Would YOU consider this cheating? So ....

[merrmeade]

One more thing, r (there might be a few more "one more things" actually) -

 

Going to go about this one a bit round-about with a tiny aside: I used to block certain people that were just complete downers for me. I'd feel so discouraged and like I had to defend MY actions or need to move at a certain pace instead of receiving advice in a thoughtful, supportive way. Well, I stopped blocking and just skim over now. But sometimes I check to make sure someone else isn't getting hit over the head with the same kind of - What's wrong with you already?! Why don't you leave? Why don't you leave? Why don't you leave?

 

So I'm just telling you that this happens and it's unfortunate because there's a whole HUGE world of communication, understanding, growth and change between - this was my boundary - and - I'm glad I gave you another chance - that is NOBODY's business but yours.

 

Don't be sucked by anyone - not me either. Just saying - hold your sense of self and what's right for you.

[Mrs. John Adams]

One more thing, r (there might be a few more "one more things" actually) -

 

Going to go about this one a bit round-about with a tiny aside: I used to block certain people that were just complete downers for me. I'd feel so discouraged and like I had to defend MY actions or need to move at a certain pace instead of receiving advice in a thoughtful, supportive way. Well, I stopped blocking and just skim over now. But sometimes I check to make sure someone else isn't getting hit over the head with the same kind of - What's wrong with you already?! Why don't you leave? Why don't you leave? Why don't you leave?

 

So I'm just telling you that this happens and it's unfortunate because there's a whole HUGE world of communication, understanding, growth and change between - this was my boundary - and - I'm glad I gave you another chance - that is NOBODY's business but yours.

 

Don't be sucked by anyone - not me either. Just saying - hold your sense of self and what's right for you.

 

Thanks for this Merremeade....I was really getting depressed...because I just hate all this negative input over an e mail.

 

I know he was inappropriate...but my john WISHES all I had done was sent an inappropriate e mail. I know it still hurts...but my god.....he did not FV** her friend...he said inappropriate things...he inappropriately flirted. Yes he HURT rodeo....but I just don't think he needs to be crucified. If she is this torn apart by an email...how would she react to his flying out to meet her dear friend at a hotel and banging her for the weekend? I think she needs to keep things in proper perspective....

 

and ultimately at the end of the day....it is her choice to do what she deems best FOR HER...not for him.

[Mr. Lucky]

it is her choice to do what she deems best FOR HER...not for him.

 

I think the OP's carefully charted "trust but verify" course of action fits this bill.

 

Though had friend responded "my nipples are like maraschino cherries", can't help but wonder what H's next step would have been ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Poutrew]

Though had friend responded "my nipples are like maraschino cherries", can't help but wonder what H's next step would have been ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Damn, Mr. Lucky. I read your post just as I was about to eat a banana split - and guess what was on top of all that whipped cream? 2 maraschino cherries...though in honor of your post, I saved them for last...

Edited June 26, 2016 by Poutrew

[Secondrodeo]

He is a grown man he doesn't need reminded of "boundaries" nor does he need "counselling" to rid him of his obvious misdirected horniness. He either considers himself a married man or he doesn't.

He made an obvious play at your friend, I guess not for the first time, as he wanted "more" sexy pics.

 

Sex, lies & police work

 

That's exactly what I told him, too: he says he is happily married but his actions sure don't reflect that. He was 45 when we started dating, had never been married; he was in one long-term relationship but that was in his late 20s. So I've wondered if 45 yeas of being single has made him struggle with changing some of his behaviors? And no, I'm not saying it's ok, or that he could use that as an excuse. But could it be a thought process/habit that was there for so long that he doesn't notice it now?

 

Thanks for the link as well. It focused a lot on nurses; ironically, I'm an RN. We didn't meet through work, though. But he does occasionally work security at a hospital emergency department....and he likes nurses so now my mind is going there.... ugh

[Mr. Lucky]

He was 45 when we started dating, had never been married; he was in one long-term relationship but that was in his late 20s. So I've wondered if 45 yeas of being single has made him struggle with changing some of his behaviors? And no, I'm not saying it's ok, or that he could use that as an excuse. But could it be a thought process/habit that was there for so long that he doesn't notice it now?

 

 

I actually won a small bet with myself when you said he was in "law enforcement", hard to find an environment where this stuff is more ingrained.

 

Don't think you lose much by giving him a chance to change. Though you may want to share your skepticism with him in advance ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Secondrodeo]

I actually won a small bet with myself when you said he was in "law enforcement", hard to find an environment where this stuff is more ingrained.

 

Don't think you lose much by giving him a chance to change. Though you may want to share your skepticism with him in advance ...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I'm pretty sure he knows I'm not making any guarantees about our marriage until we are well into counseling and he has figured out what the issues are and how to address them. I've made it clear I'm undecided right now and it make take awhile before I'm comfortable making a decision. He is still wanting to start counseling and says he will do whatever I need to be happy. I suppose time will prove it one way or another.

[Secondrodeo]

HE should be the one to make the appointment with the counselor! Do not call. See how long it takes him to make the appointment.

 

A man desperate to save his marriage would call within one day.

 

True, hadn't thought of it that way. My daughter sees a counselor so I contacted her since I already know her.

[Mrs. John Adams]

True, hadn't thought of it that way. My daughter sees a counselor so I contacted her since I already know her.

 

I don't think it matters who makes the appointment as long as he agrees to go and follows through with it.

[usa1ah]

If he's got any brains in his head at all he will lay off the dirty talk for good with this couple. I still think the friend sounds like she was surreptitiously calling the OP a prude and leading her husband on but I guess I'm alone there. He definitely crossed a boundary and the friend didn't. But if it were me I'd back waaaaaaaay off on the friendship.

 

 

 

 

 

You are forgetting OP was part of this dirty talk as well. She just as much to blame as her husband..

[usa1ah]

Never heard breasts referred to as women. Never.

 

The girls - would be believable. Lady parts would fly.

 

But he said "you know I'm in love with 2 women" - and he wasn't talking about her breasts.

 

I think the H is a douchebag who does whatever he wishes when he thinks he won't get caught.

 

Is your H a drinker, OP? Does he act terrible while drinking, drugging?

 

 

 

Ok fine.

 

 

OP is your husband in love with you and your friend?

 

 

What was your take on that part of the message?

 

 

Thank you.

[usa1ah]

He's agreed to MC and says he'll do whatever else it takes to fix himself and the pain he's caused me. He seems truly upset - has had a horrid headache, nausea, trouble eating, etc since this all came to light a few days ago.

 

I'm not making any decisions about anything right now. I'm going to see how MC goes and *if* a therapist can help him/us figure out what the hell is going on in his head to make him think this behavior is ok.

 

 

 

SR have you ever talked to him about boundaries when it comes to this couple?

 

 

Or was it everyone just having a good time?

[usa1ah]

Yes, he and I had already had conversations about my boundaries for our marriage and he was in agreement. We've discussed how I expect him to treat other women in regards to texting, talking, flirting, not hiding any friendships or communication from me, etc. So I am confident those expectations were clear; he just chose to ignore them for some reason.

 

We live several states away from this couple. We've only seen them once in the year since they moved out of state, so there's little to no physical contact with them at all.

 

 

 

But when it came to this couple and the jokes and stuff that went on, did the two of you take about this situation it self?

 

 

I understand in general there are things couples just don't do, but the relationship the four of you had, opened doors that should never of been opened. The fact that everyone knew your husband had a thing for the OW's breast and it seems was accepted. This fact alone should have been stopped from the start. It just sounds like from what your original post said that this was the normal thing when the four of you got to gather. The four of you where very comfortable with one another to talk and joke about sex, your husband just went to far when the four of you where already in the red zone.

[Cinnamonstix]

But when it came to this couple and the jokes and stuff that went on, did the two of you take about this situation it self?

 

 

I understand in general there are things couples just don't do, but the relationship the four of you had, opened doors that should never of been opened. The fact that everyone knew your husband had a thing for the OW's breast and it seems was accepted. This fact alone should have been stopped from the start. It just sounds like from what your original post said that this was the normal thing when the four of you got to gather. The four of you where very comfortable with one another to talk and joke about sex, your husband just went to far when the four of you where already in the red zone.

 

It is clear as day the husband knew he was crossing boundaries. He suggested in his little fb convo that he and the friend keep it between the two of them.

 

Also, there is a huge difference between making sexual jokes when SO's are present vs. when SO's are not. I think we can stop blaming the OP now.

[66Charger]

I am astounded by the cruxifiction. The Husband did cross a boundary, but the wife walked right up to it, with him. Sexual jokes about the wife and her? Ok. Sexual jokes about her boobs? Ok. He loves her boobs? Ha ha OK.

 

Sorry, your boudaries were loose to begin with. Correcting that is the right thing to do. Hypocrisy is not. Get a lawyer? Get your ducks in a row? How about just fixing the mess without the fire and brimstone

 

Cheating is wrong on all occassions, but if you behave a certain way, why are you surprised when it happens.

Edited June 28, 2016 by 66Charger

[usa1ah]

It is clear as day the husband knew he was crossing boundaries. He suggested in his little fb convo that he and the friend keep it between the two of them.

 

Also, there is a huge difference between making sexual jokes when SO's are present vs. when SO's are not. I think we can stop blaming the OP now.

 

I am not blaming the OP. The husband lied about what happened. That should be the issue. Yes he said some hurtful things in the message. Tell me this, what was the sex talks about that they had as a group or one on one or when just three of them were together? You know I have not nor will I ask OP this. She said they could be very crass so we will leave it at that. But if the way they talked in the message went along they way they were when they use to get together. Then it was a continuation form the talks they had as a group. They played with fire and got burned. They are both at fault, him more then her but still at fault. His biggest screw up was lying about it. You never lie to your wife or husband. That is a breach of trust a spouse can never excuse.

 

With this said did they play with fire, yes. Did he cross a line, He'll yes. But the bigger line crossed was the lie in denying the message.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am not blaming the OP. The husband lied about what happened. That should be the issue. Yes he said some hurtful things in the message. Tell me this, what was the sex talks about that they had as a group or one on one or when just three of them were together? You know I have not nor will I ask OP this. She said they could be very crass so we will leave it at that. But if the way they talked in the message went along they way they were when they use to get together. Then it was a continuation form the talks they had as a group. They played with fire and got burned. They are both at fault, him more then her but still at fault. His biggest screw up was lying about it. You never lie to your wife or husband. That is a breach of trust a spouse can never excuse.

 

With this said did they play with fire, yes. Did he cross a line, He'll yes. But the bigger line crossed was the lie in denying the message.

 

 

I can't tell you the dynamics of the conversations between the four of them...but regardless...Rodeo has said that they have discussed boundaries in the past. She came out of a marriage tainted by infidelity...she made sure her new husband knew where the lines were drawn. I can only take her word for this....

 

I won't make assumptions....she has willingly answered every question asked of her on this thread...she has been above board and honest....

 

No matter what the foursome relationship was....her husband clearly crossed her line. He KNEW he crossed her line or he would not have lied about it. He knows he was wrong....he is willing to go to therapy....he was willing to give her space....to clear her head

 

I see a man who is trying to rectify his behavior...and a woman willing to give him the chance.

 

what more can you ask of a couple?

 

at the end of the day...these two are only accountable to each other....not to you...or not to me. They do not owe us an explanation....

 

She came here seeking help and advice....she got what she asked for and she took the criticism along with the praise.

 

I wish her much happiness and peace as she continues to search for answers to a complicated situation. She is broken....she does not need to also be humiliated by those of us here who are internet strangers.

[usa1ah]

I can't tell you the dynamics of the conversations between the four of them...but regardless...Rodeo has said that they have discussed boundaries in the past. She came out of a marriage tainted by infidelity...she made sure her new husband knew where the lines were drawn. I can only take her word for this....

 

I won't make assumptions....she has willingly answered every question asked of her on this thread...she has been above board and honest....

 

No matter what the foursome relationship was....her husband clearly crossed her line. He KNEW he crossed her line or he would not have lied about it. He knows he was wrong....he is willing to go to therapy....he was willing to give her space....to clear her head

 

I see a man who is trying to rectify his behavior...and a woman willing to give him the chance.

 

what more can you ask of a couple?

 

at the end of the day...these two are only accountable to each other....not to you...or not to me. They do not owe us an explanation....

 

She came here seeking help and advice....she got what she asked for and she took the criticism along with the praise.

 

I wish her much happiness and peace as she continues to search for answers to a complicated situation. She is broken....she does not need to also be humiliated by those of us here who are internet strangers.

 

 

 

I agree with you completely. The thing is why get into a relationship as close as they did with the other couple if your are trying to protect your marriage from infidelity, where the next step was to cross the line. Its like running a 100 mph and stopping at the line and damn the person the goes across. She had no problem with him ogling her friends boobs, but don't go any further. This is just asking of trouble. This should had been addressed from the start and not tolerated. The problem started when this was tolerated by all four of them.

 

 

Your are right she has been honest with this thread, in all aspects of it. This started years ago when they where hanging out with each other, it is not so simple to just bash the husband. We all agree he did wrong, he betrayed her and her trust.

 

 

The other question is why the boob thing was not stopped from the get go if infidelity is such a issue? I am not blaming OP for this just asking why it was allowed. Because like everything else in a marriages, this developed over time and was not stopped in the beginning.

 

 

They both have things to work on. We all know what OP's husband has to work on. The question is, why OP was ok with her husband ogling her best friends breast all these years? Hence, playing with fire. Is what she did wrong, no she thought that was as far as it would go. We all know from experience or seeing it first hand, you give someone enough rope they will hang themselves. This would never of happened I think if the ogling was stopped in the beginning.

 

 

OP I wish you the very best with what you are dealing with. Do what you need to do to heal.

[usa1ah]

Just an example. I think we have all read a thread at some point where a couples pillow talk has gone to far. It starts out as a fantasy they talk about, then over time one of them gets a message "going for it". To late to stop the shi train express. Things of a sexual nature have a tendency of getting out of hand no matter how innocent they start out.

[Secondrodeo]

Please let me clarify something: my husband didn't "ogle" my friends boobs at any point when we've all been together. He is a "boob man" & hers are hard to miss.

 

Edited to add: there's no way I could even begin to control what my husband looks at. I'm not sure how I was ever supposed to control that.

[66Charger]

After reading MJA post, I feel i have to rebut my own post.

 

At the end of the day, this isnt about boobs or sexual jokes. It is about trust and trust should NEVER be minimized. If their relationship dynamic was that sexual banter was ok, then that is probaly because rodeo had trust that her H would not take it to far.

 

There should not have been a need to discuss boundaries.

 

There are some things you just dont do and there should not be excuses.

 

Hopefully he gets it and doesnt use the flimsy logic that I did.

 

No guy would buy any excuse, if he read a text that said "send me a picture of your dick"

Edited June 29, 2016 by 66Charger

[usa1ah]

Please let me clarify something: my husband didn't "ogle" my friends boobs at any point when we've all been together. He is a "boob man" & hers are hard to miss.

 

Edited to add: there's no way I could even begin to control what my husband looks at. I'm not sure how I was ever supposed to control that.

 

 

 

I am sorry, I thought you said the 3 of you knew he had a thing for hers, all breast really.

 

 

If I miss read that I am sorry.

[usa1ah]

Please let me clarify something: my husband didn't "ogle" my friends boobs at any point when we've all been together. He is a "boob man" & hers are hard to miss.

 

Edited to add: there's no way I could even begin to control what my husband looks at. I'm not sure how I was ever supposed to control that.

 

 

 

Not saying control what he looks at but talking about how it make you feel when he does start to stare. Did you never catch him at it?

 

 

Sorry, but with there conversation, he had been looking at them for a good bit to get to the point he was at and your BF knew it.

[usa1ah]

After reading MJA post, I feel i have to rebut my own post.

 

At the end of the day, this isnt about boobs or sexual jokes. It is about trust and trust should NEVER be minimized. If their relationship dynamic was that sexual banter was ok, then that is probaly because rodeo had trust that her H would not take it to far.

 

There should not have been a need to discuss boundaries.

 

There are some things you just dont do and there should not be excuses.

 

Hopefully he gets it and doesnt use the flimsy logic that I did.

 

No guy would buy any excuse, if he read a text that said "send me a picture of your dick"

 

 

 

Sorry but not true. I was in the military and have seen first hand how comfortable people get with each other hanging out all the time when it comes to sex. I have seen a guy whip his out and an others wife take a picture all in fun. Also another wife flashing the group because of something that was said. I have seen things form one end of the spectrum to the other and try and take the middle ground. What is ok with one couple would never fly with the next.

 

 

The issue is that he wanted to keep it a secret from his wife and the lying about it afterwards. Yes he screwed up, this is result, what lead to this is what needs to be fixed.

Edited June 29, 2016 by usa1ah

[Mrs. John Adams]

Sorry but not true. I was in the military and have seen first hand how comfortable people get with each other hanging out all the time when it comes to sex. I have seen a guy whip his out and an others wife take a picture all in fun. Also another wife flashing the group because of something that was said. I have seen things form one end of the spectrum to the other and try and take the middle ground. What is ok with one couple would never fly with the next.

 

 

The issue is that he wanted to keep it a secret from his wife and the lying about it afterwards. Yes he screwed up, this is result, what lead to this is what needs to be fixed.

 

Rodeo has made it very clear that they only see each other once a year. There is sexual banter... No one has ever crossed lines.

 

We are not judging their behavior and whether or not we approve or disapprove. It is none of our business.

 

The issue here is the husbands behavior behind his wife's back. I would not call it cheating... But it was inappropriate and so far over rodeos line that it may have jeopardized their relationship.

 

To me ... She is over reacting... But it doesn't matter what I think. At the end of the day this is about rodeo and her husband. I cannot dictate how she should feel. She feels the way she feels about it.

 

It sounds to me like she and her husband are working on it and that's all the matters.

 

I do believe that this friendship with the other couple is permanently damaged and will probably be over. Rodeo will have a hard time ever trusting the other wife... And with good reason.