Would YOU consider this cheating? So ....

[Mrs. John Adams]

No, I haven't asked her what her perception of it was because I didn't think her perception mattered. I think MY perception of it is what's important. Can you explain how her perception would make a differnce? I'm open to listening and understanding.

 

I didn't banish him from the bedroom. He slept on the sofa voluntarily.

 

I guess I don't know what to say to him so I'm just saying nothing. He doesn't understand the significance of the things he said to her or the implications of it. He is so oblivious. So I wouldn't even know where to begin with talking to him. If he doesn't "get it" then nothing I say will make it better.

 

Your perception is of absolutely important! But what if you misunderstood something?

 

You had no problem asking her for a copy of the conversation...why then wouldn't you ask her what she thought about it? You are dear friends....certainly you would value her opinion.

 

If she told you...kick his arse out...he was inappropriate and i was totally insulted...you would listen...and weigh her words. Right?

 

But what if she says...oh he was just goofing off...no problem...no harm done. Wouldn't you also weigh those words?

 

He is sleeping on the sofa because you told him you need time and space....he respects that so he is leaving you alone.

 

You don't know what to say to him...so you are saying nothing. Meanwhile you are contemplating your relationship with him...and dissecting it and even thinking about divorce.

 

Don't you think the two of you need to sit down and discuss how you are FEELING? You need to tell him that he has disappointed you...that he has made you feel insecure...and that he is making you doubt the relationship you have together.

 

Not talking to him....is probably the worst thing you can do...because if you don't talk about this...how can you figure anything out?

 

If your relationship together is important....you would both be willing to do what is necessary to fix it...and the first step in fixing it is to communicate.

 

How will he know the damage he has done if you don't tell him?

 

I think you are looking at this relationship through the eyes of a woman who has been hurt before....and you are closing yourself off from him so as to protect yourself. But the reality is...that sometimes in order to fix the relationship...we have to become MORE open. I know that's really hard to do...I understand.

[flowergirl14]

Thank you.

 

It still sucks. But it sucked more when I had 3 kids, ages 9-15, whose hearts were broken and whose world's were turned completely upside down when their dad decided his girlfriend was his "soulmate". (Funny thing is, he married her and has cheated on her several times since.)

 

I hate that any woman (or man) has to go through this due to a spouse being an *********. Good people don't deserve to be treated this way.

 

I'm not a perfect wife, but I'm a damn good one. I make twice as much money as he does, I'm a great mom, I suppose him with small gifts/tokens of my appreciation for him; I am in my sexual prime so he never gets refused; I have a fun sense of humor; I'm educated (Masters degree) and love good conversation..... I really try to be the kind of spouse that can make him happy. And this is what I get in return?

 

You been to this rodeo before! You KNOW its not about you. You know your awesome and a good person. Its him! Some people have it all and want more. Id be curious if he is that way in other parts of his life. Also, did you ever see the content of their text messages or did he delete them?

[Secondrodeo]

You been to this rodeo before! You KNOW its not about you. You know your awesome and a good person. Its him! Some people have it all and want more. Id be curious if he is that way in other parts of his life. Also, did you ever see the content of their text messages or did he delete them?

 

My head knows it's him....but a woman's heart casts doubt & insecurity. Like maybe it IS me, since I've been through this in my 1st marriage, too.

 

I have a copy of the entire message. He had deleted kt, but saved her pics on a locked folder on his phone. She sent me the convo as soon as I asked her to.

[whichwayisup]

New to the site, so hello.

A quick background: my 2nd marriage, his 1st, no kids together. Married 5+ yrs but known each other for 30+.

 

Husband and I are best friends with another couple that moved halfway across the country last year. We keep in touch via occasional calls, FB posts, texts. We all are easygoing with crazy senses of humor. We joke around often about everything and no one takes it seriously and we can be pretty crass.

 

I was talking with the wife of this couple (I'll call her Eve) the other night, just girl talk, catching up, etc. She asked how my husband was and casually mentioned that they'd messaged via FB and he'd asked about her nipples. Now, my husband is a major boob guy and Eve has naturally big boobs. We (me, Eve & her hubby) all know my husband likes boobs, hers included.

 

After I hung up from talking to her , it was just nagging at me that he'd messaged her and mentioned her nipples. So I asked him about it. He adamantly denied flirting or trying to flirt, trying to cheat, asking for pics of anything (boobs/nipples, etc). He said he made some comment about a "mental picture" of her nipples and that was it.

He had deleted the messages so I couldn't confirm if he was being truthful or not. But she still had the entire convo and sent it to me the next day as soon as I asked.

 

Here's how their convo went :

 

Husband : you ever gonna send me any more sexy pics?

 

Eve: I don't ever want to make your wife mad. Otherwise, I don't care.

**(sent pics of herself in bikini on the beach, which were already posted to FB so he'd seen them already)

 

Husband: I wont keep them to keep us out of trouble. I love to look though. You are perfection. We can keep a few little things on the down low.

 

Eve: ummmm...better to keep them & be upfront with her. She won't care about bikini pics.

 

Husband: are u going to tell her? Or just leave it as I saved them? You know I'm in love with 2 women, don't you?

 

Eve: lol...You'll never know.

 

Husband. Ok. For my mental picture, what do your nipples look like?

 

Eve: ...aaaaand the line is drawn

 

Husband: lmao

 

 

He then said his phone was dying and that was the end of the convo.

 

Obviously, he lied right to my face when I first asked him about asking about her nipples. When I told him I had a copy the convo he initially stuck with his story that he didn't lie to me, because he didn't ask specifically for a pic of her nipples. Then he gave in and said he was joking about all of it but took it too far, and that he thought it'd be ok since it was our best friends and we joke around about everything when we're all together.

 

Finally he admitted what he said to her was wrong but still swears he wasn't cheating or trying to cheat. At one point he said he'd do counseling, then said we don't need it, that he can fix his problem of letting things go too far.

 

((Another helpful tidbit of his history: a few years ago he helped an old friend (female) move. A few weeks later I had a weird feeling and checked our phone bill. He'd been texting her 10-40ish times a day since he'd helped her move. Some nights she was the last person he texted and the first person he texted the next morning. When I confronted him he denied anything inappropriate was discussed. Swore they'd just been catching up as they hadn't talked for quite awhile & not seen each other in a few years (which I'm pretty positive was true). He deleted her off FB and told her he wasn't going to text her anymore. And I trusted that he hadn't until all this came up a couple days ago. Now I'm doubting everything he's told me about that entire situation.))

 

As of right now, I'm at a loss. I'm hurt, angry, confused, heartbroken. I told him I need time and space. He's sleeping on the sofa. I can't even look at him. He's apologized and is begging for another -last- chance. I have told him I am not making any decisions about anything right now. I'm too emotional to do anything but basically function and work. I have contacted a counselor and am waiting to hear back about scheduling an appointment.

 

Am I over reacting? Was this harmless flirting since were all friends, they're several states apart and nothing physical could happen? Is it considered cheating, or an EA? I don't know how to define it and I'm just trying to understand it all.

 

Thanks for any input or advice.

 

He is acting totally inappropriately and he knows it too. He is enjoying the attention and is getting an ego feed from her. Wonder how HER husband would feel if he saw the conversation?

 

Anyway, time to put distance in this friendship, if you don't your H and your so called 'friend' are going to end up in an affair. Right now it's crossing lines and dangerously close to causing a lot more damage than what's already been done.

[Secondrodeo]

Your perception is of absolutely important! But what if you misunderstood something?

 

You had no problem asking her for a copy of the conversation...why then wouldn't you ask her what she thought about it? You are dear friends....certainly you would value her opinion.

 

If she told you...kick his arse out...he was inappropriate and i was totally insulted...you would listen...and weigh her words. Right?

 

But what if she says...oh he was just goofing off...no problem...no harm done. Wouldn't you also weigh those words?

 

He is sleeping on the sofa because you told him you need time and space....he respects that so he is leaving you alone.

 

You don't know what to say to him...so you are saying nothing. Meanwhile you are contemplating your relationship with him...and dissecting it and even thinking about divorce.

 

Don't you think the two of you need to sit down and discuss how you are FEELING? You need to tell him that he has disappointed you...that he has made you feel insecure...and that he is making you doubt the relationship you have together.

 

Not talking to him....is probably the worst thing you can do...because if you don't talk about this...how can you figure anything out?

 

If your relationship together is important....you would both be willing to do what is necessary to fix it...and the first step in fixing it is to communicate.

 

How will he know the damage he has done if you don't tell him?

 

I think you are looking at this relationship through the eyes of a woman who has been hurt before....and you are closing yourself off from him so as to protect yourself. But the reality is...that sometimes in order to fix the relationship...we have to become MORE open. I know that's really hard to do...I understand.

 

 

I asked her what she thought. She wasn't insulted or angry at him. She felt like he probably viewed her as a "safe" person to flirt with since we're all close friends, plus she's half the country away from us. But she did recognize he'd overstepped boundaries when he asked the nipple question. She said she thinks he needs to recognize the significance it has to me, as far as how it's hurt me. And that she could see our marriage going either way, depending on how he reacts in counseling.

 

I just went to talk to him and he's sound asleep. He has a sick headache so I didn't wake him up.

[whichwayisup]

I asked her what she thought. She wasn't insulted or angry at him. She felt like he probably viewed her as a "safe" person to flirt with since we're all close friends, plus she's half the country away from us. But she did recognize he'd overstepped boundaries when he asked the nipple question. She said she thinks he needs to recognize the significance it has to me, as far as how it's hurt me. And that she could see our marriage going either way, depending on how he reacts in counseling.

 

I just went to talk to him and he's sound asleep. He has a sick headache so I didn't wake him up.

 

She over stepped boundaries too. By allowing this contact to continue. Her husband would probably NOT like this either.

 

Did she reach out to your husband too or is it one sided? Chances are she was enjoying this 'safe' flirting too. Though it was wrong and she knew it.

[S2B]

What is your husband willing to DO to change himself?

 

If he's not willing to change - your still left with a sneaky liar that cheats.

 

What has he offer to do?

[wmacbride]

Your husband was casting out a line and hoping she'd take it. I'm quite sure this wasn't first time and won;t be the last.

 

He obviously has very poor personal boundaries and a terrible sense of what's appropriate/ not appropriate, and if she hadn't stopped him, or if she had been willing, he would have taken things as far as he could.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I asked her what she thought. She wasn't insulted or angry at him. She felt like he probably viewed her as a "safe" person to flirt with since we're all close friends, plus she's half the country away from us. But she did recognize he'd overstepped boundaries when he asked the nipple question. She said she thinks he needs to recognize the significance it has to me, as far as how it's hurt me. And that she could see our marriage going either way, depending on how he reacts in counseling.

 

I just went to talk to him and he's sound asleep. He has a sick headache so I didn't wake him up.

 

SO she thinks he overstepped...but she is not offended and did not feel like he was attempting to approach her as a potential partner.

 

I agree with her from what the exchange said.

 

I also agree that the both of you need to talk about this....you need to discuss how it made you feel....and why. He needs to be made aware of the pain it caused you.

 

You need to discuss why he did it....and how he is now feeling about what he did.

 

Yes...this episode has caused damage....but it is damage that you can overcome if the two of you have an honest conversation....and learn more about each other from it.

 

In your first post you asked am I overreacting?

 

what do you think? Do you believe that while this was absolutely an inappropriate exchange between the two of them...that it has destroyed your relationship? DO you think it has done permanent damage that the two of you can never overcome?

 

Do you think that good communication about this between the two of you can help to repair the damage?

 

Only you know the answers to these questions.

 

I think he needs a come to Jesus meeting....I think the two of you need some therapy together....I think you have true fear that he is going to cheat ...and you want to protect yourself from hurt.....I think he is sorry ....but the question is ...is he sorry enough to want to fix it...to fix and shore up his boundaries?

 

There is a lot the two of you need to talk about...

[usa1ah]

Ok just wow.

 

First thing, the four of you were ok with your husband being breast guy and also having a thing for her's.

 

Next, the four of you would joke around sexually but go no further.

 

Then he basically asked to see hers and she says as long as you known she is ok with it. Or did I read what she sent you wrong. But asking what her nipple looks like is crossing the line. You might not be into her husband but sounds like she might be into yours.

 

Yes he lied about the whole thing and never should have. But the situation was not all of his making. The four of you played with fire and you got burned.

 

The thing that needs to be delt with is the lies that he told and why he did it.

[usa1ah]

Husband : you ever gonna send me any more sexy pics?

 

********Eve: I don't ever want to make your wife mad. ***Otherwise, I don't care.***

**(sent pics of herself in bikini on the beach, which were already posted to FB so he'd seen them already)

 

Husband: I wont keep them to keep us out of trouble. I love to look though. You are perfection. We can keep a few little things on the down low.

 

Eve: ummmm...better to keep them & be upfront with her. She won't care about bikini pics.

 

Husband: are u going to tell her? Or just leave it as I saved them? You know I'm in love with 2 women, don't you?

 

Eve: lol...You'll never know.

 

Husband. Ok. For my mental picture, what do your nipples look like?

 

Eve: ...aaaaand the line is drawn

 

 

She is ok sending your husband sexy pics as long as you know about it. So is this the only conversation they have had or is there more to it. This does not sound like sexy pics was first talked about at this point. How long has he been asking for them and how long has she been leading him on?

[Mrs. John Adams]

This is why i asked about the kind of relationship they four of them had together. The dynamics between the four of them is very important in trying to piece together this conversation that transpired between the husband and her friend.

 

You cannot place 100% of the BLAME on him...if their friendship includes open flirtation.

 

If it is ok that the four of them exchange sexual remarks and innuendos....if they openly discuss sexual subjects....then...he may think it is ok to continue that kind of conversation and behavior without his wife's presence.

 

I am not saying anyone is doing anything inappropriately...but you have to make sure that CLEAR boundaries are drawn....not with just each couple...but between all four of them.

 

I don't think any "cheating" has transpired....but I certainly believe lines need to be clearly drawn...and if stepped over...dealt with.

 

I am not saying not to deal with it now....but communicating feelings and disappointments and pain and hurt....is necessary in order to move forward.

[66Charger]

You are doing exactly what you should do.

 

In a way, I could see why the boundary was crossed. There were sexual jokes about each other, including the two of you women. The mind of man wandered and he asked for a thrill. That is probaly the end of the sexual jokes, forever, I gather.

 

Now, he is sleeping on the couch. You are not talking to him. Wondering if you will divorce. He now knows he cant even LOOK at another womans nipple, let alone cheat, without a heavy price to pay.

 

Divorce? I dont think so, but "slapping him in the face"...necessary.

[Mrs. John Adams]

You are doing exactly what you should do.

 

In a way, I could see why the boundary was crossed. There were sexual jokes about each other, including the two of you women. The mind of man wandered and he asked for a thrill. That is probaly the end of the sexual jokes, forever, I gather.

 

Now, he is sleeping on the couch. You are not talking to him. Wondering if you will divorce. He now knows he cant even LOOK at another womans nipple, let alone cheat, without a heavy price to pay.

 

Divorce? I dont think so, but "slapping him in the face"...necessary.

 

I would certainly think the friendship will be changed....especially if she shares the "conversation" with the other husband.

 

Boundaries will be wound back in tighter for all of them...

 

It is something that should most definitely be discussed...and if he ever crosses the line again....he knows the cost will be his marriage.

[aliveagain]

It is obvious that your husband is the one that is pursuing and pushing the boundaries. She is guilty of enjoying the attention but did shut it down when he went too far. Maybe her husband should have a talk with your husband. Your husband was definitely fishing to see if she was open to more. It is your husband that has the problem with boundaries and he is definitely looking outside of your relationship for attention. He needs independent counselling to find out why he needs validation from other women and why you aren't enough for him. You may want to seek out the woman he helped move, find out what really happened there.

[seekingpeaceinlove]

I haven't read the whole thread but can you imagine what he would be doing if the best friend had been receptive? He would absolutely 100% have taken things further.

 

No, marriage shouldn't be thrown away over imappropriate texing...BUT this guy sounds like he's just itching to cheat.

 

The fact that OP's husband even started that line of talk...ugh...so disrespectful. AND he's a bonefide liar.

 

Hubby's character is questionable at best. Not sure how much counseling will help someone who 1.) asking his wife's best friend to send "sexy pic" and ask about her nipple 2.) lying to wife repeatedly

[ChickiePops]

Is anyone going to address the fact that he told this other woman that he is in LOVE with her? Doesn't that matter more than some pictures?

[Mrs. John Adams]

In the jist of the conversation... I believe he was kidding. I am sure he does love her as a friend.

 

It did not sound like he was seriously declaring his LOVE for her.

 

In light of the relationship between the four of them... I don't see the ...you know I love two women ....that appalling.

[ChickiePops]

In the jist of the conversation... I believe he was kidding. I am sure he does love her as a friend.

 

It did not sound like he was seriously declaring his LOVE for her.

 

In light of the relationship between the four of them... I don't see the ...you know I love two women ....that appalling.

 

He said he was IN love with two women.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree because it didn't sound like a joke to me.

[merrmeade]

In the jist of the conversation... I believe he was kidding. I am sure he does love her as a friend.

 

It did not sound like he was seriously declaring his LOVE for her.

 

In light of the relationship between the four of them... I don't see the ...you know I love two women ....that appalling.

I'm sorry, mja, but I'm going to chalk this up to your innocence and goodness and say this advice is thoroughly dangerous for rodeo.

 

However, rodeo has excellent antennae in my opinion and will sort all the advice she's been given well.

[elaine567]

In the jist of the conversation... I believe he was kidding. I am sure he does love her as a friend.

 

It did not sound like he was seriously declaring his LOVE for her.

 

In light of the relationship between the four of them... I don't see the ...you know I love two women ....that appalling.

 

He didn't say I love two women, he said I am in love with two women, plus he suggested she keep it on the down low and she was "perfection" and he wanted to know what her nipples looked like - that's not a joke, that is straight out of the cheater's handbook.

A joke is where he makes ridiculous suggestive remarks in front of everyone, not when he is in a one to one private conversation with someone else's wife on the phone.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I absolutely think the man overstepped and I think he needs correction..

 

But I think the whole thing was inappropriate flirting.. Not cheating.

 

Now if there are things in his history that indicate he has done this before... Only she knows that not me.

 

 

I think she has every reason to be mad and hurt.

 

And he needs to know that...

 

But to contemplate separation or divorce? I don't know I just think that is overreaction.

 

I don't want to cause rodeo harm good grief...

[merrmeade]

You've unearthed a HUGE can of worms in your relationship that you will not be able to ignore. Regardless of the next step, there will be no 'outcome' for a while. This is just the beginning - but the beginning of something long overdue that will, in the end (I hope and pray for your sake), give you and your husband a better marriage and better lives.

 

So, starting on the premise that he hasn't done more than chat inappropriately and flirt, even more than once, you both have a lot of work to do. But you're WAY further along in knowing yourself, your priorities and the boundaries that protect them. Besides acting like a complete reprobate, he's been a complete idiot, risks losing you and doesn't even acknowledge it. So he's not even at the starting point for this work - and that's being charitable.

 

Regarding the other couple: If you wanted to continue your relationship later, this could become a foursome process of counseling + group therapy at some point. But I think that must wait. First is your relationship with your husband.

[Secondrodeo]

You've unearthed a HUGE can of worms in your relationship that you will not be able to ignore. Regardless of the next step, there will be no 'outcome' for a while. This is just the beginning - but the beginning of something long overdue that will, in the end (I hope and pray for your sake), give you and your husband a better marriage and better lives.

 

So, starting on the premise that he hasn't done more than chat inappropriately and flirt, even more than once, you both have a lot of work to do. But you're WAY further along in knowing yourself, your priorities and the boundaries that protect them. Besides acting like a complete reprobate, he's been a complete idiot, risks losing you and doesn't even acknowledge it. So he's not even at the starting point for this work - and that's being charitable.

 

Regarding the other couple: If you wanted to continue your relationship later, this could become a foursome process of counseling + group therapy at some point. But I think that must wait. First is your relationship with your husband.

 

We talked for a bit today when we had some time alone. I explained my hurt, my lain, my perception of everything. I tried to explain it clearly so that he could possibly begin to see how awful he has made me feel. By the end of the convo he did say he didn't realize just how bad his comments to her were until I told him. He didn't perceive them as being as bad as they are.

 

He says he doesn't know *why* he crosses those boundaries. He doesn't understand himself and says he is 100% happy with me and our marriage. To me, those are contradictory things: what he said in his messages & being 100% happy. They just don't go together.

 

He says he'll go to counseling. He's sorry and will do whatever it takes because he wants to be married. I just told him his words are empty because his actions show me otherwise. And that he'll have to try and prove himself to me over time. But that there are no guarantees from me as far as the outcome. If he can't figure it why he acts this way behind my back as well as figuring out how to prevent it from happening again, then I'm not staying married to him. I'm not setting a time frame right now; I will see how things progress in counseling.

[ChickiePops]

That sounds like a very positive conversation and a good solution. You don't have to make any decisions about anything until you're ready.