Trying to work it out [updated 2017-03-17]

[aileD]

oh sweetie.

 

Please don't listen to anything he says. Don't envy Jess, feel sorry she is stuck with someone who could write a letter like that one. (Please keep it for child support purposes).

 

The response from your mom....I can see you probably grew up this way and it damaged your self esteem and attracted a bunch of abusers to you.

 

You're not worthless.

 

Listen to me. Listen!!!!

 

You have 12 weeks till that baby is born. You need to get into counseling TODAY. 12 weeks of counseling should give you a good start at loving yourself and being able to be a good role model self esteem wise for your unborn daughter.

 

If you don't think you're worth it enough to do it for you....then do it for HER.

 

Don't let these people hold you down. Their vitriol is a relfection on THeM and their character and not on you as a person.

 

Please call a therapist today.

Edited November 16, 2016 by aileD

[doyathinkso]

1) GIVE THE BABY UP FOR ADOPTION !!!

 

2) Baby daddy dipstick says "Don't expect me to play a part in the kids life." EXCELLENT NEWS!!! Do not let this j*ckoff get anywhere near the birth certificate, let alone sign it.

 

3) You say your ex-fiance is pulling away. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. He is most certainly weirded out by your pregnancy, but, can you blame him? I am pro-life except in extraordinary circumstances and you most certainly are in extraordinary circumstances. Should have aborted when you had a chance, but, what's done is done. Your ex-fiance is still by your side! Please don't get all hormonal and push him away.

 

You know something Kailah? You are the reason that I signed up here at Loveshack. I read your first post and saw that you had stepped on a land-mine and blown your life to bits and were completely freaking out. You needed positive support and weren't getting much of it and got even more off the rails. Get back on them.

Your old boyfriend is still there and he's trying, but he's really really hurt, as are you. Let him know how much you appreciate his being there and how sorry you are. And think long and hard about points 1 and 2.

 

Hang in there kiddo. It's always darkest before the dawn.

[SoulCat]

I agree with Expat, this was most likely written by 'Jess' or by him under direction of Jess.

Pay no heed, but keep it for future reference.

 

You made some unfortunate choices but you are not a sl*t, you do not have a nasty body, you are not the person they are making you out to be in that message.

 

You are simply a young woman who made a mistake and is dealing with the life-changing consequences as best she can.

 

Block him, block this 'Jess' and continue on your path.

 

Be strong.

Don't let this define your life. Please.

Edited November 16, 2016 by SoulCat

[Scarlett.O'hara]

Look, I understand that his vile words have upset you and that you now feel the need to justify them, but don't!

 

You are focusing on the most trivial part of the letter. Instead you should be focusing on the statements below..

 

"There is nothing more I want in life than for you to die and get off this planet."

 

"I would be happiest if you and that kid were dead."

 

"You only have her because I put her there, and I can take her away."

 

These are threats against you and your baby's life! I repeat, death threats!!

 

I urge you to take this to the police and get a restraining order immediately.. I'm serious about this. Forget about the insults, they mean nothing, but the threatening words are something you should take very seriously.

 

Please get a restraining order.

[doyathinkso]

Yes, that should have been point 4, so ...

 

 

4) Get a restraining order, order of protection, or whatever they call it in your jurisdiction.

[DrReplyInRhymes]

Seriously sounds like an episode of Jerry Springer.

 

Have you ever stopped to ask yourself what you want from all this?

 

Ask yourself this question another week down the road (you know...to compensate for hormonal imbalance you are experiencing at the start of your third trimester) and see if it remains the same.

 

You went from rape to cheating to baby daddy to boyfriend and now it seems you want to give your child up for adoption and be single.

 

Which is it?

[olivetree]

That email was absolutely sent by Jess. She's clearly crazy. And very jealous of you. Don't let it get to you.

 

What a tough situation for you and your bf. I agree that if you're not in therapy you absolutely should be to deal with everything you're going through, including your conflicted feelings about adoption.

 

Don't be too hard on yourself about your weight either. If you are eating healthy and normal and staying active, then maybe you're just retaining a lot of water. I've never been pregnant... I really have no idea but it sounds like you're doing great in that department.

[kailah]

Because I'm stupid I've looked at her Facebook before, and they have a ton of pictures posted together. He's left comments about how beautiful she looks and how much he can't wait to be a dad. Some videos of the baby moving, professional maternity pictures in which they very much look like a couple. With me he said pregnancy was disgusting and he didn't want to see ultrasounds or try and feel the baby. She wins. She got the guy to actually want her. We're both pregnant with his baby, yet me and my baby are garbage while she is "the most amazing woman ever" and their baby is "the most precious gift he could ask for". She wins. If it was her that sent that... why would she send something so hateful? How could a woman, in very similar shoes to myself, say that to someone else? Why would she say things that could get him in trouble, or lies (like me sleeping with 3 guys)?

 

In the situation, I'm the one that got screwed. She is due 3 months before me so most likely he knew that she was pregnant when he hooked up with me. I don't know what their relationship (if there was one) was like when we hooked up and after when we continued to. He didn't mention her. Maybe they were together and he cheated, I don't know. But he chose her and their baby. He chose to treat them well and me and my baby like crap.

 

I don't know what I did to make my daughter's dad not want her, but want her half-sibling. Nor do I know how I'm supposed to explain that to her one day. For whatever reason, she was worth it and I'm not. It makes me wonder if my BF thinks the same; what's so wrong with me. He doesn't know about the email and I don't want to show him. I can't hide how I'm feeling though, he'll know something is wrong. Reading that will hurt him too, I think hurting both of us was the intention.

 

He feels so out of place because the baby isn't his. He doesn't want me to get attached to the idea of having him around or dependent on him, in case he changes his mind. He said that he already feels terrible about possibly having to leave me to deal with this all alone and struggle alone. It's not even his baby and he feels a sense of obligation to stay with me... On another side of things, he doesn't want to raise another mans child and never be her father. He doesn't want to deal with the bio-dad for the rest of his life and have him constantly interrupting our lives. He doesn't know if he can handle that and move on from me cheating. And then on another side of things, he says he can see us getting past it and being happy. And that if I can keep bio-dad off the birth certificate he'd sign it (again, sense of obligation...).

 

He says that he wants to be involved but can't get over that it isn't his baby. He doesn't want to be disrespectful, even though I've told him that I want him to be involved as much as he is comfortable with. He also doesn't want to get attached himself, in case he changes his mind and wants out. He needs more time to figure it out and see if we can recover our relationship, unfortunately time isn't on our side before things get a lot harder.

 

For a day I'd love to just feel like I'm having a normal pregnancy with a guy who loves me and wants me, and wants to be a part of the pregnancy.

 

We want to work on our relationship with each other first before bringing a baby into it, but there is always a huge elephant in the room. Me being obviously pregnant. We can never just "forget" about it and focus on us. When we are out he has been asked if it's his first baby and it's always awkward. Sometimes he says it's not his, and even though it's the truth it hurts a lot. I wish it was his.

 

I wish my pregnancy could be a happy time and I could share it with someone. My BF never wants to hear about it (obviously). My mom just finds things to judge. My dad doesn't want to hear about "his baby being pregnant". My friends don't have babies so they don't understand. I feel judged all the time when I'm out and feel like people are looking at me. I feel judged by medical staff. I have been having to go for 2x weekly tests and often get asked about my "husband" or if anyone else is joining us. Sometimes I have lied just to make myself feel less ashamed.

 

What I want.... I want my daughter to be born into a happy environment. I want to be able to raise my daughter to be happy and confident. I want my daughter to have a father who treasures her and adores her and loves her. I want to have a good relationship with her father, for her. I want my BF and I to work it out and be happy together. I want him to feel secure enough to be involved in her life and to be happy being with us. I want all of us to be able to get along well enough to raise a happy child.

 

That will never happen though, unless a miracle happens. The next best thing is the bio-dad leaving forever and leaving us alone. Signing his rights away and vanishing. And again, my ex and I working it out and being happy together. Raising a happy daughter.

 

That also doesn't seem likely based on the bio-dads actions. He is still refusing to allow an adoption to go through. It is only going through the adoption agency at this point, and he will not allow it. A prenatal DNA test was done and there is no way I can keep him off the birth certificate legally.

 

So the next best thing would be if he would agree to an adoption, which he absolutely won't. I want my daughter. Letting her go would be the hardest thing I'd have to do. It would be better for her than having this ass-hat around. I would always want her, miss her and I don't know how I'd live without her. I'd be making the right decision for HER. Whether she came home with me or not, I'd still want to work things out with my ex.

 

I have thought about going to the police with it.... I don't want to keep going deeper and deeper into this. I just want it to go away, as much as it can. I don't want it to get messier and messier. If I retaliate, he might as well. His name wasn't attached to it at all, I don't know if they could prove that it was him (or his girlfriend) who sent it.

 

I do have a therapist that I see, I can't say that it helps. I want it to be over and done with. I can't handle the stress that I get from the babies bio-dad and everything he does. I have been having to go for tests 2x a week and I keep getting told to limit my stress. I block him from everything, yet I still get things like this. I can't deal with it, my body can't deal with it. I had contractions most of the day and had to see my doctor. It was fine, but maybe next time it won't be. I can't do it anymore.

[Scarlett.O'hara]

Let the police/courts deal with him.

[olivetree]

Sorry after reading your post (458) I take back what I said. It was quite possibly the bio dad who sent that. What a vile human. Did his texting assaults come out of nowhere after Jess contacted you on fb a while ago? All seems so weird to me.

 

Stop blaming yourself for his bad treatment of you. Those cruel words are a reflection of him, not you.

[doyathinkso]

Kailah you said "I have thought about going to the police with it....".

 

Go to the police with your story and this email and I believe you could get an Order of Protection, Restraining Order, whatever.

 

With that in place I fail to see how you could be legally blocked from placing the child up for adoption. This is where you have to shop around for a lawyer to help steer you through this. The initial consult is usually free to determine if you have a case. Check out more than one lawyer and find the one that will work for you. Do not go alone for the consult. Take your ex-fiance with you to help keep you from getting flustered and to stay on message.

Edited November 17, 2016 by doyathinkso

[kailah]

He has been saying things like that since before I knew about this other girl. Even when we were... "seeing each other"... Not to this extent, it was more like he just said what was on his mind with no filter. He wasn't usually going out of his way to make me upset. It got worse once I knew about her.

 

Part of me doesn't want to go to the police because I don't know if they would do anything about it. One of his parents is a cop... and he has said that he's gotten away with very illegal things before. One thing would have had some serious jail time and a huge fine, it wasn't violent at all, but was all over the news. He got away with it completely.

 

Why go through it if he'll get away with it.

 

I do have a lawyer who I've spoken to about the adoption. A restraining order wouldn't stop the adoption at all... all it would do is require a 3rd party to do pick up and drop offs in a custody agreement. At most he'd get supervised visitation, but even that's far fetched apparently because he doesn't have a record, and hasnt been physically violent. Maybe with this email it could be more likely.

 

Restraining order or not, criminal record or not, he still has parental rights. Apparently even rapists in jail have gotten visitation of their kids (conceived by rape).

 

The province I live in is very anti-adoption. They don't have adoption agencies so unless you go out of the province or find an adoptive couple on your own, your baby just goes into the system and may never be adopted. They will try to place the baby with family first. If someone in his family took her, he's still have access to her while I'd have none. They try to make it hard for couples to adopt as well, and she could sit in the system for years while people try.

 

I've spoken to an outside adoption agency and have an adoption counselor here. But they need his complete cooperation. After he was contacted by an adoption lawyer he sent a letter back saying how horrible I am and that I'm abandoning my baby, refusing him to be a part, mentally unstable, etc. That letter will sit in the adoption folder forever. And if she is placed for adoption it's something she could read one day.

 

I just want this to go as smoothly as possible... if going to the police isn't going to do anything but cause more tension, I don't know if I should. My bf was ts me to press every charge in the book as if it's some sort of proof that I don't want to be with him and he really is this horrible. Even though I've told him everything he still wants me to try and have him charged with rape. His his words... He wants the bio-dad to pay for ruining my/our life. That's how he sees it.

[doyathinkso]

"My bf was ts me to press every charge in the book as if it's some sort of proof that I don't want to be with him and he really is this horrible. Even though I've told him everything he still wants me to try and have him charged with rape. His his words... He wants the bio-dad to pay for ruining my/our life. That's how he sees it."

 

 

And he is right!

[olivetree]

He has been saying things like that since before I knew about this other girl. Even when we were... "seeing each other"... Not to this extent, it was more like he just said what was on his mind with no filter. He wasn't usually going out of his way to make me upset. It got worse once I knew about her.

 

Part of me doesn't want to go to the police because I don't know if they would do anything about it. One of his parents is a cop... and he has said that he's gotten away with very illegal things before. One thing would have had some serious jail time and a huge fine, it wasn't violent at all, but was all over the news. He got away with it completely.

 

Why go through it if he'll get away with it.

 

I do have a lawyer who I've spoken to about the adoption. A restraining order wouldn't stop the adoption at all... all it would do is require a 3rd party to do pick up and drop offs in a custody agreement. At most he'd get supervised visitation, but even that's far fetched apparently because he doesn't have a record, and hasnt been physically violent. Maybe with this email it could be more likely.

 

Restraining order or not, criminal record or not, he still has parental rights. Apparently even rapists in jail have gotten visitation of their kids (conceived by rape).

 

The province I live in is very anti-adoption. They don't have adoption agencies so unless you go out of the province or find an adoptive couple on your own, your baby just goes into the system and may never be adopted. They will try to place the baby with family first. If someone in his family took her, he's still have access to her while I'd have none. They try to make it hard for couples to adopt as well, and she could sit in the system for years while people try.

 

I've spoken to an outside adoption agency and have an adoption counselor here. But they need his complete cooperation. After he was contacted by an adoption lawyer he sent a letter back saying how horrible I am and that I'm abandoning my baby, refusing him to be a part, mentally unstable, etc. That letter will sit in the adoption folder forever. And if she is placed for adoption it's something she could read one day.

 

I just want this to go as smoothly as possible... if going to the police isn't going to do anything but cause more tension, I don't know if I should. My bf was ts me to press every charge in the book as if it's some sort of proof that I don't want to be with him and he really is this horrible. Even though I've told him everything he still wants me to try and have him charged with rape. His his words... He wants the bio-dad to pay for ruining my/our life. That's how he sees it.

 

In his email to you he said he wants nothing to do with you or the baby and wants you both dead. But you're horrible for wanting it to go to a loving home? He makes no sense to me. It sounds like he does not want to be a part of the baby's life so I am confused as to why he won't let it be adopted. What's his reasoning with that?

 

Talk to your lawyer about the letter and what you can do. This guy has gotten away with too much. Do you still think he didn't rape you? Honestly he sounds like such a sick person it is becoming more likely. I'm wondering if his fluctuation between nice and nasty was because he was trying to cover up what happened that night but his real nature kept shining through.

[stillafool]

It would be a lot less stressful for you if you just stop looking at their FB. That is doing you no good. You know they are together having their baby and you have your bf there with you. Couples will travel across the world to adopt a healthy baby.

[doyathinkso]

People from Europe, the USA and Canada routinely go to China to adopt.

[dreamingoftigers]

So why aren't these "good, stable, decent, loving couples" adopting from the hundreds of thousands of children already in the system?

 

People from Europe, the USA and Canada routinely go to China to adopt.

It's less often now because China has tightened their adoption regulations. Girls are in demand and China as a whole has become much wealthier so many families want the "nuclear family" experience.

[stillafool]

OP, why do you care what the babies father is saying about you or that the other girl is "winning". You don't want him anyway, right? Also why haven't you blocked him on FB. There is nothing he needs to know since he doesn't want you or the baby. You don't have to keep him updated on anything. Get an attorney to handle any business you may have with him, whether it is child support or adoption proceedings. There's no reason at all to communicate. You know he loves her and their baby and not you and yours so why do you care anything about him at all? Also it isn't fair to your bf. Block him on everything. TBH, you don't need a man in your life right now. Your focus should be on the baby and if you are going to keep it. If so, you are going to be a single mom and won't have time for a man. If you are giving it up for adoption, your focus should be on school and building a life for yourself. Leave men alone for a while.

[anika99]

It doesn't matter who wrote that hideous email to you. If it was the other girl, then obviously she is threatened and jealous of you in some way. If it was written by him then he is a vile disgusting ugly human being and no woman who is with him can be called the winner. Anyone stuck with that creep is the loser. The funniest thing about that email is that everything he accused you of doing he did worse. He also got drunk and screwed a stranger. He also didn't use a condom and he made that stupid choice knowing you were too drunk to object. He made that choice when he already knew that he already gotten this other supposedly perfect girl pregnant. Everything he said in that email makes him worse than you. And you know what? Even if you got so drunk that you screwed every guy at that party (I know you didn't) it would still be disgusting and wrong of him to say those horrible things to you. What kind of human being talks to another human being like that? He is just vile and ugly.

 

Are you in Canada? You have said several things in this thread that makes me think you are Canadian. I'm a Canadian and I've never heard of an anti- adoption province. I believe that every province allows for a period of time where the birth mom can change her mind but I don't believe there is any province that tries to prevent an adoption. Where are you getting your information. Call an adoption agency and make sure are being informed by people who know exactly what they are talking about and how this works. Your knowledge on this matter sounds like a lot heresay and assumptions.

 

Whatever you decide to do remember that this will all pass. I had two babies by the time I was 21. Had my first when I was sixteen. I made a lot of poor decisions and there were a lot of hard times but I got through it and so will you. Get the toxic people out of your life if you can. Tell your mother you love her but you need support and positivity right now and if she's got something to say that isn't positive or supportive then she should keep it to herself.

 

There is nothing written in stone about how much weight you should gain. It is different for every woman. I gained 25 pounds with my first and 40 pounds with my second. Both times I was carrying lots of water weight and so the pounds quickly disappeared. I wore my prepregnancy clothes when I left the hospital after giving birth to my first and within a month of giving birth to my second I got no stretch marks with either child because I was young and lucky to have so much elasticity in my skin that it could handle being stretched without scarring. Interestingly enough in my thirties I had a small weight gain of about 15 pounds and because I was older and my skin wasn't as supple as it used to be that little bit of extra weight caused some small stretch marks around my hip area.

 

Stay strong and healthy and focused on having a positive pregnancy and birth. If you are considering adoption then get in touch with people who know what they're talking about.

[DrReplyInRhymes]

It doesn't matter who wrote that hideous email to you. If it was the other girl, then obviously she is threatened and jealous of you in some way. If it was written by him then he is a vile disgusting ugly human being and no woman who is with him can be called the winner. Anyone stuck with that creep is the loser. The funniest thing about that email is that everything he accused you of doing he did worse. He also got drunk and screwed a stranger. He also didn't use a condom and he made that stupid choice knowing you were too drunk to object. He made that choice when he already knew that he already gotten this other supposedly perfect girl pregnant. Everything he said in that email makes him worse than you. And you know what? Even if you got so drunk that you screwed every guy at that party (I know you didn't) it would still be disgusting and wrong of him to say those horrible things to you. What kind of human being talks to another human being like that? He is just vile and ugly.

 

Are you in Canada? You have said several things in this thread that makes me think you are Canadian. I'm a Canadian and I've never heard of an anti- adoption province. I believe that every province allows for a period of time where the birth mom can change her mind but I don't believe there is any province that tries to prevent an adoption. Where are you getting your information. Call an adoption agency and make sure are being informed by people who know exactly what they are talking about and how this works. Your knowledge on this matter sounds like a lot heresay and assumptions.

 

Whatever you decide to do remember that this will all pass. I had two babies by the time I was 21. Had my first when I was sixteen. I made a lot of poor decisions and there were a lot of hard times but I got through it and so will you. Get the toxic people out of your life if you can. Tell your mother you love her but you need support and positivity right now and if she's got something to say that isn't positive or supportive then she should keep it to herself.

 

There is nothing written in stone about how much weight you should gain. It is different for every woman. I gained 25 pounds with my first and 40 pounds with my second. Both times I was carrying lots of water weight and so the pounds quickly disappeared. I wore my prepregnancy clothes when I left the hospital after giving birth to my first and within a month of giving birth to my second I got no stretch marks with either child because I was young and lucky to have so much elasticity in my skin that it could handle being stretched without scarring. Interestingly enough in my thirties I had a small weight gain of about 15 pounds and because I was older and my skin wasn't as supple as it used to be that little bit of extra weight caused some small stretch marks around my hip area.

 

Stay strong and healthy and focused on having a positive pregnancy and birth. If you are considering adoption then get in touch with people who know what they're talking about.

 

Uh, it ABSOLUTELY matters who wrote the email....

 

If someone didn't write the email, how can you hold them accountable for writing something THEY DIDN'T WRITE.

 

WTF.

[LD1990]

"My bf was ts me to press every charge in the book as if it's some sort of proof that I don't want to be with him and he really is this horrible. Even though I've told him everything he still wants me to try and have him charged with rape. His his words... He wants the bio-dad to pay for ruining my/our life. That's how he sees it."

 

 

And he is right!

 

No, he's not, he's being a child. His girlfriend cheated, he's not man enough to leave, so he's trying to have her say it was rape as some form of revenge on the guy who nailed his girl.

 

OP, just ride this out and either give the kid up for adoption or keep it. The father isn't going to be around, he's talking **** now but he won't follow through on any of it. Your ex is weak enough that if you want him, you can have him, it'll be weird at first but once you have the baby things should go back to normal.

[kailah]

My boyfriend read the email that was sent and now he thinks I slept with more than one guy and am lying about it. That I figured out which one was the dad and only said it was that guy. He knows that I was talking to two guys, one being the bio dad, early at the party. He wants some sort of proof and I can't magically make that happen.

 

It's too much drama and too much stress. We haven't talked for the last couple days. It seems irreparable and I think I'm going to call it quits, at least for now. If he can't trust a word I say we will never work out.

 

I have been thinking about moving but I'd have to quit my job and then wouldn't have enough hours for maternity leave. My OB is getting concerned with the amount of contractions I have and is considering bed rest if it doesn't settle down. What's best for me and the baby is to shut the world out and deal with it when she gets here.

 

In his email to you he said he wants nothing to do with you or the baby and wants you both dead. But you're horrible for wanting it to go to a loving home? He makes no sense to me. It sounds like he does not want to be a part of the baby's life so I am confused as to why he won't let it be adopted. What's his reasoning with that?

 

Talk to your lawyer about the letter and what you can do. This guy has gotten away with too much. Do you still think he didn't rape you? Honestly he sounds like such a sick person it is becoming more likely. I'm wondering if his fluctuation between nice and nasty was because he was trying to cover up what happened that night but his real nature kept shining through.

 

He doesn't want to allow the adoption to go through because he wants to screw with my life. Child support is based on income. Based on what I think he makes, working part time and being a student, he'd pay a whopping $127.00/month. He has said that it makes him look bad to "give her away". He wants to be able to come in and out of her life as he pleases rather than commit to either being her father 100% or not at all.

 

I don't think it was rape. I willingly had sex with him and got myself there. He didn't drag me away, hold me down and rape me. He may have manipulated the situation to go his way. I know he drank far less than I did, acted more drunk than he was and encouraged me to drink more. He's admitted to some things. But I still let it happen and let it happen again afterwards.

 

It's not that I want him, I don't. It's like when you have an ex and you don't want them but you don't want anyone else to have them either. I don't want him.

 

I'm in SK, for the record.

[road]

My boyfriend read the email that was sent and now he thinks I slept with more than one guy and am lying about it. That I figured out which one was the dad and only said it was that guy. He knows that I was talking to two guys, one being the bio dad, early at the party. He wants some sort of proof and I can't magically make that happen.

 

It's too much drama and too much stress. We haven't talked for the last couple days. It seems irreparable and I think I'm going to call it quits, at least for now. If he can't trust a word I say we will never work out.

 

I have been thinking about moving but I'd have to quit my job and then wouldn't have enough hours for maternity leave. My OB is getting concerned with the amount of contractions I have and is considering bed rest if it doesn't settle down. What's best for me and the baby is to shut the world out and deal with it when she gets here.

 

 

 

He doesn't want to allow the adoption to go through because he wants to screw with my life. Child support is based on income. Based on what I think he makes, working part time and being a student, he'd pay a whopping $127.00/month. He has said that it makes him look bad to "give her away". He wants to be able to come in and out of her life as he pleases rather than commit to either being her father 100% or not at all.

 

I don't think it was rape. I willingly had sex with him and got myself there. He didn't drag me away, hold me down and rape me. He may have manipulated the situation to go his way. I know he drank far less than I did, acted more drunk than he was and encouraged me to drink more. He's admitted to some things. But I still let it happen and let it happen again afterwards.

 

It's not that I want him, I don't. It's like when you have an ex and you don't want them but you don't want anyone else to have them either. I don't want him.

 

I'm in SK, for the record.

 

Getting a woman drunk enough for her have sex is rape in the eyes of the law. When drunk a woman is not in sound mind to make such decisions. She is not in the state of mind to give her consent.

[LD1990]

Getting a woman drunk enough for her have sex is rape in the eyes of the law. When drunk a woman is not in sound mind to make such decisions. She is not in the state of mind to give her consent.

 

He didn't get her drunk. No one held a gun to her head, she chose to drink. And he was drinking as well. Maybe not as much as she did, but no one knows how drunk these two were. All we know is they both drank, so if she can't consent because of that, neither can he. Did they rape each other?

 

They were partying, drinking, and decided to have sex. Let's not make it more than it is. To say he raped her is giving her the benefit of the doubt, while not doing the same for him. Sexism at its finest.

[dpass]

He didn't get her drunk. No one held a gun to her head, she chose to drink. And he was drinking as well. Maybe not as much as she did, but no one knows how drunk these two were. All we know is they both drank, so if she can't consent because of that, neither can he. Did they rape each other?

 

They were partying, drinking, and decided to have sex. Let's not make it more than it is. To say he raped her is giving her the benefit of the doubt, while not doing the same for him. Sexism at its finest.

 

If I am not mistaken, earlier in this thread she said he admitted to getting her drunk and pushing drinks down her while pretending to drink as well. Why did he want to get her drunk? To screw her, because he knew she wouldn't while sober.