Grapesofwrath Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Many of you know me here and my story, so you will know that when I say this is about a friend, it's really about a friend. I believe I have referenced her in past posts. She knows about my A with xMM and even met xMM several times. Here is her story: She is divorcing now after 1.5 years of trying R with her WH. He had an A with another mom at school. My friend, Kim, lives on her own and is dating. About a year ago, she started an A with another Dad at the school, Matt. He is married and still living with his wife, Sarah, who had an A herself. Sarah and her AP had agreed to leave their respective spouses to be together. Sarah went home to tell Matt of her plan, but her AP changed his mind and left her high and dry. Sarah & Matt are still married and live together. To hear Matt tell it, it is a loveless and sexless marriage. (I have been to their house in the past because our kids are friends, and they cannot be sleeping in separate bedrooms because the place is too small.) Matt tells Kim that his marriage is dead, but he cannot leave because of the kids and financial reasons. (Sarah doesn't work, never has, and he can't afford to pay her spousal support.) There are no plans to separate or divorce. Kim says they "never do anything" together, but I have seen them together at school events and in FB photos, etc., so I know that's not true. Kim said she "fell in love" with Matt, and eventually ended it when she got sick of his cowardly weakness in not dealing with his broken marriage, but now they are back together. They have sex, text a lot, and spend time together a couple days a week. Kim says that Sarah is seeing someone else also, and that Sarah has "figured out" about her and Matt. (Of course, this is all information she gets from Matt.) She has justified and rationalized the whole thing and convinced herself that her feelings have changed for Matt and it's really all just for fun. I'm not sure how to be her friend through this. nI don't want to be a hypocrite, but I also think she's making a huge mistake that will cause her great pain later. I have told her that I think an A is a bad idea and why. I feel like it's just a matter of time until things go south, as they usually do. Have any of you been in this situation? How did you work with your friend on this issue? Link to post Share on other sites
Lobe Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 I had husband being gaslighted and tortured in one ear, wifey asking me to be excited about her new lover and keep her secrets in the other ear. "I didn't ask you to put me up on a pedestal, I'm only human," wifey said when I suggested that if she was unhappy in her marriage she should come clean. Barf. Maybe it makes me a bad friend, but I ratted out wifey and ditched her not because I felt morally superior but because I saw firsthand what it was doing to her husband. It wasn't fair to him and she was quite frankly acting like an immature 12-year old. Her complete lack of discretion and remorse were off-putting, and I lost all respect for her when she decided to turn me into a liar. To this day I am civil but keep her at a distance. I don't want to know what's going on in other people's bedrooms. If you're having an affair, keep that sh*t to yourself. Don't expect me to put myself in the middle and to lie on your behalf. Selfish knows know limits when there's an affair going on, and I see no problem removing yourself from the situation if it makes it possible for you to not have to lie (by omission or otherwise) because you know too much. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
RecentChange Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Yeah I don't think friends should have to shoulder all of our dirty laundry. If I was her friend I would probably say it all sounds like a disaster and drama waiting to happen, and extracting herself would be the wisest thing to do - and that she should find a counselor. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
norudder Posted June 20, 2016 Share Posted June 20, 2016 Hopefully she'll come around and figure out how much trouble it is and put an end to it. The limited friends I confided in about my affair didnt pass judgement on me but expressed care and concern for my well being and tried pointing out how the situation I was in wasnt good. They listened but didnt get caught up in the drama, and only listened when I brought it up- they didnt make inquiries, kept an ambivalent attitude to keep a safe distance from it themselves, and recommended moving on/counseling. I was grateful to be able to trust them with that, but it was probably too much for them sometimes and where you have so many overlapping social circles, I agree with the other poster its not fair to you to be a position to possibly have to lie. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 Thanks, Rudder. She was there for me during my A and especially supportive when I was working to extract myself from it. She understood my stumbles and encouraged me to move forward. That's partly why I don't want to be a hypocrite here. I see disaster written all over this, however, in large part because of all the reading I have done here. I now recognize the features of this A as being some of the classic hallmarks. I think her self-esteem has been diminished to the point of accepting this kind of treatment from a MM, as well as continuing to have casual sex with partners she meets through Tinder, etc. Part of the irony here is that I think her husband's A is a big part of what threw her self-esteem down the toilet. (She also gets the special privilege of paying him spousal support because she has always been a hard worker and earns more than him.) I am not particularly close with Sarah or Matt, so I don't think I'll be in a position of having to lie, exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
Lady Hamilton Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Not your pigeons, not your statues. Let them crap all over whatever they want. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Lobe Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 I am not particularly close with Sarah or Matt, so I don't think I'll be in a position of having to lie, exactly. That makes a difference. Hopefully you can talk some sense into her without getting too stuck in the middle. Link to post Share on other sites
Bufo Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) Geez Grapes. You must have a scorecard to keep all of this straight. I wonder if she is the type who has to learn things the hard way. She stood by you during your time of need but doesn't seem to comprehend that her A is a no good future mess. She should believe it when you tell her things if for no other reason than you have BTDT. Somehow I'm thinking of an aphorism about leading a horse to water... Advice from someone who learned not to get emotionally involved in clients' divorces. Give her your advice. Tell her what you think will happen if she follows your advice and if she doesn't follow your advice. Then step back until she approaches you for a second helping of advice. You may wish to consider telling her about this site. If she won't listen to you she might consider the experiences of way too many posters here. And keep the first aid kit close by to treat the wounds you'll get from beating your head against the wall! BTW I believe this post was for a friend. If it was about you, I would somehow find you and slap you along side the head. I don't think you'll find yourself in a new A! Edited June 21, 2016 by Bufo Added text 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted June 21, 2016 Author Share Posted June 21, 2016 Yes, Bufo. This one has Peyton Place written all over it. (Frankly, this school seems rife with these things. I have another friend whose son went to this school who is now divorced when her xH had an A with another mom from school.) I think, right now, she is in the fog. As you say, BTDT. Recognize the signs. I feel for him, too. He is in a very tough position. This is an expensive city. you wouild have to be a millionaire to be able to support two households. I'm sure he doesn't want to put his children into a difficult living situation. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Really struggling here. This A is continuing. Kim is deep in the fog and convinced herself that this relationship is what she wants and needs. (Seeing him once every couple weeks, during the day for trysts, and getting frequent daily texts.) She insists that she has asked him to keep their relationship secret, which is why he hasn't told his wife. This weekend, Matt is throwing a 50th birthday party for Sarah. Kim is upset because she feels left out and is being forced to face the fact that their marriage is not ending any time soon, or ever. She looks to me for help or support, and frankly I just don't know what to say. When I am honest with myself, I have to wonder if I am reassigning my anger and disappointment about xMM to Matt, and projecting my own feelings on to Kim. I have told her a couple times that I think this A is an awful idea. She just doesn't want to hear it. When I ask her to look at his behavior and think about whether she respects him for having an A, she says I am being judgmental and blaming him for this impossible situation he is in. (This after her own WH cheated on her.) Is the fog really this thick? Link to post Share on other sites
minimariah Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Is the fog really this thick? hmmm... what's up with Kim & her xH? is he now with his AP? what is her relationship like with the xH? could be that Kim is trying to RElive that situation but this time... in a role she perceives as WINNING. not sure if i'm making sense: if Kim's xH is happily dating his AP - maybe she's trying to put herself in the position of an AP who wil also "win" a MM. it can be her way of getting over the pain caused by the divorce. i've had a friendship like this - it can be very exhausting. some people just don't want to hear how it REALLY is and you can do two things - you can either let it all go, keep quiet and offer comfort... shoulder to cry on OR you can back off a little until she starts seeing reality. it can be very frustrating to offer advice over and over again only to have someone else completely ignore it and repeat the same mistakes... i know it's painful to see your friend suffer and it's logical that you want to help... but you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author Grapesofwrath Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 Mini: I chose to distance myself. It was all too much drama and I was tired of being lied to. Kim would say they were just friends, but later admit they were sleeping together. Then she'd say they are deeply in love, but just friends, and she's dating others. I couldn't believe much of what she said about it. She just moved into an apartment 2 blocks from Matt's house and insists she had no idea where he lives and was *shocked* to discover they were neighbors. I think Kim's XH and his new Gf are doing well, far as I can tell. So maybe you're right that she wants to feel like she's "winning" too. Only she's not. Matt & Sarah are still together. She was caught in another affair, but yet they remain together. Torturing each other, and their kids. Link to post Share on other sites
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