Would YOU consider this cheating? So ....

[Secondrodeo]

New to the site, so hello.

A quick background: my 2nd marriage, his 1st, no kids together. Married 5+ yrs but known each other for 30+.

 

Husband and I are best friends with another couple that moved halfway across the country last year. We keep in touch via occasional calls, FB posts, texts. We all are easygoing with crazy senses of humor. We joke around often about everything and no one takes it seriously and we can be pretty crass.

 

I was talking with the wife of this couple (I'll call her Eve) the other night, just girl talk, catching up, etc. She asked how my husband was and casually mentioned that they'd messaged via FB and he'd asked about her nipples. Now, my husband is a major boob guy and Eve has naturally big boobs. We (me, Eve & her hubby) all know my husband likes boobs, hers included.

 

After I hung up from talking to her , it was just nagging at me that he'd messaged her and mentioned her nipples. So I asked him about it. He adamantly denied flirting or trying to flirt, trying to cheat, asking for pics of anything (boobs/nipples, etc). He said he made some comment about a "mental picture" of her nipples and that was it.

He had deleted the messages so I couldn't confirm if he was being truthful or not. But she still had the entire convo and sent it to me the next day as soon as I asked.

 

Here's how their convo went :

 

Husband : you ever gonna send me any more sexy pics?

 

Eve: I don't ever want to make your wife mad. Otherwise, I don't care.

**(sent pics of herself in bikini on the beach, which were already posted to FB so he'd seen them already)

 

Husband: I wont keep them to keep us out of trouble. I love to look though. You are perfection. We can keep a few little things on the down low.

 

Eve: ummmm...better to keep them & be upfront with her. She won't care about bikini pics.

 

Husband: are u going to tell her? Or just leave it as I saved them? You know I'm in love with 2 women, don't you?

 

Eve: lol...You'll never know.

 

Husband. Ok. For my mental picture, what do your nipples look like?

 

Eve: ...aaaaand the line is drawn

 

Husband: lmao

 

 

He then said his phone was dying and that was the end of the convo.

 

Obviously, he lied right to my face when I first asked him about asking about her nipples. When I told him I had a copy the convo he initially stuck with his story that he didn't lie to me, because he didn't ask specifically for a pic of her nipples. Then he gave in and said he was joking about all of it but took it too far, and that he thought it'd be ok since it was our best friends and we joke around about everything when we're all together.

 

Finally he admitted what he said to her was wrong but still swears he wasn't cheating or trying to cheat. At one point he said he'd do counseling, then said we don't need it, that he can fix his problem of letting things go too far.

 

((Another helpful tidbit of his history: a few years ago he helped an old friend (female) move. A few weeks later I had a weird feeling and checked our phone bill. He'd been texting her 10-40ish times a day since he'd helped her move. Some nights she was the last person he texted and the first person he texted the next morning. When I confronted him he denied anything inappropriate was discussed. Swore they'd just been catching up as they hadn't talked for quite awhile & not seen each other in a few years (which I'm pretty positive was true). He deleted her off FB and told her he wasn't going to text her anymore. And I trusted that he hadn't until all this came up a couple days ago. Now I'm doubting everything he's told me about that entire situation.))

 

As of right now, I'm at a loss. I'm hurt, angry, confused, heartbroken. I told him I need time and space. He's sleeping on the sofa. I can't even look at him. He's apologized and is begging for another -last- chance. I have told him I am not making any decisions about anything right now. I'm too emotional to do anything but basically function and work. I have contacted a counselor and am waiting to hear back about scheduling an appointment.

 

Am I over reacting? Was this harmless flirting since were all friends, they're several states apart and nothing physical could happen? Is it considered cheating, or an EA? I don't know how to define it and I'm just trying to understand it all.

 

Thanks for any input or advice.

[ChickiePops]

If he felt the need to hide it from you and if you feel hurt by it then it is cheating.

 

Forgiveness is up to you. Is marriage counseling in the cards? Also perhaps cutting ties with this couple?

[MrMeh]

I would consider it cheating. If my significant other asked to see another guy's dick, there would be no doubt that I would be done with her.

 

I think you may be confused with his cheating behavior because of his constant denial. He knew it was bad. He deleted the messages to hide his flirtatious texts and then lied to your face about his intentions.

[Secondrodeo]

Yes, counseling will be starting as soon as the counselor gets back to me with an appointment date.

 

My heart hurts because this woman is my closest friend - I don't want to lose her friendship as a trade off to keep my marriage intact because my husband screwed up. I shouldn't be in this position to have to make these decisions.

 

Also, he had deleted the convo but had saved her bikini pics in a locked file on his phone.

 

He has deleted her from FB already. He did it without me asking him to. I told him it's not a social media problem.....

[Padme]

Sorry but that's cheating. Very clearly cheating. I think you're in a bit of denial to even be asking the question. You know it was wrong and so does he. He was trying to start something with her and he definitely would have taken it further if she hadn't said no. Sounds like a real jerk. Kind of crappy of your friend to send bikini pics but at least she drew the line and let you know what happened. Not the best behaviour from her but forgivable. I'd never be able to trust that man after seeing messages like that.

[ChickiePops]

Yes, counseling will be starting as soon as the counselor gets back to me with an appointment date.

 

My heart hurts because this woman is my closest friend - I don't want to lose her friendship as a trade off to keep my marriage intact because my husband screwed up. I shouldn't be in this position to have to make these decisions.

 

Also, he had deleted the convo but had saved her bikini pics in a locked file on his phone.

 

He has deleted her from FB already. He did it without me asking him to. I told him it's not a social media problem.....

 

Have you asked her why she sent half naked pics to your husband? Is her own husband aware of this exchange?

[Secondrodeo]

I consider it cheating, too. But for some reason I don't want to end a marriage solely based on an over-reaction to a FB message. I don't know why I feel that way.....it's almost like my mind knows what he said/did was bad but is also trying to convince me it's not THAT bad. So I'm seeking some objectivity and I really appreciate the input.

 

And without a doubt, I'm in denial to a certain degree. My 1st marriage of 17 yrs ended when my ex left me for his mistress. I truly believed my current husband would *never* do anything to hurt me since he knows the pain my ex caused me and my kids. Denial is part self-protection. And part of grieving what I thought my marriage was.

[Secondrodeo]

Hi Chickipops,

She has apologized to me about the pics she sent - she said she had no idea he would take the convo where he did or she'd have never replied to his first message. She was my friend first; she and my husband didn't meet until several months into our friendship.

The pics she sent are from a recent vacation and she's already posted them to her FB page. Her husband is very open and wouldn't care. (Honestly, he's too open with other women and that's an issue they're working on.)

[ChickiePops]

I consider it cheating, too. But for some reason I don't want to end a marriage solely based on an over-reaction to a FB message. I don't know why I feel that way.....it's almost like my mind knows what he said/did was bad but is also trying to convince me it's not THAT bad. So I'm seeking some objectivity and I really appreciate the input.

 

And without a doubt, I'm in denial to a certain degree. My 1st marriage of 17 yrs ended when my ex left me for his mistress. I truly believed my current husband would *never* do anything to hurt me since he knows the pain my ex caused me and my kids. Denial is part self-protection. And part of grieving what I thought my marriage was.

 

No one is suggesting ending your marriage. But since the four of you are so close, don't you think this is a conversation you should all have together, with all the information?

 

Nobody here is against you and nobody is trying to hurt you more. I promise. My boyfriend had an incident that wasn't quite cheating either and it's taken a few years to work past it but WORK is the operative word. Sweeping it under the rug isn't going to help you, your husband, or the other couple.

[ChickiePops]

Hi Chickipops,

She has apologized to me about the pics she sent - she said she had no idea he would take the convo where he did or she'd have never replied to his first message. She was my friend first; she and my husband didn't meet until several months into our friendship.

The pics she sent are from a recent vacation and she's already posted them to her FB page. Her husband is very open and wouldn't care. (Honestly, he's too open with other women and that's an issue they're working on.)

 

Ehhhhhh she still sent half naked pics to your husband..she sounds like an attention seeker. She's never going to admit to anything..why would she when she can blame your husband? But she shouldn't have sent those pics. She knew where the convo was going and she sent the pics anyway. Hell, even I knew where it was going before she sent those pics based on that convo. And if you're honest with yourself, you did too.

 

I'm sorry. I really really am. But you need to not sweep this under the rug..which is what you're doing right now. All you'd be doing is giving him permission to go even further next time.

[SammySammy]

It seems that the friend tried to keep it at an appropriate level, but your husband took it too far.

 

As it appears he has done many times in the past.

 

At the very least this guy is disrespectful and is taking you for granted.

 

I would keep the friend. She seems to be trustworthy.

 

Your husband needs a wake up call. Come to Jesus meeting. Or left to his own devices. I'll let you decide what to do about him.

 

But, DO NOT reward bad behavior. There needs to be some real consequences and some real repentance. Otherwise, he's going to assume he can continue to disrespect his wife while taking his marriage for granted.

[ChickiePops]

It seems that the friend tried to keep it at an appropriate level, but your husband took it too far.

 

As it appears he has done many times in the past.

 

At the very least this guy is disrespectful and is taking you for granted.

 

I would keep the friend. She seems to be trustworthy.

 

Your husband needs a wake up call. Come to Jesus meeting. Or left to his own devices. I'll let you decide what to do about him.

 

But, DO NOT reward bad behavior. There needs to be some real consequences and some real repentance. Otherwise, he's going to assume he can continue to disrespect his wife while taking his marriage for granted.

 

OP I respectfully disagree with this post. I think both of them were in the wrong. It was unnecessary for this woman to send bikini pics to your husband.

[SammySammy]

OP I respectfully disagree with this post. I think both of them were in the wrong. It was unnecessary for this woman to send bikini pics to your husband.

 

It was a bikini pic that was on FB. She and her husband had seen it before. I assume many other people have seen it too.

 

Several times she mentioned that he might want to be open with his wife about the things he was asking her for. Until he crossed the line with the question about nipples.

 

If she had sent him a bikini picture that wasn't public or a nude picture, I might agree with you. The couples are friends and it seems to me that one husband took his boob obsession too far.

[Secondrodeo]

I can see both sides: bikini pics being inappropriate AND the fact that she did tell him when he crossed the line and to not keep the convo a secret from me.

 

Yes, I feel he has completely disrespected me as well as our marriage. More than once. Is counseling going to be able to fix him? How long do I give it? So many unknowns and it drives me crazy.

 

Chickiepops, apologize if I came off as defensive in my previous response. That's not at all my intention. I didn't feel attacked at all - I agree that I'm in denial to a certain extent.

[minimariah]

I would keep the friend. She seems to be trustworthy.

 

i agree. i would definitely keep the friend.

 

OP - it seems like he takes it too far & when you "check him", he deletes everything and grovels for a bit. until the next time it happens. not sure if you'll get anywhere with conversations because he seems pretty hellbent on acting like everything is fine. and if you do decide to leave the marriage... you wouldn't be leaing it for this FB thing but for huge trust issues & his disrespect. and because you want to be happy... not needing to look over your shoulder and panick every time a woman with big boobs is around. i'm sorry you're going through this.

[S2B]

I consider it cheating, too. But for some reason I don't want to end a marriage solely based on an over-reaction to a FB message. I don't know why I feel that way.....it's almost like my mind knows what he said/did was bad but is also trying to convince me it's not THAT bad. So I'm seeking some objectivity and I really appreciate the input.

 

And without a doubt, I'm in denial to a certain degree. My 1st marriage of 17 yrs ended when my ex left me for his mistress. I truly believed my current husband would *never* do anything to hurt me since he knows the pain my ex caused me and my kids. Denial is part self-protection. And part of grieving what I thought my marriage was.

 

He told her he loved her (two women)!

 

Yes, he cheated. He lied and kept it from you and was on the prowl to see her nude.

 

That's just a jerk. He knows it too.

 

He wasn't sorry he did it. He knew he would hurt you.

 

He's only sorry you found out. There's a HUGE difference!

 

Your H seems like a jerk. Why are you staying when it seems like he's done this at least two times? There may be other times he hasn't told you as well - it's not like he's gonna be honest!

 

Without trust - there is no marriage.

[SammySammy]

No, counseling is not going to fix him. The only thing that's going to fix him is him deciding that his wife is worth respecting. That can happen instantaneously. Or it can never happen.

 

Counseling can help him see the importance of taking action, but it will not make him take the appropriate action.

 

How long you should stay depends on what he does (or doesn't do) to show you he's ready to treat you the way a wife should be treated.

[Secondrodeo]

He's agreeing to counseling. Says he'll do whatever it takes. I'm not buying it - he is panicking right now and desperate so his words don't hold any weight with me at this point.

 

He admits he doesn't know why he takes things too far. But thinks it's something he can fix on his own. Obviously not, or I wouldn't be here dealing with this bull $hit again.

 

It just simply sucks. I hate all the unknowns.

 

I did ask my friend ("Eve") if he'd ever sent any pics to her. She went back through all the convo and said he'd only sent a couple self-esteem of his chest/head and he always had a shirt on. Honestly, after reading what he said to her, I expected her to say he'd sent dick pics. Glad he hadn't gone that far (yet).

 

Thanks for the dialogue. It helps to have some input.

[Poutrew]

NO amount of counseling can cure him of his nipple fetish. If counseling, or psychology was powerful enough to do that, then it could turn a straight man gay, and visa versa. Ultimately you are going to have to answer the big question, which is: Are you willing to leave the marriage? If you can answer yes even a little bit, then you have your answer...

[merrmeade]

The problem is he had 0 sense of obligation to be honest with you. He had no intention of telling you any more than he had to. He even lied at first, then had the nerve to try intimidate you into believing it just teasing or playin' around.

 

Moving the woman is potentially more damning even if you can't prove it. They spent the whole day together, a lot of it behind closed doors inside her apartments.

 

Funny thing - I knew someone in a carpool of two - him adrheknk that (a) when he'd been in a carpool at work, it was only two people. The other was a woman. Helped her move. And then some. True story.

[whatatangledweb]

It's cheating. He was feeling her out to see if she was willing to cheat. Such as we can keep some things on the down low and to ourselves...then the nipple question.

[Lois_Griffin]

This guy is such a snake.

 

I think there's a WHOLE LOT you don't know about him and what he's done over the years.

 

Sounds as though he uses every opportunity he can to get himself some strange.

 

You'd be terribly naive to think he hasn't jumped on ANY opportunity that's fallen in his lap over the years. Quite honestly, he sounds like a disgusting dog in heat.

[Lois_Griffin]

He's agreeing to counseling. Says he'll do whatever it takes. I'm not buying it - he is panicking right now and desperate so his words don't hold any weight with me at this point.

Yeah, they'll pretty much do anything you want in order to appease you. He wasn't looking to lose his marriage or family. He was just looking to get himself some strange without you knowing about it.

 

That's what selfish assclown cheaters DO. He's not unique.

 

But I can guarantee you this wasn't his FIRST time trying to get himself some action since you've been married.

Obviously not, or I wouldn't be here dealing with this bull $hit again.

Ooops, I guess I was right. I hadn't seen this part of your post but I'm not surprised to see this isn't his first time. Not by a LONG shot.

 

I did ask my friend ("Eve") if he'd ever sent any pics to her. She went back through all the convo and said he'd only sent a couple self-esteem of his chest/head and he always had a shirt on. Honestly, after reading what he said to her, I expected her to say he'd sent dick pics. Glad he hadn't gone that far (yet).

All she'd have to do is ask. He's like a horny alley cat. Blech.

[elaine567]

Obviously, he lied right to my face when I first asked him about asking about her nipples. When I told him I had a copy the convo he initially stuck with his story that he didn't lie to me, because he didn't ask specifically for a pic of her nipples. Then he gave in and said he was joking about all of it but took it too far, and that he thought it'd be ok since it was our best friends and we joke around about everything when we're all together.

 

Finally he admitted what he said to her was wrong but still swears he wasn't cheating or trying to cheat. At one point he said he'd do counseling, then said we don't need it, that he can fix his problem of letting things go too far.

 

 

Gaslighting and trickle truthing, both pretty common in people who are cheating.

[sandylee1]

Gaslighting and trickle truthing, both pretty common in people who are cheating.

 

Regardless of whether or not it's cheating (I don't think it is), it's behaviour that's highly inappropriate and not what I would welcome from my husband. Especially as he has form.

 

Definitely not a man I can trust especially as he blatantly lied about it, totally denied it and then minimised by saying it was a joke. I could not be married (not happily anyway) to a man like this.