"Destabilization Phase" and your thoughts and experience

[Lobe]

I call BS on that. I think if he really didn't like it he wouldn't have done it. I think it's convenient for him to say, "AP liked it. I just went along with it." So you didn't think less of him.

 

LOL I totally called BS on him, too... I pushed for a lot of information that he was genuinely uncomfortable giving me but I wanted/needed to understand.

 

Before saying anything else, I want to clarify the term "degrading" as I realize "degrading" is open to interpretation based on personal tastes - I have a friend who thinks doggy style and giving blow jobs is "degrading." So, in the context of my history, I am referring to the face slapping, facials, gagging, hair pulling... which I think fall in a slightly different category than fisting, anal, rough sex, etc.

 

I think lots of men have fantasies about treating a woman like a "porn" partner. WH was quite specific about what he did and did not enjoy (the specific acts) and so I don't know if it was because he wanted to protect the way I saw HIM so much as he didn't want to think of ME in the way he saw the xOW. I've read quite a few MM say they felt like they could sexually "degrade" their AP in a way they couldn't their wife. I think the term is the "Madonna-Whore complex" in which case it's not about him not wanting to be seen as sexually deviant by me so much as he can't wrap his head around seeing me that way.

 

Looking back to when we first became sex partners, I had a hard time convincing him I was OK with certain other sex acts so it makes sense I guess. After all is said and done, with her he was clearly the "dominant" partner (who perhaps ironically still calls the shots) but with me he always has been and always wants me to "lead." The bottom line he says is that he wants to feel "desired" so I guess either approach works lol

 

Edited to add: I do some things with my husband that are not my favourite (there's one position he loves that does NOTHING for me, for example) because I know he likes it, so in some cases yes, I do think that we make small sacrifices, as long as it's a tit for tat.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Lobe

[MidnightBlue1980]

This issue is all still up for debate lol. According to him, he liked some of it, some of it not so much - but he says he mostly liked the way she made him feel - wanted, admired, interesting, and sexually desirable. It's funny - in reading his xOW's blog, it sounds almost like she sculpted herself (love bombed him) to be everything I was not (according to my WH's skewed description of us to garner her sympathy) and was mad it still wasn't "enough" to "win" him.

 

I can't believe you read her blog about him. That is bizarre. Plus - what does she talk about? I feel like your H's A was a while ago, no? I find myself running out of stuff to say, I am bored a bit with rehashing the same old, same old. It's been 8 months now that it is over. Sad on my part. 8 months I will never get back.

 

I agree with rainbows, they are in this stuff for the sex. In my situation, he was very inexperienced in even basic stuff, so the things he wanted were not really out there, but it was stuff he was curious about and his W was not interested in. I did give him a bj but that's it. He asked me to pee on him (haha) which I did not do - I actually did it once but it as a joke and with my H, long ago. I did pee in front of xMM, to give him something - sooooo bizarre.

 

He also was really curious about anal, again, I've done it but as they said on Sex and the City - 'not without a wedding ring!'. haha. So I guess he can ask wifey to stick it up her butt. my butt was off limits.

 

These guys,,,,they just want to get their freak on. That's all. Sad it took me so long to realize it was not about love at all.

[MidnightBlue1980]

LOL I totally called BS on him, too... I pushed for a lot of information that he was genuinely uncomfortable giving me but I wanted/needed to understand.

 

Before saying anything else, I want to clarify the term "degrading" as I realize "degrading" is open to interpretation based on personal tastes - I have a friend who thinks doggy style and giving blow jobs is "degrading." So, in the context of my history, I am referring to the face slapping, facials, gagging, hair pulling... which I think fall in a slightly different category than fisting, anal, rough sex, etc.

 

I think lots of men have fantasies about treating a woman like a "porn" partner. WH was quite specific about what he did and did not enjoy (the specific acts) and so I don't know if it was because he wanted to protect the way I saw HIM so much as he didn't want to think of ME in the way he saw the xOW. I've read quite a few MM say they felt like they could sexually "degrade" their AP in a way they couldn't their wife. I think the term is the "Madonna-Whore complex" in which case it's not about him not wanting to be seen as sexually deviant by me so much as he can't wrap his head around seeing me that way.

 

Looking back to when we first became sex partners, I had a hard time convincing him I was OK with certain other sex acts so it makes sense I guess. After all is said and done, with her he was clearly the "dominant" partner (who perhaps ironically still calls the shots) but with me he always has been and always wants me to "lead." The bottom line he says is that he wants to feel "desired" so I guess either approach works lol

 

Edited to add: I do some things with my husband that are not my favourite (there's one position he loves that does NOTHING for me, for example) because I know he likes it, so in some cases yes, I do think that we make small sacrifices, as long as it's a tit for tat.

 

Madonna Whore complex for sure.

 

I've had experiences with guys where they did not me to even be on top as they felt it emasculated them. Could you imagine? I am sure a lot of women and men feel as your friend does about bjs - not appropriate with a spouse.

 

I do agree about the fisting, slapping, gagging and stuff like that. I don't like to be hurt and I could not imagine a fist up there. We all have our things I guess. I will say I have never asked my husband if he wanted that. He is into things but has said that he never wants me to feel degraded.

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

I would like the anger to come.

 

Oh, it will come. I had it a lot. I could have killed him. Like orange suit, jailtime, kill him.

 

I will say - I think I am past that. Ignoring him helps. I will see him tomorrow and let you all know. He does push my buttons, that is the thing. I never know what he is going to say to make me so mad. But I will try.

[Lobe]

I can't believe you read her blog about him. That is bizarre. Plus - what does she talk about? I feel like your H's A was a while ago, no? I find myself running out of stuff to say, I am bored a bit with rehashing the same old, same old. It's been 8 months now that it is over. Sad on my part. 8 months I will never get back.

 

It was bizarre. Shortly after she sent me one of her countless notes I suggested (not in a bitchy way even) that I felt like maybe the blog was something that would make it harder for her to find closure and that part of moving on might be taking it down. In the early part, it's kind of like looking at a modern-day version of a 12-year old writing Mrs. Crush's Name all over her binder. In the middle of it it was mostly stuff like I don't want to be a back up plan or second choice, and after d-day, stuff about loneliness, depression, quotes about suicide, "inside" jokes (smoke signals) that I knew about because WH told me... or in some cases failed to successfully lie about lol

 

I don't go to her blog much anymore - it's painful to read - but it's been 20 months since d-day and I know she still pines for him. Not that I'm not getting "antiversary" notes from her informing me of the first time they kissed or made out, I am not hyper vigilant about her emotional state and trying to brace myself for yet another email from some random address like "iletyourhusbandfistme@gmail" lol. Last I looked (this afternoon since we were talking about it here) it's still stuff still like I wonder how two people can be from being perfect lovers to perfect strangers. For a woman who is in the same age bracket as me, it seems very juvenile. I kind of feel like she maybe needs some professional help but it's not like I can just drop her a line and be like, "Lady, please - it's time to move on, here's my IC's name..."

 

I am with you on not rehashing/ripping off the scab... I don't rehash the A with WH these days, but I do have trigger moments. Like watching TV shows or movies with affairs in them - that hasn't gotten any easier. I just feel so awkward lol. Do you guys ("OW" collectively) have triggers, too?

 

I agree with rainbows, they are in this stuff for the sex.

 

I don't know - I think the sex itself and the way it makes us feel are very closely tied to one another and are essentially the same. Women may generally want to feel loved and cared for, men may generally want to feel like studs, and sex can fulfill both of those needs if both parties are willing and in the same headspace. Sex is the trigger for whatever emotion the man or woman feels is missing - variety, intimacy, danger, excitement, curiosity, lust, love... Sex doesn't mean just sex, you know what I mean? I dunno - just my take on it.

 

I did pee in front of xMM, to give him something - sooooo bizarre.

 

I have pee fright and CPABHS (can't poop anywhere but home syndrome) so all forms of weird pee and poo play are OFF the roster for this hen lol

 

He also was really curious about anal, again, I've done it but as they said on Sex and the City - 'not without a wedding ring!'. haha. So I guess he can ask wifey to stick it up her butt. my butt was off limits.

 

Curious? Never got his brown belt? Awwwww... poor nugget.

 

These guys,,,,they just want to get their freak on. That's all. Sad it took me so long to realize it was not about love at all.

 

midnightblue, I had a friend who got divorced last year whose mantra after discovering she could finish herself off with a more satisfying orgasm than her husband had during their entire marriage was, "nobody can make love to me like I can make love to me..." lol

[Chica80]

Originally Posted by MidnightBlue1980 View Post

I agree with rainbows, they are in this stuff for the sex.

I don't know - I think the sex itself and the way it makes us feel are very closely tied to one another and are essentially the same. Women may generally want to feel loved and cared for, men may generally want to feel like studs, and sex can fulfill both of those needs if both parties are willing and in the same headspace. Sex is the trigger for whatever emotion the man or woman feels is missing - variety, intimacy, danger, excitement, curiosity, lust, love... Sex doesn't mean just sex

 

Interesting observation.....

[Ronnie33]

I am with you on not rehashing/ripping off the scab... I don't rehash the A with WH these days, but I do have trigger moments. Like watching TV shows or movies with affairs in them - that hasn't gotten any easier. I just feel so awkward lol. Do you guys ("OW" collectively) have triggers, too?

 

Yes, I have triggers all the time. Music and TV are huge triggers for me. Example is yesterday I was watching a show and a song came on that made me think of him. The whole scene actually made me think of him and I instantly got sad and almost had to change it.

 

I'm also watching another show and two of the main characters are having an affair. It triggers me so bad but in the way it makes me mad. I want to yell at the TV and smack them both. I guess this would be the anger phase.

[Chica80]

On my cell phone not so easy to type....we talked last week. Nothing different or changed though.

 

I guess the hardest part for me in all of this has been the why? If sex is the answer. Why why why? We hardly had sex. Less than a handful of times. In a year and a half. Oral yes. But that's alot of work just to get a BJ. And most of the time he only wanted to take care of me. Not me him.

 

He can't say oh my wife no sex etc. They were engaged no kids and things were just starting out.

 

No future faking. I could see maybe the first time we kissed messed around but to continue?

 

In the big picture of things and the final results don't matter I know it doesn't change the outcome or finale but I just want to know why. To say it was just sex then it would be about sex and none of the other things that went on.

[Ronnie33]

On the whole sex topic. I love kinky sex, I always have. My husband had no problem doing whatever I wanted. I like being the whore in the bedroom lol, my AP is also into very kinky sex but his fiancé was into it also. Remember we were friends first so I know about their sex life and he knows about mine.

 

Now as kinky as we both are regulary, there are still things that we would together that we would never do with our partners. We discussed why that is and its because there was never any judgement between us. We were totally honest with eachother about all our fantasies. We were very sexually compatible.

[MidnightBlue1980]

On the whole sex topic. I love kinky sex, I always have. My husband had no problem doing whatever I wanted. I like being the whore in the bedroom lol, my AP is also into very kinky sex but his fiancé was into it also. Remember we were friends first so I know about their sex life and he knows about mine.

 

Now as kinky as we both are regulary, there are still things that we would together that we would never do with our partners. We discussed why that is and its because there was never any judgement between us. We were totally honest with eachother about all our fantasies. We were very sexually compatible.

 

I think I forgot you were married Ronnie. I know your AP is getting married. For some reason I thought you were getting divorced, that you were available.

 

Since we are on the topic, it was 5 months with xMM and I got nothing out of it. I would say he was a pretty selfish lover. There were a couple of bjs for him and twice we had sex, a lot of kissing and fooling around but he was like a 15 year old. He was really rough with his hands and he had no idea what he was doing. The actual sex was over within seconds as he has a problem and he just left me in a quite a state, let me tell you. He seemed oblivious to my "discomfort".

 

I had to teach him how to kiss, he had no idea how to use his tongue. He actually didn't use it at all in the beginning. It was all...very odd.

 

So why did I crave him so much? I don't know. Why does the earth rotate the sun? Who knows. It just does. But I can say that H is the better choice sexually, handsdown. He knows what he is doing. So at least that makes it better. I do feel for the women when I read these posts that xMM was the best they had, better than their husbands. That must be difficult.

[MidnightBlue1980]

It was bizarre. Shortly after she sent me one of her countless notes I suggested (not in a bitchy way even) that I felt like maybe the blog was something that would make it harder for her to find closure and that part of moving on might be taking it down. In the early part, it's kind of like looking at a modern-day version of a 12-year old writing Mrs. Crush's Name all over her binder. In the middle of it it was mostly stuff like I don't want to be a back up plan or second choice, and after d-day, stuff about loneliness, depression, quotes about suicide, "inside" jokes (smoke signals) that I knew about because WH told me... or in some cases failed to successfully lie about lol

 

I don't go to her blog much anymore - it's painful to read - but it's been 20 months since d-day and I know she still pines for him. Not that I'm not getting "antiversary" notes from her informing me of the first time they kissed or made out, I am not hyper vigilant about her emotional state and trying to brace myself for yet another email from some random address like "iletyourhusbandfistme@gmail" lol. Last I looked (this afternoon since we were talking about it here) it's still stuff still like I wonder how two people can be from being perfect lovers to perfect strangers. For a woman who is in the same age bracket as me, it seems very juvenile. I kind of feel like she maybe needs some professional help but it's not like I can just drop her a line and be like, "Lady, please - it's time to move on, here's my IC's name..."

 

I am with you on not rehashing/ripping off the scab... I don't rehash the A with WH these days, but I do have trigger moments. Like watching TV shows or movies with affairs in them - that hasn't gotten any easier. I just feel so awkward lol. Do you guys ("OW" collectively) have triggers, too?

 

Curious? Never got his brown belt? Awwwww... poor nugget.

l

 

I think xMM thought I was this big whore because I had done the butt thing with my H. I only did it for H, plus to be honest, I have a friend who was all drunk and when I said I hated it, she told me what I was doing wrong, and how to do it so it didn't hurt. I told H and my friend was right. I still don't like it but it does not hurt.

 

Any guys reading this are now going nuts. What does she mean?? PM me ladies if you want to know.

 

Triggers - well I see the loser. His mug is a trigger.

[NewLeaf512]

It was bizarre. Shortly after she sent me one of her countless notes I suggested (not in a bitchy way even) that I felt like maybe the blog was something that would make it harder for her to find closure and that part of moving on might be taking it down. In the early part, it's kind of like looking at a modern-day version of a 12-year old writing Mrs. Crush's Name all over her binder. In the middle of it it was mostly stuff like I don't want to be a back up plan or second choice, and after d-day, stuff about loneliness, depression, quotes about suicide, "inside" jokes (smoke signals) that I knew about because WH told me... or in some cases failed to successfully lie about lol

 

I don't go to her blog much anymore - it's painful to read - but it's been 20 months since d-day and I know she still pines for him. Not that I'm not getting "antiversary" notes from her informing me of the first time they kissed or made out, I am not hyper vigilant about her emotional state and trying to brace myself for yet another email from some random address like "iletyourhusbandfistme@gmail" lol. Last I looked (this afternoon since we were talking about it here) it's still stuff still like I wonder how two people can be from being perfect lovers to perfect strangers. For a woman who is in the same age bracket as me, it seems very juvenile. I kind of feel like she maybe needs some professional help but it's not like I can just drop her a line and be like, "Lady, please - it's time to move on, here's my IC's name..."

 

I am with you on not rehashing/ripping off the scab... I don't rehash the A with WH these days, but I do have trigger moments. Like watching TV shows or movies with affairs in them - that hasn't gotten any easier. I just feel so awkward lol. Do you guys ("OW" collectively) have triggers, too?

 

 

 

I don't know - I think the sex itself and the way it makes us feel are very closely tied to one another and are essentially the same. Women may generally want to feel loved and cared for, men may generally want to feel like studs, and sex can fulfill both of those needs if both parties are willing and in the same headspace. Sex is the trigger for whatever emotion the man or woman feels is missing - variety, intimacy, danger, excitement, curiosity, lust, love... Sex doesn't mean just sex, you know what I mean? I dunno - just my take on it.

 

 

 

I have pee fright and CPABHS (can't poop anywhere but home syndrome) so all forms of weird pee and poo play are OFF the roster for this hen lol

 

 

 

Curious? Never got his brown belt? Awwwww... poor nugget.

 

 

 

midnightblue, I had a friend who got divorced last year whose mantra after discovering she could finish herself off with a more satisfying orgasm than her husband had during their entire marriage was, "nobody can make love to me like I can make love to me..." lol

 

I don't know if I ever cross BW mind.

 

I'm 14 months on myself, and this post reminds me of how destructive A are. It shows to me because I'm still here, waffling on and rehashing, analysing and dissecting it all with you here over a year later. Maybe what we are doing here and what the OW is doing with her blog aren't worlds apart. I guess we are luckier because we have each other to talk to about it all.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Lobe,

 

I do think it's odd she emails you. It's highly disrespectful, I don't care how in love she is with your H. Even in my lowest days I would never have contacted her, not in a million years. Your husband chose you, as my x chose her. That is all she sang.

 

And I was in love, I mean - I wanted to kill myself over this idiot. I told him that too, and he didn't care. I am sure glad I didn't. What a waste that would have been.

 

What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger.

 

20 months out.....I see it here on this website. I can tell you I do not pine for him. I'm not sure what I feel. I'm moving towards nothing. The man I love? my husband.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I don't know if I ever cross BW mind.

 

I'm 14 months on myself, and this post reminds me of how destructive A are. It shows to me because I'm still here, waffling on and rehashing, analysing and dissecting it all with you here over a year later. Maybe what we are doing here and what the OW is doing with her blog aren't worlds apart. I guess we are luckier because we have each other to talk to about it all.

 

New Leaf, I had to look you up to refresh myself. You are one year two months NC. How long since you left your job and had true NC? I think after a certain point, being here on LS is not healthy. Are you single or married?

[ladydesigner]

On my cell phone not so easy to type....we talked last week. Nothing different or changed though.

 

I guess the hardest part for me in all of this has been the why? If sex is the answer. Why why why? We hardly had sex. Less than a handful of times. In a year and a half. Oral yes. But that's alot of work just to get a BJ. And most of the time he only wanted to take care of me. Not me him.

 

He can't say oh my wife no sex etc. They were engaged no kids and things were just starting out.

 

No future faking. I could see maybe the first time we kissed messed around but to continue?

 

In the big picture of things and the final results don't matter I know it doesn't change the outcome or finale but I just want to know why. To say it was just sex then it would be about sex and none of the other things that went on.

 

I don't think it is just for sex, that is just part of it. A lot of it is 'how it makes you feel.' I think they are in it for the ego strokes (both AP and WS stroke each other's egos), to feel desirable again, a connection, love, and sex. It doesn't make A's easier or right I just think it is what it is. If we allowed ourselves to connect with everyone we had a connection with we would all be having an affairs. I believe we can fall in love with many people. It is too hard and too painful to love more than one ( I think MidnightBlue said something similar to this).

 

An A is based on a series of decisions and choices and over time and the longer it goes on the more attached the people in the A get. When sh*t hits the fan or gets close to it people either leave, stay, or continue the same madness again and again.

[Ronnie33]

I am getting a divorce, but sex was never a problem with my husband. He was a great lover, in fact that's what hooked me early on. AP was also a great lover but in the beginning, he would cum so fast. He said it was all the anticipation and being with me he couldn't control it.

 

No matter how good the sex, he still didn't leave so it doesn't matter.

[Chica80]

Triggers....yes lots of triggers. I still have to see him for one. That's hard. Certain songs, or anniversary of things.

 

When we are in a social setting his wife smiles at me gives me a hug. Or clings on to him for dear life. And I see him trying not to do things "to hurt me" ya big triggers!!!

[MidnightBlue1980]

I am getting a divorce, but sex was never a problem with my husband. He was a great lover, in fact that's what hooked me early on. AP was also a great lover but in the beginning, he would cum so fast. He said it was all the anticipation and being with me he couldn't control it.

 

No matter how good the sex, he still didn't leave so it doesn't matter.

 

xMM said the same thing. He blames everyone and everything for his troubles getting an erection and his premature ej. It was the reason his wife stopped having sex with him. He originally blamed her to me, but it happened with me too.

 

You have to wonder about sexual dysfunction and cheating. Hmmm.

[NewLeaf512]

New Leaf, I had to look you up to refresh myself. You are one year two months NC. How long since you left your job and had true NC? I think after a certain point, being here on LS is not healthy. Are you single or married?

 

I'm confused by the question. I'm NC since 4 July 2015. Why is that not true no contact?

[MidnightBlue1980]

I am getting a divorce, but sex was never a problem with my husband. He was a great lover, in fact that's what hooked me early on. AP was also a great lover but in the beginning, he would cum so fast. He said it was all the anticipation and being with me he couldn't control it.

 

No matter how good the sex, he still didn't leave so it doesn't matter.

 

Sex is some dangerous stuff. I am telling you xMM went from a guy I did not have feelings for to a guy I could not live without in 10 seconds, all from some lousy sex. If there was a pill to undo that, I'd pay a million dollars for it.

 

I had no idea how hooked I'd get emotionally, chemically and physically. I just didn't know.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I'm confused by the question. I'm NC since 4 July 2015. Why is that not true no contact?

 

No it is. I don't know your story. Many of us say NC but it's really not. We have to see them and ignore them, stuff like that.

[Ronnie33]

xMM said the same thing. He blames everyone and everything for his troubles getting an erection and his premature ej. It was the reason his wife stopped having sex with him. He originally blamed her to me, but it happened with me too.

 

You have to wonder about sexual dysfunction and cheating. Hmmm.

 

Lmao @premature ejaculation. You should leave him a bottle of viagra on his desk with an anonymous note that says "heard you might need this"

 

My AP didn't have premature ejaculation but less then 5 minutes might as well be to me lol.

[Chica80]

I don't think it is just for sex, that is just part of it. A lot of it is 'how it makes you feel.' I think they are in it for the ego strokes (both AP and WS stroke each other's egos), to feel desirable again, a connection, love, and sex. It doesn't make A's easier or right I just think it is what it is. If we allowed ourselves to connect with everyone we had a connection with we would all be having an affairs. I believe we can fall in love with many people. It is too hard and too painful to love more than one ( I think MidnightBlue said something similar to this).

 

An A is based on a series of decisions and choices and over time and the longer it goes on the more attached the people in the A get. When sh*t hits the fan or gets close to it people either leave, stay, or continue the same madness again and again.

 

Yes for me it definitely was love affection, but mostly acceptance.

 

I so agree about the choices. You didn't just end up here along the way trapped. He chose to engage as did I. I choose to keep getting hurt over and over. Knowing the outcome won't be different but hoping it will.....

[NewLeaf512]

No it is. I don't know your story. Many of us say NC but it's really not. We have to see them and ignore them, stuff like that.

 

Well I say no contact to me no: calls, text, email, seeing each other, smoke signals or any other kind of contact. NC is NC. Anything else is contact or low contact.

 

There are people on this thread almost 2 years past DDAY. On infidelity 25 years past. Why do you suggest I shouldn't come here anymore? What makes me different?

[Ronnie33]

Sex is some dangerous stuff. I am telling you xMM went from a guy I did not have feelings for to a guy I could not live without in 10 seconds, all from some lousy sex. If there was a pill to undo that, I'd pay a million dollars for it.

 

I had no idea how hooked I'd get emotionally, chemically and physically. I just didn't know.

 

I think one of the reasons we get so hooked, is because in our minds we wouldn't be doing all these immoral things, if it wasn't real love.