I can see that he had been "fishing" a couple of times, but even in the worst of my ending marriage I didn't bite. My focus was trying to save the impossible. I trusted him because he had never been inappropriate, unknowing it was me that hadn't been, & I was foolish and clueless about where I was emotionally & psychologically.

Edited August 19, 2016 by Anne5113
Oops! These are NOT* the men that BW's dealt with when single

[MidnightBlue1980]

Interesting that the OW you were in contact with had that perspective.

 

The wife is always going to "win" (except for the very rare cases), but the trouble is it never was a competition to start with. How was the wife ever to know when an affair starts that she is suddenly in competition with another woman? In this regard, I do feel very sorry for the wife.

 

I think a lot of other woman think we must be very special and it must be love for him to go to the lengths of cheating on his wife. That he must be seriously unhappy and wanting to change his life. Wrong!

 

The more I am on LS the more I am realising that it is all about cake eating, ego boosts and how the affair makes him feel about himself. That he can compartmentalise to the point that he can carry on with his home life with his wife much the same as before but have this nice little extra on the side.

 

His family life, his home life and his wife are and will always be the priority, not the OW. A lot of attention is lavished on the OW initially but soon enough the whole push/pull behaviour starts.

 

I was like you, I had this driving compulsion to know why, to figure it all out. To understand why me. I know now I wasnt unique or special. I was just a fun secret distraction until it all got too hard.

 

Editing to add that I sound very bitter when I re-read my post but don't mean to sound like that! I'm just a lot more realistic and a lot more accepting of the situation!

 

Exactly. I agree with everything you wrote. I don't think you sound bitter, you sound very matter-of-fact. In fact, I have a guy friend IRL and I have learned so much about men (and he from me about women, we joke we should write a book). Anyway, he just filed for divorce (no OW) but before he did he asked a ton of men, family, friends, etc. and every single one said, your wife is hot, you have little kids, sure she is a PITA and no sex, just cheat - who has sex with their wives anyway? We all just get someone on the side for fun.

 

I think that sums it up neatly. If you are married and don't sleep with your husband, someone else will. He probably will not leave you for her but by refusing to give your husband sex, you are pretty much guaranteeing heartache for yourself and another woman out there. Eventually someone will show him attention and boom! he will be all over it.

 

I lived this myself on both sides. I had a lot of really valid reasons for barely having sex - babies, work, my weight, tired, the list is long. In the end, someone paid him attention and off he went. H is still here, he just wanted my attention all along. I lived the reverse with xMM, which is why I am on this board. Now he gets it all from his W and I am collateral damage.

 

It probably sounds like I am blaming women, and I'm really not but I have come to learn so much about men, how they think and what they need. They really do not need that much. If you give them sex, feed them, show them attention, do not be mean/ridicule them and basically let them have a beer with a friend, they are generally fine and won't go anywhere. We can't change them. That is just how (most) of them are. I hope men are not offended if they are reading this. I am sure not all fit this mold. It is just my experience.

 

So now IRL when I hear my girlfriends saying how they no longer have sex with their H or its so infrequent and the H volunteers how he doesn't even care anymore, he's given up, he has his work or whatever - I feel mad at my friends because I can't help but think of xMM's wife. If she didn't say she no longer wanted to have sex with him in 2012, in 2015, he never would have been texting me that he loved me, all in an attempt to get sex from some source. Again, not playing a victim. I participated.

 

Again, not really blaming the BS, she had her reasons I am sure, as I had mine and I realize I am comparing men to the family pet, as if they are without control. This is just what I have learned to be (mostly) true. Look where we all are today because of it.

 

Added: for the woman, at least for me, the way my H explains it - if you don't sleep with your H, he pulls back emotionally, the W is then vulnerable and open to attention from other men. Women cheat for attention and love. Men cheat for sex.

 

This does not address the MM who are serial cheaters with multiple women. That is different. Some people are just not meant to be married.

Edited August 19, 2016 by MidnightBlue1980

[Lobe]

On the main page of the post secret website if you scroll all the way to the bottom there is a video. It's 2 up from the video

 

2 up from the video I saw a dog winking in code. Above that was one about a woman stealing toilet paper from hotels so she feels like she is with her married lover... Not sure what I was looking for? lol

[Lobe]

Oh, so much food for thought. I was going to multiquote but then didn't... so if it doesn't flow I admit it's because I am lazy

 

I have a question first, though. Have any of you ever talked with the BS? What was the conversation like? Have any of you ever wanted to talk to the BS? If yes, what did you want to say? If no, why not? I often wish I could talk to the xOW and say look, I don't blame you entirely for what happened and I am sorry for what my husband did to you, but you owe me an apology, so I can have closure, too... I wish she knew that I am not mad at her, that I acknowledge her pain, and that I hope she moves past the hurt and finds happiness with an eligible bachelor.

 

-abrupt change in topic-

 

I would seriously advise before anyone thinks it's as simple as the wife just being like, "Yeah, no more sex, I'm good..." that you remember that the WS claiming to be neglected is at least 50% of the reason sex isn't happening. WHY doesn't she want to have sex with him anymore? Sex starts in the heart and mind for me - if I'm not in the mood, you can a) put me in the mood (I'm easily wooed with sexting and a vigorous massage) or b) be mad at me and go find another hallway to chuck your wiener down. In some marriages, there is a problem that existed before the marriage (mismatched sex drives or unexpressed desires for kink) but I think more often than not it's because after courtship and marriage our lives slowly become more complex, and sex loses its place in line. Sex falls somewhere after go to work, raise the kids, pay the bills, shop for food, make food to eat, save money for retirement and the kids' college funds, clean the house, do the yard work, tend to family commitments, try and have a social life with friends, relax and watch TV... Unless the couple makes a conscious effort to have date night, the marriage WILL start falling apart and sex will be the first thing to go lol

 

-another abrupt change in topic-

 

Reading through the love notes and sexting, seeing the effort he went to to make xOW feel desired, sensing the sexual tension that he created with her, the way he used to create it with me, was infuriating. It wasn't that I was "jealous" of her, I was angry that my husband decided to water her lawn instead of ours, then came back after the affair with the audacity to blame me for him feeling neglected. Seriously, assh*le? What about ME? Once we got married and started having kids, he stopped planning dates or putting any effort whatsoever into us. He didn't plan dates, buy me flowers for no reason, send me silly love notes anymore and I felt neglected and taken for granted. It was always up to me to create "us" time and when I didn't do it as often because he never reciprocated, he felt rejected. So 2 or 3 years of this and he wonders on a Wednesday when he's had 6 beers and springs a woody after he stumbles into bed at 1:30 in the morning why I'm not "putting out" because he managed to slur, "I'm horny - suck my dick..." at me? When we were 20, no kids, and we were both drunk, it was cute and funny. Now we're 40, have bills, careers, debt, mortgages, grown kids, I'm sober, he's drunk, so it's just insensitive and disrespectful.

 

-last abrupt change in topic-

 

I think we've all thought we were head over heels in love with someone, until we weren't. Does it mean the feelings weren't real? No - they absolutely were. It was painful hearing him tell me he "thought" (his word) he was in love with the xOW, more painful and devastating than the sex. But WH says he never saw a "real" future with her. In their future faking, it always involved just the two of them, sex, and alcohol (she drank a lot too from what I understand) - not her kids (she had lost custody of them) and not ours (WH says he never wanted our kids around the xOW - he didn't think it was fair to the kids or me) and not the extended family (never envisioned her sitting at a Christmas dinner with him - he said he would have been too embarrassed and ashamed.) This part of knowing my husband's thoughts is very hard to stomach - how could he treat another human being like that? When the OW ask, "How can you take him back?" some days I don't f*cking know.

 

-closing thought-

 

I think that classic line WSs use "I love my wife I'm just not in love with her anymore..." has an AP equivalent: "I don't love you, I'm just in love with the way you make me feel."

[Cymbeline]

.B] "One major difference that many BS's may never have experienced when single is someone going to such lengths to say & do all the things to convince you of their feelings for you. I know that prior to divorce & getting involved with MM, no guy was going to be mentioning the "L" word to get laid with maybe the exception of coaxing a naive girl out of her virginity and even then he didn't keep it up afterwards. Most men in my opinion and experience didn't want to bring on any womanly psycho clinginess, for sex. Maybe a load on the compliments, but love, a future, & having children (I'm pushing 40 & have no children, he knew it was something I was struggling to accept may never happen). These are the men that BW's dealt with when single I am sure (well in a way because they are married to them) but they don't get shown this. There are a lot of things in many situations that are closer to a conman who goes after the rich widow.[b"

 

I've never seen the amazing 'love bombing' that so many WH drop on their OW described like this before, and it rings so true and clear. I think it's fair to say that many of us BW have been completely bamboozled by the emails sent by our errant partners and can barely conceive that our husbands were capable of writing in such vein. I truly didn't want the unoriginal, puerile drivel to be sent to me but I sure as hell would have liked to receive the enthusiasm that was clearly behind it.

[Lobe]

I think it's fair to say that many of us BW have been completely bamboozled by the emails sent by our errant partners and can barely conceive that our husbands were capable of writing in such vein. I truly didn't want the unoriginal, puerile drivel to be sent to me but I sure as hell would have liked to receive the enthusiasm that was clearly behind it.

 

mic drop

 

~slow clap~

[NewLeaf512]

2 up from the video I saw a dog winking in code. Above that was one about a woman stealing toilet paper from hotels so she feels like she is with her married lover... Not sure what I was looking for? lol

 

torture | PostSecret

[Lobe]

torture | PostSecret

 

See, that's not cool. I could reciprocate my WH's xOW's actions by harassing her back (and I'd be lying if I didn't have a few revenge fantasies) but I don't actually have any need or desire for revenge. NewLeaf, did you ever have a confrontation with the BS?

[NewLeaf512]

Love this post but it's Friday and I'm lazy too so comments in line.

 

Oh, so much food for thought. I was going to multiquote but then didn't... so if it doesn't flow I admit it's because I am lazy

 

I have a question first, though. Have any of you ever talked with the BS? What was the conversation like? Have any of you ever wanted to talk to the BS? If yes, what did you want to say? If no, why not? I often wish I could talk to the xOW and say look, I don't blame you entirely for what happened and I am sorry for what my husband did to you, but you owe me an apology, so I can have closure, too..

 

Yes. I have no closure, and I might have given her an apology if she didn't try to sue me. (Oh BTW We never f@&£3D and your H owes me thousands of dollars) apparently she thought it was a good idea to attempt to bring a frivolous lawsuit against a woman who when she found out MM was actually married never saw him in person again, and at that time was a Barrister of 22 years in the Law Review. Her apology was that I didn't file an action against either one of them. I am more than remorseful and horrified I did that to anyone and man did I want to try to do something but getting whacked with a threat of a lawsuit based on his covering his arse lies kind of made that something I was uninterested In providing

 

 

I would seriously advise before anyone thinks it's as simple as the wife just being like, "Yeah, no more sex, I'm good..." that you remember that the WS claiming to be neglected is at least 50% of the reason sex isn't happening. WHY doesn't she want to have sex with him anymore? Sex starts in the heart and mind for me - if I'm not in the mood, you can a) put me in the mood (I'm easily wooed with sexting and a vigorous massage) or b) be mad at me and go find another hallway to chuck your wiener down. In some marriages, there is a problem that existed before the marriage (mismatched sex drives or unexpressed desires for kink) but I think more often than not it's because after courtship and marriage our lives slowly become more complex, and sex loses its place in line. Sex falls somewhere after go to work, raise the kids, pay the bills, shop for food, make food to eat, save money for retirement and the kids' college funds, clean the house, do the yard work, tend to family commitments, try and have a social life with friends, relax and watch TV... Unless the couple makes a conscious effort to have date night, the marriage WILL start falling apart and sex will be the first thing to go lol

 

 

Reading through the love notes and sexting, seeing the effort he went to to make xOW feel desired, sensing the sexual tension that he created with her, the way he used to create it with me, was infuriating. It wasn't that I was "jealous" of her, I was angry that my husband decided to water her lawn instead of ours, then came back after the affair with the audacity to blame me for him feeling neglected. Seriously, assh*le? What about ME? Once we got married and started having kids, he stopped planning dates or putting any effort whatsoever into us. He didn't plan dates, buy me flowers for no reason, send me silly love notes anymore and I felt neglected and taken for granted. It was always up to me to create "us" time and when I didn't do it as often because he never reciprocated, he felt rejected. So 2 or 3 years of this and he wonders on a Wednesday when he's had 6 beers and springs a woody after he stumbles into bed at 1:30 in the morning why I'm not "putting out" because he managed to slur, "I'm horny - suck my dick..." at me? When we were 20, no kids, and we were both drunk, it was cute and funny. Now we're 40, have bills, careers, debt, mortgages, grown kids, I'm sober, he's drunk, so it's just insensitive and disrespectful.

 

Word.

3 thoughts:

1. This happens in some form to many marriages. To not have it happens both spouses have to make time for/ put effort into intimacy.

2. This is what really happens not what OW is told MM

3. You are very switched on and seem cool. The minute my H told me he was in love with someone else, and then said I'm horny suck me, I'd either throw him out or take my kids and walk out. You deserve better and out of real curiousity... Why do you stay with him?

 

I think we've all thought we were head over heels in love with someone, until we weren't. Does it mean the feelings weren't real? No - they absolutely were. It was painful hearing him tell me he "thought" (his word) he was in love with the xOW, more painful and devastating than the sex. But WH says he never saw a "real" future with her. In their future faking, it always involved just the two of them, sex, and alcohol (she drank a lot too from what I understand) - not her kids (she had lost custody of them) and not ours (WH says he never wanted our kids around the xOW - he didn't think it was fair to the kids or me) and not the extended family (never envisioned her sitting at a Christmas dinner with him - he said he would have been too embarrassed and ashamed.) This part of knowing my husband's thoughts is very hard to stomach - how could he treat another human being like that? When the OW ask, "How can you take him back?" some days I don't f*cking know.

 

[MidnightBlue1980]

Oh, so much food for thought. I was going to multiquote but then didn't... so if it doesn't flow I admit it's because I am lazy

 

I have a question first, though. Have any of you ever talked with the BS? What was the conversation like? Have any of you ever wanted to talk to the BS? If yes, what did you want to say? If no, why not? I often wish I could talk to the xOW and say look, I don't blame you entirely for what happened and I am sorry for what my husband did to you, but you owe me an apology, so I can have closure, too... I wish she knew that I am not mad at her, that I acknowledge her pain, and that I hope she moves past the hurt and finds happiness with an eligible bachelor.

 

-abrupt change in topic-

 

I would seriously advise before anyone thinks it's as simple as the wife just being like, "Yeah, no more sex, I'm good..." that you remember that the WS claiming to be neglected is at least 50% of the reason sex isn't happening. WHY doesn't she want to have sex with him anymore? Sex starts in the heart and mind for me - if I'm not in the mood, you can a) put me in the mood (I'm easily wooed with sexting and a vigorous massage) or b) be mad at me and go find another hallway to chuck your wiener down. In some marriages, there is a problem that existed before the marriage (mismatched sex drives or unexpressed desires for kink) but I think more often than not it's because after courtship and marriage our lives slowly become more complex, and sex loses its place in line. Sex falls somewhere after go to work, raise the kids, pay the bills, shop for food, make food to eat, save money for retirement and the kids' college funds, clean the house, do the yard work, tend to family commitments, try and have a social life with friends, relax and watch TV... Unless the couple makes a conscious effort to have date night, the marriage WILL start falling apart and sex will be the first thing to go lol

 

-another abrupt change in topic-

 

Reading through the love notes and sexting, seeing the effort he went to to make xOW feel desired, sensing the sexual tension that he created with her, the way he used to create it with me, was infuriating. It wasn't that I was "jealous" of her, I was angry that my husband decided to water her lawn instead of ours, then came back after the affair with the audacity to blame me for him feeling neglected. Seriously, assh*le? What about ME? Once we got married and started having kids, he stopped planning dates or putting any effort whatsoever into us. He didn't plan dates, buy me flowers for no reason, send me silly love notes anymore and I felt neglected and taken for granted. It was always up to me to create "us" time and when I didn't do it as often because he never reciprocated, he felt rejected. So 2 or 3 years of this and he wonders on a Wednesday when he's had 6 beers and springs a woody after he stumbles into bed at 1:30 in the morning why I'm not "putting out" because he managed to slur, "I'm horny - suck my dick..." at me? When we were 20, no kids, and we were both drunk, it was cute and funny. Now we're 40, have bills, careers, debt, mortgages, grown kids, I'm sober, he's drunk, so it's just insensitive and disrespectful.

 

-last abrupt change in topic-

 

I think we've all thought we were head over heels in love with someone, until we weren't. Does it mean the feelings weren't real? No - they absolutely were. It was painful hearing him tell me he "thought" (his word) he was in love with the xOW, more painful and devastating than the sex. But WH says he never saw a "real" future with her. In their future faking, it always involved just the two of them, sex, and alcohol (she drank a lot too from what I understand) - not her kids (she had lost custody of them) and not ours (WH says he never wanted our kids around the xOW - he didn't think it was fair to the kids or me) and not the extended family (never envisioned her sitting at a Christmas dinner with him - he said he would have been too embarrassed and ashamed.) This part of knowing my husband's thoughts is very hard to stomach - how could he treat another human being like that? When the OW ask, "How can you take him back?" some days I don't f*cking know.

 

-closing thought-

 

I think that classic line WSs use "I love my wife I'm just not in love with her anymore..." has an AP equivalent: "I don't love you, I'm just in love with the way you make me feel."

 

My H talked with the BS but he said it was difficult as she put the blame for the A on both me and herself, none on xMM. She was grateful he was willing to work it out with her. It was a bit like talking to a brain-washed person he said. He was not sure she heard what he said and probably did not believe it.

 

I would like to talk to her sure. I would like to tell her he is a liar, that he was not some victim, that he did say he loved me, and that he laughs about how he is currently in marriage counseling only to tell her what she wants to hear so she has a false sense of confidence and trusts him. I would like to tell her how he came back because he figured she felt safe now since he finally had sex with her - sex he said was emotionally difficult for him as he has all these feelings for me. Pul-lease. She wouldn't believe me though. I would be the crazy, jealous OW.

 

I agree about all you wrote about the sex stuff, life does get in the way.Now many men cheat even though they are getting sex at home or the wife is sick/pregnant and that is horrible or these engaged guys I read about here but a lot are in roommate marriages. It's like Nike says, Just Do It. Here is my thing, I am not saying it is right in any way for these guys to be like this, I am just saying, if I don't let my dog out in the yard because I am legitimately busy and he takes a big crap on my rug, is it my fault or the dogs?

 

I don't know if I am making sense, I am not letting men off the hook, just saying it's up to us as women to set boundaries because from what I have seen and read about, many of these guys, they will just keep coming back if we let them.

 

As for my H's OW, yes, he made her mixed CDs, bought her flowers (which I paid for), they talked for hours daily, went for long walks...all stuff I would have liked. He says I was not having sex with him, so he did not feel close to me. Which comes first I guess, the chicken or the egg?

 

Great closing line.

Edited August 19, 2016 by MidnightBlue1980

[MidnightBlue1980]

I interrupt this thread to say - it's killing xMM that I am ignoring him. I just got an email - a pointless email that he would bring a check for me Tuesday. It did not need to be said at all.

 

Oh it's so good to be on top!

 

Tis better to ignore than be ignored!!!! :lmao:

[imperfectangel]

I interrupt this thread to say - it's killing xMM that I am ignoring him. I just got an email - a pointless email that he would bring a check for me Tuesday. It did not need to be said at all.

 

Oh it's so good to be on top!

 

Tis better to ignore than be ignored!!!! :lmao:

 

I had that feeling but then I gave in! Don't make the same mistake I did!

[ladydesigner]

Oh, so much food for thought. I was going to multiquote but then didn't... so if it doesn't flow I admit it's because I am lazy

 

I have a question first, though. Have any of you ever talked with the BS? What was the conversation like? Have any of you ever wanted to talk to the BS? If yes, what did you want to say? If no, why not? I often wish I could talk to the xOW and say look, I don't blame you entirely for what happened and I am sorry for what my husband did to you, but you owe me an apology, so I can have closure, too... I wish she knew that I am not mad at her, that I acknowledge her pain, and that I hope she moves past the hurt and finds happiness with an eligible bachelor.

 

-abrupt change in topic-

 

I would seriously advise before anyone thinks it's as simple as the wife just being like, "Yeah, no more sex, I'm good..." that you remember that the WS claiming to be neglected is at least 50% of the reason sex isn't happening. WHY doesn't she want to have sex with him anymore? Sex starts in the heart and mind for me - if I'm not in the mood, you can a) put me in the mood (I'm easily wooed with sexting and a vigorous massage) or b) be mad at me and go find another hallway to chuck your wiener down. In some marriages, there is a problem that existed before the marriage (mismatched sex drives or unexpressed desires for kink) but I think more often than not it's because after courtship and marriage our lives slowly become more complex, and sex loses its place in line. Sex falls somewhere after go to work, raise the kids, pay the bills, shop for food, make food to eat, save money for retirement and the kids' college funds, clean the house, do the yard work, tend to family commitments, try and have a social life with friends, relax and watch TV... Unless the couple makes a conscious effort to have date night, the marriage WILL start falling apart and sex will be the first thing to go lol

 

-another abrupt change in topic-

 

Reading through the love notes and sexting, seeing the effort he went to to make xOW feel desired, sensing the sexual tension that he created with her, the way he used to create it with me, was infuriating. It wasn't that I was "jealous" of her, I was angry that my husband decided to water her lawn instead of ours, then came back after the affair with the audacity to blame me for him feeling neglected. Seriously, assh*le? What about ME? Once we got married and started having kids, he stopped planning dates or putting any effort whatsoever into us. He didn't plan dates, buy me flowers for no reason, send me silly love notes anymore and I felt neglected and taken for granted. It was always up to me to create "us" time and when I didn't do it as often because he never reciprocated, he felt rejected. So 2 or 3 years of this and he wonders on a Wednesday when he's had 6 beers and springs a woody after he stumbles into bed at 1:30 in the morning why I'm not "putting out" because he managed to slur, "I'm horny - suck my dick..." at me? When we were 20, no kids, and we were both drunk, it was cute and funny. Now we're 40, have bills, careers, debt, mortgages, grown kids, I'm sober, he's drunk, so it's just insensitive and disrespectful.

 

-last abrupt change in topic-

 

I think we've all thought we were head over heels in love with someone, until we weren't. Does it mean the feelings weren't real? No - they absolutely were. It was painful hearing him tell me he "thought" (his word) he was in love with the xOW, more painful and devastating than the sex. But WH says he never saw a "real" future with her. In their future faking, it always involved just the two of them, sex, and alcohol (she drank a lot too from what I understand) - not her kids (she had lost custody of them) and not ours (WH says he never wanted our kids around the xOW - he didn't think it was fair to the kids or me) and not the extended family (never envisioned her sitting at a Christmas dinner with him - he said he would have been too embarrassed and ashamed.) This part of knowing my husband's thoughts is very hard to stomach - how could he treat another human being like that? When the OW ask, "How can you take him back?" some days I don't f*cking know.

 

-closing thought-

 

I think that classic line WSs use "I love my wife I'm just not in love with her anymore..." has an AP equivalent: "I don't love you, I'm just in love with the way you make me feel."

 

This post is spot on for any OW who do want to hear the truth from a BS's side where there may be lack in sex but due to issues caused by the WS to begin with. It is spot on in my situation too and in these cases I feel the BS is the ultimate victim imo.

[ladydesigner]

I interrupt this thread to say - it's killing xMM that I am ignoring him. I just got an email - a pointless email that he would bring a check for me Tuesday. It did not need to be said at all.

 

Oh it's so good to be on top!

 

Tis better to ignore than be ignored!!!! :lmao:

 

Keep up the good work Midnight you have got this!!!

[MidnightBlue1980]

I had that feeling but then I gave in! Don't make the same mistake I did!

 

No way. He even cc'ed someone else on the email, probably thinking I would feel like I had to respond. His check is not due till 9/30. He can just hand it to me next week. Pointless email. He just wants me to respond so he can get an ego boast. I hope it ruins his weekend.

 

I wouldn't respond even if he had the President of the United States cc'ed on the email. It's like my birthday and Christmas.

 

I'm a week without contact. I'm going strong and feeling better.

[Lobe]

No way. He even cc'ed someone else on the email, probably thinking I would feel like I had to respond. His check is not due till 9/30. He can just hand it to me next week. Pointless email. He just wants me to respond so he can get an ego boast. I hope it ruins his weekend.

 

I wouldn't respond even if he had the President of the United States cc'ed on the email. It's like my birthday and Christmas.

 

I'm a week without contact. I'm going strong and feeling better.

 

What a maroon....

[Lobe]

Love this post but it's Friday and I'm lazy too so comments in line.

 

glad it's not just me. I'm going to go copy paste italics route for this round...

 

First, lots of BSs have misplaced anger and want revenge. Her desperate attempt to sue you was just that - desperation. I don't know if there is any way to describe exactly how badly your thinking is obfuscated in the weeks and months following d-day. It took everything I had to keep it together. MY IC made me write a letter to the OW (she didn't tell me to send or not send, only to write it) as if I was giving advice to my BFF and that was a turning point for me in starting to look at me and WH instead of focusing on her. (And trying to unsee the mind movies of my husband fisting her- he has really big hands and I've given birth a few times - power to ya if that's your schtick but that's just something I will never understand... I think my husband maybe had a bit of a madonna-whore complex thing going on between me and xOW, but I digress...)

 

Word.

3 thoughts:

1. This happens in some form to many marriages. To not have it happens both spouses have to make time for/ put effort into intimacy.

 

Yup, but it's terrifying and exhausting - the fear of rejection is huge, for both partners, because there's often so much resentment. Both parties often feel like they have done what they could - dropping hints, sighing loudly, sending out cues, grunting like apes and squeaking like mice - but they don't actually just sit down and say it (whatever "it" is) and often "it" is two sides of the same coin. I think couples can work past resentment, but not contempt. Couples who are seriously just stuck in a rut have to work hard at being vulnerable again, whereas a fresh new relationship has that vulnerability built in and there is less at risk if you are rejected, at least in the initial flirting stages.

 

2. This is what really happens not what OW is told MM

 

I would absolutely love to ask the xOW about what my WH said about us and our family. He was open about everything he said, did, when and where and how they had sex, etc. but every time I have ever asked him what he told her about me, he goes mute. The most he's ever given me is, "I told her we didn't have sex much because you were always busy..." @^*&$#^#%$ assh*le. I was taking on extra contracts because you were drinking us out of a @%@$&^%@$^ home... and buying HER alcohol. With money I made. To pay our mortgage. Because she had no money after paying child support to the kids she lost custody of. WT actual F? lol I've actually found some of the gaslighting stories that OW and BS believe from their MM to be outright comical - the desperate lengths they will go to trying to juggle all the lies they've launched knows no bounds...

 

3. You are very switched on and seem cool. The minute my H told me he was in love with someone else, and then said I'm horny suck me, I'd either throw him out or take my kids and walk out. You deserve better and out of real curiousity... Why do you stay with him?

 

He doesn't say things like that anymore - that was him in the years leading up to the A. He thought he was being funny and cute because that was what we were like in our 20s. His xOW of course was more than willing to respond to such an adorable demand.

 

He only said he thought he was in love with xOW once, on d-day. I had two questions for him. 1) Are you in love with her? his reply was, "I think so." and 2) Did you wear a condom? his reply was: "We're both fixed." Uh, I'm pretty sure I don't give a good godd*mn if you get her pregnant, only if you put AIDS or herpes in my vagina, you schmuck...

 

So why do I stay? Love. WH realizes that he has to own his choices. He no longer blames me denying him sex as the root of the A because he sees how little effort he was putting into us compared to the xOW, not just during the A but for years leading up to it. I don't know what the journey is like for him - I can piece a lot of it together from reading other remorseful waywards - but what he has told me is that in the course of having the affair, he had turned himself into the "worst possible version" of himself and couldn't stand looking at his reflection in the mirror because he didn't recognize himself. When I trigger, the look on his face is pure shame and sadness for doubting me, for hurting me, for betraying me.

 

That being said, if he had at any point (or does at any point going forward) change his tune, I won't stay, because the one thing this ordeal has taught me was that I have boundaries and they are not drawn in dry sand with a slender twig, they are walls of brick and mortar set in stone.

[MidnightBlue1980]

he had turned himself into the "worst possible version" of himself and couldn't stand looking at his reflection in the mirror because he didn't recognize himself. When I trigger, the look on his face is pure shame and sadness for doubting me, for hurting me, for betraying me.

.

 

Here's my experience with this - and I'm not saying your H does not feel shame and sadness - in my situation, xMM said the same thing to me, 'I betrayed my wife' and puts on the long sad face while moaning, 'who have I become, what have I done to my family.'

 

I take that at face value - he realized how much he loved his wife and not me (the subject of many posts here by all the OW) but my H cries BS. He constantly reminds me that the only reason xMM told BW was that he, my H, called him about 10 times that night and said he was going to show up at his house if he didn't tell her. In my situation, xMM was more than happy to have a LTA. He was unconcerned about his wife at all.

 

And then of course, he came back.

 

I'm not saying at all that all WS's are the same. I do trust and believe my H and he trusts me. But you just have to wonder if they put on too much of a big horse and pony show.

[Lobe]

I'm not saying at all that all WS's are the same. I do trust and believe my H and he trusts me. But you just have to wonder if they put on too much of a big horse and pony show.

 

My husband is a bad liar and even worse actor. Catching him in the A and him trying to cover it up was a bit like watching a chocolate-covered fumbling 4yo stand on a pile of cookie crumbs up to his armpit in the jar and say, "Me? No - I never touched a cookie in my life..." He's not the horse and pony type with me but holy crap, the flowery emails he sent her? (badly written I might add) He saved all the flourishes for her, and I got, "Well, if you're not happy, do something about it..." (that was his invitation for me to set up a date, he later explained lol...) !%&@# affairs lol

[rainbowsandkittens]

I'm trying to get caught up on this thread but it moves so fast! And I was trying to take a break on here because I felt like it all kept triggering me over and over.

 

As of today my xMM is blocked on everything. Whatsapp, Twitter, FB (we weren't friends but I could see some of his stuff.) My heart hurts so badly but I know this is what I needed to do. I had been going back and forth and agonizing (since, you know, we're just friends. right? What's the big deal?)

 

He was on vacation with his family for 3 weeks and at first he was texting, sending pics (some inappropriate), keeping up with me on social media. Then blocks me on whatsapp. I freaked out. Was just a total mess. Bc literally an hour before he was texting me and then suddenly- blocked. He came back the next day- didn't say a thing about it- and told me about how his partner caught him doing something he shouldn't have been and he was in trouble and wouldn't be texting much. I called him out on blocking me and a few days later he admitted it. No real apology. Just sort of blamed me for it and gave me a lame, "Sorry about that." I lost it and told him he obviously didn't give a F*** about me. That was last Friday. Never heard from him again.

 

Personally I think he may have had some sort of DD but I don't know. Could be he just didn't want to deal with me anymore. Could be that they were in an upswing having been together for 3 weeks. Even though I want to know what happened.... I'm never going to. Even if he told me, who could believe him? I believed so much of his bs. Esp when he told me he wouldn't stop talking to me again.

 

Next week is a year since we met/ had our first date. Stupidly I thought.... well, I don't want to admit what I thought. I thought it would mean more. But I realize I've been wrong about a lot of things this past year.

 

 

So now I try and move on. I'm already making huge leaps and bounds to try and get my self esteem back and improve myself. It's exhausting in many ways but I know how important it is. For me. But at this moment... I'm just really sad.

 

Thank you everyone for posting your stories- as the BS, the xOW, everything. Sorry if I seem to come in and post and leave. I am trying not to do that.

[NewLeaf512]

I'm sure lots of BS have misplaced anger. That's sad for all.

 

Love is a good reason to forgive. I'm kind of reading between the lines here and I'm not picking you apart as you will see from the next paragraph where I state my own irrational feelings and thoughts, questions I ask myself that I can't answer. He was/is drinking too much. You were working like a slave being the main bread winner while he was larking about being the main breadwinner and mum at the same time, not romancing you and leaving you in a sexual desert. Once or 100 times having your H tell you he thinks he's in love with another woman, had quite a long A and unprotected sex with her can't be unheard or unseen. How has this changed (besides him breaking off the A)? The employment, the financials etc? How does he make you feel now?

 

The one thing that stands out for me is that if he is remorseful to your satisfaction, does the fact he won't tell you what he said about you important to resolve or is it something you can live with?

 

My xMM told me and the whole office (of solicitors and Barristers!) he was in the middle of a divorce before he chased me. I had no reason to believe otherwise. Later when I found out he was a serial cheater, I knew it wasn't me who was important, it was finding a woman play toy. This was a man I knew as a friend for about 9 years before the A, who knew my H, that my H got another woman pregnant and that my H went on a shooting spree and killed himself. ExMM was my friend then. Supported me through that absolute catastrophe. Then 7 years later he deceives me and many others into thinking he is separated and has filed and I think I have a BF but really I'm just a mistress. I ask myself over and over "why did he chose me? He knew how fragile I was and how hurt I had been, why me to break?" And the only thing I can think of is simply because I said yes. I don't know if there was any truth at all to what he told me about his M, or what his wife was like or how she treated him. I knew her from her attending work events prior to the A but never really outside those times. I wonder why she forgave him since she now knows I was his third A, and about what lies he told her about me if any. A part of me will always love him, because I initially believed the fantasy of him that he created for me. The rest of me just plain hates him. Even if he came back crawling over shards of glass naked from America to here with the finalised divorce decree in his mouth begging I wouldn't have him back.

 

NL

 

 

glad it's not just me. I'm going to go copy paste italics route for this round...

 

First, lots of BSs have misplaced anger and want revenge. Her desperate attempt to sue you was just that - desperation. I don't know if there is any way to describe exactly how badly your thinking is obfuscated in the weeks and months following d-day. It took everything I had to keep it together. MY IC made me write a letter to the OW (she didn't tell me to send or not send, only to write it) as if I was giving advice to my BFF and that was a turning point for me in starting to look at me and WH instead of focusing on her. (And trying to unsee the mind movies of my husband fisting her- he has really big hands and I've given birth a few times - power to ya if that's your schtick but that's just something I will never understand... I think my husband maybe had a bit of a madonna-whore complex thing going on between me and xOW, but I digress...)

 

Word.

3 thoughts:

1. This happens in some form to many marriages. To not have it happens both spouses have to make time for/ put effort into intimacy.

 

Yup, but it's terrifying and exhausting - the fear of rejection is huge, for both partners, because there's often so much resentment. Both parties often feel like they have done what they could - dropping hints, sighing loudly, sending out cues, grunting like apes and squeaking like mice - but they don't actually just sit down and say it (whatever "it" is) and often "it" is two sides of the same coin. I think couples can work past resentment, but not contempt. Couples who are seriously just stuck in a rut have to work hard at being vulnerable again, whereas a fresh new relationship has that vulnerability built in and there is less at risk if you are rejected, at least in the initial flirting stages.

 

2. This is what really happens not what OW is told MM

 

I would absolutely love to ask the xOW about what my WH said about us and our family. He was open about everything he said, did, when and where and how they had sex, etc. but every time I have ever asked him what he told her about me, he goes mute. The most he's ever given me is, "I told her we didn't have sex much because you were always busy..." @^*&$#^#%$ assh*le. I was taking on extra contracts because you were drinking us out of a @%@$&^%@$^ home... and buying HER alcohol. With money I made. To pay our mortgage. Because she had no money after paying child support to the kids she lost custody of. WT actual F? lol I've actually found some of the gaslighting stories that OW and BS believe from their MM to be outright comical - the desperate lengths they will go to trying to juggle all the lies they've launched knows no bounds...

 

3. You are very switched on and seem cool. The minute my H told me he was in love with someone else, and then said I'm horny suck me, I'd either throw him out or take my kids and walk out. You deserve better and out of real curiousity... Why do you stay with him?

 

He doesn't say things like that anymore - that was him in the years leading up to the A. He thought he was being funny and cute because that was what we were like in our 20s. His xOW of course was more than willing to respond to such an adorable demand.

 

He only said he thought he was in love with xOW once, on d-day. I had two questions for him. 1) Are you in love with her? his reply was, "I think so." and 2) Did you wear a condom? his reply was: "We're both fixed." Uh, I'm pretty sure I don't give a good godd*mn if you get her pregnant, only if you put AIDS or herpes in my vagina, you schmuck...

 

So why do I stay? Love. WH realizes that he has to own his choices. He no longer blames me denying him sex as the root of the A because he sees how little effort he was putting into us compared to the xOW, not just during the A but for years leading up to it. I don't know what the journey is like for him - I can piece a lot of it together from reading other remorseful waywards - but what he has told me is that in the course of having the affair, he had turned himself into the "worst possible version" of himself and couldn't stand looking at his reflection in the mirror because he didn't recognize himself. When I trigger, the look on his face is pure shame and sadness for doubting me, for hurting me, for betraying me.

 

That being said, if he had at any point (or does at any point going forward) change his tune, I won't stay, because the one thing this ordeal has taught me was that I have boundaries and they are not drawn in dry sand with a slender twig, they are walls of brick and mortar set in stone.

[rainbowsandkittens]

And Lobe- that you esp for being here. Your posts crack me up. (So not into fisting btw. I just learned how that happens recently. I used to think it was an actual fist. WTF.) And you have such compassion for everyone. I really appreciate it.

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

My xMM told me and the whole office (of solicitors and Barristers!) he was in the middle of a divorce before he chased me. I had no reason to believe otherwise. Later when I found out he was a serial cheater, I knew it wasn't me who was important, it was finding a woman play toy. This was a man I knew as a friend for about 9 years before the A, who knew my H, that my H got another woman pregnant and that my H went on a shooting spree and killed himself. ExMM was my friend then. Supported me through that absolute catastrophe. Then 7 years later he deceives me and many others into thinking he is separated and has filed and I think I have a BF but really I'm just a mistress. I ask myself over and over "why did he chose me? He knew how fragile I was and how hurt I had been, why me to break?" And the only thing I can think of is simply because I said yes. I don't know if there was any truth at all to what he told me about his M, or what his wife was like or how she treated him. I knew her from her attending work events prior to the A but never really outside those times. I wonder why she forgave him since she now knows I was his third A, and about what lies he told her about me if any. A part of me will always love him, because I initially believed the fantasy of him that he created for me. The rest of me just plain hates him. Even if he came back crawling over shards of glass naked from America to here with the finalised divorce decree in his mouth begging I wouldn't have him back.

 

NL

 

I just wanted to say that what this "man" did to you is truly horrible. I can see why you are so upset. I do understand why you feel like you love him and you probably hate yourself a little for it. A lot of us are like that. But what this guy did, pure evil.

 

As for what his wife feels taking him back, well look at it this way, you still love him and he was horrible to you. She is his wife, the bonds are deep and these guys spin a good story to explain, deflect and blame the spouse and AP for everything. She is probably very emotionally manipulated.

[ladydesigner]

Here's my experience with this - and I'm not saying your H does not feel shame and sadness - in my situation, xMM said the same thing to me, 'I betrayed my wife' and puts on the long sad face while moaning, 'who have I become, what have I done to my family.'

 

I take that at face value - he realized how much he loved his wife and not me (the subject of many posts here by all the OW) but my H cries BS. He constantly reminds me that the only reason xMM told BW was that he, my H, called him about 10 times that night and said he was going to show up at his house if he didn't tell her. In my situation, xMM was more than happy to have a LTA. He was unconcerned about his wife at all.

 

And then of course, he came back.

 

I'm not saying at all that all WS's are the same. I do trust and believe my H and he trusts me. But you just have to wonder if they put on too much of a big horse and pony show.

 

I know my WH loved the xMOW. They had an A for 3 years. That in my eyes IS A RELATIONSHIP. I do think my WH loved me, but the pull of MOW was stronger for whatever reason.

 

I do believe in LTA's that the MM loves both, but obviously it is impossible to keep up with two separate lives and that is when all the chaos comes into the picture. It's like they are trying to water both sides of the grass but neither are getting any greener.

[Grey Cloud]

Exactly. I agree with everything you wrote. I don't think you sound bitter, you sound very matter-of-fact. In fact, I have a guy friend IRL and I have learned so much about men (and he from me about women, we joke we should write a book). Anyway, he just filed for divorce (no OW) but before he did he asked a ton of men, family, friends, etc. and every single one said, your wife is hot, you have little kids, sure she is a PITA and no sex, just cheat - who has sex with their wives anyway? We all just get someone on the side for fun.

 

I think that sums it up neatly. If you are married and don't sleep with your husband, someone else will. He probably will not leave you for her but by refusing to give your husband sex, you are pretty much guaranteeing heartache for yourself and another woman out there. Eventually someone will show him attention and boom! he will be all over it.

 

I lived this myself on both sides. I had a lot of really valid reasons for barely having sex - babies, work, my weight, tired, the list is long. In the end, someone paid him attention and off he went. H is still here, he just wanted my attention all along. I lived the reverse with xMM, which is why I am on this board. Now he gets it all from his W and I am collateral damage.

 

It probably sounds like I am blaming women, and I'm really not but I have come to learn so much about men, how they think and what they need. They really do not need that much. If you give them sex, feed them, show them attention, do not be mean/ridicule them and basically let them have a beer with a friend, they are generally fine and won't go anywhere. We can't change them. That is just how (most) of them are. I hope men are not offended if they are reading this. I am sure not all fit this mold. It is just my experience.

 

So now IRL when I hear my girlfriends saying how they no longer have sex with their H or its so infrequent and the H volunteers how he doesn't even care anymore, he's given up, he has his work or whatever - I feel mad at my friends because I can't help but think of xMM's wife. If she didn't say she no longer wanted to have sex with him in 2012, in 2015, he never would have been texting me that he loved me, all in an attempt to get sex from some source. Again, not playing a victim. I participated.

 

Again, not really blaming the BS, she had her reasons I am sure, as I had mine and I realize I am comparing men to the family pet, as if they are without control. This is just what I have learned to be (mostly) true. Look where we all are today because of it.

 

Added: for the woman, at least for me, the way my H explains it - if you don't sleep with your H, he pulls back emotionally, the W is then vulnerable and open to attention from other men. Women cheat for attention and love. Men cheat for sex.

 

This does not address the MM who are serial cheaters with multiple women. That is different. Some people are just not meant to be married.

 

Ok this is where I struggle because my xMM WAS getting sex with his wife at home on a regular basis. We didn't have sex until 8 months into the affair. If he was getting sex at home why did he chase me? All I can think of is that his wife was consumed with two young children and he could feel 'young' and free with me with no responsibility. And could keep the two worlds separate.