Guys and OLD

[WhirlwindGuy]

Right, where I live I know of some married couples that are BOTH in non-lucrative, but with moderate pay. One an accountant and anther a school teacher. Nothing extravagant, their combined income does them well.

 

I am starting to think the word "settle" is a bit overused these days. It's as if people are starting to think of each other as commodities than a loving partner. On some dates, I felt like I was being sized-up as opposed to the person actually LIKING me. It's like she was willing to marry me if I met certain material criteria like if I "rented" or "owned" and other such situations.

 

She mentioned her home was getting to much for her work-wise and was looking for someone that could help her around the house.

 

I was thinking? "What do you want free labor and exchange for that, sex and companionship for me as a married couple?"

 

I've known people who demanded to date blondes for example, but wound up with a handsome bald guy. Some threw out their laundry lists and went with the flow and found happiness.

 

 

 

I dated a girl recently who considered my income of 110K a year to just be average, in fact, she would constantly talk to me about finding ways that I can make more...Was kind of stressful. I started to buy into her talk for a while until I cleared my head and realized I didn't need to do anything, I make well above average income for my area, and she needed to settle down.

[normal person]

I was really only trying to say I like his profile. So, at least one person does.

 

This would be nice if you were a woman willing to go out with him, but you're not. That's sort of the point, averageness is not what women are typically looking for, even if other men are fine with it.

 

As far as 'settling', you or I should not care about what other people do. If I marry a high school dropout who makes $10/hr and is cross-eyed and overweight, that's my bees-wax. Saying another person 'settled' and I didn't is just a way of saying "I won at life and you lost."

 

If you're happy, you're happy, if you're not, then break up and find somebody else.

 

I'm a libertarian, I applaud your conviction to do whatever you like so long as it doesn't affect my ability to do whatever I like. But that doesn't mean I won't have opinions about efficacy. If you want to marry that cross-eyed dropout, go ahead. Let me know where you're registered and I'll send a nice gift. But that isn't what's happening in this scenario when someone wants more than what they've got.

 

And if you want more than what you've got and you're not doing anything about it, you're settling. Evoking "winners" and "losers" is a simplification. There's no shame in trying and failing. Bless the guy who's had enough of his situation (whatever it may be), steps out of his comfort zone, fails miserably, and gets right back on the horse even more determined than last time. But I have little sympathy for someone who can't bring themselves to compromise anything about their lives but still for some reason feels entitled to fruits of their nonexistent labor.

 

There are people who try their best to get the things they want or improve their lives, and there are people who can't be bothered to. If you want more, you need to do more. Inevitably these "I need help with women threads" always boil down to the same talking points to me: What have you done to earn their time and attention, and what are you doing to improve things? Have guys been building their careers or have they been slacking off? Are they now going to the gym, or grad school, or building relationships or are they at home playing video games?

 

Everyone wants success, but not everyone is willing to do what's necessary to succeed.

 

Right, where I live I know of some married couples that are BOTH in non-lucrative, but with moderate pay. One an accountant and anther a school teacher. Nothing extravagant, their combined income does them well.

 

If they're happy, good for them. But you can't expect that lifestyle to appeal to everyone. It's anecdotal. And yes, it sounds average, which is fine, but as I've been saying: average is not appealing to most people.

 

 

I am starting to think the word "settle" is a bit overused these days. It's as if people are starting to think of each other as commodities than a loving partner. On some dates, I felt like I was being sized-up as opposed to the person actually LIKING me. It's like she was willing to marry me if I met certain material criteria like if I "rented" or "owned" and other such situations.

 

That's the way things go. A person has to meet certain criteria before you consider them a potential partner. Kind of like how you won't message every women you see on OLD, just the ones you find attractive. Well, this is just one more level of discernment. Someone might not continue to go out with someone unless the other things about them are up to snuff. Everyone's got different criteria. If they're aiming too high, they'll be humbled by the market.

Edited June 23, 2016 by normal person

[JuneJulySeptember]

This would be nice if you were a woman willing to go out with him, but you're not. That's sort of the point, averageness is not what women are typically looking for, even if other men are fine with it.

 

 

 

I'm a libertarian, I applaud your conviction to do whatever you like so long as it doesn't affect my ability to do whatever I like. But that doesn't mean I won't have opinions about efficacy. If you want to marry that cross-eyed dropout, go ahead. Let me know where you're registered and I'll send a nice gift. But that isn't what's happening in this scenario when someone wants more than what they've got.

 

And if you want more than what you've got and you're not doing anything about it, you're settling. Evoking "winners" and "losers" is a simplification. There's no shame in trying and failing. Bless the guy who's had enough of his situation (whatever it may be), steps out of his comfort zone, fails miserably, and gets right back on the horse even more determined than last time. But I have little sympathy for someone who can't bring themselves to compromise anything about their lives but still for some reason feels entitled to fruits of their nonexistent labor.

 

There are people who try their best to get the things they want or improve their lives, and there are people who can't be bothered to. If you want more, you need to do more. Inevitably these "I need help with women threads" always boil down to the same talking points to me: What have you done to earn their time and attention, and what are you doing to improve things? Have guys been building their careers or have they been slacking off? Are they now going to the gym, or grad school, or building relationships or are they at home playing video games?

 

Everyone wants success, but not everyone is willing to do what's necessary to succeed.

 

 

 

If they're happy, good for them. But you can't expect that lifestyle to appeal to everyone. It's anecdotal. And yes, it sounds average, which is fine, but as I've been saying: average is not appealing to most people.

 

 

 

 

That's the way things go. A person has to meet certain criteria before you consider them a potential partner. Kind of like how you won't message every women you see on OLD, just the ones you find attractive. Well, this is just one more level of discernment. Someone might not continue to go out with someone unless the other things about them are up to snuff. Everyone's got different criteria. If they're aiming too high, they'll be humbled by the market.

 

Dude, of all the circular endless arguments.

 

I mean seriously, why are we doing this? It's beyond idiotic.

[GemmaUK]

This would be nice if you were a woman willing to go out with him, but you're not. That's sort of the point, averageness is not what women are typically looking for, even if other men are fine with it.

 

 

 

I'm a libertarian, I applaud your conviction to do whatever you like so long as it doesn't affect my ability to do whatever I like. But that doesn't mean I won't have opinions about efficacy. If you want to marry that cross-eyed dropout, go ahead. Let me know where you're registered and I'll send a nice gift. But that isn't what's happening in this scenario when someone wants more than what they've got.

 

And if you want more than what you've got and you're not doing anything about it, you're settling. Evoking "winners" and "losers" is a simplification. There's no shame in trying and failing. Bless the guy who's had enough of his situation (whatever it may be), steps out of his comfort zone, fails miserably, and gets right back on the horse even more determined than last time. But I have little sympathy for someone who can't bring themselves to compromise anything about their lives but still for some reason feels entitled to fruits of their nonexistent labor.

 

There are people who try their best to get the things they want or improve their lives, and there are people who can't be bothered to. If you want more, you need to do more. Inevitably these "I need help with women threads" always boil down to the same talking points to me: What have you done to earn their time and attention, and what are you doing to improve things? Have guys been building their careers or have they been slacking off? Are they now going to the gym, or grad school, or building relationships or are they at home playing video games?

 

Everyone wants success, but not everyone is willing to do what's necessary to succeed.

 

If they're happy, good for them. But you can't expect that lifestyle to appeal to everyone. It's anecdotal. And yes, it sounds average, which is fine, but as I've been saying: average is not appealing to most people.

 

 

That's the way things go. A person has to meet certain criteria before you consider them a potential partner. Kind of like how you won't message every women you see on OLD, just the ones you find attractive. Well, this is just one more level of discernment. Someone might not continue to go out with someone unless the other things about them are up to snuff. Everyone's got different criteria. If they're aiming too high, they'll be humbled by the market.

 

Amazing post!

I cannot agree with you more!

[angel.eyes]

Perfectly said!

 

This would be nice if you were a woman willing to go out with him, but you're not. That's sort of the point, averageness is not what women are typically looking for, even if other men are fine with it.

 

 

 

I'm a libertarian, I applaud your conviction to do whatever you like so long as it doesn't affect my ability to do whatever I like. But that doesn't mean I won't have opinions about efficacy. If you want to marry that cross-eyed dropout, go ahead. Let me know where you're registered and I'll send a nice gift. But that isn't what's happening in this scenario when someone wants more than what they've got.

 

And if you want more than what you've got and you're not doing anything about it, you're settling. Evoking "winners" and "losers" is a simplification. There's no shame in trying and failing. Bless the guy who's had enough of his situation (whatever it may be), steps out of his comfort zone, fails miserably, and gets right back on the horse even more determined than last time. But I have little sympathy for someone who can't bring themselves to compromise anything about their lives but still for some reason feels entitled to fruits of their nonexistent labor.

 

There are people who try their best to get the things they want or improve their lives, and there are people who can't be bothered to. If you want more, you need to do more. Inevitably these "I need help with women threads" always boil down to the same talking points to me: What have you done to earn their time and attention, and what are you doing to improve things? Have guys been building their careers or have they been slacking off? Are they now going to the gym, or grad school, or building relationships or are they at home playing video games?

 

Everyone wants success, but not everyone is willing to do what's necessary to succeed.

 

 

 

If they're happy, good for them. But you can't expect that lifestyle to appeal to everyone. It's anecdotal. And yes, it sounds average, which is fine, but as I've been saying: average is not appealing to most people.

 

 

 

 

That's the way things go. A person has to meet certain criteria before you consider them a potential partner. Kind of like how you won't message every women you see on OLD, just the ones you find attractive. Well, this is just one more level of discernment. Someone might not continue to go out with someone unless the other things about them are up to snuff. Everyone's got different criteria. If they're aiming too high, they'll be humbled by the market.

[normal person]

Dude, of all the circular endless arguments.

 

I mean seriously, why are we doing this? It's beyond idiotic.

 

...

 

Amazing post!

I cannot agree with you more!

 

Perfectly said!

 

 

Talk about a mixed bag.

[angel.eyes]

Whirlwind,

 

So far the only people commenting on your profile and praising it are men. I'm assuming that's not your target audience. Perhaps cut and paste your profile into a post if you want feedback from your actual target audience.

[normal person]

Whirlwind,

 

So far the only people commenting on your profile and praising it are men. I'm assuming that's not your target audience. Perhaps cut and paste your profile into a post if you want feedback from your actual target audience.

 

Ding ding ding. Winner.

[WhirlwindGuy]

I haven't been following you guys' very verbose discussion about average v. non average, but I get what you are saying. Do something to make myself stand out.

 

 

The problem is, I am what I am. I don't feel like I am amazing looking...If i am being fair, im probably slightly above average in looks...I cant do anything about that. I feel like I do ok with what I have been dealt. I have had women tell me how handsome I am, I don't necessarily buy into it...but different strokes for different folks. How would I make myself be above average than what I am in that regard? I guess I cant. I think im pretty fair with my self assessment, and typically pursue women that are well within my range, in fact some are probably under if I am being honest. This is what my guy friends tell me at least. Out of 5 of the last 6 women I have dated, they have all kind of scoffed and said I could do better. Even ones that I was really attracted to. Problem is, these women very rarely respond. I guess that is just how it is.

 

 

So the profile "bio" I could probably do something to make that stand out more, but I doubt it really matters too much. It gives you something to talk about initially, but I doubt someone who would otherwise have passed me by based on pictures, would say Oh wow...he works in IT...ill totally respond...or he has lived in Europe, let me reconsider...I just don't think that matters too much.

 

 

How I am reaching out...maybe I could make that above average...I try and read thoroughly through profiles of women I find attractive and then I usually send them something short based on a tidbit of info in their profile. I am not sure that matters either. It doesn't seem to really, but maybe I need to be more elaborate and lengthy in my initial emails. I tend to keep them short, since the vast majority don't respond anyway. Maybe that is self defeating?

 

 

Overall ive sent out 68 emails over the past week...crazy I know, but I am trying to experiment a bit and hit all over the board just to see if it matters. Right now, out of 68 emails. Out of those 68, I would say 25 or so have not even been read yet...I have 4 responses, 1 potential date, and 2 that contacted me first. That seems like a poor average...especially since I am not really shooting high at all. Out of 68, ive sent maybe 5 to girls that were most likely out of my league, but they had bio info that sparked my interest so I took a shot.

 

 

 

 

Just interesting I guess. Kind of humbling or disheartening at times...but I suppose that's online dating. Feels like the scales are skewed and women can afford to be extremely choosey in who they talk to. Good for them I suppose. I wish it were the same for the average to above average joe. Im guessing it probably is for those movie star guys...

[cobra148]

I seem to run really hot and cold with OLD sites. Sometimes ill go on and find a couple of connections really quickly, other times it seems like I send out 20 - 30 or more messages and get ignored.

 

 

From a this girls point of view... if we post we do get a lot of replies...quantity vs quality for sure. It is not an easier for us either. We have to weed out the one-liners and (for me) the ones that do not match my likes... Sorting through is a tough but the ones that I have responded to and am called to have not been the right ones for me. So I do try and answer them all either with a "thank you but no interest" or lets meet up.

even the ones who do respond rarely, really, rarely even want to meet so I try and avoid the ones "I feel" are the "usual suspects" more activity is less attractive to me. I met a couple on Match and nothing came of it. Crazy isn't only with the woman.

It gets a bit frustrating since it seems the attention span for most men isn't very long. I am always up for meeting and even those men who do respond once do not respond the 2nd time. They have moved on. So it isn't just the woman. Or we talk for a while and then they disappear. I have met a few people from other sites and it seems that it is the same thing. No leagues...just wanting to meet for conversations and see where it goes. In the last 3 years I have actually only had 4 guys who actually showed up and it just didn't work out. So it is a crap shot and takes patience, so I have been told. I am no longer on any site I have given up. I used to be so easy to find what a person wanted and meet and have fun. This generation I think is just a mess and the older men have bought into the young 20 mentality that it s easy to get some. But in reality us older woman want a bit more than what is even out there. hope this helps

[angel.eyes]

Whirlwind,

 

Are you planning to post your profile for feedback? This seems to be morphing into a gripe fest about how easy women have it, even though they struggle just as much to find a good guy. If it's a gripe thread, I'm out. Best of luck!

[WhirlwindGuy]

Whirlwind,

 

So far the only people commenting on your profile and praising it are men. I'm assuming that's not your target audience. Perhaps cut and paste your profile into a post if you want feedback from your actual target audience.

 

I cant get the pictures in this way....but here is the text:

 

I am a fairly humble guy and I feel like I am pretty simple when it comes to what makes me happy. Simply hanging out together, telling stories and laughing is about as close to perfect as it gets for me. I would love to find someone i can make a connection with at that level. Easy right? I really enjoy being near the water, fishing, lounging on the beach, or just hanging out on the dock. If i could move to the Caribbean I would! Looking for that work from home job that allows me to do that some day!I am looking for a down to earth girl that I can be myself with. Someone who enjoys hanging out in the backyard and drinking lone star, as much as getting dressed up and trying new restaurants around town.

Im

an affectionate guy, and would prefer to find a match who was the same. If that's you, lets chat!

 

 

Sports & Exercise

 

Baseball, Basketball

Exercise 3-4 times per week

 

Sign

 

Capricorn

 

Favorite Hot Spots

I enjoy all sorts of places; Burelsons, 1919, Friendly Spot to name a few. Bonus points if you like to hit up the dive bars. I am actively pursuing finding a place to call home in one of San Antonio's newly revitalized areas!

College

 

The University of Texas at San Antonio, San Antonio, TX

 

Favorite Things

I enjoy most thing on the water. Fishing, relaxing at the beach, snorkeling, rivers and lakes. I don't watch a lot of TV, when i do, its usually playing catch up on Netflix.

For Fun

In my free time I enjoy catching up on my reading, sending time with friends, learning new things about movie production. If i feel like getting out, Ill find a random cultural event around town to attend.

Last Read

I am currently reading the Edge of Eternity by Ken Follett

 

 

 

 

 

 

Height:6' 2

Body type:About Average

Eyes:Hazel

Hair:Bald

Lifestyle

 

Smoke:No Way

Drink:Social Drinker

Occupation:Technical / Science / Computers / Engineering

 

Income:$100,001 to $150,000

Relationship: Divorced

Have kids:Yes, and they live away from home

Want kids:Probably not

 

 

Background

 

Ethnicity:White / Caucasian

Faith:Christian

Languages:English

Education:Graduate degree

[JuneJulySeptember]

Eh. Never mind... Decided not to post that one.

Edited June 23, 2016 by JuneJulySeptember

[JuneJulySeptember]

There's a few typos under your 'Favorite Things' and 'For Fun'. Read them over again and you'll catch them.

 

The question is ... if a woman rejected you on the basis of those typos, would you still want her?

[WhirlwindGuy]

Whirlwind,

 

Are you planning to post your profile for feedback? This seems to be morphing into a gripe fest about how easy women have it, even though they struggle just as much to find a good guy. If it's a gripe thread, I'm out. Best of luck!

 

I'm only going by what other women have told me...I am friends with someone I dated and she showed me her 100s of matches on Tinder. She is not a knock out either, just an average girl.

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

Overall ive sent out 68 emails over the past week...crazy I know, but I am trying to experiment a bit and hit all over the board just to see if it matters. Right now, out of 68 emails. Out of those 68, I would say 25 or so have not even been read yet...I have 4 responses, 1 potential date, and 2 that contacted me first. That seems like a poor average...especially since I am not really shooting high at all. Out of 68, ive sent maybe 5 to girls that were most likely out of my league, but they had bio info that sparked my interest so I took a shot.

 

 

Give it some time.

 

Some of the women are busy with school and work and will respond later. Others are dating other guys they are considering and may come back to you later. The others? Screw it.

 

Don't take it personally.

 

It sounds funny to say it to you, because when I started OLD, I did the same thing. I took it totally personally.

 

OLD actually did a really good thing for me. It taught me to see life as less of a competition.

[scorpiogirl]

You're entitled to your opinion. I'm happy with what I got going on career-wise.

 

Exactly! You're happy with what you have going on an it's none of my concern. Isn't it annoying when people nitpick at you?

 

What I wrote in my post is exactly what you wrote about someone else's choices. Funny huh?

[mizunomead]

it definitely runs hot and cold...probably mostly cold. the simple fact of the matter is that meeting people is hard. meeting someone where there is high mutual interest is even harder. like me you are divorced also. and we are in the same age range so i feel ya. the one positive about being divorced is that it gives us a different perspective on evaluating people. we know at least a bit about what works for us and what doesnt work for us.

the majority of women that are say average in looks and above get alot of messages. in my discussions with alot of the women i have met, looks play a huge part obviously. but the message you send played at least a equal if not a bigger part.

send a thoughtful message, put effort into it. incorporate things from her profile in the message. and give her a reason to message back. ask at least one or two questions in there. give her something to reply to. the consensus from the women i have met was that yes they got alot of messages, but most of them were one liner junk messages.

the other advice i would give is to broaden your horizons. i think you were looking at 28-40 as a 38yr old. maybe open that up to say 45 or so on the upper end. there are some amazing, sexy single women in there 40s out there.

on the looks thing, my rule of thumb is that if i think that she might be cute i will roll the dice on a meet. its just a meet and you never know until you meet in person.

i have had what i would consider reasonable success online and im currently dating someone i met online. and i consider myself average in the looks department. but i play to my strengths in the photos. i have nice blue eyes, so i wear clothes that highlight that. i am tall with wide shoulders and chest. some women love this so i play that up in the pics. i highlight knowing some women like that, and the women that are looking for a different body type wont waste my time or me theirs.

last, dont take any of it too seriously. someone will come along at some point.

[TooLegitToQuit]

I dunno, I can see both sides of this.

 

I was going to say that it reads like white noise, basically like every other profile out there. (And unless you're really thinking of it, take the part of relocatinf to the Carribean out--you may be written off by women who intend to stay put.)

 

Then again though, is it truly about being The Most Interesting Man In The World? At the end of the day, I'd think it is way too easy for someone on an OLD site to forget that they don't really want to date the Dos Equis guy. Instead they are just looking for a normal person who has a good heart and their life reasonably together, and whom they connect with and are reasonably attracted to.

 

And yeah, many a *woman's* profile reads like the OP's and she still gets lots of attention anyway.

 

I think much of it comes down to your photos, but I don't think you should get professional photos OP, it sort of comes across as trying too hard. I think much of it comes down to first emails too. Any samples OP?

 

ETA: AND where are you losing them so to speak. Are they reading your emails but not checking out your profile? Or are they checking out your profile but not responding back?

Edited June 25, 2016 by TooLegitToQuit

[LookAtThisPOst]

send a thoughtful message, put effort into it. incorporate things from her profile in the message. and give her a reason to message back.

 

*Meh* Been there, done that, bought the T-Shirt. At the very MOST I would get a response saying how much work I put into the email but get the ol', "I'm sorry, but I don't think we'd make a good match. Good luck in your search."

 

When I would ask why, they simply said, "I just wasn't attracted", referring to the looks.

 

I had one that actually responded with, "Though, I don't respond to most men these days because of how nasty they get if I turn them down...I decided to send you response seeing how intelligent you sounded in your email to me...."

 

I guess she was confident I wouldn't get mouthy with her. lol

 

Again, same reason, wasn't attracted.

 

Then again though, is it truly about being The Most Interesting Man In The World? At the end of the day, I'd think it is way too easy for someone on an OLD site to forget that they don't really want to date the Dos Equis guy. Instead they are just looking for a normal person who has a good heart and their life reasonably together, and whom they connect with and are reasonably attracted to.

 

All, very good points, however, as some LS people here will tell you "reasonable" is "boring" or "normal" is "boring"

 

You see there is common denominator there as this attitude probably represents a lot of the actively dating and single popultion. They BORE easily and in itself makes THEM boring.

 

This is why spouses leaves spouses or file for divorce so easily. They get "bored" of their spouse there is no "excitement" in their lives anymore.

 

But you see, people aren't that forward thinking when it comes to the long term and thus set themselves up for failure.

Edited June 25, 2016 by LookAtThisPOst

[TooLegitToQuit]

Well, that sucks, I am sorry to hear this LATP.

 

I understand this may not make you feel any better, but there are plenty of WOMEN out there who try to do everything RE online dating "correctly" and they still hardly have any luck, because guys are not attracted to their pictures.

 

I do get the impression from your threads and posts is that OLD is a rough ride for you. Thing is, looks are not by any means the only thing that factors into a woman's attraction towards us. What I'd advise is getting feedback from someone whom you aren't friends with (so they'd be comfortable being brutally honest w you). I don't have PM privileges yet, otherwise I could advise.

Edited June 25, 2016 by TooLegitToQuit

[WhirlwindGuy]

Well I don't mean this to sound like a brag, but it seems the dominos are starting to fall a bit. Perhaps it just takes time. Some that read the email, looked at my profile, and never responded are now responding. Some respond and we get a good conversation going, then they disappear for a day or two...

 

 

Out of the emails I have sent, I have around 6 now that I am actively talking with and it is getting a little hectic.

I assumed when they read, looked and never said anything, they were not interested. Apparently that is not always the case.