"Destabilization Phase" and your thoughts and experience

[ShatteredLady]

Jenkins. Hugs! You know that I hold no bad feelings for you at all (other than the occasional trigger just because you were a MM...you know what I mean)

 

Sometimes I think that you project too many of your feelings onto the WH (completely understandably) but let's be honest here....my H's best friend from uni was always a womanizer. I had no experience back then but now I'm hit hard by memories like...

 

* sitting in the pub talking about the married woman he shagged for a few months the year before. Her H found out, divorced...he ran (too much hassle). I can see him clear as day trying to remember her name when we were talking about it!! Her life destroyed by a man who couldn't recall her name

 

* the account managers in my old company getting so lost in conversation that they forgot I was sat there. Subject of conversation, "Have you tried Sarah from telesales yet? F**ks like a bunny!! Does anything & everything!!". (I knew her. She loved him desperately!)

 

* talking with my near suicidal friend who's wife had discovered his affair. "How can I live if she goes & takes the kids? I can't live without her! If that bitch (his beloved OW) hadn't been such a retard & been more careful I wouldn't be loosing my life!!"

 

I have no doubt that some MM do dearly love their OW & are too cowardly to leave.

I've spoken before about my oldest cousin who left his wife weeks after meeting his OW. They're still married (35 years?). Lovely couple. Only regret is that they couldn't have children (she told him the first time they kissed that she couldn't).

 

From everything I've lived, read, heard of....I'm still convinced that more women are duped, left broken hearted than MM. Even married OW (not all. Just most) are very different than the average cheating MM. I'm sorry Jenkins. I KNOW that there are exceptions but look at how many men vs women even join forums to talk about it?!?

 

12 years ago I was angry at my H ow. She didn't need to make friends with me. I even threw her birthday party for her while she was having an affair with my H!

Since then I've held no bitterness. Deep down inside I know it could of been possible for me to fall into her trap when I was single.

I saw how fast my H dropped her. She changed jobs. She moved. His life went back to 'Happily ever after'. I rugswept & never even gave him a hard time. I'm 'understanding' (read pathetic!).

 

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is.....occasionally 3 people's lives are forever changed (not including kids or extended family) but more often than not its only 2 people who are left broken, shattered, struggling to survive...those 2 are the women!!

 

No hard feelings Jenkins. Very bad day, in a bad week, month, year. I'm not being all "solidarity sisters". I'm just saying what I see & you are more of an exception than a rule.

 

Oh ranting!! Not pretty! I'm an ugly cryer!!

[rainbowsandkittens]

I agree with shatteredlady. Jenkins, you are so sweet but I don't think you're a typical MM. I think you were more sensitive and cared more about your OW than most. There was another poster here who disparaged his OW a lot and said over and over that he used her for sex.

 

You're right about us (the APs) being in this together. That's why you'll never see me make a comment about Karma. Bc as much as I want it to get my xMM I know it would be coming for me too. I don't have any pretense that what I did was horribly wrong at all. Believe me. I just don't talk about it out loud bc I feel like an anvil will come down on my head. Deservedly. Well and bc I'm ashamed. Mostly that. But a little bc of the anvil.

[Lobe]

I agree with shatteredlady. Jenkins, you are so sweet but I don't think you're a typical MM. I think you were more sensitive and cared more about your OW than most. There was another poster here who disparaged his OW a lot and said over and over that he used her for sex.

 

You're right about us (the APs) being in this together. That's why you'll never see me make a comment about Karma. Bc as much as I want it to get my xMM I know it would be coming for me too. I don't have any pretense that what I did was horribly wrong at all. Believe me. I just don't talk about it out loud bc I feel like an anvil will come down on my head. Deservedly. Well and bc I'm ashamed. Mostly that. But a little bc of the anvil.

 

If it's any consolation the BS lives with judgment too. Here are some gems:

 

"What did you do to make him cheat?" (Family)

"You're lucky he took you back." (A family friend)

"I would never take a cheater back - you must be desperate." (Same friend)

"You're weak and pathetic - why would you ever take the OW's sloppy seconds?" (This was a nugget I got from not only real friends but a "concerned citizen" on LS via PM lol)

 

Affairs are just bad news. Somebody always loses, big time.

[Grey Cloud]

I agree with shatteredlady. Jenkins, you are so sweet but I don't think you're a typical MM. I think you were more sensitive and cared more about your OW than most. There was another poster here who disparaged his OW a lot and said over and over that he used her for sex.

 

You're right about us (the APs) being in this together. That's why you'll never see me make a comment about Karma. Bc as much as I want it to get my xMM I know it would be coming for me too. I don't have any pretense that what I did was horribly wrong at all. Believe me. I just don't talk about it out loud bc I feel like an anvil will come down on my head. Deservedly. Well and bc I'm ashamed. Mostly that. But a little bc of the anvil.

 

You are so right Rainbows. I have talked about karma recently but I know I am as equally to blame in the whole thing. Maybe my karma is feeling stuck and unable to move on from the whole A mess and feeling miserable. I also feel shame and guilt. I feel like the anvil has already hit me on the head somewhat!

 

Jenkins - you are more sensitive and understanding compared to the traditional narcissistic MM. I know my xMM doesn't display the same degree of understanding and emotion as you do! I do think you are a bit of an exception to the rule! But a MM's perspective on the threads is still valuable.

[Grey Cloud]

P.s. Up to 74 pages on this thread and still going strong! Anyone know what the record is for number of pages on a thread in LS?

[Lobe]

P.s. Up to 74 pages on this thread and still going strong! Anyone know what the record is for number of pages on a thread in LS?

 

The record without being shut down due to high tension between those who theoretically ought to be adversarial!? lol

 

Yay us for rocking being part of the complex, unpredictable human race.

[Lobe]

I have talked about karma recently but I know I am as equally to blame in the whole thing. Maybe my karma is feeling stuck and unable to move on from the whole A mess and feeling miserable.

 

So, I (in a very clinical and boring scientific way) don't believe in karma or proof would exist that bad things wouldn't happen to good people but more importantly good things wouldn't happen to bad people. Karma? No more real than tooth fairies.

 

F*ck karma. You are the master of your own destiny, as am I. Wishing ill on someone isn't healing - indifference is the goal. The best revenge is always living well and if I find myself in a small-minded headspace where I cannot derive joy from someone else's pain, I know I've got my pariorities messed up.

 

But just in case you are confused about karma math in affair land:

 

AP wishing ill on MM/MW means a curse on BS who is supposedly unlovable, controlling, sexless... If you want to diminish the convo to colloquialism and confirmation bias, ok, let's go there:

 

AP wishing ill on BS means curse on MM/MW who is irresistible but a sl*t/man ho calls to question the APs not the BS's character judgment... BS wishing harm in the WS of the AP? Not worthy of your time.

 

Karma and poetic justice are not the same. Accountability and remorse are not mutually exclusive.

 

You're not dumb so I don't have to beat the drum harder.

Edited August 27, 2016 by Lobe
Typos of course

[Outofmysystem]

Ok - HOLY CRAP! You spent that much money on her and bought her all those gifts!! I got salads, appetizers and some drinks on our dates. That is pretty insane Out. How on earth did you buy all that without your wife seeing the money missing? You must be loaded. I guess money is a big reason you won't get divorced.

 

Happy Birthday a day late. My bday is next week. It's always a moment where you think, I am not bringing all this crap into a new year.

 

I relate to your statement of knowing where you stand. I still say though, come on, she got/is getting divorced. Obviously its a big part over you, even though you are not available, she has wrecked her marriage in her own eyes. I'm sure you have your reasons for not-divorcing, but you must see she wanted to be with you. I'm sure she still loves you and thought about you yesterday. She is just angry. She lost.

 

Blue, thanks for the BDay wishes, once again you are so on point. Loaded?, not really.....I do make decent money, my wife and I have separate checking accounts, always have (one less thing to fight about, mostly, lol) so it was juggling more than just 2 lives, the cash was stretched.....however, I still maintained the expensive family vacations (for my W) and the gifts (for my xMOW)......I'm not going to say it wasn't stressful, it was, but......I loved her (still do to a point) and I wanted to make her happy because no one had ever done stuff like that for her (not even her H).....there was a lot of "firsts" between myself and her, and that was just one aspect of the relationship.

 

I love your last line, "I'm sure she still loves you and thought about you yesterday. She is just angry. She is lost."

 

That really made me feel much better.....it really did, thank you.

 

Rainbows, thank you too for the wishes

 

You know, Jenkins and Rumble and myself may be the exceptions when it comes to the MM, or xMM whichever the case may be, but I'll tell you an inside secret that the other guys (MM) won't admit too, because they are thick, stupid, selfish, a prick, narcissistic, egotistical.....however you want to describe them....inside, under all the boasting to the friends or pats on the back for being "The Man" with their buddies, they are just scared little boys that really do love all of you, they are just to emotionally retarded to know it. And if they aren't, they really are not worth anything.

[paradoxx]

Reading this thread has been helpful. It's amazing to see all the different perspectives genuinely offered to help those who are struggling with these dark moments. I've been struggling with the wanting out/ not wanting out. I am in no way hoping my AP leaves his wife, but I struggle with wondering if I'm any more than just a way for him to get sex. I don't want to fall for him either but my biggest fear is that I'll care more than he will (or that I spread do care more). Reading all these posts make me feel that this will likely happen, so I've been reacting a little angrily to his texts and accusing him of being uncaring. I guess for me the push/pull is me internally struggling with getting out. I don't feel that there is a lot of manipulation from him. Most posters seem to have APs who are older, but mine is young. Im not sure if that makes any difference. We are just, both of us, cake eaters, but neither of us have really tried to stop. I'm gathering the courage to do it, but fearing the depression that may resurface.

[paradoxx]

You are so right Rainbows. I have talked about karma recently but I know I am as equally to blame in the whole thing. Maybe my karma is feeling stuck and unable to move on from the whole A mess and feeling miserable.

 

^^^This is what I'm afraid of.

[ShatteredLady]

OutofMySystem. You put yourself in the same category as Jenkins. I clearly need to read more of your posts! (Yes that's snippy) I don't recall you really even mentioning your wife....no where near as many times as you've listed the expensive gifts that you bought for your OW anyway.

 

Why is that?

 

You state "however you want to describe them....inside, under all the boasting to the friends or pats on the back for being "The Man" with their buddies...."

 

REALLY?

 

Jenkins why haven't you ever talked about how much time you spent boasting to the guys about cheating on your wife? Did you feel like The Man?

 

 

Confession time. I've had a few cocktails & I'm getting stroppy.

 

I don't get you OutOfMySystem. Diamonds? Ego hits? Boasting to the guys?

[Lobe]

^^^This is what I'm afraid of.

 

Even if karma isn't real. Your conscience is. If you can stop externalizing the forces at work, you will see that you have power, strength, autonomy. No one else has to look in the mirror on your day of reckoning but you - choose your own adventure accordingly.

 

Love you, like nobody else can.

[Lobe]

Confession time.

 

BS with mojitos chiming in - yes please on confession o'clock...

[Red123]

BS with mojitos chiming in - yes please on confession o'clock...

 

Red wine over here, I like a good confession:)

[imperfectangel]

I've decided to go dark on my mm. Surely he can figure why? He can't be that emotionally immature to work out that he is married?!

 

One thing that really gets to me was when we would be texting and I'm thinking that were having a conversation then, he just goes no oh I'm working or a,b,c. He just disappears

 

So that is what I am doing to him. Permanently

[Cymbeline]

"but I'll tell you an inside secret that the other guys (MM) won't admit too, because they are thick, stupid, selfish, a prick, narcissistic, egotistical.....however you want to describe them....inside, under all the boasting to the friends or pats on the back for being "The Man" with their buddies, they are just scared little boys that really do love all of you, they are just to emotionally retarded to know it. And if they aren't, they really are not worth anything."

 

Sorry - didn't quite get this... The OTHER om are 'thick' ' egotistical' and 'emotionally retarded' - but you are not?

 

Oh dear me.

[Adoraxx]

I've decided to go dark on my mm. Surely he can figure why? He can't be that emotionally immature to work out that he is married?!

 

One thing that really gets to me was when we would be texting and I'm thinking that were having a conversation then, he just goes no oh I'm working or a,b,c. He just disappears

 

So that is what I am doing to him. Permanently

 

This is exactly what I'm going to do too once I've moved. He has disappeared on me SO many times, the last 'disappearance' will be MINE and I will not tell him why. He should know after all these years how much he has hurt me with his disappearances... he never once told me 'I don't want contact anymore' or anything like that - and seriously, I would have preferred that!!! Just a little email with "I don't want contact anymore because (...) " would have been better than nothing!!! - , so I bet that's the kind of language he understands.

 

Has MM tried to contact you again, angel?

[Outofmysystem]

Shattered, let me see if I can say it better. Putting myself in with Jenkins because we are guys, that's all. I'm not saying my A was anything like his or Rumbles, except the similarities......as far as how we handle(d) it, or how we feel now, no. We all have different feeling, do I have guilt, shame for what I did?, of course I do....do I post about that part, not so much...but just because I don't doesn't mean it's not there.

 

Cy, that was a generalization about the collective OM in this thread that show no caring or feelings about their AP at all.....do I have some of those traits, yes, but I genuinely cared about and for mine, that's all I was saying, I just didn't write it well I guess, sorry. And the "boasting to buddies" was in response to something someone posted, then over hearing that about someone that was in an A, I wasn't saying that's what I did.

[imperfectangel]

This is exactly what I'm going to do too once I've moved. He has disappeared on me SO many times, the last 'disappearance' will be MINE and I will not tell him why. He should know after all these years how much he has hurt me with his disappearances... he never once told me 'I don't want contact anymore' or anything like that - and seriously, I would have preferred that!!! Just a little email with "I don't want contact anymore because (...) " would have been better than nothing!!! - , so I bet that's the kind of language he understands.

 

Has MM tried to contact you again, angel?

 

He emailed me on Thursday I replied he responded yesterday so yes I replied then the usual radio silence. Always the same. Like I said it's not even like he says I'm at work now or any other reason he just, disappears.

 

I'm sick of checking my phone, wondering what he's doing. If he ever asks me something like why won't you reply or what have I got to do to see you etc my answer will just be get divorced then I'll disappear again

 

I want to be honest here, I want to be with him at some point so no I won't block but I'll no longer have a affair either

[rainbowsandkittens]

I have to say that the best thing about blocking is that I'm not checking my phone 100 times day. It was exhausting and everytime there was no message my heart would literally ache.

 

 

I love that the three ladies got a little liquored up and formed a thread gang. You three are fierce!!!

 

 

I just took the dog for a long walk and got to thinking about xMM and his Kids and partner starting school and what their life is like and how easy it all seems for him. Sometimes I think about this and I could choke on my sadness. For all of us but ESP his kids. And his partner. I hate that he's done this multiple times with no actual consequences. I hope I'm wrong about him looking for someone else now- it's just a gut feeling. Ugh. The pain of all of this sucks so bad. I wish I could find a way to put it entirely out of my mind. I know time will help but it just doesn't move fast enough for me.

[Lobe]

I want to be honest here, I want to be with him at some point so no I won't block but I'll no longer have a affair either

 

IA, I hope that in going dark you are planning to start living like he's not ever coming to sweep you off your feet. I hope you're not going dark to play his game, using it as a tool to make him chase you. Going dark isn't going NC and so long as you are waiting for him, you are waiting for him... how long do you want to wait before you make YOU the most important thing in your life? When you truly go NC you give yourself the gift of moving forward. Going dark? It's voluntarily entering purgatory. Please say that's not your whole plan...

[Lobe]

I know time will help but it just doesn't move fast enough for me.

 

Right?! I want a fast forward button on my life so I can be past this phase...

[rainbowsandkittens]

We need to figure out how to make one. Then we can get investors on Shark Tank and make a bazillion dollars.

[imperfectangel]

IA, I hope that in going dark you are planning to start living like he's not ever coming to sweep you off your feet. I hope you're not going dark to play his game, using it as a tool to make him chase you. Going dark isn't going NC and so long as you are waiting for him, you are waiting for him... how long do you want to wait before you make YOU the most important thing in your life? When you truly go NC you give yourself the gift of moving forward. Going dark? It's voluntarily entering purgatory. Please say that's not your whole plan...

 

No it's not a game for me. I want to drastically change my life. ATM yes I want to be with him but I am also open to this changing. I am never going to meet someone whilst he is in my life so I can't guess a time frame or know when this will happen obvs I can only deal with how I'm feeling now. My long term plan is for me to be settled with a available man I can only think in the next week or two ATM or it becomes too over whelming

[Lobe]

Commit to 3 weeks of you not contacting him and not responding to him if he breaks NC. That's a reasonable goal. "Tis better to ignore than be ignored."

 

Think about it in terms of disrupting old patterns.

Every time you think of him, make yourself think about puppies and kittens.

Every time you go to text him, text a friend a question that opens a conversation (can you recommend, do you know of any good, have you ever tried...?) or make a conscious decision to play Scrabble or Candy Crush instead.

Every time you feel like you just can't go on, say "I'm worth more because..." and fill in the blank.

 

You've got this. One step, one day at a time.