"Destabilization Phase" and your thoughts and experience

[MidnightBlue1980]

I actually looked back on my emails and realised we last had contact on Sunday so I'm basically at day 7 nc already which is great. He'll kick himself for giving me this space to think things over lol hahahaha

 

You seem to have a very different situation than me. Your xMM drove 3 hours to see you. Ugh. I can see that being so tough. Mine is actually easier, I did fall in love with him but he is such a colossal ahole, it makes it easier for me. I still have my feelings but I see your story, and it's tough.

 

I cannot begin to guess why he drove all that way. I actually don't think it was just for sex, men are pretty lazy, but at the end of the day, does it really matter? Unless you are all going to move to Utah here, you can never be with him. Maybe he really does love you, maybe he is the greatest guy in the world - but he is not yours. I am so sorry to say this, you are not his number one. So you must move on and find the guy who makes you his number one. You deserve that. Think of your child. Daughter? She deserves to see mom as demanding to be number one. I have a daughter. They look up to us. They will replicate our lives in their lives. Do you want this life for her?

 

I hope you don't think I am harsh. I'm not. I've just wasted so much time on this guy. I'm trying to help someone else.

 

PS You are really young. Plenty of time. I did not have my kids till 36-38. But you need to move on now. Just let go.

[imperfectangel]

I agree MB, hat is what I am trying to do. I have no desire to contact him. I'm glad I saw him as it gave me closure. I'm sure right now he's thinking everything is all good but I really just don't have the energy anymore.

 

I keep repeating to myself that he's where he wants to be with who he wants to be with though when I said this to him he was all no I want you but who did he go on holiday with last week? Exactly.

 

He told me he'll always be married and I told him I don't want an affair so there is no where to go with this anymore.

 

I just hope he leaves me alone though I'm not blocking him as if he plans to turn up to my house again I'd like a heads up and if I block him I won't get that. I should be moving soon anyway so at least then he won't know where I am but that could be a year away.

[Adoraxx]

I agree MB, hat is what I am trying to do. I have no desire to contact him. I'm glad I saw him as it gave me closure. I'm sure right now he's thinking everything is all good but I really just don't have the energy anymore.

 

I keep repeating to myself that he's where he wants to be with who he wants to be with though when I said this to him he was all no I want you but who did he go on holiday with last week? Exactly.

 

He told me he'll always be married and I told him I don't want an affair so there is no where to go with this anymore.

 

I just hope he leaves me alone though I'm not blocking him as if he plans to turn up to my house again I'd like a heads up and if I block him I won't get that. I should be moving soon anyway so at least then he won't know where I am but that could be a year away.

 

I thought about you this morning, angel, and I thought about me moving away and I wondered if my xMM would drive the 1 1/2 hour distance... Just like your MM drove 3 hours. xMM once told me (years ago) that he would come see me if I would move even if I lived hours and hours away... I don't think he will though. But then I thought 'what if he would?' and then I know that he would only come if he would think that he could get something from me and that's sex of course... And he is not going to get that from me ever again (and I think he knows that) so he won't show up.

 

So honestly, I do think that your MM came to see you because he had sex on his mind . It says enough that you felt used after he left...?

I hope you can move in about a year like you said... I hope you won't give him your new address, I certainly won't give my new address to him!! I hate having to feel again like he can appear any minute, I hate not knowing what's going to happen/ I hate waiting for him even though you try not to, so I understand what you mean with you feel like you can't block him because then you won't know what's going to happen...

 

I really hope he won't drive the 3 hour drive again!!!!

 

Hugs!!

[imperfectangel]

Well I was telling him not to come. I told him repeatedly that I did not want to see or speak to him and he said he can't leave it like this I need to see you etc etc so when he came to mine (only knew what street I was on) he didn't even know if I would let him in. I made it very clear I did not want to see him. And he came anyway.

 

I fell in love a little more I must admit that he still came. I doubt anyone else would do that for me. But it doesn't change our current situation so it doesn't even matter anymore.

[Adoraxx]

Adoraxx, don't let him know when you are leaving exactly because it would be classic for him to pull some grand manipulating gesture to try to stop you. Midnight, your decision of no response is best. Faking it til you make it in finding indifference. I couldn't help but giggle at the thought of if you responded to exMM email with the "wrong kind of crazy, I'm outside your house". It wouldn't be quite the response he was baiting you for.

 

Hi Anne, I certainly won't let him know the exact date when I'll be leaving. There is no way that he can stop me from moving (we bought a house and they're still busy building it but it should be finished in Oct), but he already said things : "Ohhh when the moving van comes, I'll come to your house while they're loading all your stuff in, and I'll say goodbye!" (all very impersonal - as if I'm just one of the other neighbors - as if he only knows me from greeting - as if we never had a past!!)

I said: "oh wow, that's such a personal way to do it".... ugh!

 

So.... I'm not going to tell him the exact date (I don't even know the exact date yet) and I'll make sure to plan it on a day where I know for sure that he'll be at work!!! And then he'll come home from work and I'll be GONE!!!!!!!!! He'll probably have a big party anyway once I'm gone, I feel like he hates me yet when it pleases him, he'll try to play a little with my feelings.

[Adoraxx]

Well I was telling him not to come. I told him repeatedly that I did not want to see or speak to him and he said he can't leave it like this I need to see you etc etc so when he came to mine (only knew what street I was on) he didn't even know if I would let him in. I made it very clear I did not want to see him. And he came anyway.

 

I fell in love a little more I must admit that he still came. I doubt anyone else would do that for me. But it doesn't change our current situation so it doesn't even matter anymore.

 

I read an interesting article yesterday about how a narcissist (not sure if your MM is one) will try to do one of two things: control you or trying to validate his control...

 

After reading what you wrote, I'm thinking that your MM tried to validate his control. You told him specifically NOT to come, yet he came anyway. He wasn't sure if he still had you under his thumb, he wasn't sure if you were still 'there' (willing and waiting), in fact he heard you tell him that you didn't even WANT to see or speak to him!!! So he decided to get into his car to validate his control once again... To make sure that you're still 'there'. What do you think?

 

Here's the article: The Narcissist's Control/Validate Tactic is Simplified Evil | Narcissistic Partners & the Relationship Agenda

[imperfectangel]

I read an interesting article yesterday about how a narcissist (not sure if your MM is one) will try to do one of two things: control you or trying to validate his control...

 

After reading what you wrote, I'm thinking that your MM tried to validate his control. You told him specifically NOT to come, yet he came anyway. He wasn't sure if he still had you under his thumb, he wasn't sure if you were still 'there' (willing and waiting), in fact he heard you tell him that you didn't even WANT to see or speak to him!!! So he decided to get into his car to validate his control once again... To make sure that you're still 'there'. What do you think?

 

Here's the article: The Narcissist's Control/Validate Tactic is Simplified Evil | Narcissistic Partners & the Relationship Agenda

 

Great link! Yes he is definitely a controlling person I've seen that in him before BUT I do think he's more controlling with "us" because he has no control in his marriage/home. She earns more than him and I know that gets to him. Like I said he is all set there, financially and of course everyone thinks he's family man of the year.

 

Before he came round I ignored him for a week. His emails/phone calls and texts all went unanswered. But he wouldn't stop texting which is why I was replied to him in the first place (my son was trying to play on my phone and it was irritating his name kept popping up)

 

I've now changed his name to ignore in my phone

[Grey Cloud]

Well I was telling him not to come. I told him repeatedly that I did not want to see or speak to him and he said he can't leave it like this I need to see you etc etc so when he came to mine (only knew what street I was on) he didn't even know if I would let him in. I made it very clear I did not want to see him. And he came anyway.

 

I fell in love a little more I must admit that he still came. I doubt anyone else would do that for me. But it doesn't change our current situation so it doesn't even matter anymore.

 

Hi Angel, the fact that you ignored him for a week and told him not to come is the reason why he drove 3 hours to see you. It would have driven him crazy not knowing whether he still had you/ were still into him!! I bet if you had of been pleading with him to visit he wouldn't have. It's the whole push/pull thing.

 

I know you were viewing it as a noble act but what would be more noble is if he drove 3 hours to see you to say he had chosen you and was getting a divorce. The fact he said he would always be married means nothing will ever change. I think you are doing the right thing by going back into NC.

[Grey Cloud]

You have to understand that this guy pursued me, he is not attractive at all, short, overweight, balding and cannot get or keep a hard-on. People who know say, I don't know what you are seeing, he is not a catch. I'm not a supermodel but I'm at the least, pretty attractive. I guess we all are here, aren't we? All these guys, they like to hook up with us for a reason. No guy cheats with an ugly chick. I bet most of us are pretty hot.

 

This made me laugh because I was in exactly the same boat! My xmm is short, overweight and if he was a stranger walking down the street I would not be attracted to him in the slightest! He had no problems getting a hard on but had issues with premature ejaculation. We held off 8 months on actually having sex (our affair was mostly emotional) and let me tell you it was such a disappointment when after all the build up and hype I was left with less than 2 mins of action! I thought it could have been a one off but nope!! I was stupid enough to go back for more and left feeling disappointed/deflated each time. A lot of people claim affair sex is amazing and the best they ever had. So far from the truth in my case!

 

I still can't believe the hold this guy had/has over me even though we are over and in NC. I knew he was a womaniser and I was the women stupid enough to fall for it. I don't know what I ever saw in him. I knew him at work for two years before anything happened. He was never on my radar.

Edited August 14, 2016 by Grey Cloud

[imperfectangel]

Hi Angel, the fact that you ignored him for a week and told him not to come is the reason why he drove 3 hours to see you. It would have driven him crazy not knowing whether he still had you/ were still into him!! I bet if you had of been pleading with him to visit he wouldn't have. It's the whole push/pull thing.

 

I know you were viewing it as a noble act but what would be more noble is if he drove 3 hours to see you to say he had chosen you and was getting a divorce. The fact he said he would always be married means nothing will ever change. I think you are doing the right thing by going back into NC.

 

I think the romantic in me will always see it as a noble act. I've been in unofficial nc for a week now and I feel ok. I'm not checking my phone all the time I don't WANT him to contact me, I just want to let it all go now.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Great link! Yes he is definitely a controlling person I've seen that in him before BUT I do think he's more controlling with "us" because he has no control in his marriage/home. She earns more than him and I know that gets to him. Like I said he is all set there, financially and of course everyone thinks he's family man of the year.

 

Before he came round I ignored him for a week. His emails/phone calls and texts all went unanswered. But he wouldn't stop texting which is why I was replied to him in the first place (my son was trying to play on my phone and it was irritating his name kept popping up)

 

I've now changed his name to ignore in my phone

 

Here's what I am thinking currently about xMM for me, angel, adoraxx, lemon and any other guy who is continuing to contact a woman who has made it clear that she has strong feelings for him and is not happy with an A - it's selfish and cruel. That's the bottom line.

 

Call it a personality disorder, call it whatever excuse he uses or wants to call it and justify his behavior, I call it selfish and cruel to do to another human being. If you don't really want someone, you are cruel to be kind - you cut it off, set them free so they can get over you and go on their way. We've all been there, dated or married some guy, cut him loose. You don't keep playing with people like they are toys, there only to amuse you.

 

This goes for both genders. I see some guys posting here. Women can be evil too. No one should use another person for their enjoyment.

 

For me, what he wrote the other day to me, just highlighted to me that I am a toy to him and he plays this game. And somehow I wiped last year out of my mind. We had a D Day before December - December was when he told his wife and dropped me for 5 months. The first one was actually last August, when my H found out. We'd only been seeing each other a month and xMM had spent last summer heavily pursuing me, encouraging me to trust him, "let my walls down" and eventually putting enough pressure on me till I gave in and slept with him. 2 days after that, I was so messed up that I just left my phone out and H saw an 'I love you' text.

 

H called xMM and xMM was so scared of H - that his wife would find out that he completely dropped me for the month of September. xMM did the exact same behavior he is doing now, he contacted me but said he could only be a friend and so on. As H was seeing someone and we decided to try something unconventional for a while, xMM resurfaced and felt safer that his wife was not going to find out.

 

But somehow I had forgotten how terrible I felt in September, I just blocked it out. This is the 3rd time he is doing this to me. The last 2 times I was so deep in the fog, all I wanted was his love back. This time is different. I see him for what he is - selfish and a jerk to me. I'm done. I'm out.

 

In fact, my fog is lifting and I am seeing what a huge mess has become as I've spent the last year consumed with xMM. I mean that literally - this morning I am cleaning up my bedroom and putting away winter clothes and hanging up my summer clothes. I should have done this in May. It is August. I could give a lot of examples but I won't write a long, boring novel but I'm just like, omg, I've had my head up my a** for a year. I don't even know when my kids start school. WTF.

 

You all have really helped me - besides having a place to vent, it helps to see that there was nothing special about my relationship with him, it was all typical BS and a bunch of lies and how deep in denial I have been over it.

[MidnightBlue1980]

This made me laugh because I was in exactly the same boat! My xmm is short, overweight and if he was a stranger walking down the street I would not be attracted to him in the slightest! He had no problems getting a hard on but had issues with premature ejaculation. We held off 8 months on actually having sex (our affair was mostly emotional) and let me tell you it was such a disappointment when after all the build up and hype I was left with less than 2 mins of action! I thought it could have been a one off but nope!! I was stupid enough to go back for more and left feeling disappointed/deflated each time. A lot of people claim affair sex is amazing and the best they ever had. So far from the truth in my case!

 

I still can't believe the hold this guy had/has over me even though we are over and in NC. I knew he was a womaniser and I was the women stupid enough to fall for it. I don't know what I ever saw in him. I knew him at work for two years before anything happened. He was never on my radar.

 

It was the worst for me too. He could never get it up without a lot of work on my part and he'd finish in seconds. The first time, he came on my leg. The second time was 30 seconds. The last time he could not get hard at all. 3 strikes you are out. He had blamed his wife for his sexual problems because she is pretty overweight and unattractive and just lay there. It was all him. But he took no responsibility, didn't even say he was sorry. I think he thought it was normal.

 

I totally relate to what you are saying!! I knew him for 2 years as well but really never talked to him. The few guys who know said they really question my choice of guy and believe I had a mid life crisis as there is really nothing special about xMM.

 

You felt deflated. Me too - no pun intended.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I think the romantic in me will always see it as a noble act. I've been in unofficial nc for a week now and I feel ok. I'm not checking my phone all the time I don't WANT him to contact me, I just want to let it all go now.

 

You will have to be strong. He is not going to just go away. 11 years and he drove 3 hours to see you? He likes you in his little box on his toy shelf. He probably has no idea you are even in NC. He is off, living his life. He will be back. I'm not sure just ignoring will work, the guy will show up at your doorstep. You are going to have to send the same consistent message - I am not interested in an affair or friendship with you or any married man anymore. Please don't contact me.

[imperfectangel]

You will have to be strong. He is not going to just go away. 11 years and he drove 3 hours to see you? He likes you in his little box on his toy shelf. He probably has no idea you are even in NC. He is off, living his life. He will be back. I'm not sure just ignoring will work, the guy will show up at your doorstep. You are going to have to send the same consistent message - I am not interested in an affair or friendship with you or any married man anymore. Please don't contact me.

 

I'm on my phone so can't multi quote so I'll try to reply to the points I can.

 

I have to lol at the mediocre sex, mm couldn't last more than 10 seconds except for 1 time. When he was round last, he came before I even touched him. He said that was the effect I had on him. I need an emoji here.

 

I know what you mean about having your head up your arse. I'm the same I see my friends sometimes and they're like "you're miles away" mm is all consuming

 

I'm aware he won't just disappear I'm gonna have to reply sometimes as like you said I don't want him just turning up I plan on being so sorry I'm soooooooo super busy

 

It's a shame because we're very compatible but he has no plans to leave so that's why it has to end I don't want to get yo my 40s and still be in this situation I've had it my whole life. Enough is enough

[MidnightBlue1980]

I'm on my phone so can't multi quote so I'll try to reply to the points I can.

 

I have to lol at the mediocre sex, mm couldn't last more than 10 seconds except for 1 time. When he was round last, he came before I even touched him. He said that was the effect I had on him. I need an emoji here.

 

I know what you mean about having your head up your arse. I'm the same I see my friends sometimes and they're like "you're miles away" mm is all consuming

 

I'm aware he won't just disappear I'm gonna have to reply sometimes as like you said I don't want him just turning up I plan on being so sorry I'm soooooooo super busy

 

It's a shame because we're very compatible but he has no plans to leave so that's why it has to end I don't want to get yo my 40s and still be in this situation I've had it my whole life. Enough is enough

 

Wait a minute. He drove 3 hours and he came before even touched him? That is really bad and must have been very disappointing. I am not sure how experienced you are but unless a guy is 13, that shouldn't happen. It's BS he blamed you, even though yes, he said it as a joke.

 

Ok, the 10 seconds thing, that as well - I don't want to say it's not normal, as I have not taken a poll, but it's definitely not a good trait in a guy. xMM was like that, as I mentioned. It did make it really easy to give total BJ though, something I have never been successful at, he was my first.

 

11 years of 10 second sex - good grief. You need to get out there. Trust me, many guys can control that stuff and you are actually able to enjoy it and have an orgasm. That alone should be motivation for you.

[imperfectangel]

Wait a minute. He drove 3 hours and he came before even touched him? That is really bad and must have been very disappointing. I am not sure how experienced you are but unless a guy is 13, that shouldn't happen. It's BS he blamed you, even though yes, he said it as a joke.

 

Ok, the 10 seconds thing, that as well - I don't want to say it's not normal, as I have not taken a poll, but it's definitely not a good trait in a guy. xMM was like that, as I mentioned. It did make it really easy to give total BJ though, something I have never been successful at, he was my first.

 

11 years of 10 second sex - good grief. You need to get out there. Trust me, many guys can control that stuff and you are actually able to enjoy it and have an orgasm. That alone should be motivation for you.

 

 

Lol we've actually only had sex 3 times. That's why I think sometimes it's more than just sex. I have seen others while all this has been going on so I know it's def not normal. The actual sex isn't all that great no but everything else is AMAZING trust me I am more than satisfied when he leaves without getting too graphic on LS.

 

What he's like with his wife I have no idea he's never commented on it and id rather not ask tbh

[MidnightBlue1980]

Lol we've actually only had sex 3 times. That's why I think sometimes it's more than just sex. I have seen others while all this has been going on so I know it's def not normal. The actual sex isn't all that great no but everything else is AMAZING trust me I am more than satisfied when he leaves without getting too graphic on LS.

 

What he's like with his wife I have no idea he's never commented on it and id rather not ask tbh

 

Ah, okay. I read between the lines. Many women like that other stuff. I understand.

 

I'm impressed you never asked about his wife. I am really good at asking personal questions and have made xMM very uncomfortable. In my defense, part of my professional job is asking prying, personal questions and xMM offered up a lot of very personal information. I guess its okay if he offers it, but not if I ask. For example, he said her labia were dis-formed, they hang really low. He actually used the words - beef curtains. I had to google it which I do not recommend. I had to ask a guy to understand what it meant. It's not good. To me, that is so personal and TMI. But I asked if he is having sex and he is offended. Whoo knows.

[imperfectangel]

I think because I a tually want to be with him it is different. If he knows I've been seeing someone he wants every detail, it turns him on but for me it's just too much the less I know the better. He's told me before they hardly ever do it but how true that is I have no idea

 

It's strange your mm told you about his wife that's so personal and so disrespectful for him to be telling other people

[ShatteredLady]

I can't believe he said that! Horrible!

 

I've had a lot of cancer related surgery. Makes he want to never have anything to do with a man again!

[Outofmysystem]

I have to say, I liked the quote of "being out of their league", one of my friends said that to me that knows the details of my A and X (we all worked together).....he said, "not to be rude, but (X) isn't all of that"....that said, like all of you, there was more to it than just looks....and I too am attractive, and she was the one that chased.

 

Now the question in my mind that really just blows it, is, unlike some of the sex scenarios that some of you have had (disappointing) our sex was off the charts.....I would always, and I mean always have her cum twice minimum before I would.....sometimes in an hour (all the time we would have together) she would cum 5 times......it was an on going joke/expectation between us that it was normal ( which in fact she said has never happened before me)......I used to tell her the ratio was 3-4/1!......and that was the full menu, nothing let off and she would arrive with everything.....

 

Now how do you go from 6 years of almost constant engagement like that, and then just shut it off and pretend like it never happened??.....I have not a clue....

[Poppy47]

I have to say, I liked the quote of "being out of their league", one of my friends said that to me that knows the details of my A and X (we all worked together).....he said, "not to be rude, but (X) isn't all of that"....that said, like all of you, there was more to it than just looks....and I too am attractive, and she was the one that chased.

 

Now the question in my mind that really just blows it, is, unlike some of the sex scenarios that some of you have had (disappointing) our sex was off the charts.....I would always, and I mean always have her cum twice minimum before I would.....sometimes in an hour (all the time we would have together) she would cum 5 times......it was an on going joke/expectation between us that it was normal ( which in fact she said has never happened before me)......I used to tell her the ratio was 3-4/1!......and that was the full menu, nothing let off and she would arrive with everything.....

 

Now how do you go from 6 years of almost constant engagement like that, and then just shut it off and pretend like it never happened??.....I have not a clue....

 

Neither do I and I miss that part of the A badly. It pains me to remember it because I would like it back. However, the other bits..... waiting, uncertainty, knowing he was going home to her... NO. I don't want that back,

 

Poppy.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I have to say, I liked the quote of "being out of their league", one of my friends said that to me that knows the details of my A and X (we all worked together).....he said, "not to be rude, but (X) isn't all of that"....that said, like all of you, there was more to it than just looks....and I too am attractive, and she was the one that chased.

 

Now the question in my mind that really just blows it, is, unlike some of the sex scenarios that some of you have had (disappointing) our sex was off the charts.....I would always, and I mean always have her cum twice minimum before I would.....sometimes in an hour (all the time we would have together) she would cum 5 times......it was an on going joke/expectation between us that it was normal ( which in fact she said has never happened before me)......I used to tell her the ratio was 3-4/1!......and that was the full menu, nothing let off and she would arrive with everything.....

 

Now how do you go from 6 years of almost constant engagement like that, and then just shut it off and pretend like it never happened??.....I have not a clue....

 

Do you miss her Out? Do you want to be with her?

 

I ask only out of female curiosity. I did not even have all that great sex, as you have read, and it hurts to be discarded as if it was nothing, as if I were nothing. It hurts a great deal.

[Adoraxx]

The sex with my xMM was.... well, it was just sex. I wanted to make love to him always, but with him it was always like I was just some object. He was always in a rush and he always thought he gave me multiple orgasms but he never gave me one to be honest because he was always rushing and apparently wanting to get home asap. He had all the skills though! (not surprised about that) It was just the rushing and the feeling that I was an object to him. No, I shouldn't have faked it but I didn't want to hurt poor xMM's feelings back then so then I just pretended. Def. too much pleasing on my part....

 

I already knew pretty quickly that I couldn't deal with 'just sex' and even though he threw in some "I love you's" for good measure, I knew it couldn't possibly be true because he always ignored me after sex or came up with the good old excuse 'ohh I feel so guilty' just so he could get rid of me again until he was in the mood again! He totally reminds me of Savannah's MM... The difference is that I started to say 'no, I can't do it anymore' quite soon, yet he still tried to get it from me for years...

 

Is he attractive? No, I don't think other women will think so......... I always admired his muscles but he truly doesn't look all that fabulous. He looks mean and old!

 

Btw, he never said anything bad about W and I was not allowed to mention her. I think his situation with W is like angel's MM with W because at home she seems to be the controlling one (I know her well ) , and with me he always wanted control.

[imperfectangel]

I probably sound naive but the only time I felt it was "just sex" was probably the first time but I think it was more because I was like omg I'm having sex with a mm wtf am I doing and he told me after he was thinking I'm a mm wtf am I doing. That made me lol. Tbh my mm is a nice man. I do think he genuinely feels guilt. I can't be mad at him for that

 

It does make me mad though that whenever I try to end it he won't let me yet hell then randomly disappear on me even though nothing has happened to bring it on (between us anyway maybe something when on at home)

 

I don't like to ask or talk about his family. It's weird. If he volunteers information that's up to him but I still don't wanna hear it tbh. Maybe it's because I want him to be with me I'm not sure but I just don't want to hear about her it was bad enough when I found her fb page ugh

[Adoraxx]

no, honestly I don't want to hear about his family life either. He was always going on and on about upcoming vacations and this and that, and I just didn't even want to hear him mention her name to me. I just mentioned her name maybe once or twice , but he always got mad yet he was totally fine with mentioning her to me himself but ONLY when HE wanted to