Is it really healthy to know everything about the A if reconciling?

[Mrs. John Adams]

Thank you for the clarification, Mrs JA, English isn't my native language, and what I'm trying to say doesn't always come across as intended. Sorry.

 

No, I don't agree with Liam on these matters.

 

I knew that ZENstudent....and i feared it was misconstrued.....you fixed it my friend.

[understand50]

OK,

 

We are back to arguing about how much "good" comes from the "wonderful and loving act of infidelity"......

 

I think the consensus is that cheating because your spouse did not give you all you wanted, is a cop out and is no excuse for cheating. Let's not be drawn in next time when the discussion get high jacked.

 

To the original question: "Is it really healthy to know everything about the A if reconciling?" Properly not, but the Betrayed spouse has every right to find out as much as they decide they need to know. If, reconciliation is ongoing and being honestly tried by both, the WS should answer any and all questions put to them.

 

For myself, I would want to know all, but more along the lines of:

 

"How did you meet, and how did this lead to Sex?"

 

"When did you wright off our relationship?"

 

I would also be very interested in the depth and breath of the relationship. Did she love him? Was it just lust? Boredom? Were you seduced, or did the seducing? When did this happen? With all or some of these questions, I could decide if a 2nd chance should be given or should I file. Also, if this is a past affair, can the WS point to years of faithfulness to help set aside their past mistakes.

 

We have stories from both sides on this question, and one should take what they can from the discussion. My thought is that this is all in hind sight, and in the heat of action, things will go different. For those that have gone threw this hell of infidelity, ether as a WS, BS or both, with a good solid reconciliation, your chance to put in to practice, what was discussed here, hopefully will never happen.

 

One should be prepared for more information on a affair that has been forgiven. What if it was not a one time thing? What if you find plans were made to leave the marriage? At this point, you can be more open eye and calm when asking for details. This can happen several ways, and one should be open to new information. After all, you should know what you forgave and are forgiving in full. At this point, you need to decide if you got enough information in the beginning that you decision you made was informed. You also need to Weigh how the WS has lived during the time you did not have all the information. For a WS to point to years of faithfulness is a huge, positive, argument for keeping the marriage and reconciliation.

 

Point is, affairs leave a life time of "fun" and "games" (Hurt and pain) When you reconcile, even if it goes well as possible, hurt and pain will linger. Does not mean that reconciliation, or a life time of love and good times are not possible, but it does mean that you make thing harder. A good loving marriage is harder to achieve, after infidelity, but not impossible. Having all the details, and knowing all that you need to know, helps even the odds, gives you the "informed" chose.

 

My two cents..........

[JohnAdams]

OK,

I would also be very interested in the depth and breath of the relationship. Did she love him? Was it just lust? Boredom? Were you seduced, or did the seducing? When did this happen? With all or some of these questions, I could decide if a 2nd chance should be given or should I file. Also, if this is a past affair, can the WS point to years of faithfulness to help set aside their past mistakes.

 

We have stories from both sides on this question, and one should take what they can from the discussion. My thought is that this is all in hind sight, and in the heat of action, things will go different. For those that have gone threw this hell of infidelity, ether as a WS, BS or both, with a good solid reconciliation, your chance to put in to practice, what was discussed here, hopefully will never happen.

 

One should be prepared for more information on a affair that has been forgiven. What if it was not a one time thing? What if you find plans were made to leave the marriage? At this point, you can be more open eye and calm when asking for details. This can happen several ways, and one should be open to new information. After all, you should know what you forgave and are forgiving in full. At this point, you need to decide if you got enough information in the beginning that you decision you made was informed. You also need to Weigh how the WS has lived during the time you did not have all the information. For a WS to point to years of faithfulness is a huge, positive, argument for keeping the marriage and reconciliation.

 

..........

 

 

I agree these are critical details. As I stated before it is not just the sex details, but about the relationship. When my wife told me about her affair, I think she assumed I would ask certain questions which I would not have. Out of no where, she said, yes, he is better looking than you. A question I would have never asked. So, it was disheartening to hear she put such importance on shallow things. Details can help you heal or can sting forever. I had a tendency to tie the details into as logical story as I could, I know a few years ago in our discussions, I learned I had made some inaccurate assumptions to the story. I learned a few new details that really did not matter, it just clarified the story for me.

 

 

The details can cause permanent trauma. It is a fine line between what is enough and what is too much.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I agree these are critical details. As I stated before it is not just the sex details, but about the relationship. When my wife told me about her affair, I think she assumed I would ask certain questions which I would not have. Out of no where, she said, yes, he is better looking than you. A question I would have never asked. So, it was disheartening to hear she put such importance on shallow things. Details can help you heal or can sting forever. I had a tendency to tie the details into as logical story as I could, I know a few years ago in our discussions, I learned I had made some inaccurate assumptions to the story. I learned a few new details that really did not matter, it just clarified the story for me.

 

 

The details can cause permanent trauma. It is a fine line between what is enough and what is too much.

 

Which is exactly why I say I told too much... A few pages back road hit the nail on the head... I told too much too fast.

 

I should have let you lead the conversation... But I approached my confession head on and bared my soul. I know those details still sting to this day...

 

 

I will also say this.. I have found that sometimes my beloved has filled in his own blanks.... What I mean by that is... Yes I said the om was better looking than John.. But John then twisted that into I think he is ugly...

 

I never ever said John was ugly...

 

So the other day he said he knows I think he is ugly...

 

This was what I said

 

Who do I think the most handsome man in the world is?

 

My son

 

 

And who does my son look exactly like?

 

You John

 

And who does my grandson look exactly like? His dad my son

 

I think you are so very handsome and I am so very sorry that you have lived these past 33 years thinking that I think you are ugly.

 

 

I share this with you because I want you all to see that we all interpret we all dissect we all assume things about each other that are not necessarily true.... It is our perception our own definition that we apply to someone else's words.

 

My husband is very handsome... I have always thought he is very handsome... And I should never have said the om was more handsome... That was a detail I should have never shared. But I never said you are ugly.

 

Should we tell all of the details? Only if they are asked for.

 

Unfortunately most of us here are past this step....

 

We have already made our mistakes ... And those this advice could help... Won't bother to read the advice before they commit adultery.

[merrmeade]

You two make me cry. (Not for sadness)

[NTV]

If a couple is really wanting to work out their marriage & get to the bottom of the A, do BS really think it's healthy to know every single detail, if A is truly over?

 

 

 

In my opinion, yes it is. I'll give three examples:

 

 

1) Imagine a WS only disclosed 3 of 4 affair partners, but the 4th is one that meets the BS later. Would you, if you were a BS, want to end up in a situation where you're smiling in the face of someone who has slept with your spouse and not know it? I know I wouldn't.

 

 

2) While knowing which sex acts occurred might make triggers, not knowing makes mind movies that are even worse. Because what isn't told is filled in---with extreme detail by ones own mind.

 

 

3) Because those details could be a deal-breaker. If a WS never did a specific thing for their BS that they did more than willingly for their AP, then that could be the straw that breaks the camels back.... or it could be a drop in the bucket and be meaningless.... but finding that information out later only makes it seem like the WS was lying (yes lies of omission are still lies) and that isn't the way to build trust.

 

 

4) Knowing details like 'what kind of vehicle AP drives' might not make sense when asked, but knowing could give the BS the knowledge to see that vehicle outside of a gas station and avoid going in and avoiding a confrontation. I.e. 'AP # 2 is in the grocery store, see there's the car, let's go to a different one.'

 

 

Really, I think it all boils down to if the WS wants to build trust or not. Withholding info does not build trust. At all. If a WS had no intention of building trust--well then no biggie. But if they want to repair the marriage.

Edited June 28, 2016 by NTV

[ladydesigner]

Where on earth did all this knowledge of what goes on in therapists' offices with BSs come from? I mean, pseudo facts pronounced in third person universals are great with an audience that shares your bias—for example, people who actually believe the news on a pseudo news network or the tirades of a pseudo presidential candidate. I don't think that - even if you HAD qualified your opinion with something like "from my experience" or "what I've observed in [give context or on LS]" - anyone would be persuaded by a WS pontificating on traits of a BS in therapy. I can only assume this was written for WHs of a similar mindset.

 

This is a veritable laundry list of BS behaviors substantiated only by your say-so:

• ... BSs fail to realize ... they BLAMESHIFT also
  
  -- Yet, they refuse to accept this.
  
  
  -- even get indignant or angry when the counselor informs them of this.

  
  

• ... have some other heavy duty problems ...
  
  --mental health issues
  
  
  --hypochondriacs that require constant attention and soothing.

  
  

• ... drive a spouse to seek outside interactions [that's the best one]
  
• ... refusing sex with the spouse
  
• ... start telling the therapist what a wonderful spouse they were or still are.

And since your wife wasn't anything like the BSs you described (mainly because she's beautiful, right? ), how did you learn so much about what a BS thinks and feels and says in a therapist's office? Or anywhere else for that matter?

 

But nevermind it works out because "any therapist worth his/her salt knows" [that this] is most likely the real problem in the marriage."

This is scary - blaming the victim.

 

Exactly it's BS (not Blind Spouse)

[NTV]

In my opinion, yes it is. I'll give three examples:

 

 

1) Imagine a WS only disclosed 3 of 4 affair partners, but the 4th is one that meets the BS later. Would you, if you were a BS, want to end up in a situation where you're smiling in the face of someone who has slept with your spouse and not know it? I know I wouldn't.

 

 

2) While knowing which sex acts occurred might make triggers, not knowing makes mind movies that are even worse. Because what isn't told is filled in---with extreme detail by ones own mind.

 

 

3) Because those details could be a deal-breaker. If a WS never did a specific thing for their BS that they did more than willingly for their AP, then that could be the straw that breaks the camels back.... or it could be a drop in the bucket and be meaningless.... but finding that information out later only makes it seem like the WS was lying (yes lies of omission are still lies) and that isn't the way to build trust.

 

 

4) Knowing details like 'what kind of vehicle AP drives' might not make sense when asked, but knowing could give the BS the knowledge to see that vehicle outside of a gas station and avoid going in and avoiding a confrontation. I.e. 'AP # 2 is in the grocery store, see there's the car, let's go to a different one.'

 

 

Really, I think it all boils down to if the WS wants to build trust or not. Withholding info does not build trust. At all. If a WS had no intention of building trust--well then no biggie. But if they want to repair the marriage.

 

If my post were a math test, I think I just failed it.... lol.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Ntv....

 

One of the details that remains a huge trigger for both of us is the kind of car the ap drove.

 

And unfortunately my best friend bought one a few years ago. Thankfully we don't live near each other so we don't have to see it often.

[NTV]

Ntv....

 

One of the details that remains a huge trigger for both of us is the kind of car the ap drove.

QUOTE]

 

 

 

IDK, Nowadays... 2+ years later, I would rather trigger than wonder.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Understood.. And agreed

[understand50]

For those that reconcile, this is the bloody paradox. To know all and suffer from knowing, to not know and suffer from imagination, or suffer from something in between. What do you prefer?

 

Myself, I prefer knowing and suffering from that, then making it up. Others, and quit rightly, will disagree. In the end, it is always better if the infidelity had not happened in the first place, or when headed in to it, it was stopped. For the rest of my life I will know the woman I love, betrayed me, and for her, she will know she did betray me. What is left, is to cope with the aftermath, and build a life together.

[JohnAdams]

I agree, it is better to know than wonder and use your imagination. Having said that, I will say, pretty much every detail was worse than my imagination. That says a lot since overall I am a pretty pessimistic person who often imagines the worst.

[understand50]

John,

 

Each of us have a personal hell from infidelity, both BS and WS, does not mean we need to dwell there. I don't, and I am sure you and Abigail do not as well. It is just, sometimes, we find our self there. I know Abigail, works to pull you out, and I am sure, you pull her back when she slips in to her own hell.

 

Knowing or not knowing does not change what we go trough, but knowing someone is there and loves you can, for me, always pull me into the good part of life. Life just goes on, I choose to live as positively as I can and when in "Hell" move through it as fast as I can.

 

As always, I wish you and Abigail the best of luck........

[ladydesigner]

I agree, it is better to know than wonder and use your imagination. Having said that, I will say, pretty much every detail was worse than my imagination. That says a lot since overall I am a pretty pessimistic person who often imagines the worst.

 

Same my imagination is ususually worse but REAL details of my WH's A were waaaay worse than what I was being told by him or even imagining. When people say you have only discovered the tip of the iceberg, that was definitely the case for me. Having said that I would still rather know WHO my WH really is over not knowing. I won't be blinsided the next time.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Same my imagination is ususually worse but REAL details of my WH's A were waaaay worse than what I was being told by him or even imagining. When people say you have only discovered the tip of the iceberg, that was definitely the case for me. Having said that I would still rather know WHO my WH really is over not knowing. I won't be blinsided the next time.

 

John gave me the benefit of the doubt... He did not think I was capable of doing what I did. I am the one who disclosed the details... He did not find them out through other means... There were no other means. I did not lie to him or keep from him details or trickle truth him.

 

This is why I say I told too much

[Mr Blunt]

By NTV

Really, I think it all boils down to if the WS wants to build trust or not.

Withholding info does not build trust. At all.

If a WS had no intention of building trust--well then no biggie.

But if they want to repair the marriage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not withholding ESSENTIAL information gives the opportunity to build trust.

Giving non-essential information that hurts a life time is counterproductive IMO.

 

 

What builds trust for me is that the WS show with ACTIONS for years that the remorse and changes are real.

[NTV]

By NTV

Really, I think it all boils down to if the WS wants to build trust or not.

Withholding info does not build trust. At all.

If a WS had no intention of building trust--well then no biggie.

But if they want to repair the marriage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not withholding ESSENTIAL information gives the opportunity to build trust.

Giving non-essential information that hurts a life time is counterproductive IMO.

 

 

What builds trust for me is that the WS show with ACTIONS for years that the remorse and changes are real.

 

Sure, that makes sense but is usually after gathering info to decide if you want to wait around to see vws actions.

 

The truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That's the basis I used to determine if I was waiting around for ww to improve actions and thought processes. Without the honesty the actions can be deceiving. Without the actions the honesty is meaningless (to reconciliation).

 

They go hand in hand to achieve r. And to be fair a Ws can do those both and it could still be a dealbreaker. It's real hard to get past careless disregard for vows and family and trust and compassion. Real hard. Honesty and actions only increase probability of success not guarantee it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

John decided before he had all the information that we werestaying together...

[wmacbride]

I don't know about anyone else, but for me, I need knowledge because I can deal with what Iknow. What I don't know terrifies me.

 

This applied to my H's A as well. once I knew the details, I could begin to move forward. if I hadn't known them, I would have stagnated and been stuck in limbo.

 

I hate holding patterns when I'm flying, and I hate them even more in my emotional life.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I did not ask for a lot of details ... And John was much wiser than I was... He waited for questions.

 

A lot of this probably had to do with my mindset... And his as well. I felt I deserved it and so did he.

 

We both know better now... But at the time... It was where we were mentally.

[drifter777]

Each of us have a personal hell from infidelity, both BS and WS, does not mean we need to dwell there.

I don't buy this. I think most of the time that the WS is left with wonderful memories of the excitement, passion, and sex. They may regret that their BS found out but that's all. Then they do whatever dance they have to do in order to convince BS they are "remorseful" and "open and honest" and all the crap they think they need to do to get BS to just shut up about it already.

[wmacbride]

I don't buy this. I think most of the time that the WS is left with wonderful memories of the excitement, passion, and sex. They may regret that their BS found out but that's all. Then they do whatever dance they have to do in order to convince BS they are "remorseful" and "open and honest" and all the crap they think they need to do to get BS to just shut up about it already.

 

I'm not doubting that this happens, but I do think it depends very much on the individual.

 

From what I can tell, it very much depends on the individual involved. If someone is , for the most part, an honest person, I just can't see how they could ever feel good about cheating. If they have any sense of empathy, how can they feel good knowing they hurt someone they way they have hurt their bs?

 

I know in my husband's case, he was someone to whom honour means everything. He was completely broken at the time he was cheating, and the infidelity made it even worse. He became the very thing he had never wanted to be.