If it takes a village.....

[RecentChange]

If someone broke into your home, took things that belonged you and tracked mud and dog poop all over your home, would you dismiss the intruder and hold your husband 100% accountable because he didn't keep the door locked??

 

This metaphor makes the wandering spouse a VICTIM. No no no. They did not make an innocent mistake like not locking the door - for the big bad thief to come in and ruin everything for the couple. NOPE.

 

Perhaps a better metaphore would be that you have this dog. This dog likes to run away. Your fence isn't great - and he gets out and runs off. The dog finds someone out walking and joins them - and follows them home. The person might even say "shoo! go home dog!" but no, the dog still follows and invites themselves in.

 

The right thing to do would be to take the dog, and look for its owners. But sometimes people end up liking that dog, the dog is sweet to them, and acts like it doesn't want to leave. They don't know who it belongs to (but surely it belonged to someone) and they keep the dog.

 

Is it the right thing to do? To keep that dog that belonged to someone else? No, someone is heart broken that they lost their dog. Its not their dog, they should return it.

 

But on the other hand, the dog ran away. The fence had a hole. The person that kept the dog didn't break into your house, ransack it, and then steal the dog. They kept a dog that came to them.

[OneLov]

This metaphor makes the wandering spouse a VICTIM. No no no. They did not make an innocent mistake like not locking the door - for the big bad thief to come in and ruin everything for the couple. NOPE.

 

Perhaps a better metaphore would be that you have this dog. This dog likes to run away. Your fence isn't great - and he gets out and runs off. The dog finds someone out walking and joins them - and follows them home. The person might even say "shoo! go home dog!" but no, the dog still follows and invites themselves in.

 

The right thing to do would be to take the dog, and look for its owners. But sometimes people end up liking that dog, the dog is sweet to them, and acts like it doesn't want to leave. They don't know who it belongs to (but surely it belonged to someone) and they keep the dog.

 

Is it the right thing to do? To keep that dog that belonged to someone else? No, someone is heart broken that they lost their dog. Its not their dog, they should return it.

 

But on the other hand, the dog ran away. The fence had a hole. The person that kept the dog didn't break into your house, ransack it, and then steal the dog. They kept a dog that came to them.

 

I'd like to take this a step further: Let's assume the dog wasn't chattel and had the ability to make reasonable and rational choices. It vowed to stay in the yard, no matter how secure or shoddy the fence was. But when there was a hole, it willfully used poor judgment and made a choice to leave. Also, it knew how to get home but consented to staying.

 

Both the dog and the person are wrong. If the dog was just personal property driven by instinct and lacked the power to make reasonable and rational decisions, I'd say only the person would be wrong. Here, both are wrong.

Edited June 22, 2016 by OneLov

[central]

Personally, I won't participate in helping a cheater cheat. Their cheating can cause real harm to their spouse, even if they supposedly and hypothetically "deserve" it. My philosophy is to do no harm to anyone, even second-hand, if I can make a choice that avoids it and does not create even greater harm for myself by doing so.

 

 

On the other hand, I can intellectually understand that if someone wants to cheat for whatever reason, they almost certainly can find someone who will participate. Unless everyone has my attitude of not causing even secondary harm, it IS going to happen. We all know that my attitude isn't universally shared - humans are self-serving in most cases, and ethics are a thin veneer for most. Further, whoever does participate made no vows and has no explicit responsibility to the BS - that is entirely on the WS. The WS is an adult who knows the potential consequences, and chooses their own gratification over the potential harm to their partner.

[JLeaks3]

Let me ask you this - what was he getting from his affair partner, that he was not getting from your relationship? Have you two talked about that?

 

Yes. We've talked extensively about it. Quite literally, he was getting ego strokes from someone that wasn't me. Nothing special. She didn't offer him anything more or even better than what I already offered him at home. I appreciate him every day. I call him handsome and sexy every day. We kiss and hug and caress each other on the couch, at home, in the car, we constantly touch. I tell him he is a good father and amazing husband. I tell him I feel so fortunate to have someone like him love me and he makes me feel like the luckiest woman in the world. I did these things constantly and consistently, even leading up to his EA. He chalked it up to, "You have to say that because you're my wife." Even though I said it because I believe it.

 

You know what? He still "needed" his value as a man validated by someone "other" than me. He is still a middle-aged 40 something wondering how anyone could actually find him attractive. How could I ever possibly provide something for him that I can't be? I can't be "other". And herein lies my insecurity. I am a good wife. He is a good husband. I didn't neglect him. He didn't neglect me. She was just simply, not me. And it made him feel good that someone other than his wife saw him as a catch. How do I combat that?

 

They met chaperoning a field trip. They struck up a friendship and it was initially for the purpose of play dates and here all of a sudden there is this other woman complimenting him about our kids and how great of a dad you are, blah blah blah. You want to get to my husband? You compliment his kids and how he must be super dad. How lucky is your family to have you, blah blah blah. Everything I've told him since we've been together. Yet somehow, he HEARD it loud and clear from her and not me.

 

You ever have that with your spouse? Like you tell him something and they ignore it, then when they hear someone else say it they act like it's some revolutionary thing and are all, "Wow!" and you're just, "I've been saying this to you since the beginning of time!"

 

So yeah, about the whole my husband made his choices and all that. I know. And he knows. But I am not so willing to excuse OW/OM either because they made their choices too and the philosophy of well they didn't make their vows to you, is nothing but excuses and enabling for destructive behavior. Cheaters have to subscribe to it I guess because the alternative of, "I'm a crappy person who did a crappy thing!" is much harder to live with and deal with. But pardon me if I'm not so willing to give people who intentionally do hurtful things a free pass just because they don't have some explicit agreement or contract with me.

[OneLov]

OP,

 

I don't think anyone is suggesting you shouldn't be angry or feel the OW doesn't share any responsibility for her role in the affair. I think most are trying to empathize with you and are saying that you should feel angry. But they're also cautioning you to not let your anger get misplaced.

 

 

And please don't blame yourself.

[RecentChange]

Yes. We've talked extensively about it. Quite literally, he was getting ego strokes from someone that wasn't me. Nothing special. She didn't offer him anything more or even better than what I already offered him at home.

 

So, he was willing to hurt you, to risk your marriage - because he needs ego strokes from someone not you. Made all of these risk, and hurt you over nothing special.

 

Honestly I think that would hurt more than cheating due to bigger reasons. To choose to cheat over something "little" and something, that you were already providing - yet YOU can never provide enough of because you aren't someone else.... how will this be prevented in the future?

 

 

You ever have that with your spouse? Like you tell him something and they ignore it, then when they hear someone else say it they act like it's some revolutionary thing and are all, "Wow!" and you're just, "I've been saying this to you since the beginning of time!"

 

Yes and no. In my case, the validations had been neglected (both times / him + mine) - so it was easier to "fix", the validations came back, as did all of those wonderful emotions that are tied to them. I once again got those from my husband - if he has been providing them all along, and I just eventually didn't care, and looked for that validation else where .... well, that does sound like a pickle.

 

So yeah, about the whole my husband made his choices and all that. I know. And he knows. But I am not so willing to excuse OW/OM either because they made their choices too and the philosophy of well they didn't make their vows to you, is nothing but excuses and enabling for destructive behavior. Cheaters have to subscribe to it I guess because the alternative of, "I'm a crappy person who did a crappy thing!" is much harder to live with and deal with. But pardon me if I'm not so willing to give people who intentionally do hurtful things a free pass just because they don't have some explicit agreement or contract with me.

 

Oh, I don't think those who participate in affairs are doing no wrong, or deserve free passes. I'll be the first to say, its crappy behavior, its not right, its not justified - but its not up to the world to not "enable" your husband to cheat. He has to choose to not cheat.

 

Its like saying your husband likes cocaine, and knows he shouldn't do it. But he goes over to his friends house and does cocaine with that friend. Its wrong, they shouldn't be doing it, its destructive - but do you really blame the friend for the husband's behavior? Or do you get angry with your husband for having that friend, and going over there in the first place? You can hate that friend, but they didn't cause your husbands behavior.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I am a good wife. He is a good husband. I didn't neglect him. He didn't neglect me. She was just simply, not me. And it made him feel good that someone other than his wife saw him as a catch.

 

I find this quote from Esther Perel helpful:

 

"When we seek the gaze of another, it isn't always our partner that we are turning away from, but the person that we have ourselves become. And it isn't so much that we're looking for another person, as much as we are looking for another self."

 

 

But pardon me if I'm not so willing to give people who intentionally do hurtful things a free pass just because they don't have some explicit agreement or contract with me.

I hold the OM culpable for his involvement in the affair. A grown adult does not get a free pass for his/her decision that destroys at least one marriage.

 

It's not so much the "it takes a village" analogy. For me, it's that we don't dream of growing into adulthood and falling in love... with a married person. We don't wish for our daughters to fall in love with a man that will cheat on her. We don't ask our sons "when are you going to meet a nice married girl?" Who ever said "when I grow up I want to be cheat on my spouse."

 

It is universally known in our culture that adultery is taboo and causes an enormous amount of pain and destruction. Affairs create so much damage that people are sometimes killed as a direct result. And yet, people still enter into these dysfunctional adulterous relationships.

[DrReplyInRhymes]

A question to poke at some of the logic I see here,

What if you were mislead completely, lies filling your ear?

What if you met a woman who you thought was amazing and fun,

Only to discover she hid her ring all along, after which you called it done?

 

What if a woman set you up to be a fall guy for the affair she REALLY had?

What if she's sleeping around at work, and used YOU to keep on doing bad?

When brought to light and falsely 'exposed' after the blame is placed upon you,

Would anger be appropriate? Wouldn't you want to clear the air too?

[wmacbride]

This metaphor makes the wandering spouse a VICTIM. No no no. They did not make an innocent mistake like not locking the door - for the big bad thief to come in and ruin everything for the couple. NOPE.

 

Perhaps a better metaphore would be that you have this dog. This dog likes to run away. Your fence isn't great - and he gets out and runs off. The dog finds someone out walking and joins them - and follows them home. The person might even say "shoo! go home dog!" but no, the dog still follows and invites themselves in.

 

The right thing to do would be to take the dog, and look for its owners. But sometimes people end up liking that dog, the dog is sweet to them, and acts like it doesn't want to leave. They don't know who it belongs to (but surely it belonged to someone) and they keep the dog.

 

Is it the right thing to do? To keep that dog that belonged to someone else? No, someone is heart broken that they lost their dog. Its not their dog, they should return it.

 

But on the other hand, the dog ran away. The fence had a hole. The person that kept the dog didn't break into your house, ransack it, and then steal the dog. They kept a dog that came to them.

 

Fair enough, but while it was the dog who followed them home, it was the person who opened the door to let it in. It was not forced. He or she could have simply kept it closed, had they not really wanted to let it in.

[RecentChange]

Right, and when the spouse decided to cheat, it wasn't forced either.

 

When I told my married man - but you are MARRIED, he shrugged his shoulders and continued to court me. I said it was wrong, he made justifications. Yes, I could have told him to get lost and never contact me again (to protect the marriage that he wouldn't) and he could have found another woman to persue.

 

I am not saying that the AP is on some sort of moral high ground, but to think "the village" should stop a man who is looking to cheat - well, obviously that is wishful thinking and not based in reality.