Is it really healthy to know everything about the A if reconciling?

[Whoknew30]

Depends on BS. I haven't never read about anyone who would stay no matter what. Most wanna know details to know if it went so far over the line that it's a certain dealbreaker: that's why I'd like to know.

 

She's willing to stay no matter what, even if it's for the wrong reasons. Honestly it's one of the saddest things I've seen. She's just so desperate to stay married, just to be married.

[Sub]

She's willing to stay no matter what, even if it's for the wrong reasons.

 

Unfortunately ( and sadly) true of too many BW and OW.

[Whoknew30]

Unfortunately ( and sadly) true of too many BW and OW.

 

That's why I asked this question bc i truly can't understand it. I wouldn't have stayed no matter what & no way I could allow what's happening in her life. He's never going to stop & she'll talk about all day but as soon as you say something she's defending him...she's starting to lose friends bc no one knows how to deal with her.

[DKT3]

I'm a little different in the sense that the details have never been an issue for me. I was told by a therapist it's because I'm arrogant which she deemed a good thing when dealing with infidelity.

 

She tried to share details I was never interested, once she started posting here she would give details then pull back saying "I have to be careful because these are things dkt3 doesn't know" so I've learned a few things that way. Still not an issue for me.

 

Ha-ha on the flipside she wants details of conversation events everything from my dating period after we divorced, I even started a thread about it some time back.

[Whoknew30]

I'm a little different in the sense that the details have never been an issue for me. I was told by a therapist it's because I'm arrogant which she deemed a good thing when dealing with infidelity.

 

She tried to share details I was never interested, once she started posting here she would give details then pull back saying "I have to be careful because these are things dkt3 doesn't know" so I've learned a few things that way. Still not an issue for me.

 

Ha-ha on the flipside she wants details of conversation events everything from my dating period after we divorced, I even started a thread about it some time back.

 

Is it arrogance or just being secure? I was the same way bc I'm just really secure but my H is not, he can be extremely insecure, which is why we handle things differently.

[Sub]

Is it arrogance or just being secure? I was the same way bc I'm just really secure but my H is not, he can be extremely insecure, which is why we handle things differently.

 

I would agree it's the security. I could think of a bunch of things they did that horrified me at first thought. But after calming down and thinking of the previous 17 years we shared in comparison to an 8-month long A they had....as my WW even said,"there was no comparison."

[AlwaysGrowing]

Is it arrogance or just being secure? I was the same way bc I'm just really secure but my H is not, he can be extremely insecure, which is why we handle things differently.

 

 

Be careful about assigning the need to know as an insecure person vs not asking questions as being a secure person.

 

Some folks need to know because they are secure in themselves and know that for them the unknown is what will keep them stuck.

 

Some folks don't ask questions because they are insecure and the truth will damage their view of "I am the best" self or they then feel forced to deal with the situation as it is, not what they have made it to be in their head.

 

As far as your friend goes, a polite, I am uncomfortable with the conversation, maybe a therapist can help you much better than I ever could. Then change the conversation to something else about them.

[Liam1]

If a couple is really wanting to work out their marriage & get to the bottom of the A, do BS really think it's healthy to know every single detail, if A is truly over?

 

 

IMO, no it is not healthy to want to or need to hear all the sexually explicit details.

 

Some information like: who, what, where, how long, how involved, were you in love.... These are a must, so that the BS can make an informed decision about reconciliation.

 

I do not think a BS would want to walk past the affair partner or talk to them at a function, without knowing who they are.

 

Still, most people do not ask about sexually explicit details of a person's former lovers, after marrying. So why would it be important to know sexually explicit details of an affair.

 

What is the point to knowing sexually explicit details?

 

It only creates mind movies for the BS and those are difficult to erase.

 

Once the details are told, they can not be untold.

[Lobe]

Still, most people do not ask about sexually explicit details of a person's former lovers, after marrying. So why would it be important to know sexually explicit details of an affair.

 

What is the point to knowing sexually explicit details?

 

It only creates mind movies for the BS and those are difficult to erase.

 

Once the details are told, they can not be untold.

 

The difference between knowing the details of those who came before or after the marriage is that they weren't during the marriage. As I said before, it's a very individual thing. I needed my WH, who spent weeks pining for his xOW and making me feel like sh*t, to stop making it sound romantic and innocent. I needed him to break the spell he had woven about how what had happened was a romantic tragedy, an unfortunate mishap in the space-time continuum.

 

For some, the mind-movies of sex are hard. For me, the sex part was a cakewalk - I shudder more imagining him holding her close and rocking her in his arms while whispering how desperately he loves her and will miss her while he's stuck at home with the old ball and chain. Barf.

 

Bottom line is, when it comes to disclosing the details, the BS has to be the one who leads that conversation. Always.

Edited June 17, 2016 by Lobe
typos

[Neil711]

Hell, I would have gotten over things a lot sooner had she just given me all of the details of her EA. I found poetry about a "secret" that "she would never tell". She was evasive when I asked about it. So, in my mind first, it must have been a physical affair, then I started thinking my child wasn't really mine, etc. That went on for 4 months. Pure hell to think that your child may not be yours after all.

 

As it turns out, the secret was that she thought she had married the wrong man, it was how she felt for about a month, and she didn't want to hurt my feelings by telling me. Pfft. Would have been a lot better to have known that.

 

I suppose it depends on the person and their personality. Me, I'm an ENTP. That means I have to understand things, I thirst for information and knowledge, and analyze everything. Just how I am. Of course we only make up 3% of the population, and I'm a little off the charts on the NT side, so maybe other personality types just aren't like this.

[ladydesigner]

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but my OCD mind most definitely needed all the details even if I didn't really want to know

[ladydesigner]

The difference between knowing the details of those who came before or after the marriage is that they weren't during the marriage. As I said before, it's a very individual thing. I needed my WH, who spent weeks pining for his xOW and making me feel like sh*t, to stop making it sound romantic and innocent. I needed him to break the spell he had woven about how what had happened was a romantic tragedy, an unfortunate mishap in the space-time continuum.

 

For some, the mind-movies of sex are hard. For me, the sex part was a cakewalk - I shudder more imagining him holding her close and rocking her in his arms while whispering how desperately he loves her and will miss her while he's stuck at home with the old ball and chain. Barf.

 

Bottom line is, when it comes to disclosing the details, the BS has to be the one who leads that conversation. Always.

 

Yep same here, it wasn't the act of sex that bothered me as much as he shared HIS life and OUR life with her. They had many I Love You's and spent 3 years together. My WH and MOW had a real relationship, that is what hurts me the most.

[Lobe]

My WH and MOW had a real relationship, that is what hurts me the most.

 

I don't know if "real" is a word I would use. In our case it was a relationship that only existed in a bubble. He says he felt "brainwashed" during the affair, not by the xOW but by the situation. Everything they had built up between them was built on a foundation of lies and deception and delusion and selfishness. Did it feel real? Probably. Was it based in reality? Nope. Maybe it's an argument in semantics, but it's an important differentiation for WH to make.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I don't know if "real" is a word I would use. In our case it was a relationship that only existed in a bubble. He says he felt "brainwashed" during the affair, not by the xOW but by the situation. Everything they had built up between them was built on a foundation of lies and deception and delusion and selfishness. Did it feel real? Probably. Was it based in reality? Nope. Maybe it's an argument in semantics, but it's an important differentiation for WH to make.

 

I cannot speak for your husband...I can only tell you about me.

 

I was not brainwashed. I made excuses to pursue a relationship that i clearly knew was wrong. I had an OM who stroked my ego and i thought I deserved the compliments. I began to look for reasons to validate my feelings of worthiness.

 

I am being totally honest...I do not for one second buy his "brainwashed" crap....he did exactly what he wanted to do.

 

Amazing what waywards say that betrayeds buy into isn't it? You want to believe so badly that he did not do exactly what he wanted to do and did not care one bit what the consequences would be...because he was caught up in the moment.

 

That's the ugly truth...and I was every bit as ugly as your husband

 

You see sweet girl....his affair had absolutely nothing to do with you...nor did mine. Oh yes...I loved my husband...always have...but the excitement...the electricity of the moment...became so much more important to me than the love I felt for him.

 

How do you say you "love" someone and yet do something to destroy them? You love yourself more. It is truly that simple. I loved me more....than I loved John.

 

It is painful for me to admit this to you...because I don't want to be the person I became.

 

My affair partner was a player....and i took the bait hook line and sinker....but all it would have taken was for me to say...nope not interested...and he would have moved on to the next woman. He is to blame because he offered...but oh my god....I am to blame because I clearly knew...that it was my choice....and i have no one to blame but me.

 

when we first began our reconciliation....I think John blamed the om more than he did me...and for that I am grateful...because it is probably why we are still together today. If he had placed the blame on me that I deserved...he would have divorced me.

 

It is so very hard to imagine that the person we love...the person we trust....the person we need...is capable of becoming this creature who is capable of becoming this infidelity animal.

 

I am an advocate of reconciliation...but I totally understand those who choose divorce.

 

There are those here who like to claim that they had a reason...an excuse...to choose to cheat. If I am nothing else...I am honest....to in any way blame my husband for my choice...to in anyway claim I was not conscience...of my decision... is a total and complete lie.

 

Brainwashing to cheat? I do not believe it.

[Lobe]

Brainwashing to cheat? I do not believe it.

 

Not by her. By the situation. Awash in the glow of the affair, he brainwashed himself.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Not by her. By the situation. Awash in the glow of the affair, he brainwashed himself.

 

Brainwashed is a nice way of making an excuse for not being honest and responsible......it is a way of whitewashing the ugly truth.

 

You believe whatever you want...it is not reality nor is it the truth.

 

He brainwashed himself in the glow of the affair......= he wanted to cheat and liked it so he did it.

 

This is not rocket science...and it is truly not complicated.

 

He wanted to cheat..so he did.

[Lobe]

This is not rocket science...and it is truly not complicated.

 

He wanted to cheat..so he did.

 

And he has said as much. He said he felt (past tense intentional) like he had (past tense still intentional) brainwashed (pt) himself. He realizes he rewrote our marriage and justified the affair using flawed logic. If he was telling me now that he was under her spell I'd punch him in the balls lol.

 

Call it "fog" or call it "delusion" or call it "the lies you tell yourself" or say "feeling brainwashed by your own justifications" - the end of the affair results in you (and my WH) not only acknowledging but accepting responsibility.

 

Bottom line: the WS needs to own the lies they told, to the BS, to the AP, and to themselves. So long as the end game (honesty, peaceful progression, accountability) is the same, I'm not really sure a rose by any other name and all that.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Lobe
Typos

[drifter777]

If a couple is really wanting to work out their marriage & get to the bottom of the A, do BS really think it's healthy to know every single detail, if A is truly over?

 

My H & I got into this discussion last night & he says he regrets asking me questions about the sex part of the A, that he was in shock & allowed his ego to ask questions that he never really wanted to hear the answers to. I never asked for details on anything bc I didn't care. Once I wanted to work on our marriage i didn't care about the details of the A, just that we decided to work on it.

 

Another couple we know is going through this & BW keeps asking for details, WH tells her, she flips out, yet says she'll stay with him no matter what & will never leave him. I think that's fine but I don't understand her wanting to go through all that when, she's going to stay no matter what. Boggles my mind to why someone would do that to themselves knowing the WS answers won't affect you staying or leaving. I understand if it's a matter of staying & leaving to want to hear the details...I'm only asking those that already knew they were going to stay. What's the point of hearing all of that?

 

Standard answer here is that everyone is different and some BS need to know more than others. The best advice I have read on this was in the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. She advises that the WS tell the BS everything they ask about. That the BS has the right to know as much truth as they think they need. But she admonishes that the WS should warn BS that they cannot un-hear anything they say so they need to be sure they still want to hear the truth. She also advises that the WS tell the truth, but also go softly on things that will obviously hurt BS. Like if BS asks "was the sex better with AP"? If the truth is that yes, it was, then the WS might want to answer this with "the whole situation of the sneaking around and sex with AP being forbidden made things seem better than they were". That kind of thing. But WS can only sugar-coat so much without lying.

 

For me the most important reason that I wanted every single detail was to test her for lies. She has always obviously held things back so I know she is still lying about a lot of things. If she was truly open and honest I would have more confidence in her when she says that she hasn't cheated more than I know about. It's the WS being remorseful enough to be completely honest and transparent about everything that can make it possible to begin to rebuild a modicum of trust.

[Jersey born raised]

Sorry for the the thread jack but you stated your friend husband would never stop cheating. Later you said he is a friend of your husbands.

 

Why does you husband allow this guy into his life? How many times do we see stories about guys who where friends with a player and where shocked, shocked when they played their wives? Stupid, just stupid.

 

Perhaps you know this guy will never get anywhere with you, but if your husband gets tempted again (and he has before) who will step up in his face and tell him to go home? This guy ?

[Moxie Lady]

Standard answer here is that everyone is different and some BS need to know more than others. The best advice I have read on this was in the book "After the Affair" by Janis Spring. She advises that the WS tell the BS everything they ask about. That the BS has the right to know as much truth as they think they need. But she admonishes that the WS should warn BS that they cannot un-hear anything they say so they need to be sure they still want to hear the truth. She also advises that the WS tell the truth, but also go softly on things that will obviously hurt BS. Like if BS asks "was the sex better with AP"? If the truth is that yes, it was, then the WS might want to answer this with "the whole situation of the sneaking around and sex with AP being forbidden made things seem better than they were". That kind of thing. But WS can only sugar-coat so much without lying.

 

For me the most important reason that I wanted every single detail was to test her for lies. She has always obviously held things back so I know she is still lying about a lot of things. If she was truly open and honest I would have more confidence in her when she says that she hasn't cheated more than I know about. It's the WS being remorseful enough to be completely honest and transparent about everything that can make it possible to begin to rebuild a modicum of trust.

 

The problem that I can see with your posts (and I have not been here very long) is that you reconciiled with your wife who you dont trust so there is no true reconciliation there. You also seem very angry (can understand that, but its been decades so ?). You just seem to have swept all of this under a rug for the sake of something (sorry I dont know your backstory) but there is nothing that can justify it. Thus why you are here

[Mr Blunt]

do BS really think it's healthy to know every single detail, if A is truly over?

 

 

 

As has been said in this thread; BS people are different and so the answer is not a one fit all situations. However, I can tell my story. I did not ask nor have I wanted to know ‘...every single detail". The one big one I did want to know is did you betray me, reject me, and replace me with another man? I finally got the answer and it was yes. That was enough for me to make up my mind what I was going to do; I did not need additional detail. I was going to concentrate mostly on me and my children and protect what I had as much as I could. I divorced her but she would not leave and I was not going to kick my children’s mother to the street.

 

 

She stayed and proved with actions for over 4 years that she was remorseful and so I remarried her. I do not want to know all the details because the one detail that was by far the deciding factor was that she put me in 3rd or 4 places in her life. I really like what Mrs. JA said because it really hits the nail on the head; she said

 

By Mrs JA

How do you say you "love" someone and yet do something to destroy them? You love yourself more. It is truly that simple. I loved me more....than I loved John.

 

 

I never blamed the OM I blamed my wife and she had no excuse. She made the commitment to me but the OM did not. There are ten million men that will bang your wife if she lets them. I am not going to fight 10 million men and none of them pledged to be loyal to me and to love me. They are just like a male dog looking for a female dog in heat.

 

 

I have no gross details that torment me I just have to adjust to the knowledge that my wife’s loyalty and commitment to me is not 100%. That is a tough pill to swallow but that is life and it has taught me something. That something is that you can never put all your trust and faith in your spouse to always do what is best for you; you have to become self-sufficient to some degree.

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3][/FONT][/sIZE]

[sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri][/sIZE][/FONT][/sIZE][/FONT]

Edited June 19, 2016 by Mr Blunt

[merrmeade]

If a couple is really wanting to work out their marriage & get to the bottom of the A, do BS really think it's healthy to know every single detail, if A is truly over?

 

My H & I got into this discussion last night & he says he regrets asking me questions about the sex part of the A, that he was in shock & allowed his ego to ask questions that he never really wanted to hear the answers to. I never asked for details on anything bc I didn't care. Once I wanted to work on our marriage i didn't care about the details of the A, just that we decided to work on it.

 

Another couple we know is going through this & BW keeps asking for details, WH tells her, she flips out, yet says she'll stay with him no matter what & will never leave him. I think that's fine but I don't understand her wanting to go through all that when, she's going to stay no matter what. Boggles my mind to why someone would do that to themselves knowing the WS answers won't affect you staying or leaving. I understand if it's a matter of staying & leaving to want to hear the details...I'm only asking those that already knew they were going to stay. What's the point of hearing all of that?

The fact is you are conjecturing about all of it. There's no "decision" to need the details. The BW you know needs them. She doesn't sit down and think about it, and she probably can't talk herself out of needing them either. She also can't help being upset when she hears them.

 

You sound like it's some logical decision people analyze and act on. None of it is like that. Your comments sound like judgments based on observation and conjecture rather than reflections from experience.

 

Your husband, on the other hand, is further out than this other BS and has the advantage of hindsight and some recovery to be able to say that the details are not such a good thing.

 

That's my honest reaction to your explanation, but it's also my answer to your question. Judging the NEED to know as healthy or not is not going to change the fact that the BS feels it.

 

The more appropriate and interesting question, imo, is when does a BS decide s/he has found out enough. This is the fact you have left out. Your question implies that some people need X amount of detail and others need Y amount, that it's a difference between individuals. Well, no. It's a difference between their stories. (1) What kind of affair and how long - and for this - WS remorse. (2) How much cover-up - and for this - WS willingness to explain and fill in gaps in a way that satisfies BS's need to know while conveying WS's genuine rejection of what s/he did and is now conveying. (3) WS treatment of BS during the affair - and for this - WS ability to identify, own/explain and reject this behavior.

 

It's NOT about the WS at all. It's about the entire process of reconciliation.

[elaine567]

Some people when faced with the death of a loved one by accident or murder want to know every detail, they want to go to where it happened, they want to investigate to the nth degree, they want to see the body no matter how badly mutilated, they are not content with anything less.

Others simply do not want to know anything, they prefer to now know any details, they do not want to see the body, they do not want to go to the place they were killed, they want to remember the person as they were, they do not want grisly details clouding their grief.

Some find the details help them come to terms, others find that the details haunt them.

 

I guess it is the same with affairs.

[merrmeade]

The error is that you have connected the conscious decision to stay with the visceral and irrational need to know. There is no connection. You assume there is control and decision to need it. There is not. And no amount of logic will change that. Only understanding of what happened and why that is shared between the WS and the BS. Decision and acceptance happen because of that.

• ... she flips out, yet says she'll stay with him no matter what & will never leave him. I think that's fine ...
  This is your judgment on her decision to stay which you've extended to her need to know. In fact, they are not connected. In fact, her need to know is neither fine, healthy, good or bad. It just is and will change when she finally understands what she needs to understand.
   
  
• I don't understand her wanting to go through all that ...
  That you don't understand is right but that she's "wanting to go through all that" is just plain wrong. No one "wants" to go through that.
   
  
• Boggles my mind to why someone would do that to themselves ...
  Again, you're assuming she's made a rational decision to 'do that to herself.'
   
  
• ... knowing the WS answers won't affect you staying or leaving.
  Also wrong. She doesn't "know" any such thing. She doesn't decide what to feel.
   
  
• I understand if it's a matter of staying & leaving to want to hear the details...
  Actually it can be like that. It can be so strong that leaving would leave the BS forever unsettled. I was like that.
   
  
• What's the point of hearing all of that?
  Again: It's your 'point' - not hers.
  

I'm not offended by how you saw this and really like the effort to make sense of it. Nor am I defensive of the BS helplessness with this particular issue (well, maybe a little). I do see that it is very difficult for a WS or even a hybrid WS/BS (not calling names bc I really don't know what you are ) to understand.

 

One other thing that needs to be understood is the WS can NEVER be the one to take the position you did with the BS - that going over whatever details is an 'unhealthy' conversation for them. That only complicates, delays and creates resentment.

 

My husband didn't understand either, but he did it anyway (gave me the details). It was doubly hard because of his own issues. The first time, he did it willingly and without holding back, but when he saw my reaction each succeeding time he did hold back. But I didn't - couldn't - let it go and kept asking until I got what I needed. At the time, it was very damaging to me that it took so long, but a few years later (and a little Wellbutrin), I can say we're past it.

 

Anyway, explaining all this and reading your explanation of a common misunderstanding makes me love my husband all the more. In fact, he didn't understand it any better, but despite this and his extreme issues he wanted to change. And he wanted me to accept him. So he stuck it out and so did I. We are better for it every day.

 

Mainly I see it as something that is best handled with as much awareness, love and communication (one or both) as possible. It's a matter of Reconciliation.

Edited June 19, 2016 by merrmeade

[Lois_Griffin]

Perhaps you know this guy will never get anywhere with you, but if your husband gets tempted again (and he has before) who will step up in his face and tell him to go home? This guy ?

Being blunt, if the OP is married to someone so damned disloyal and selfish that his FRIENDS have to be his moral police, then the OP is wasting her time.