Trying to work it out [updated 2017-03-17]

[frus69]

You went to a party, cheated on him by having unprotected sex, and are now pregnant with another man's kid.

 

He's not exactly going to be dancing down the street singing 'zippidy doo dah' now is he?

 

Not sure what people are expecting of him here. It doesn't even sound like you framed this as rape to him.

 

Get the drug test from the doctor and put this to rest once and for all. You really need to know whether you were spiked or not. It changes everything.

 

No it doesn't necessarily changes everything. She doesn't have to be "drugged" to be raped. She could be too intoxicated to consent and if he had sex with her, it's still rape.

 

Listen up guys, just don't take advantage of drunken women. You really don't know if she could consent or not.

 

 

And I'm pretty sure OP did tell her ex the possibility of rape but he still chose to be an ass.

Edited May 29, 2016 by frus69

[italianjob]

No it doesn't necessarily changes everything. She doesn't have to be "drugged" to be raped. She could be too intoxicated to consent and if he had sex with her, it's still rape.

 

Listen up guys, just don't take advantage of drunken women. You really don't know if she could consent or not.

 

 

And I'm pretty sure OP did tell her ex the possibility of rape but he still chose to be an ass.

 

Well, actually you would have a point if she lives in UK or Australia, where to be raped there must be penetration, so the guy could still be sued no matter if he had been drinking or not. In most other places if the guy had been drinking and was intoxicated too and has witnesses that can say so (and from her tale, this could be the case) he couldn't give consent either, so he could claim that OP raped him... The accusations would likely both fall in a court...

 

Anyway she should not only tell him but hold him responsible economically for the child or even for the cost of the eventual abortion.

 

Frankly, from OP's narrative, if she wasn't drugged, this doesn't sound like rape to me, but very careless behavior on her part...

 

That's why I think her BF behaved like an Ass on every other aspect (and she might be better off without him), but can't really be blamed for dumping her.

Edited May 30, 2016 by italianjob

[frus69]

So, a man and a woman are at a party, both drinking and having a good time, they have sex, and suddenly only the guy can be the rapist? If this guy was stone cold sober and either spiking her drinks so that he could take advantage of her, or just handing her drinks all night waiting for her to pass out, then yeah, maybe we can talk about rape. Two drunk people hooking up does not automatically make the guy a rapist.

 

I have been checking this thread here and there waiting for an update on what actually happened. As it stands, this just looks like two drunk people hooking up, and the girl suddenly regrets it in the morning. Regret is not rape.

 

Of course the guy Can Still Get Convicted Of Rape Even If He Was Also Drunk. Heaps of cases like this. If you want, just GOOGLE it

It can be argued that the guy was too drunk to realise the girl doesn't consent. Also need to consider the fact that the girl files rape not the guy because rape is about "hurting people" and the girl get hurt. Doesn't matter the guy is intentional or not. Sure if he is unintentional, he gets more sympathy from the jury but it doesn't mean he didn't commit a crime.

In OP's case, she could argue she was unconsicous but he was conscious (she couldn't remember anything but he could); They were obviously not on the same level of intoxication; Her intoxication was involuntary; And she couldn't give meaningful consent.

[italianjob]

Of course the guy Can Still Get Convicted Of Rape Even If He Was Also Drunk. Heaps of cases like this. If you want, just GOOGLE it

It can be argued that the guy was too drunk to realise the girl doesn't consent. Also need to consider the fact that the girl files rape not the guy because rape is about "hurting people" and the girl get hurt. Doesn't matter the guy is intentional or not. Sure if he is unintentional, he gets more sympathy from the jury but it doesn't mean he didn't commit a crime.

In OP's case, she could argue she was unconsicous but he was conscious (she couldn't remember anything but he could); They were obviously not on the same level of intoxication; Her intoxication was involuntary; And she couldn't give meaningful consent.

 

Again. it depends on the country. Laws on certain arguments are not international.

 

On the case at hand, seen what the witnessess (and these are those who would be called by OP), are saying, there would be no case for rape in most countries, no matter how much some posters here would like it to be called rape...

[Jabron1]

No it doesn't necessarily changes everything. She doesn't have to be "drugged" to be raped. She could be too intoxicated to consent and if he had sex with her, it's still rape.

 

Listen up guys, just don't take advantage of drunken women. You really don't know if she could consent or not.

 

 

And I'm pretty sure OP did tell her ex the possibility of rape but he still chose to be an ass.

 

Yeah, it does. It makes this an incontrovertible case of rape.

 

Personally, I wouldn't tolerate a girlfriend telling me that she went to a party, got drunk, hooked up with another guy, got pregnant, and now 'doesn't remember'.

 

This is because I'm not an idiot. Or a white knight.

 

I would stand by a girlfriend that was drugged through everything 100%. I think most decent men would.

 

Hence, the drug test results are relevant.

 

Of course the guy Can Still Get Convicted Of Rape Even If He Was Also Drunk. Heaps of cases like this. If you want, just GOOGLE it

It can be argued that the guy was too drunk to realise the girl doesn't consent. Also need to consider the fact that the girl files rape not the guy because rape is about "hurting people" and the girl get hurt. Doesn't matter the guy is intentional or not. Sure if he is unintentional, he gets more sympathy from the jury but it doesn't mean he didn't commit a crime.

In OP's case, she could argue she was unconsicous but he was conscious (she couldn't remember anything but he could); They were obviously not on the same level of intoxication; Her intoxication was involuntary; And she couldn't give meaningful consent.

 

Her intoxication was involuntary? Only if she was drugged.

 

You are saying that women can't be held responsible for the amount of alcohol they consume (or anything). I suppose that is the alcohol's fault. Or the guy's fault. Or the club's fault. Or 'societies' fault.

 

Stop being a white knight.

 

I have been checking this thread here and there waiting for an update on what actually happened. As it stands, this just looks like two drunk people hooking up, and the girl suddenly regrets it in the morning. Regret is not rape.

 

Same. I have been getting that feeling since the beginning.

 

Except I have been allowing for the possibility that some kind of drug was used. It really would change everything.

 

As it stands: you have a girl that went to a party on the horny part of her cycle. She starts drinking and flirting with a guy. Her friends see this and are okay with it (these same friends tell her to say nothing to the boyfriend the next day ). She has unprotected sex, but then "can't remember".

 

The main concern wasn't 'I've been raped' (in fact it wasn't a concern at all). It was 'how do I deal with the boyfriend'.

 

Too 'equivocal' for my liking.

[frus69]

Again. it depends on the country. Laws on certain arguments are not international.

 

On the case at hand, seen what the witnessess (and these are those who would be called by OP), are saying, there would be no case for rape in most countries, no matter how much some posters here would like it to be called rape...

 

In which country you can't argue these??

 

Only sad thing is OP may not have enough evidence to prove anything.

 

I definably do not agree on some people saying that it's OP's fault, she should have taken care of herself or it was her choice. He intruded her, it was not just a simple drunken hook up. She was the victim who should not take the blame, period.

[frus69]

 

Her intoxication was involuntary? Only if she was drugged.

 

Says who? Involuntary intoxication may also cover where alcohol has an unexpected result to that anticipated.

 

OP couldn't even remember her first drink, or only could remember one drink, that is def not a normal reaction towards (one) drink.

[italianjob]

In which country you can't argue these??

 

Only sad thing is OP may not have enough evidence to prove anything.

 

I definably do not agree on some people saying that it's OP's fault, she should have taken care of herself or it was her choice. He intruded her, it was not just a simple drunken hook up. She was the victim who should not take the blame, period.

 

Sorry, english is not my first language, I used "arguments" instead of "topics".

 

If two people are both intoxicated and the guilt of one party cannot be demonstrated, unless you're in the UK or Austraulia, IT IS NOT rape.

 

That in this case she was the victim and this was not a simple drunken hook up is YOUR opinion AND NOT A FACT. Sorry if you don't like it.

[frus69]

Sorry, english is not my first language, I used "arguments" instead of "topics".

 

If two people are both intoxicated and the guilt of one party cannot be demonstrated, unless you're in the UK or Austraulia, IT IS NOT rape.

 

That in this case she was the victim and this was not a simple drunken hook up is YOUR opinion AND NOT A FACT. Sorry if you don't like it.

 

Im sorry, you can't simply argue "two people are both intoxicated".In this case clearly they were on different level of intoxication and it makes all the difference in court. Simply conclude this is not a rape because they were both drunk, are just stupid. Like I said before, google it. Doesnt matter in Australia or America. Many cases prove you wrong.

 

Don't want to turn this into a legal battle and clearly some people here lack knowledge and are also judgemental. I wish you the best OP. Take care.

[Jabron1]

Says who? Involuntary intoxication may also cover where alcohol has an unexpected result to that anticipated.

 

OP couldn't even remember her first drink, or only could remember one drink, that is def not a normal reaction towards (one) drink.

 

Which is why I leave open the possibility of a drug.

 

Look, I wasn't born yesterday. There seriously wasn't one time in my life when I was drinking and couldn't remember anything. Not even when I was a kid. Not even when I've been drinking on medication. Not even when I mixed the alcohol with other drugs.

 

It's not the way alcohol works.

 

Get a drug test. It'll clear up the confusion.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Jabron1

[lana-banana]

DO NOT go to a crisis pregnancy center! They are not there to help you make an informed decision. Their only goal is to ensure you don't have an abortion no matter what.They will make abortion sound as dreadful as possible, often lying in the process (more information here: http://www.naralva.org/what-is-choice/cpc/common-lies.shtml) to make you feel guilty, ashamed and afraid. You need guidance from an unbiased professional counselor who doesn't have an agenda. Whether you choose to carry to term or not, this has to br your decision and it should be based on facts rather than fear.

 

OP, it may be too late to test for the presence of drugs in your system. I'm not a lawyer or a counselor and can't tell you if it's wise to pursue legal action under these circumstances. But I do know what several date rape drugs feel like (don't ask) and one of them matches up very similarly to the experience you described. The biggest red flag to me is that you apparently have no nemory of drinking excessively; even when people get blackout drunk, they usually remember the drinks leading up to that point.

 

Moreover, even if no drugs were involved, there is abaolutely such a thing as "meaningful consent". If you're utterly hammered, high on hard drugs or unable to communicate, you can't consent to sex. A decent man will never try to have sex with you when you're obviously drunk, exhausted or otherwise out of it. It's that simple.

[italianjob]

Im sorry, you can't simply argue "two people are both intoxicated".In this case clearly they were on different level of intoxication and it makes all the difference in court. Simply conclude this is not a rape because they were both drunk, are just stupid. Like I said before, google it. Doesnt matter in Australia or America. Many cases prove you wrong.

 

Don't want to turn this into a legal battle and clearly some people here lack knowledge and are also judgemental. I wish you the best OP. Take care.

 

In most parts of the world if both were intoxicated, you would have to find circumstancial proof or hear witnessess. Witnessess here, by what OP says, are saying they were both drinking, having a good time and playing games. That there were "clearly different levels of intoxications" is something you invented.

 

You couldn't even enter court in most countries with this case, unless you have a positive drug test.

 

There is only one person lacking knowledge here and that is you.

[DesertHeat]

Oh sweetheart, my heart is breaking for you.

 

Some of the vitriol is unreal on this thread, but there are also a lot of people that are here to help you. You can block people on here. You just click on their name and go to their profile, you can go to user options and add to ignore list.

 

I'm not going to expound too much on the date rape thing, but I do believe that you were raped, especially since the guy goaded you to get the first drink. I can't say exactly what drug you were given (maybe ex/molly/MDMA), but not all drugs render you incapacitated--molly will have you all flirting and affectionate.

 

Your friends are ****ty for not having your back.

 

As far as the pregnancy, depending on the state, you only have a limited time to terminate, if you choose so. It is a personal decision, and you do what's best for you. I had an abortion in college. I got pregnant by a boyfriend, whom I found out (years later) was actually married and I was his dirty little secret. I thought I would regret it, but I made piece with it and it didn't bother me at all--especially after finding out the true circumstances of my relationship. I have 3 other children now; life goes on.

 

If you do decide to keep the baby, I would suggest circling the wagons. Your XBF already smeared your name, and he seems unstable so I would just go NC and keep the pregnancy to yourself. If you do decide to keep the baby, you don't need him or his people harassing you. If you decide to abort, you don't need a rumor mill disrupting your life.

 

As far as the other guy? He's already shady so I would be very careful with him. If you do decide to keep the baby, get his contact info, but I would be very careful about engaging him about your pregnancy. I'm not sure what the right answer is for your situation, but tread carefully and go with your gut. Men have killed women over unwanted pregnancies, so it's important to protect yourself during this vulnerable time. Let your brother know what he looks like too.

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this, but don't beat yourself up. If you live long enough, you'll make a mistake or two. But the important thing now is to make the right choices today: shore up your boundaries, cut off those in life that aren't for you, and keep an eye on yourself. I've had to learn this the hard way, but such is life. Once you come through this experience, you'll be much stronger for it.

[Chi townD]

Im sorry, you can't simply argue "two people are both intoxicated".In this case clearly they were on different level of intoxication and it makes all the difference in court. Simply conclude this is not a rape because they were both drunk, are just stupid. Like I said before, google it. Doesnt matter in Australia or America. Many cases prove you wrong.

 

Don't want to turn this into a legal battle and clearly some people here lack knowledge and are also judgemental. I wish you the best OP. Take care.

 

 

Now, that's just stupid. If we went by your logic, if a guy is at a bar and has a few drinks, then get behind the wheel and gets pulled over by the cops. He blows over the legal limit (but remember there's different levels of intoxication) But, he remembers getting into his car and driving off. He remembers being behind the wheel. So, since he remembers all of this, then the cops so let him go because he MUST be sober enough to drive if he can recall making the decision to drive.

 

See, why is it that if two people are drinking then the man is AUTOMATICALLY a rapist, because she was not sober to consent? What about a man's ability to consent? If he been drinking, then shouldn't his ability to consent be taken into account? Maybe he isn't in the right frame of mind to consent as well?

[goldsoundz]

Kailah, sorry to hear your update. Seek advice, don't rush the decision. You need to consider whether you can support a baby emotionally, financially, physically, and also whether you have the support behind you to do so. Also the impact on your plans in life. If you do go ahead with the pregnancy then once you have made that decision you will have to give that baby your all, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

Now, that's just stupid. If we went by your logic, if a guy is at a bar and has a few drinks, then get behind the wheel and gets pulled over by the cops. He blows over the legal limit (but remember there's different levels of intoxication) But, he remembers getting into his car and driving off. He remembers being behind the wheel. So, since he remembers all of this, then the cops so let him go because he MUST be sober enough to drive if he can recall making the decision to drive.

 

See, why is it that if two people are drinking then the man is AUTOMATICALLY a rapist, because she was not sober to consent? What about a man's ability to consent? If he been drinking, then shouldn't his ability to consent be taken into account? Maybe he isn't in the right frame of mind to consent as well?

 

What? You're so desperate to ignore the evidence and possibility of rape that you're arguing about something that has no relevance to the situation.

 

This is a scenario where a man who clearly consented had sex with a woman who was possibly unable to consent. Why are you even bickering about his ability to consent, when he remembers everything and states that it was great?

 

There is a lot of evidence that this was rape, which I went over point by point in my previous post. Please do not educate yourself on what constitutes rape on MRA or PUA forums - I say this only because your posts in this thread are so out of touch that that they have a strong whiff of those warped communities.

[goldsoundz]

In most parts of the world if both were intoxicated, you would have to find circumstancial proof or hear witnessess. Witnessess here, by what OP says, are saying they were both drinking, having a good time and playing games. That there were "clearly different levels of intoxications" is something you invented.

 

You couldn't even enter court in most countries with this case, unless you have a positive drug test.

 

There is only one person lacking knowledge here and that is you.

 

Actually, her friend stated that the guy seemed less intoxicated than the OP. It was here that the guy said that he would make sure the OP got home safe - another indication of the different levels of intoxication, as you would not entrust someone just as drunk to do this. The guy remembered the OP's name, details of the night, the sex, whereas the OP has one or two flashbacks, some of which seem to be built around what people have told her. I think it's also safe to assume that the guy was a more experienced drinker than OP, as she has got through college without ever getting drunk enough to experience a hangover before. As such, and coupled with physiological factors, chances are he could handle his alcohol a lot better than her anyway. The different levels of intoxication isn't something anyone invented, it's something that is clear in this thread if you read the posts and think logically.

 

Unfortunately what you are correct in is that a case like this would be unlikely to get to court. Something like 2 cases per 100 rapes make it to trial in America. The vast majority never get reported to the police, and of the ones that do, less than a quarter lead to an arrest. So yes, the case would be unlikely to get to court - but that doesn't really have an impact on the validity of the claim when the system is failing victims so abysmally.

 

Anyway, sorry to derail Kailah. Please keep us updated. Also, if you do decide to keep the baby then look into whether there are single parent support groups in your area. A lot of single parents feel isolated and judged, so it can help to have a network of people in similar situations to talk to and befriend.

Edited June 1, 2016 by goldsoundz

[frus69]

Now, that's just stupid. If we went by your logic, if a guy is at a bar and has a few drinks, then get behind the wheel and gets pulled over by the cops. He blows over the legal limit (but remember there's different levels of intoxication) But, he remembers getting into his car and driving off. He remembers being behind the wheel. So, since he remembers all of this, then the cops so let him go because he MUST be sober enough to drive if he can recall making the decision to drive.

What even is this? Completely irrelevant? ? Being somehow drunk doesn't automatically make you unable to consent?? And what does drunk driving even have to do with nonconsensual sex anyway??

 

See, why is it that if two people are drinking then the man is AUTOMATICALLY a rapist, because she was not sober to consent? What about a man's ability to consent? If he been drinking, then shouldn't his ability to consent be taken into account? Maybe he isn't in the right frame of mind to consent as well?

 

1. Whoever commits the crime, is the rapist even though both are drunk!

2. Can you not differentiate who commits the crime and who is the victim? Or are you saying as long as both are drunk, there is no such thing as consenting anymore? then crime is not crime anymore? Victim is not victim anymore?

3. Ok, how about I put it in the simplest way: whoever hurts the other person, is the rapist!

4. Being drunk, doesn't make you innocent from committing a crime.

5. Being too drunk to tell if she is consenting or not, doesn't mean you can assume she is consenting. You can still commit the crime.

6. Being too drunk to realise you are committing a crime, means you still are committing a crime!

Edited June 1, 2016 by frus69

[frus69]

Who was hurt here? Two people had sex. How was this person hurt? How is it the fault of the other party?

.

 

You cant tell who was hurt here? You think two people had sex they must both consented and enjoyed? Serious?

[lovingbaby]

Should have not done something like that period

[AMJ]

This is not about "two drunk people who had sex". This is about a young woman who has never been drunk before and has only had sex with one guy in her whole life. She remembers having one or two drinks. Then she completely BLACKS OUT FOR AN ENTIRE NIGHT. Wakes up to a guy she does not know, and he remembers every single thing that happened.

 

Just this weekend in LA three women were at a restaurant. They saw a guy put something in his date's drink. They ran into the bathroom to tell her. They called the cops. The cops arrested him and took the drink, tested it, found drugs.

 

This stuff happens every single day, in every single city, big and small. Honestly some of the responders here are so privileged to be so unaware of how common this is.

 

OP again, I hope you're not even reading. Someone awhile back said how selfish it is to turn her crisis into a stupid debate about what is or isn't rape, and I agree.

If people want to continue this debate, post to the water cooler thread. If you want to help her or be constructive, then please do not respond unless you've been in her situation before.

[AMJ]

Enigma, I'm glad I live in a place where the laws has a broader definition of consensual sex than you do.

 

The problem is, while so many people still have a narrow view of consensual sex, things like date rape will continue to happen.

[William]

Got a report of a threadjack and was going to close the thread but noticed the thread starter was forming up a response so will leave it open. Please focus on the thread starter's update and keep things topical. Thanks!

[kailah]

To be perfectly honest, I am ignoring a lot of the debate on what is and what is not rape. It's not what I came here to do.

 

I got the blood pregnancy test and drug test back from my doctor today. The pregnancy test came back positive, like I knew it would. I have another appointment in a couple weeks to see how it's going (unless I change my mind). The drug test came back negative.

 

So that crosses off being slipped something that stays in the system longer. My doctor said I still could have been given a date rape drug, that leaves the body much quicker, but I would not have been able to walk around or talk. Which I was able to do. Another thing he said was that some people use other prescription or over counter drugs that mixed with alcohol can impair judgement further. He also said some people have a genetic marker that makes their body process alcohol differently usually to a much higher effect. But I would have to see a different doctor to discuss that, if I wanted to.

 

After talking to a therapist about everything I know more about that evening than I did when I started the thread. Little bits pop up here and there. I know that I was willingly and knowingly touching him and kissing him. And tiny little snippets of having sex with him.

 

How it sits in my brain to the best of my knowledge, it was consensual. Yes, I was drunk and you shouldn't have sex with a drunk person. But he was drinking too, we played drinking games. Is it wrong to have sex with a drunk person, yeah that's probably something we can agree on. But we both did it, remember he was drunk too, and at the time it seems like I wanted to.

 

If I were sober it never would have happened. I still feel disgusted with myself. Sex and intimacy are important to me, they are not something I throw around which is why I had only been with one person up until then. I value sex as something special and important. But it did happen.

 

The more time goes on, the farther I get from the abortion door. It's not something that I can do. But I still really do not know who this guy is. I know what's on his facebook profile but that's about it. I asked a couple people if they knew him, but all they knew was the program he did in school because they were in the same one. He could be a nice guy, or he could be a total piece of work who I should never be around. I don't know.

 

What I have in my head right now doesn't make him seem like a bad person. But I honestly don't know if it's my actual opinion or if it's skewed by my circumstances.

 

But, everything I remember of him is that he was nice, he was nice the next morning as well, my friends thought he was nice, the couple people I talked to he knew (of) him didn't have something negative to say, he didn't use a condom but thus far I have not come back with any STD's and he also was in the honors program which means he's smart or works hard.

 

The only way I have to contact him is through facebook, and since we aren't even friends who knows if he'd get the message. I have messages that go another folder to die, some take months for me to see. And who knows if he'd even respond. He might think I'm looking for something more, or that I want to hook up again and maybe he doesn't want to.

 

Or if I even tell him.

 

My ex basically stalked me and talked to me when I went out for a snack. Pulled into the same parking lot and got out to talk to me. He kept saying how sorry he was and that he removed the posts. He said he wanted to try and work on us and get things back to where they were. I told him I was pregnant because things just slipped back to feeling so comfortable and natural to how it use to be. I shouldn't have told him, looking back that was really stupid. He said to abort and we could be together again like it never happened. He wanted to hang out with me longer but I couldn't. It was too hard. I wanted so badly to go back to what was familiar and have that support. But he was an ***, but so was I. Later he emailed me and said that if I didn't abort he'd still stand by my side and to tell people it's his instead. Now I feel like I'm waiting for the backlash to come back and bite me in the ***.

[CarrieT]

The only way I have to contact him is through facebook, and since we aren't even friends who knows if he'd get the message. I have messages that go another folder to die, some take months for me to see. And who knows if he'd even respond. He might think I'm looking for something more, or that I want to hook up again and maybe he doesn't want to.

 

Or if I even tell him.

If you decide to carry the child to term:

 

A) He deserves to know he has spawned a child - regardless if you and he have any type of continuing relationship (beyond parenting).

 

B) He should be held accountable, at least for financial reasons!

 

C) Your child may want to have a relationship with his/her father.

 

D) Your child might NEED to have a relationship if only to understand potentially critical medical history.

[kailah]

If you decide to carry the child to term:

 

A) He deserves to know he has spawned a child - regardless if you and he have any type of continuing relationship (beyond parenting).

 

B) He should be held accountable, at least for financial reasons!

 

C) Your child may want to have a relationship with his/her father.

 

D) Your child might NEED to have a relationship if only to understand potentially critical medical history.

 

What do I do if he doesn't get the message or doesn't bother to message back so we can talk? Do I just straight out say "I'm pregnant" or ask to meet and talk? The cautious side of me says don't meet with someone you don't know but I may have to get to know him.

 

How you describe things is kinda what I got from the whole thing. I know I have been in those situations a few times myself. I am sorry for how things worked out for you, but you learned a lesson here; watch the booze. Also, I would be a bit wary of your ex and his promises right now. I think that he loves you, and he probably misses you like crazy, but working things out with you after this, and you having a baby that is the product of you cheating on him, there is a very good chance it will eat away at the guy. He is probably trying to do whatever he can to get back what he lost, but sometimes you just can't go back. This is a lesson I have had to learn myself. Good luck to you, Kailah.

 

Yeah I figured that. A huge part of me just wants to be with him and pretend like it didn't happen and have him there to support the part that is happening. But I feel like, if it got anywhere, he wouldn't be able to deal with it and I'd be hurt again. I know that I hurt him, unintentionally. But he hurt me really badly too, intentionally. He wanted to hurt me. I don't know if I can come back from that.