"Destabilization Phase" and your thoughts and experience

[MidnightBlue1980]

Okay here is a post I read it was two years ago written by QuietStorm I found really interesting. Wondering what you guys think?

 

Don't know if I'm supposed to start a new thread, but this seems to be where I've been posting?

./I]

 

Added - I think its also the age of the guy. In my situation he is 46 and his wife 50. Different generation. By contrast I have a friend whose family is seriously traditional and he is filing for divorce because he is so unhappy - and there is no OW, he did not want that. They are 35.

 

Younger people today are different. They change jobs and partners with more ease.

[Poppy47]

The longer the marriage the less likely MM is to leave. Too much to lose.

 

Poppy

[MidnightBlue1980]

The longer the marriage the less likely MM is to leave. Too much to lose.

 

Poppy

 

This post has got me thinking. I admit that as the months have passed and the searing pain subsided, I've gotten lax. I've forgotten how terribly he treated me at the end, the lies he said about me, who he is and how he only wanted me for an affair, even if my own life crumbled around me.

 

I've allowed him to get inside my mind again. He's been playing the victim - "I'm sorry I couldn't leave her. I will love you always. Can't be at least be friends?"

 

How did I forget who he really is? Some posts here and the guys posting, the MM seem like decent guys who got in a mess. But not my xMM, he is not a good guy. He is a bad guy.

 

I feel like I have Stockholm syndrome.

 

Thank you for posting this Sunshine.

[Chica80]

This post has got me thinking. I admit that as the months have passed and the searing pain subsided, I've gotten lax. I've forgotten how terribly he treated me at the end, the lies he said about me, who he is and how he only wanted me for an affair, even if my own life crumbled around me.

 

I've allowed him to get inside my mind again. He's been playing the victim - "I'm sorry I couldn't leave her. I will love you always. Can't be at least be friends?"

 

How did I forget who he really is? Some posts here and the guys posting, the MM seem like decent guys who got in a mess. But not my xMM, he is not a good guy. He is a bad guy.

 

I feel like I have Stockholm syndrome.

 

Thank you for posting this Sunshine.

 

Ya midnight from the things you say about him. He sounds like a complete jerk!! He has no feelings or care in regard to anyone but himself. Not his wife not you.

 

So agree about the generation thing!!! Not exactly sure if that's good or bad?

[Chica80]

This post just really got me thinking along with a couple others I have read recently....they are not the blanket issued statements...but more insightful I think.

 

Anyway the reason it got me thinking. If you remember he was not married when we started. There has never been I love yous or future faking. So none of the typical "lies, no sex, no love etc" which creates a whole other sets of questions I guess.....Ive met his wife like I said before she seems very sweet and kind (not being sarcastic) we could not be more opposite.

 

Yesterday we had a conversation. I told him maybe it makes him feel better if we are still friends but not necessarily better for me. I'm angry at him. Angry that he has no reasons, to give.

 

That things continued for so long. He said I pushed him as well. I said I agree, the difference was once things started I wasn't going back hm and being something else, i wasnt with two people. Lying. We were together before you got married you went into your marriage lying. Lying. And continue to, that makes me angry. (I understand this may not make sense)

 

Anyways I'm not sure if my point makes sense, but the point is...I said something about him needing me. He said yes but it was selfish unfair to me. When reading this I thought. It made some kind of sense. Not to take anything away from her (I really don't know much about her) we are just very different. So I must give him something to continue....Am I ok with that though just giving he gets two....and I get what?

[Outofmysystem]

Blue, Ya know, I couldn't tell you if my xOW would think I was a good guy or not......I can tell you, from our brief conversation last week and subsequent text later that night, when I was sarcastic to her because she was coming up for reasons that she couldn't get together, she basically shut me down with a, "see, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about", and that she didn't need that bull**** right now.....now, I get what's she's feeling right now because she is divorced but hasn't moved yet till the first of the month.....and her X screwed her over (I've since found out) with the money stuff......but she has been so tight with her feelings since she shut it down, she may actually feel just like y'all, that I'm an ******* that only thinks about himself.....

 

And, I'm married still.....just trying to "clean" up the pieces but that may never happen, oh.....and yes the song is somewhat depressing, but still good

Edited July 27, 2016 by Outofmysystem

[Chica80]

Blue, Ya know, I couldn't tell you if my xOW would think I was a good guy or not......I can tell you, from our brief conversation last week and subsequent text later that night, when I was sarcastic to her because she was coming up for reasons that she couldn't get together, she basically shut me down with a, "see, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about", and that she didn't need that bull**** right now.....now, I get what's she's feeling right now because she is divorced but hasn't moved yet till the first of the month.....and her X screwed her over (I've since found out) with the money stuff......but she has been so tight with her feelings since she shut it down, she may actually feel just like y'all, that I'm an ******* that only thinks about himself.....

 

And, I'm married still.....just trying to "clean" up the pieces but that may never happen, oh.....and yes the song is somewhat depressing, but still good

 

I don't know if this will help. You've given me insightful info into a OM brain. Here is some other OW brain....

 

You said she was in an abusive relationship. You went back to working on your marriage... But you also once said you always imagined you would end of together...there were no plans that way though. (I'm not advocating leaving your marriage)

Words and feelings aren't enough.

 

Sometimes I feel my AP has no right to feel sad. Or upset, he will say things like his heart is broken. He will find a way to manage.... Do whatever is best for me. I get angry because I feel, You chose to get married. YOU don't want to be in this type of duality and relationship. What right do you have to be upset or hurt. Because you have me I haven't gone anywhere.

I know you said that she ended things. Maybe she got tired of feeling less than in her marriage.

And not enough for you to leave your marriage. She is also not in a place to be very trusting of anyone.

 

I could be totally wrong just my thoughts.

 

 

P.S. You don't sound at all like Midnights xMM....sorry Midnight

[Outofmysystem]

Chika, thanks for the "look" into her mind.....that does help more than you know, and yes....towards the end she said several times when plans would get canceled by me that she "knew what her place was", "second and back burner".....

[Chica80]

Chika, thanks for the "look" into her mind.....that does help more than you know, and yes....towards the end she said several times when plans would get canceled by me that she "knew what her place was", "second and back burner".....

 

No one wants to be second, or the back up...It gets tiring.

 

Sometimes I tell myself, (when in delusional phase) ya its fine being on the side...it works for now etc....doesn't last long. Especially don't like thinking I'm suffering and secret meanwhile I'm what keeps you stable in your marriage...that's why that post got me thinking.

 

I don't think A are about the BS...do some contribute to the dynamic absolutely...

 

But in the end its about us what are we trying to fix, or not fix for that matter.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I don't know if this will help. You've given me insightful info into a OM brain. Here is some other OW brain....

 

You said she was in an abusive relationship. You went back to working on your marriage... But you also once said you always imagined you would end of together...there were no plans that way though. (I'm not advocating leaving your marriage)

Words and feelings aren't enough.

 

Sometimes I feel my AP has no right to feel sad. Or upset, he will say things like his heart is broken. He will find a way to manage.... Do whatever is best for me. I get angry because I feel, You chose to get married. YOU don't want to be in this type of duality and relationship. What right do you have to be upset or hurt. Because you have me I haven't gone anywhere.

I know you said that she ended things. Maybe she got tired of feeling less than in her marriage.

And not enough for you to leave your marriage. She is also not in a place to be very trusting of anyone.

 

I could be totally wrong just my thoughts.

 

 

P.S. You don't sound at all like Midnights xMM....sorry Midnight

 

Thanks. I can't trust my own judgement with xMM as I'm too involved but I trust the opinion of two guys who know both of us and said he was not a good guy. My H said that too but again, he is not impartial. xMM says things like Out says but I feel like he is just trying to manipulate me. All I know is that he was horrible to me at the end and for 5 months, coming back only to lie more.

 

But like you said Sunshine, your xMM is choosing to stay in his marriage. I'm married and I agree with you, he could leave if he was really upset and wanted to be with you. He is not in a chinese prison. He just wants both, like my xMM. I'm still married for one reason only, my H basically held the marriage together. I told him that I wanted xMM to leave his wife for me, he knows everything, and I said we should divorce anyway (even though xMM wasn't there). H said no, he wanted to work it out. Meanwhile xMM lied to his wife, she knows some of it but he said it was all me - I pursued him - and it was her, his wife, all her problems - weight gain, no sex, money, and so on. He is the victim here, forced into an affair.

 

I don't think Out or the other guys here are telling the OW how sad they are. That is why they post here. For your xMM to tell you that stuff, I feel its manipulation and I agree with you, he could leave if he wanted. I would not feel sorry for him at all.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Blue, Ya know, I couldn't tell you if my xOW would think I was a good guy or not......I can tell you, from our brief conversation last week and subsequent text later that night, when I was sarcastic to her because she was coming up for reasons that she couldn't get together, she basically shut me down with a, "see, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about", and that she didn't need that bull**** right now.....now, I get what's she's feeling right now because she is divorced but hasn't moved yet till the first of the month.....and her X screwed her over (I've since found out) with the money stuff......but she has been so tight with her feelings since she shut it down, she may actually feel just like y'all, that I'm an ******* that only thinks about himself.....

 

And, I'm married still.....just trying to "clean" up the pieces but that may never happen, oh.....and yes the song is somewhat depressing, but still good

 

Out - does your wife know?

[Chica80]

Thanks. I can't trust my own judgement with xMM as I'm too involved but I trust the opinion of two guys who know both of us and said he was not a good guy. My H said that too but again, he is not impartial. xMM says things like Out says but I feel like he is just trying to manipulate me. All I know is that he was horrible to me at the end and for 5 months, coming back only to lie more.

 

But like you said Sunshine, your xMM is choosing to stay in his marriage. I'm married and I agree with you, he could leave if he was really upset and wanted to be with you. He is not in a chinese prison. He just wants both, like my xMM. I'm still married for one reason only, my H basically held the marriage together. I told him that I wanted xMM to leave his wife for me, he knows everything, and I said we should divorce anyway (even though xMM wasn't there). H said no, he wanted to work it out. Meanwhile xMM lied to his wife, she knows some of it but he said it was all me - I pursued him - and it was her, his wife, all her problems - weight gain, no sex, money, and so on. He is the victim here, forced into an affair.

 

I don't think Out or the other guys here are telling the OW how sad they are. That is why they post here. For your xMM to tell you that stuff, I feel its manipulation and I agree with you, he could leave if he wanted. I would not feel sorry for him at all.

 

Not that I want to "defend him" I really do think my MM is a "good guy" I think he is conflict avoidant. He doesn't want anyone to be hurt.... but instead he just ends up hurting everyone. He doesnt willingly tell me he is sad or things are hard. He won't ever say he misses me or text me if I don't text first. Like I said none of the lies.

He will say these things about a broken heart etc when I'm angry and we are in an argument. Is it manipulative ....ya maybe.

 

Of course I want to be with him. But if he did that leave he would not be the man I fell in love with. I know sounds ironic. That's why I say it's not about him or my BS. It's about me. Why am I here?

[MidnightBlue1980]

Not that I want to "defend him" I really do think my MM is a "good guy" I think he is conflict avoidant. He doesn't want anyone to be hurt.... but instead he just ends up hurting everyone. He doesnt willingly tell me he is sad or things are hard. He won't ever say he misses me or text me if I don't text first. Like I said none of the lies.

He will say these things about a broken heart etc when I'm angry and we are in an argument. Is it manipulative ....ya maybe.

 

Of course I want to be with him. But if he did that leave he would not be the man I fell in love with. I know sounds ironic. That's why I say it's not about him or my BS. It's about me. Why am I here?

 

Sunshine you are here because you have lessons to learn. That is why we all are here.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Not that I want to "defend him" I really do think my MM is a "good guy" I think he is conflict avoidant. He doesn't want anyone to be hurt.... but instead he just ends up hurting everyone. He doesnt willingly tell me he is sad or things are hard. He won't ever say he misses me or text me if I don't text first. Like I said none of the lies.

He will say these things about a broken heart etc when I'm angry and we are in an argument. Is it manipulative ....ya maybe.

 

Of course I want to be with him. But if he did that leave he would not be the man I fell in love with. I know sounds ironic. That's why I say it's not about him or my BS. It's about me. Why am I here?

 

This is a long thread. Many people have come in and out of it. I'm not sure who will read this. I've been struggling again recently. I had a mini mental breakthrough I wanted to share. I got emotionally involved with xMM over a year ago because he was having health issues and he said how his wife did not care, was not interested in helping him, sexually rejected him, would not work to help out and a long list of other reasons. Without going into it all, trust me that it was all true.

 

Anyway, so I went on to get all involved and help with all these health/sex and other issues, filling the void she did not occupy. He had said he had married the wrong woman and couldn't believe I cared about him - all the typical stuff. Anyway, here I am today, D Day and he stayed but not much has changed on his end. She still is who she is. Not putting her down, that is not my point.

 

Here is my point - all this time I did not understand - why would someone chose to be with someone who does not care much about them? I could not wrap my head around this. Today my friend, wrestling with whether to divorce his wife who also treats him very poorly, was telling me all the various little and big things he does for her. I have no vested interest in this outcome, I just listen. But I was amazed that both guys treat these women so well, yet both are poorly treated (in their own ways, its besides the fact the specifics). My friend is clearly still in love with his wife, even though there is another guy and she is not good to him, and a lightbulb went off in my head.

 

xMM was in love with his wife all along. I don't know why people like people who treat them like crap and reject those who treat them well but xMM is where he really wants to be. He says often, I wish I could leave, but he really doesn't or he wouldn't do all these same things. He really loves her even though she doesn't care.

 

I feel like such an idiot, all this time. I've been knocking myself out helping him. I should have been cold and mean. Apparently that is what he likes.

 

I don't get men. Of course some women are like this too. We all want someone who treats us like a pile of garbage.

[mjsk]

I have been involved in an affair for over 2 1/2 yrs now. We both tried to end it numerous times but would always end up back to the "hey how are you how's things" which of course turns into us seeing eachother again and starting the cycle all over again, till one of us says we need to end this and NC for some weeks and then bam. Its a vicious cycle. We just seem to go back to that place of HELLO HOW ARE YOU. Right now we haven't made any contact in a week. I actually just told him other day that I need to cut all ties from him.

[Chica80]

Sunshine you are here because you have lessons to learn. That is why we all are here.

 

Yes

MjSK. That was the original point of this post I believe by OP.... the cycle. The destabilization phase.

 

Midnight personally I keep posting on this thread because I have found the ones who post on this thread know my story. I theirs, and they have made helpful points and insights.

 

I'm sorry that you are in so much pain. I'm curious to know, you said your husband was ok with you being with someone else why is that? Do you have an open relationship?

 

Your MM definitely used you emotionally physically and that feels awful. He lied about his true intentions and now that he got what he wanted out of it had left you to pick up the pieces.

 

For me personally I think the relationship was an attempt to heal myself, my inner pain. All I have done is create more pain...but time and IC is helping with that. I haven't totally extracted myself, at least not emotionally, physically yes but I am slowly.....it's what has seemed to work for ME so far.

 

Your not alone...

[ladydesigner]

This is a long thread. Many people have come in and out of it. I'm not sure who will read this. I've been struggling again recently. I had a mini mental breakthrough I wanted to share. I got emotionally involved with xMM over a year ago because he was having health issues and he said how his wife did not care, was not interested in helping him, sexually rejected him, would not work to help out and a long list of other reasons. Without going into it all, trust me that it was all true.

 

Anyway, so I went on to get all involved and help with all these health/sex and other issues, filling the void she did not occupy. He had said he had married the wrong woman and couldn't believe I cared about him - all the typical stuff. Anyway, here I am today, D Day and he stayed but not much has changed on his end. She still is who she is. Not putting her down, that is not my point.

 

Here is my point - all this time I did not understand - why would someone chose to be with someone who does not care much about them? I could not wrap my head around this. Today my friend, wrestling with whether to divorce his wife who also treats him very poorly, was telling me all the various little and big things he does for her. I have no vested interest in this outcome, I just listen. But I was amazed that both guys treat these women so well, yet both are poorly treated (in their own ways, its besides the fact the specifics). My friend is clearly still in love with his wife, even though there is another guy and she is not good to him, and a lightbulb went off in my head.

 

xMM was in love with his wife all along. I don't know why people like people who treat them like crap and reject those who treat them well but xMM is where he really wants to be. He says often, I wish I could leave, but he really doesn't or he wouldn't do all these same things. He really loves her even though she doesn't care.

 

I feel like such an idiot, all this time. I've been knocking myself out helping him. I should have been cold and mean. Apparently that is what he likes.

 

I don't get men. Of course some women are like this too. We all want someone who treats us like a pile of garbage.

 

When I look back at where our problems began in our M it started when I had my first child and the attention shifted form him to the baby. Now I still took care of my WH and we were intimate he just wasn't the center of the universe anymore. He started changing. He didn't help with child rearing and rarely came home on time. this eventually began to wear me down and in turn I started to withdraw emotionally, in his eyes I must not care about him.

 

I think there are many reasons that can cause a partner to withdraw. I do think most MM paint their situations in their best interest.

[ladydesigner]

I should have been cold and mean. Apparently that is what he likes.

I don't get men. Of course some women are like this too. We all want someone who treats us like a pile of garbage.

 

Gosh I hear you. I often think I slowly became WH's mother because he would do things that would put me in a position to act that way...ugh My WH had an abusive childhood so I do think he tries to recreate this type of chaos in our M.

[Ronnie33]

Not that I want to "defend him" I really do think my MM is a "good guy" I think he is conflict avoidant. He doesn't want anyone to be hurt.... but instead he just ends up hurting everyone. He doesnt willingly tell me he is sad or things are hard. He won't ever say he misses me or text me if I don't text first. Like I said none of the lies.

He will say these things about a broken heart etc when I'm angry and we are in an argument. Is it manipulative ....ya maybe.

 

Of course I want to be with him. But if he did that leave he would not be the man I fell in love with. I know sounds ironic. That's why I say it's not about him or my BS. It's about me. Why am I here?

 

This is how I feel about my AP. We were friends for a year first so I know he's a good guy who is just doing a really bad thing like me. Neither one of us planned this. He is a big conflict avoider and that has been the main cause of most of our fights over the years. I'm very emotional and in your face type of person and he's not. He hates any kind of conflict.

[Outofmysystem]

Blue, no, there was no D-Day on either end.....that said, xMOW has divorced her xH as of 2 weeks ago, is about to move out and into her own house.....my M has gone on like nothing has happened, in fact a change in job (and hours) and not putting my "extra" time in my x has helped us......now, the issues that I had with my W are still there but not as pronounced as before, so I've worked on myself and my thoughts and have tried to be better......but I still have some sort of feelings for my X, the chemistry was a match....I know, cliche, but true none the less.....

 

And I liked your, "men" comment.....that thought of wtf goes both ways, lol....

[Ronnie33]

I haven't been on for about a week. I've had family in town. Anyway he has been texting me everyday begging me to meet him. I've said no and kept my distance but it's wearing on me and making me miss him. I know I shouldn't and I told him we are drugs for eachother and need to stop. He's getting married in two months and that's who he chose. He said he can't stop thinking about me and hates this and that he needs to see me and touch me. I told him I'm like a drug and he's withdrawing and so am I but this is the only way. I can't be there when he gets married. I never wanted to be a mistress and yet that's what I became. He said neither of is planned this but now we are so far in that he can't imagine not being with eachother.

 

I believe he had feelings for me, I know he does but he has a fiance who will do anything for him. What the hell does he need me for.

It's selfish and I know it, we give eachother this sick thing.

 

Anyway I'm posting here because I want to be strong. I can't go back. I told him that, it's too hard and it hurts too much but I still love him.

 

I didn't tell him that part though.

 

Ugh anyway that's my update. I love this thread and I care for everyone you. I get it and understand it all.

[Outofmysystem]

Mjsk welcome........been there, 6 years for me.....

[Ronnie33]

I have been involved in an affair for over 2 1/2 yrs now. We both tried to end it numerous times but would always end up back to the "hey how are you how's things" which of course turns into us seeing eachother again and starting the cycle all over again, till one of us says we need to end this and NC for some weeks and then bam. Its a vicious cycle. We just seem to go back to that place of HELLO HOW ARE YOU. Right now we haven't made any contact in a week. I actually just told him other day that I need to cut all ties from him.

 

Been there for three years. The "hey how are you" texts are infamous. It always leads back.

[Outofmysystem]

Ronnie, I feel your "need"......the high for me after we were together was better than any drug I could ever have.......it's amazing what someone can do to bring out chemicals that are already in your brain!

[Ronnie33]

Ronnie, I feel your "need"......the high for me after we were together was better than any drug I could ever have.......it's amazing what someone can do to bring out chemicals that are already in your brain!

 

Yea, but the lows after we leave are worse. He loves the highs but I feel the lows more because I'm a female. I know he cares for me, I think part of him is still in love with me. It's just not enough anymore but the need for eachother is so intense. It's really like a drug.