Is it really healthy to know everything about the A if reconciling?

[malvern99]

I think learning all of the details of the A is important for a BS on a number of levels, especially if reconciliation is on the cards. I would assume many BSs feel a need to know the gory details because while they will be painful to hear, the alternative of filling in the blanks for themselves is far worse. It's better to fight demons you know than unnamed constantly shifting ones as a BS's mind races from one possibility to the next.

 

Making any decision (whether to R or D) before you know the full picture and extent of the betrayal is risky in my opinion. If the decision is to R, it sets up a situation where an unstable bomb is hidden in the foundation of the marriage, and any little hiccup (related to the affair or not) in the marriage down the road could set it off without warning. That's why I believe every little detail must be put on the table at the beginning before decisions are made, because it is only from that point that both the WS and the BS can authentically make their own decisions and together chart their course forward.

[Liam1]

I have no doubt that many WSs did not want to share SEXUAL details for fear of hurting their SO. There is no other reason to do so, once the affair comes to light

 

Ending the affair and re-engaging in the marriage is the way to engender trust. That's all that is required.

 

I do not believe that someone who has an affair is worried about losing their spouse.

 

If they were, and they have an average IQ, they would not venture into affair land.

 

Normal People who have an affair know full well that discovery of an affair may cause the partner to divorce or break off the relationship.

 

IMO, most normal people who have an affair are likely at an impasse in their relationship where the so called loyal partner will not seek counseling or continually refuses to work on a personal issues that are upsetting the WS.

 

In my opinion, most normal people embark on an affair because in their mind the affair will either destroy the marriage or save it by shining a light on the loyal partner's issues.

 

Issues the other partner is typically in denial about or continually refuses to acknowledge or address.

 

Remember I am talking about normal people in what to the outward world appear to be good marriages. I am not talking about personality disordered people who are obviously terrible mates to outside observers.

 

The problem with trusting another human being is that it is always a foolish thing to do, if one has any knowledge of human nature.

 

80 percent of people who ADMIT to having an affair have never had their affair discovered.

 

Stats on affairs are very difficult to compile, too, because most normal people do not want to talk about their affair. So that 80 percent number only pertains to those who are willing to ADMIT to an affair.

 

Everyone is vulnerable to an affair and to fail to acknowledge that makes one vulnerable to neglecting their partner because they blindly ASSUME that said partner will NEVER have an affair, no matter how they treat that person or how they fail to live up to their marital obligations.

 

Most people who have affairs, never thought they would. Some have even looked down on acquaintances who have had affairs.

 

Yet, when their own situations changes to something unbearable, they end up having an affair, too.

 

IMO, it's perhaps an unconscious wish to bring the relationship issues the other spouse refuses to address out into the open.

 

As the saying goes: Never say never.

 

Until one is dead or unless they never have any opportunity, they are vulnerable to an affair at some unbearable point in their marriage.

 

And for those who insist people should divorce instead of having an affair.., I say the same to all those who are badmouthing the spouse they chose to reconcile with.

 

Badmouthing your spouse behind his back, while proclaiming to want to sincerely reconcile, is just as deceitful as an affair.

 

If some people think that a person should divorce before having an affair because it is the honest thing to do....., then if a spouse no longer loves or respects or trusts their spouse, then divorcing that spouse rather than pretending to want to reconcile, is the right thing to do, too.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I believe that some folks make a whole lot of assumptions about others that are totally not applicable.

 

It is of course their right to do so...

 

However... I would like to caution those people that sometimes their advice does more damage than good.

 

And instead of making general statements perhaps should keep their information on a personal level so as not to assume their perceptions are accurate for all groups of people .

 

If you of course have experienced something personally then for you it is a fact... But to apply it to me or to others especially when it is absolutely not the case.. Makes it insulting.

 

Some people plan their affairs... Others do not. Some people have no clue as to why they have an affair... Others do.

 

Some people need and want all details of said affair from their partner others do not.

 

To say that no one needs to disclose details is making a very big assumption for others.

 

To say that all waywards know an affair will end a marriage is ridiculous since many folks here are in reconciliation.

 

I believe in truth and honesty. I believe in betrayed spouses taking back their power after infidelity has occured. I believe it is their right to do so.

 

I believe that waywArds need to become remorseful for their infidelity and accept all responsibility for the choice to cheat... Regardless of the circumstances involved in the relationship. I believe that a wayward must disclose all details that the betrayed asks for.. Whether they deem it necessary or Not.

 

I believe that there is always a better choice than having an affair.

[road]

I always encourage complete honesty... While I question whether I should have told all... I still did what I believe to be the right thing... We can never predict the outcome ... And hindsight is always easier than foresight.

 

If you read all my posts .. And I know you do.. I never encourage withholding information.

 

So I am not sure if you are reprimanding me or agreeing with me.

 

I can tell you ... It takes a tremendous amount of courage for a wayward to disclose...

 

We essentially place our future... Our destiny into the hands of the person we betrayed... Yes that's fair... Because after all we vowed to never cheat and we did.

 

We wrestle with keeping the secret and keeping safe or discloseing and risking everything. It takes a great deal of trust and hope to tell.

 

We see threads started here day after day with waywArds saying they will not disclose. I understand it yet I srongly disagree with not telling.

 

I appreciate the words of Meremeade so much... Because it truly is my goal to help waywards but to also help betrayed understand their wayward a bit better.

 

If I am nothing else... I am honest.

 

I never profess to have all the answers and I too learn much from being here.

 

Reconciliation is a process and we do the best we can but we all make mistakes.

 

I love seeing when others make progress.. It uplifts me and gives me hope.

 

 

Not that you told too much is that you told so much too fast.

 

 

Would of been better to let your BH lead the level of detail he wanted by letting him answer the questions and you only answering that specific question.

 

 

Example: Did you have sex with the AP?

 

 

Yes - is the best answer. The BS did not ask how many times, what acts/positions, how long did they have intercourse, was AP better.

 

 

It allows the BS to think before they ask do I need to know more.

 

 

They then can ask how many times. Then they can decide again if they need to know more. This is how the BS is allowed to control how much is told.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Road you are correct

 

I told too much too fast

 

I told in the dark laying beside him in bed

 

I should have talked to him where I could have watched and measured his reactions to my words.

 

I made many many mistakes.

[Lobe]

Liam1, I feel like your posts usually point the finger back at the shortcomings of the betrayed spouse as the primary cause of infidelity. I hear a lot of veiled anger and blame. I am not sure your generalizations are based on general facts so much as your personal bias.

 

I realize there are exceptions to the rule and that there are some serial narcissistic cheaters out there, but I'm going to talk about your average run of the mill married couple who runs off the rails here.

 

Most of what I have read here as well as in research papers, books, and other forums is that there was a breakdown in communication between the WS and BS that ultimately led to the affair. It takes two to make a marriage, and two to break a marriage. The BS may have cut the WS off from sex but maybe that's because the WS just wanted to bang one out but never spend time talking or cuddling. The WS might have a drinking problem but the WS supplies the alcohol. The BS might have thought they were happy because the WS was too scared or ashamed to talk to the BS and ended up accidentally making a connection outside of instead of back inside the marriage. The BS might be an overbearing uptight jerkwad, but the WS might be indecisive and codependent. The BS might be a manipulative b*tch but the WS always had the ability to say, "I can't live like this anymore..." and leave.

 

The story doesn't go, "My mistake was having an affair but the BS is the problem. I'd feel guilty about my affair but since BS didn't make changes to keep me happy, I did what I had to do." The BS and WS share responsibility for the breakdown of the marriage; it is NEVER the BSs fault that the WS chooses infidelity instead of a) working it out or b) leaving. Healing the marriage requires rebuilding trust, and if the only thing you can focus on is making sure that your partner takes at least half the blame for you going astray, I feel like your marriage won't stand a chance. If my WH still harped as frequently and vehemently as you do about me taking responsibility for the marital problems that caused the affair, I assure you I would have done the leaving long ago. In our case, on the surface according to your logic I cut my WH off sex and that's why he had the affair, but it was WAY more complex than that. After working backwards to way before we grew apart, we figured out where we went wrong and realized we were both idiots who had made multiple mistakes that compounded over the years. And the root of the problem? We had stopped communicating to the point we both felt lonely, unloved, and like we didn't know or understand the other person anymore.

 

Relating back to the original topic of this post, do BSs really need to know all the details of the A? Yes, whichever ones are relevant to deciding whether they want to reconcile or divorce. I strongly recommend watching Esther Perel's TedTalk on infidelity, in particular the part where she says that it's important for the BS to ask all the questions, and to dig even deeper than the details, into how the affair made the WS feel, because MORE honesty and communication is needed to build trust and understanding. Not more lying by omission and blame shifting.

[merrmeade]

You know, now that I'm on the downside of healing, I understand all the communication issues we had for a while after Dday. Who's prepared for that interaction? Neither the WS nor the BS. WS may say too much or the wrong way; BS doesn't know how to ask. It's a crazy time to say the least and causes a whole new layer of problems to get over. But, please, do not blame the BS or say s/he "should think" about it more and I won't say the WS "should" know perfectly, exactly how and how much to divulge. Everyone's a novice in those exchanges and, if they're not, they're psychopaths and it's a whole new conversation.

 

I remember WH admitting for the first time that they'd been sexually intimate. He told me what she did and then, of course, I asked what he did to her. He certainly wasn't prepared with the vocabulary, so he demonstrated with his hands. Gross. Trauma. Horrific setup for mind movies. Permanently scorched in my brain.

 

So before I contradict and give myself a PTSD moment, I'll just say that MOSTLY these days (except when I'm describing it in an LS post) I feel some degree of charity, realizing that there were other reasons besides shame, fear of consequence, etc. affecting his answers.

[wmacbride]

I do agree that it takes a tremendous amount of courage on the part of a repentant and remorseful ws to come clean with the details of the A if the bs asks to hear them.

 

I haven't been in that position myself, but I can imagine how it much be hard to look in the face of the person you have hurt so much and really do love and care for and lay your darkest moments at their feet.

 

The fear of rejection, of seeing the pain in their eyes and of facing what you have done sounds terrible, yet these are some ws who are brave enough to do it.

 

It's taking a leap of faith that your bs will be able to find enough love and forgiveness to stay and work through the problems, and I often wonder f there are some ws who feel they don't deserve it.

 

In the end, it usually turns out to be the right thing to do. How can trust in a relationship be built of a shifting foundation of lies? these are not platitudes about questions like "does this dress make my rear end look big?" or " do you like the cake I just baked" . they are at the very heart of the relationship. If a bs feels they can't trust their ws to tell them the truth about the A, how can they trust them about other facets of the marriage?

 

Assuming the bs will never find out the truth is also hubris on the part of the ws. How does he or she know for sure the bs won't find out from the om or ow or in some other way?

[wmacbride]

Liam1, I feel like your posts usually point the finger back at the shortcomings of the betrayed spouse as the primary cause of infidelity. I hear a lot of veiled anger and blame. I am not sure your generalizations are based on general facts so much as your personal bias.

 

I realize there are exceptions to the rule and that there are some serial narcissistic cheaters out there, but I'm going to talk about your average run of the mill married couple who runs off the rails here.

 

Most of what I have read here as well as in research papers, books, and other forums is that there was a breakdown in communication between the WS and BS that ultimately led to the affair. It takes two to make a marriage, and two to break a marriage. The BS may have cut the WS off from sex but maybe that's because the WS just wanted to bang one out but never spend time talking or cuddling. The WS might have a drinking problem but the WS supplies the alcohol. The BS might have thought they were happy because the WS was too scared or ashamed to talk to the BS and ended up accidentally making a connection outside of instead of back inside the marriage. The BS might be an overbearing uptight jerkwad, but the WS might be indecisive and codependent. The BS might be a manipulative b*tch but the WS always had the ability to say, "I can't live like this anymore..." and leave.

 

The story doesn't go, "My mistake was having an affair but the BS is the problem. I'd feel guilty about my affair but since BS didn't make changes to keep me happy, I did what I had to do." The BS and WS share responsibility for the breakdown of the marriage; it is NEVER the BSs fault that the WS chooses infidelity instead of a) working it out or b) leaving. Healing the marriage requires rebuilding trust, and if the only thing you can focus on is making sure that your partner takes at least half the blame for you going astray, I feel like your marriage won't stand a chance. If my WH still harped as frequently and vehemently as you do about me taking responsibility for the marital problems that caused the affair, I assure you I would have done the leaving long ago. In our case, on the surface according to your logic I cut my WH off sex and that's why he had the affair, but it was WAY more complex than that. After working backwards to way before we grew apart, we figured out where we went wrong and realized we were both idiots who had made multiple mistakes that compounded over the years. And the root of the problem? We had stopped communicating to the point we both felt lonely, unloved, and like we didn't know or understand the other person anymore.

 

Relating back to the original topic of this post, do BSs really need to know all the details of the A? Yes, whichever ones are relevant to deciding whether they want to reconcile or divorce. I strongly recommend watching Esther Perel's TedTalk on infidelity, in particular the part where she says that it's important for the BS to ask all the questions, and to dig even deeper than the details, into how the affair made the WS feel, because MORE honesty and communication is needed to build trust and understanding. Not more lying by omission and blame shifting.

 

Exactly. If the bs is 50 %responsible for issues in a marriage, then the ws is also 50% responsible.

A few ws are not able to get their heads around that. everything is always someone elses fault.

[Lobe]

It's taking a leap of faith that your bs will be able to find enough love and forgiveness to stay and work through the problems, and I often wonder f there are some ws who feel they don't deserve it.

 

Yes yes yes yes yes. This. Disclosure, no matter how deep or shallow the details get, isn't about the details. It's a trust exercise, for both partners. WH needed to trust that I could handle the truth as much as I needed to trust he would tell the truth. When he stopped lying, I stopped asking.

[Mrs. John Adams]

The word justification comes to mind.

 

In Christianity justification means just as if I had never sinned.

 

In infidelity it means exactly the same thing.

 

If my cheating is justified by the behavior of my betrayed... Then surly I am innocent and not accountable.

 

And therein lies the issue.

 

In order to be justified someone else has to pay the price... Must pay the sacrifice.

 

God provided for my sins a lamb....

 

Some waywards provide a sacrifice for thei behavior as well

 

The betrayed spouse

 

Relationships are complicated even in the very best of circumstances.

 

My decision to cheat is fully and completely on me... There is no justification for my behavior.

 

How can I achieve remorse if I am not willing to accept responsibility for my behavior?

 

How can I help my spouse heal if I remain silent about my infidelity?

 

How can we move forward if I don't answer his questions?

 

How can we learn to understand if we do not disclose?

 

It boggles my mind

[ladydesigner]

I believe that there is always a better choice than having an affair.

 

I believe the same Mrs. Adams. I have always felt like an A was basically saying I'm done with this M. Similar to what Liam said I feel a lot of WS may actually feel DONE with the M until they are actually faced with the reality of losing the M then comes all the backsliding. I don't even think WS's realize this until faced with the reality of losing their BS.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I have no doubt that many WSs did not want to share SEXUAL details for fear of hurting their SO. There is no other reason to do so, once the affair comes to light

 

Ending the affair and re-engaging in the marriage is the way to engender trust. That's all that is required.

 

I do not believe that someone who has an affair is worried about losing their spouse.

 

...so called loyal partner will not seek counseling or continually refuses to work on a personal issues that are upsetting the WS.

 

In my opinion, most normal people embark on an affair because in their mind the affair will either destroy the marriage or save it by shining a light on the loyal partner's issues.

 

Issues the other partner is typically in denial about or continually refuses to acknowledge or address.

 

....no matter how they treat that person or how they fail to live up to their marital obligations.

 

...the relationship issues the other spouse refuses to address out into the open.

...

 

I'm not going to spend the time and effort to refute your constant blame-shifting onto the BS. In short, if my WW had this attitude I would've kicked her to the curb a long time ago. Good riddance! My WW showed humility, penance, and remorse instead of blame-shifting.

 

To stay on point with the OP: A BS should know the full scope of the deception and betrayal regardless if the BS decides to stay or go. Saying that the WS is determined to stay should not automatically equate to rug-sweeping. In other words, staying and wanting to know the details are not mutually exclusive.

 

The WS should not be the self-appointed gatekeeper of information. That does not "engender trust". Quite the opposite.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I believe the same Mrs. Adams. I have always felt like an A was basically saying I'm done with this M. Similar to what Liam said I feel a lot of WS may actually feel DONE with the M until they are actually faced with the reality of losing the M then comes all the backsliding. I don't even think WS's realize this until faced with the reality of losing their BS.

 

I can only speak for me...but i can tell you...in the heat of the moment i did not think about my husband....it was afterwards when i became frightened and thought what have i done? It was then that i began to process...it was then i called my mom.

 

I knew that divorce was likely...AFTER the fact...but I did not think about it before...because honestly....if i had truly thought about it....If i had talked to my mom about it before i did it....I can say..I would not have done it.

 

That's the trouble...with many waywards...they don't think about the consequences. Now some waywards...plan their affair....and go into it not caring if they divorce or not. But that was not my case. I was scared to death that i was going to lose everything....and i have done everything i know to do since that time...to make sure I never risk my family again.

[ladydesigner]

I do not believe that someone who has an affair is worried about losing their spouse.

 

If they were, and they have an average IQ, they would not venture into affair land.

 

 

I know when I had my RA I was definitely ready to lose the M so what you are saying definitely applies to my situation.

 

My WH I just don't know or understand. I will never understand why he chose to put me through 2 more years of False R making me believe we were on a good track only to be betrayed again. My WH basically tortured me for a whole year, I spent 2 weeks in a mental hospital and he still felt it was in HIS best interest to betray me some more. Is that being not worried about losing the spouse? IDK?

 

On a side note I just told my WH EVERYTHING about how I have been feeling because I have not been authentic in this M as of recently, even as far as asking for a D. We have officially decided to give R one last shot, with BOTH of us contributing to the M.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I know when I had my RA I was definitely ready to lose the M so what you are saying definitely applies to my situation.

 

My WH I just don't know or understand. I will never understand why he chose to put me through 2 more years of False R making me believe we were on a good track only to be betrayed again. My WH basically tortured me for a whole year, I spent 2 weeks in a mental hospital and he still felt it was in HIS best interest to betray me some more. Is that being not worried about losing the spouse? IDK?

 

On a side note I just told my WH EVERYTHING about how I have been feeling because I have not been authentic in this M as of recently, even as far as asking for a D. We have officially decided to give R one last shot, with BOTH of us contributing to the M.

 

John told me...when he had his RA...he hoped I would pull the plug on us...because then it would have been my fault and my decision....but when i forgave him because i felt i deserved it...he was shocked.

 

Oh the webs we weave huh?

[merrmeade]

Exactly. If the bs is 50 %responsible for issues in a marriage, then the ws is also 50% responsible.

A few ws are not able to get their heads around that. everything is always someone elses fault.

Not sure this bs, for one, can get my head around the 50% part (or 40, 30, 20 - maybe 10% on the bs side). Oh, my heart was always willing to go 50/50 with other things in the marriage and skip the blame game.

 

But now that my head actually KNOWS his story and many other stories on LS as well as opinions of experts and results of studies (essentially what "Not Just Friends" is based on), well, it's a lot less inclined to share the responsibility for the affair, thank you very much.

 

Nor has my WH ever expected me to - nor given me to think he would expect it. Nope. He says it's 100% on him. Yet I say, no, there are lots of things I did wrong. And this is one reason WHY we're still working at it and hopeful. He doesn't EXPECT me to forgive him or blame myself even a little - yet I do. I don't expect him to take all the blame unconditionally - yet he does. And that keeps us going.

 

The minute we get selfish about it - you did this, you were this way, etc. - we're trapped in a detour. And, oh, it's happened a lot. What the hell else will a bs do right after dday? but it's easier now...

Edited June 23, 2016 by merrmeade

[Lobe]

...it's a lot less inclined to share the responsibility for the affair, thank you very much.

 

I accept 0% responsibility for my husband's affair. That's all on him. I'll take responsibility for 50% (49% anyways) for the gaping hole in our marriage that needed to be filled, but I won't ever say it I was on board with him filling it with a secret sister wife...

[drifter777]

Relating back to the original topic of this post, do BSs really need to know all the details of the A? Yes, whichever ones are relevant to deciding whether they want to reconcile or divorce. I strongly recommend watching Esther Perel's TedTalk on infidelity, in particular the part where she says that it's important for the BS to ask all the questions, and to dig even deeper than the details, into how the affair made the WS feel, because MORE honesty and communication is needed to build trust and understanding. Not more lying by omission and blame shifting.

 

In the case of a BH, I think it is vital that he get all of the information he wants from WW so that he can decide as early as possible on divorce. Trickle truth is a torture for both BH and WW so getting all of the dirty, nasty details out in the open right after d-day is good for both. This can avoid a lot of false R. It's also likely that if BH believes he knows the whole truth about the sex his mind-movies will be somewhat restricted as to just what happened. If he doesn't know - or doesn't believe WW has been truthful and forthcoming regarding the sex - there is no limit to his imagination.

[Sunkissedpatio]

I accept 0% responsibility for my husband's affair. That's all on him. I'll take responsibility for 50% (49% anyways) for the gaping hole in our marriage that needed to be filled, but I won't ever say it I was on board with him filling it with a secret sister wife...

 

Seriously! I totally agree.

 

What a pile of poo it is to say that the BS is somewhat responsible for the affair. If I werr 50% responsible for our relationship issues he was responsible for the other 50% so according to that logic I had every right to go out and bang some other dude and fall in love with him as well? Because let me tell you, I was suffering all the crap from his 50% just as hard as he was.

 

I can tell your right now what would have happened if I slept with another man, he would have walked, no questions asked. Even though he was 50% responsible for the relationship problems. Using that as the excuse would never wash.

[Lobe]

I had every right to go out and bang some other dude and fall in love with him as well?

 

Enter the revenge affair... LOL

[merrmeade]

Normal People who have an affair know full well that discovery of an affair may cause the partner to divorce or break off the relationship.

 

IMO, most normal people who have an affair are likely at an impasse in their relationship where the so called loyal partner will not seek counseling or continually refuses to work on a personal issues that are upsetting the WS.

 

In my opinion, most normal people embark on an affair because in their mind the affair will either destroy the marriage or save it by shining a light on the loyal partner's issues.

 

Issues the other partner is typically in denial about or continually refuses to acknowledge or address.

 

Remember I am talking about normal people in what to the outward world appear to be good marriages. I am not talking about personality disordered people who are obviously terrible mates to outside observers.

 

The problem with trusting another human being is that it is always a foolish thing to do, if one has any knowledge of human nature.

 

80 percent of people who ADMIT to having an affair have never had their affair discovered.

 

Stats on affairs are very difficult to compile, too, because most normal people do not want to talk about their affair. So that 80 percent number only pertains to those who are willing to ADMIT to an affair.

 

Everyone is vulnerable to an affair and to fail to acknowledge that makes one vulnerable to neglecting their partner because they blindly ASSUME that said partner will NEVER have an affair, no matter how they treat that person or how they fail to live up to their marital obligations.

 

Most people who have affairs, never thought they would. Some have even looked down on acquaintances who have had affairs.

 

Yet, when their own situations changes to something unbearable, they end up having an affair, too.

 

IMO, it's perhaps an unconscious wish to bring the relationship issues the other spouse refuses to address out into the open.

 

As the saying goes: Never say never....

Never say never - right because I'm not a ws and, therefore, not a "normal" person?

 

No that was facetious; I do get the point but disagree with the application of it. The premise that normal people are susceptible to affairs is unarguable or at least has been supported by Glass and other experts.

 

But I WOULD argue that, once they start down that path, they have left the realm of "most normal people." Affairs are not normal. Therefore, wayward spouses are not normal precisely BECAUSE they do not acknowledge the aberration of their thinking and actions.

 

I have to be somewhere but couldn't let this sit. I wish I were still reading the tone of the humble - helpful to ws in danger of ruining their lives and considerate of the bs experience - posts you started LS with in March.

[ladydesigner]

Seriously! I totally agree.

 

What a pile of poo it is to say that the BS is somewhat responsible for the affair. If I werr 50% responsible for our relationship issues he was responsible for the other 50% so according to that logic I had every right to go out and bang some other dude and fall in love with him as well? Because let me tell you, I was suffering all the crap from his 50% just as hard as he was.

 

I can tell your right now what would have happened if I slept with another man, he would have walked, no questions asked. Even though he was 50% responsible for the relationship problems. Using that as the excuse would never wash.

 

Exactly and THIS is precisely the reason the marital problems should not be discussed until after the A has been dealt with first.

[understand50]

Exactly and THIS is precisely the reason the marital problems should not be discussed until after the A has been dealt with first.

 

 

I agree, you must deal with the large betrayal before any other issues came be addressed. Sometime, both can be done at the same time, but addressing the other issues is a by product of reconciliation. Example, after I discovered how much my wife put us into debt and will all the saving gone, we started date night, as we needed something positive to do together. This was only after I, We, decided to stay together. I guess, once a sincere, chose has been made to reconcile, doing positive things to re-enforce your relationship should happen along with all the hard questions that need to be asked. As I said to may wife, it is not fair to you or me, that I am angry 24/7, so we need to find a way to take a beak and be a couple, if only for a night.

 

So, I think, that along with all the hard questions, things should be tempered at bit. Do not let the infidelity, or any other crises, be ruff swept, but remember, trying to be loving, trying to be understanding, can get more information then just being angry. I never could understand the position, of the catch 22, "tell me everything, and if you did X, I am gone" This is an impossible chose being given. We should expect, the BS to keep details to themselves.

 

We talked about trust right after the BS finding out. I think more details can come out, and more can be done if both, try and step back and try and find some trust. Trust that the WS is being open and honest, and trust the BS will listen and then take time to make a decision, on reconciliation or divorce. The sad part, is for both, if the WS can be honest, and really trust that what they say will be heard and they will not just be beat down. The whole issue of the cheating, is now in the open and the BS can make intelligent decisions, divorce, or reconciliation, and once made, both can work at the best possible outcome.

 

Of course the reality is that everything is done is a hot and angry environment. With fear and hurt. D-Day, and infidelity is like a crash, you may think you can control it, but you never do. All you can do, while it is happening is try to remember, there is another day tomorrow, and that life does go on.

 

My two cents.............

[merrmeade]

In the case of a BH, I think it is vital that he get all of the information he wants from WW ...Trickle truth is a torture for both BH and WW s... It's also likely that if BH believes - or doesn't believe WW has been truthful ...

Why, oh why, do you once again insist on making the BS an H and the WS a W??? ESPECIALLY with the point you are making? Why in hell would a BH feel this and not a BW? Why would a WW be less forthcoming than a WH? What you describe is EXACTLY how I felt, exactly how my BH was. Do we have to then discuss whether he and I are anomalies?

 

Here we've been going along just fine through this illuminating thread discussing a topic that's shared by many PEOPLE with similar experiences and circumstances as they work through post-affair effects in a marriage. Sometimes we give personal examples. Very occasionally someone says maybe it's different for women or men, but if anyone does decide to comment on the difference between how one sex or the other reacts to something, the poster freaking says WHY and why it's important.

 

The unnecessary and artificial division into gender is CONFUSING (nevermind sexist), especially because there's an assumption implied that it doesn't need to be explained. Every time someONE does this, I have to stop and think - Hmmm, is he intentionally limiting it? Is he saying it's NOT true for the other sex? Or can he just not get his head out of how awful his wife was to HIM? Or are you extrapolating to all women somehow? Why should the BWs and WHs have to work so freaking hard to use your INCISIVE comments and observations??? Whatever the issue, it would be most helpful to ALL if you would share your experience and astute observations in general and not muddy the water further. It's stinky enough as it is.

 

What would've been so hard with writing it this way:

In the case of a bS, I think it is vital to get all of the information necessary from wS to decide as early as possible on divorce. Trickle truth is a torture for both bS and wS so getting all of the dirty, nasty details out in the open right after d-day is good for both. This can avoid a lot of false R. It's also likely that if bS believes s/he knows the whole truth about the sex the mind-movies will be somewhat restricted as to just what happened. If s/he doesn't know - or doesn't believe wS has been truthful and forthcoming regarding the sex - there is no limit to the imagination.

In fact, it wasn't hard at all and I find your succinct characterization of the experience most helpful. Thanks. Edited June 24, 2016 by merrmeade