"Destabilization Phase" and your thoughts and experience

[Anne5113]

Hold off on my previous advice, Lost you have to get a plan to leave your abusive husband safely. My entire 14 year marriage was volatile with us both having poor control of our tempers in the early years. He was abusive but I wasn't completely without blame. Things mellowed over the years and then a few bad breaks and the angry guy was back only it was different. It wasn't mutual arguing and one of us losing it and throwing something or breaking something. I realized I had to learn self control & diffuse things as best I could. During arguments I would walk outside calmly, he would calm some because of the neighbors possibly hearing. I wouldn't go anywhere in a car with him because I would be trapped. Things escalated physically over a short period of time. The years leading up did the most damage.

[Adoraxx]

Lostgirl, isn't it unbelievable that there are so many of us here who can relate to what you wrote? Sending you big, big, BIG HUGS!!! I can totally relate to what you wrote too.

 

They ALWAYS come back though. Always.

 

I can't even count the times where my xMM acted like your xMM did.

He would go completely cold on me (mostly after sex), but because of him living so nearby, I was pretty much able to interrupt the Silent Treatment that he gave me, by simply going to his house to ask questions!!!

 

I got to hear:

* "I don't want this anymore!"

* "My heart is HERE!!" (with his W/ children/ house/ whatever)

* "I have no use for you anymore!"

* "F off!"

* "I'm done with you. I'm done with US."

* "If you won't stop asking questions, I'm going to stop picking up the phone!" (this was when I couldn't go to his house but called him at work instead)

* "I'm crazy about my W!!!"

* "Well, when you act like this, my love for you goes away quickly."

* "I don't want to see that head of yours anymore, get lost."

* "I need to stop following my d@ck."

 

These are just a few examples of the hurtful things that my xMM said to me. And each and every time I was convinced that this time he would NOT return!!!!!! And he broke my heart over and over again, stomped on it, and moved on with his life as if I never existed to begin with. I would even hear him whistle happy songs while I was just a few steps away in my backyard!!!

 

And he would no longer come to my house.

He would no longer send me any emails.

He would no longer log into our shared account anymore.

He simply moved on...........

 

BUT:

He ALWAYS reappeared. Always.

 

And your MM will contact you again too. Just like the other posters said. He'll come back for that ego boost. Possibly he won't even come back for sex but just to see if you're still there 'willing and waiting'. That's what my xMM does too!!! And it's hurting me so bad!!!

 

Do you ever stop beating yourself up for walking into it? For wanting someone who hurts you over and over and didn't appreciate you enough to so much as be nice to you... I feel like I'm in a hole I will never doc myself out of, bc he consumes my every thought. Please tell me that gets better ☹️ In a perfect world I would get better and out of the blue one day he would call or text, and I would be strong enough not to answer. I don't see either of those scenarios hapleneing.. It's like someone said earlier, he's my kryptonite. Makes you wonder- my routine is seeing if he's hot or cold that day... His routine is knowing he's going to hear from me every work day, and that it's his choice whether he responds hot or cold or even at all. It's our pattern, the way we've always been. He doesntwant me to text him or call him... But what's going to happen when he's wondering if I've tried? I hate him. I hate myself.

I hate myself for wanting someone who HATES ME to like me!! You will get out of this hole though, Lostgirl. You will. Do you think you can change jobs? I hope you can...

 

It's awful that you (and me too) have to see and figure out whether if he's going to be hot or cold on any given day.... Normal people aren't like this!

 

Break the routine of contacting him.. I know he has blocked you now but even if you weren't blocked, it's great to break that routine. Don't give him any more ego boosts sweetie........

 

MORE HUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

xxxxxxxxxxxx

[Grey Cloud]

OMG who are these men?! Adoraxx and Lost - I am lost for words at what your xMM have said to you!!! You both deserve way better than that.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Grey Cloud

[imsosad]

Adoraxx and Lost,

Your affairs are abusive relationships. All affairs are screwed up in away, but I dont think it's common for APs to behave to each other thisway.

Do you feel you are willing to take more in the A because the rules dont apply anyway?

Or is it indicative of other relationships?

I can sympathize with pining,wanting,needing another person. I get how hard it is to walk.away and/or stay away. Thing is, it is usually not overwhelming love that pushes this but lack of self esteem and self worth. I am not judging! I say this with all the love, empathy and care of one xow to others. You go back not because this man is so magnetic and your love is too powerful. No. If you change your inner narative, and think about it in terms of self confidence, dignity and self worth, it can give you the power you need.

No man is ever worth our dignity. Also,men tend to think in those terms even more than we do. Let him degrade you, he will not see this as love and devotion. He will think less of you and know that next time he can treat you even worse.

This thread is so full of pain (i have read it in-off,so i only know bits,maybe my response is a bit off) but i think the only people who can stop this pain is you/we/us/ow.

Self respect and boundries. So hard but so worth it.

Keep going,be strong.

[elaine567]

OMG who are these men?!

 

Agreed, but the more important question is why do OWs put up with guys like this?

They out up with the rejection, the nastiness, the obvious lack of care, the words designed to hurt... etc. etc.

Yet they are still there, professing undying love (or sometimes ambivalence), but are hanging on in there just the same.

 

I get why people stay in bad marriages/LTRS, because the good outweighs the bad, for the kids, for the house, for financial security, for nostalgia, for the status, etc. etc. but women sticking like glue to MM who essentially offer them nothing and are not that nice to them either, I just do not understand.

 

I guess it is a desire to self sabotage, a self sacrificing streak, the thought that they can do or deserve no better...

[Adoraxx]

Adoraxx and Lost,

Your affairs are abusive relationships. All affairs are screwed up in away, but I dont think it's common for APs to behave to each other thisway.

Do you feel you are willing to take more in the A because the rules dont apply anyway?

Or is it indicative of other relationships?

I can sympathize with pining,wanting,needing another person. I get how hard it is to walk.away and/or stay away. Thing is, it is usually not overwhelming love that pushes this but lack of self esteem and self worth. I am not judging! I say this with all the love, empathy and care of one xow to others. You go back not because this man is so magnetic and your love is too powerful. No. If you change your inner narative, and think about it in terms of self confidence, dignity and self worth, it can give you the power you need.

No man is ever worth our dignity. Also,men tend to think in those terms even more than we do. Let him degrade you, he will not see this as love and devotion. He will think less of you and know that next time he can treat you even worse.

This thread is so full of pain (i have read it in-off,so i only know bits,maybe my response is a bit off) but i think the only people who can stop this pain is you/we/us/ow.

Self respect and boundries. So hard but so worth it.

Keep going,be strong.

 

Hi imsosad, I agree with you that it was abusive. And I have tried my hardest (and succeeded for the most part) to stop having sex with him. I simply wouldn't give him any anymore when he reappeared again, lovebombing me and trying to persuade me to do it one more time to see that he has 'truly changed'!!!

 

I still thought that we could at least be civil to each other in this neighborhood but it's an ongoing cycle of pain nonetheless because it hurts to see someone you care about, act so cold towards you. So that's why I'm going to move and I'm very excited about that

 

Hugs!!

[MidnightBlue1980]

Do you ever stop beating yourself up for walking into it? For wanting someone who hurts you over and over and didn't appreciate you enough to so much as be nice to you... I feel like I'm in a hole I will never doc myself out of, bc he consumes my every thought. Please tell me that gets better ☹️ In a perfect world I would get better and out of the blue one day he would call or text, and I would be strong enough not to answer. I don't see either of those scenarios hapleneing.. It's like someone said earlier, he's my kryptonite. Makes you wonder- my routine is seeing if he's hot or cold that day... His routine is knowing he's going to hear from me every work day, and that it's his choice whether he responds hot or cold or even at all. It's our pattern, the way we've always been. He doesntwant me to text him or call him... But what's going to happen when he's wondering if I've tried? I hate him. I hate myself.

 

I hurt my hand and can't type much.

 

Yes, you need to forgive yourself. This guy is abusive and not surprising since you said so is your husband. You need to see that this was never about either guy at all. It is all about you and unresolved issues. I'd bet you had some sort of abuse as a child - cold parent, emotional abuse? If you are like me, you are attracted to people who treat you like a piece of garbage because you are used to it and crave the feeling of getting someone to pay attention to you/love you.

 

Once I realized that, a switch flipped. I don't hate myself anymore.

 

BTW I divorced my abusive ex.

 

Yes it gets better. I promise. But you can never be physical with him again.

[Lostgirl186]

I read all of your replies this morning after a long, rough night. I think each of you probably hit the nail on the head in some way. I'm composed and put together, but a mess on the inside. I think maybe when the crush started, it was one of those "we're married nothing could ever happen, and he's way out of my league." Type thing. When he started paying attention to me, I guess it made me feel good about myself? Classic story. Even after the flirting started, I thought "nothing could ever happen, he's married, he's big in the community church etc, I have nothing to worry about..." And then one day he did.. Even after some of the physical stuff started happening I never actually thought the sex would happen- it took a year of other stuff to get there.. That's what kind of makes me think I'm his first AP. Undoubtably I won't be his last. I hurt until I'm numb today. Occasionally a tear will roll down, and then I try to remember that I'm not even worth a face to face conversation to him before he blocked me. As for my marriage, we've had a rough seven years full of medical issues, infertikity, and H having anxiety/depression that he does nothing about. I shut down and stopped fighting back long before the A started.. And it's just bad..

 

You ladies all day from experience, that they always come back. If your MM has blocked you to where you couldn't contact him, how has he slithered back in? We don't communicate by email, text and phone was our primary means of communication. If I'm going to prepare for him trying o come back at some point, what do I need to be on the lookout for?

 

Btw, I passed him this morning and he waved again. Not only did he wave but he bery obviously and blatantly gawked at me. If he does it again tomorrow, I'm flipping him the bird

[MidnightBlue1980]

I read all of your replies this morning after a long, rough night. I think each of you probably hit the nail on the head in some way. I'm composed and put together, but a mess on the inside. I think maybe when the crush started, it was one of those "we're married nothing could ever happen, and he's way out of my league." Type thing. When he started paying attention to me, I guess it made me feel good about myself? Classic story. Even after the flirting started, I thought "nothing could ever happen, he's married, he's big in the community church etc, I have nothing to worry about..." And then one day he did.. Even after some of the physical stuff started happening I never actually thought the sex would happen- it took a year of other stuff to get there.. That's what kind of makes me think I'm his first AP. Undoubtably I won't be his last. I hurt until I'm numb today. Occasionally a tear will roll down, and then I try to remember that I'm not even worth a face to face conversation to him before he blocked me. As for my marriage, we've had a rough seven years full of medical issues, infertikity, and H having anxiety/depression that he does nothing about. I shut down and stopped fighting back long before the A started.. And it's just bad..

 

You ladies all day from experience, that they always come back. If your MM has blocked you to where you couldn't contact him, how has he slithered back in? We don't communicate by email, text and phone was our primary means of communication. If I'm going to prepare for him trying o come back at some point, what do I need to be on the lookout for?

 

Btw, I passed him this morning and he waved again. Not only did he wave but he bery obviously and blatantly gawked at me. If he does it again tomorrow, I'm flipping him the bird

 

He waved at you because 1. he has no idea how he hurt you because his feelings never were as deep (sorry don't mean to sound harsh) and 2. he does not want to feel like the bad guy. If you wave back or are friendly, he will feel better.

 

The flip side is though, if you are angry and/or ignore him, he is aware how much he hurt you. As an aside I have struggled with this catch 22, heads I lose, tails he wins. I ended up with polite indifference. I felt I'd rather not think I was off sad over him. I'm actually not but it took me 8 months to get there.

 

How do they get back in contact? Various ways. I was never blocked, he just ignored me. His father was in the ER one night and he used it to contact me, looking for sympathy. They get used to us, ego boasts.

 

He will probably just contact you by text and when you say about him blocking you, he will say he had phone issues and swear he would never block you. He will use the fact he waved to back it up. You will doubt your memory and think you are losing it. They do that a lot. Twist it around on us.

[imperfectangel]

Usually a random missed call or a accidentally on purpose not meant for you text.

 

Then you start talking, and before you know it it's like nothing ever happened and you think they're the best person to have ever lived again

[MidnightBlue1980]

As for my marriage, we've had a rough seven years full of medical issues, infertikity, and H having anxiety/depression that he does nothing about. I shut down and stopped fighting back long before the A started.. And it's just bad..

 

 

Is there any hope? I will tell you that my marriage is dramatically different from before the A. I wanted to divorce but H resisted, fought for it hard. I'm out of the fog pretty recently and I am glad I did not get my way. It's impossible to know if your marriage is salvageable while hung up on someone. On the other hand, H is not abusive. My ex was, and I don't think you can fix that.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Usually a random missed call or a accidentally on purpose not meant for you text.

 

Then you start talking, and before you know it it's like nothing ever happened and you think they're the best person to have ever lived again

 

They will say how sorry they are and swear to never do it again. You will end up consoling them even though you were the one hurt.

[ImaginaryDream]

It's all a power-play. He has to be the one in control making the decisions. He'll decide when to block you and when to un-block you. He decides when you're on good terms and when you're not. You took that away from him when you didn't contact him after getting physical.. it made him feel a loss of control, so he had to take that control back by lashing out at you. It keeps you uncertain, unsteady, and constantly questioning yourself and your decisions. Classic narcissistic behavior.

 

I'm generalizing here, and mainly drawing off my own experience with my MM. I feel like they all have some similarities though. Once you decide to take control of your own life and how you respond to them, they'll lose the power they hold over you and that is a terrifying prospect for a lot of them. So they try to keep you from feeling sure of yourself (ex: lashing out at you, making you feel low and that they hate you.. then turning around and waving at you like it's ok. I'll bet your world felt very off-kilter and so uncertain..)

[Lostgirl186]

I'm starting to think it makes him feel good when he's done something to upset me. It gives him power and makes him feel wanted. I mean that's the whole reason he slept with me in the first place.. He hadn't felt wanted in a while and then he did. I can't even begin to understand him, but I do believe e he is a narcissist. He never admitted tbis was an affair.. Never admitted he needed it like I did, or it wouldn't have happened for so long. He literally just pretends it's nothing or that I don't exist until one day we're doing something we shouldn't.

Yesterday I interofficed him an envelope with all the latest little office knick nacks he had sent over to me. That was our thing when we worked in the same location, and he would always send me more when I was out. He sent those about two weeks ago and I packed them up and sent them back with no more or anything, so he's probably gotten them by now. Maybe that will take care of the waving.

 

 

I think I'm out of tears for now, so maybe that's a good thing. I'm so angry at myself for letting my heart hurt. I knew he would do this after sex.. He always clams up. But he has never wanted to stop all communication and acutely follow thru with it. He told me if I couldn't text him then there would be no chances of a slip up... But that he wouldn't be rude if he ran into me somewhere.. Like he was doing me a favor or something?? I know him blocking me is for the best bc obviously I could never stick it out on my own accord, but it's really a slap in the face.

[imperfectangel]

Yes!! I once asked my mm (a while ago) why he used to ignore me and his answer was that he has to keep some control. I said so I'm here feeling crap so that you have control? Basic answer was yes.

 

For my mm I think it's because he doesn't have control over his real life. W's family have money, she earns more than him etc it's classic mm behaviour.

 

I hope he's enjoying his holiday because he sure won't be happy when he's back and he's no longer da man lol

 

You will get there. It's annoying because everyone says time, but it's true it really just takes time

[MidnightBlue1980]

Yes!! I once asked my mm (a while ago) why he used to ignore me and his answer was that he has to keep some control. I said so I'm here feeling crap so that you have control? Basic answer was yes.

 

For my mm I think it's because he doesn't have control over his real life. W's family have money, she earns more than him etc it's classic mm behaviour.

 

I hope he's enjoying his holiday because he sure won't be happy when he's back and he's no longer da man lol

 

You will get there. It's annoying because everyone says time, but it's true it really just takes time

 

I never thought of it like that. xMM works for his wife's family's business. He has a lot of resentment and would feel a loss of control as he gave up his job to work there.

 

About the narcissist post, I had posted I believed xMM was a sociopath. The two overlap. They are not really considered personality disorders, there is no pill to fix it. It sounds dramatic, like he is a psycho, but narcissist/sociopaths tend to fit in easily in society and only the rare ones are violent. I did a lot of reading on these conditions. It's more than a coincidence all these guys are saying the same thing. I read these posts and seriously, I could have written them.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I highlighted the ones I see in him

 

Sociopath:

 

Glibness and Superficial Charm

 

Manipulative and Conning

They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

 

Grandiose Sense of Self

Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

 

Pathological Lying

Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

 

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt

A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

 

Shallow Emotions

When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

 

Incapacity for Love

 

Need for Stimulation

Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

 

Callousness/Lack of Empathy

Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

 

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature

Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

 

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency

Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

 

Irresponsibility/Unreliability

Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

 

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity

Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

 

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle

Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

 

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Narcissistic Personality Disorder Symptoms | Psych Central

 

http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html

 

(my source for the above)

[imperfectangel]

I wouldn't say my mm is full of narcissistic or have any mental illness but it seems most do. I think my mm is just extremely emotional immature and dare I say it simple when it comes to these things.

 

Most recent example. We agreed to see each other in July. He cancelled me, I felt "done" with him. He couldn't understand why I was upset when he wanted to come the next day. He has no idea how to process other people's feelings or see things from someone else's point of view but tbh I see this as lack of life/people experience than anything else. He has had a very easy life, at least from the outside looking in.

 

I do know from what I read on her though some seem physcopathic

[rainbowsandkittens]

I once told my xMM that I was not his punching bag and he was not allowed to take his guilt or bad feelings out on me.

 

He did that to me quite a bit. Not when we texted but when we met in person and esp when we slept together.

 

I can understand feeling guilty. I can understand needing an outlet for feelings. But I'm no one's punching bag and I certainly don't want to be anyone's outlet any more.

 

We all deserve better than that.

 

I think the waving is just to keep an eye on how much you hate him. I say a double finger next time. Though if you're driving just one is probably safer.

[Lostgirl186]

I once told my xMM that I was not his punching bag and he was not allowed to take his guilt or bad feelings out on me.

 

He did that to me quite a bit. Not when we texted but when we met in person and esp when we slept together.

 

I can understand feeling guilty. I can understand needing an outlet for feelings. But I'm no one's punching bag and I certainly don't want to be anyone's outlet any more.

 

We all deserve better than that.

 

I think the waving is just to keep an eye on how much you hate him. I say a double finger next time. Though if you're driving just one is probably safer.

 

So far, I have passed him twice with two waves. I have not so much as turned my head toward him either time nor attempted anything that looked like an effort to wave back. I had huge shades on so I could cut my eyes toward him without being seen, and that's when I saw him gawk at me this morning. I wish the sorry SOB would send me a text right now. I'm going to set up an auto reply rule on my phone with something to the effect of "the caller you are trying to reach is not accepting correspondence from you. Burn in hell."

[Blu72]

How about you try to just ignore him completely including any future correspondence he may or may not send. I think he basically told you what he thought of you in no uncertain terms. What more is to discuss? I wouldnt even give him the satisfaction of a reply.

[MidnightBlue1980]

How about you try to just ignore him completely including any future correspondence he may or may not send. I think he basically told you what he thought of you in no uncertain terms. What more is to discuss? I wouldnt even give him the satisfaction of a reply.

 

I agree completely.

[imperfectangel]

How is everyone? Today I want to break nc. I don't think I'm gonna have a good day wanting to to reach out to him as soon as I woke up today so I'm gonna keep myself as busy as possible and hope it passes

[imsosad]

Angel, dont do it. Has breaks ng nc ever gotten you closer to happiness or peace of mind?

You're a mom,right? Remember childbirth? Wave of pain, thinking it cant get any worse and then it calms down?

I remember breathing through these waves of desire to break nc, breathing telling myself,this is a contraction, it will be over in a minute, keep breathing.

Fight it, it will go away.