Where I'm at...

[Dancewithme]

Is happiness gained at the expense of another true happiness? Knowing that you are not the BS's favorite person, and she is tolerating this arrangement for the semblance of having an intact family, how does that really square with you, deep in your heart?

 

If this relationship is not giving you everything you feel you deserve, why not leave it? Leave this MM and his family alone, find someone who is proud to be with you openly, without breaking another heart in the process.

 

You have two other lovers, so it sounds like you have no problem meeting other men.

 

I am trying not to judge here, but why? Why is this man worth all of this? Why is his wife's anguish worth all of this? Why do we have to have everything we want, others be damned?

[SolG]

I admire your desire to live authentically and honestly. I'm glad everyone knows the truth in your situation and can make choices based on that truth....

 

...In the show sister wives every single one of those women married the guy knowing that there were going to be other wives and they wanted that. Your MMs wife didn't know when she married her husband that this is what she was going to get.

 

Thank you. This is very true. His W did not expect this. But we all change over the course of years.

 

Like others, I appreciate the air of openness the three of you are striving for. You and the W are showing some other-level type of maturity by sitting down together. I have to ask, though, if by "everything" you really do mean "everything". Not as in details, but as in things like the joint bank account. She's aware of that?

 

Also, I see what the MM is trying to get at in regards to the kids and teaching tolerance. BUT, I think that works if everyone is truly happy, including their mother. She's obviously not 100% there, given her request for discretion. So I think the MM is being a little naive about this. The world is mostly revolving around him, not the three of you equally. I would fear that's the lesson they eventually learn.

 

She knows of the account. He and I make an equal contribution every pay and the funds are used to facilitate our travel, etc, to see each other. Money is not an issue for either of us so it's not a case of anyone going without (anything at all) to accommodate us.

 

I too agree he is being a bit naive. That having been said... I'm very guilty of that too. Maybe still am. I'd like to think/hope that there will come a time where we all exist at least amicably (although I don't know exactly in what form yet).

 

What I'm afraid of for SolG who I've grown fond of over the years here, is eventually his wife will join in, find herself an additional lover, the safe guards of marriage isn't in place. I fear that mm will view the set up alot different and want to change the rules leaving SolG out.

 

Otherwise whatever kind of relationship adults conduct and are happy in its great.

 

Also at the end of the day of the wife had her say and decided this could work for her, anyone judging SolG or any of them for that matter is wrong, no one has the right to push their moral standards of what marriage and relationship should be to them.

 

SolG if your happy then I'm happy for you.

 

Thank you DKT3 :-) I too have become quite fond of you through following your story over the years.

 

I really don't know if his W will ever seek others. I suspect not... but who knows!? And he is very protective of her, so it is possible that this would fundamentally change things.

 

As an aside, I have given him the right of veto over my other relationships. BUT, only at the start. I discuss with him someone I am thinking of seeing on a regular basis, and he at that point can object. And he has, generally on the grounds of compatibility with 'us'. But once I begin to see someone regularly, it is longer within his province and I solely dictate how it develops. Although I do keep him informed. All good thus far.

 

In the long term Sol, I do hope he is worth all the heartache and trauma you have been through.

 

His wife might change her mind at any time..... early days yet.

 

Will you be happy to have concubine status for the rest of your life?

 

Poppy

 

Thank you Poppy. It is early days!

 

My first instinct was actually to bristle at the term 'concubine'. But I've thought about it more... and you're right! Even if I don't feel like a concubine, the reality is that is how I will be perceived. He has a W, therefore I as not a W must perpetually be other/lower in status in the eyes of many.

 

I don't care... but I do. If that makes sense. And it certainly something I will have to deal with. How will I deal with the ignoramus, or even the well-meaning sympathy giver rubbing that in my face? I'll let you know.

 

Is happiness gained at the expense of another true happiness? Knowing that you are not the BS's favorite person, and she is tolerating this arrangement for the semblance of having an intact family, how does that really square with you, deep in your heart?

 

If this relationship is not giving you everything you feel you deserve, why not leave it? Leave this MM and his family alone, find someone who is proud to be with you openly, without breaking another heart in the process.

 

You have two other lovers, so it sounds like you have no problem meeting other men.

 

I am trying not to judge here, but why? Why is this man worth all of this? Why is his wife's anguish worth all of this? Why do we have to have everything we want, others be damned?

 

MM's W's first response when they had the DDay lite back in 2013, and then again this time around when she found out the whole truth was to tell him he was free to go and be with me. That despite her hurt she would cooperatively coparent and try to move on amicably.

 

On both occasions MM said no, he doesn't want to leave. He loves her and the family and wants to stay. On the first occasion he was telling me concurrently that this was just a ruse to allow him to continue to seek an amicable separation arrangement... but it was actually the truth that he had not fully realised himself. He does love her and he does want to stay. And he reaffirmed this to her this time around with her knowing everything; he still loves her and wants to stay. BUT this time around, he also told her that he loves me and wants me in his life as a partner as well. And ultimately she made the decision and agreed to try.

 

Yes, this could be construed as coercion. But we would also do well to remember that his W was prepared to leave and was convinced to stay by the argument that he loves her. Not by an argument that he would forever be true, or that monogamy is the gold standard of commitment and that he will exhibit that to the end of days. No. She was convinced by his argument, his words, and his actions (revelations, intimacy, family time, etc) that he does indeed love her and his behaviour reinforced that he is where he wants to be.

 

And my messages have echoed that sentiment. I do not need him to leave. Indeed, I do not want him to. I am content in knowing that he loves his W and family, and loves me too. And that he is committed to both. Why should I lament this when it is truth? In fact I celebrate this truth and openness when there have been so many hurtful lies.

 

And yes, his W is a better person than he or I in this. We acknowledge that there was probably a better way. I am nothing it not selfish.

 

There is no 'semblance' of an intact family, there IS an intact family. It may just not fit the conventional normative description but it IS intact. And believe me it is strong. It has already withstood tests that many will never fathom.

 

I have no answer to the question as to whether his W's anguish is worth this other than to say that I would do it again. As Poppy notes, this hasn't been a stroll in the park for me either. And MM would be able to tell you his own tales of woe.

 

But at the end of the day... I think three relatively naive and sheltered people have reached a greater level of consciousness and awareness about themselves and others. That in and of itself is worth something.

 

But who keeps a ledger at the end of the day...

[Scarlett94]

Thanks for the update SolG. If it works for you three then I'm happy for you. I've read all your threads, you're a fascinating person to be honest. I'm amazed at how much you have changed on what you want from this relationship.

[Lobe]

I too agree he is being a bit naive. That having been said... I'm very guilty of that too. Maybe still am. I'd like to think/hope that there will come a time where we all exist at least amicably (although I don't know exactly in what form yet)...

 

I offered my WH an open relationship after d-day. It was a desperate attempt to "rise above" the situation and be a "modern" woman. I was terrified of losing the man I had built a life with, and I was willing (in theory) to let it ride, like your MM's BS, with some provisos, the first one being the NO ONE knew about it. Basically, I viewed her participation in our marriage as a hallway WH could throw his weiner down at lunchtime, but I would be the one he spent all holidays and Christmases with, our children would not be introduced to her, and neither his family nor mine would ever know of her.

 

The highest level of naïveté prize here goes not to you or your MM but his BS, who is trying to compartmentalize your existence, and expects her WH to do the same. Keeping up appearances means that your relationship stays underground lest the last shred of dignity this woman has for herself be ripped from her broken betrayed heart. For me, the thought lasted less than a day before I recanted my offer and I would not be surprised at her magnanimity failing shortly after you cease to be a fictional character.

 

Honestly, the most interesting piece of this scenario for me is the difference between how your MM responded compared to mine. My husband was the one who refused. He said there was no way he would ask me to humiliate myself like that, ever. He said he wouldn't be able to deal with the pain on my face every time he came back from being with her, no way to deal with her desire to go public, which she had pressed for more and more as time went on when they were out for lunch, but WH always avoided touching her in case someone would see him.

 

It sounds like the only reason you get to have outside partners is because he doesn't want to be a hypocrite. Based on what you've said, he wouldn't tolerate your other partners if he didn't have to, and should his BS pull a fast one and get her own side piece it would throw him for a loop. Are your spare men a power play?

 

I agree with those here who are able to read between the lines and pick up on the fact that you want more than BS is willing to give and more importantly than MM is willing to push her to agree to. You're still second fiddle and they have you on an extremely short leash here but I feel like it's only a matter of time before the cat fight starts. It must make your MM feel like the most special human being on the planet, and I've got to be honest here, I think it's only a matter of time before he adds another concubine...

 

Have you considered what Option C is, should BS decide she can't in fact accept you into their marriage? If she turfs him, do you expect to continue the relationship with him? Would you want exclusivity at that point for both of yourselves, or would he be encouraged to continue seeking extra partners as you have? What if BS changes her mind and calls off the open marriage or keeps throwing new demands or conditions on how you conduct yourself? What if BS gets a boyfriend and MM can't handle that (which I can almost guarantee he won't.)

 

I worry, ultimately, that at the end of all this fancy footwork you are still being left with breadcrumbs, and heartache. I worry that you're passing up opportunities to have deeper relationships with eligible men for the BS's leftovers. I worry that you invest all this time and money and once it begins to be the new "normal" MM decides that the affair excitement has fizzled be ause it's no longer forbidden.

 

I hope things work out for you the way you're hoping, and the only thing I ask is that you please be sensitive to the BS's requests and respect the fact that she and the children she shares with her husband come first and she therefore gets to call all the shots, period. The more respectful you are of her position, the more you honour agreements and conditions she sets out, the more likely it is that she will come to trust that you're not trying to take her husband away, and the more likely it will become that this arrangement succeeds.

 

Good luck!

[Sub]

I can understand how the first face-to-face would be nerve-racking. There is the chance that it changes things a little for each of you. Each of your presences become more "real" to the other, so to speak. Whether that's bad or good is the million-dollar question.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I offered my WH an open relationship after d-day. It was a desperate attempt to "rise above" the situation and be a "modern" woman. I was terrified of losing the man I had built a life with, and I was willing (in theory) to let it ride, like your MM's BS, with some provisos, the first one being the NO ONE knew about it. Basically, I viewed her participation in our marriage as a hallway WH could throw his weiner down at lunchtime, but I would be the one he spent all holidays and Christmases with, our children would not be introduced to her, and neither his family nor mine would ever know of her.

 

Good luck!

 

My H and I also tried an open marriage for 4 months after we discovered we were each seeing someone else. We were both very in love with these other people and neither of us wanted to force the other to end it and constantly monitor the other. It was the best and worst thing. The best was that we each got to really see the other person for who they are and so now we are still married and do not pine for the one that got away. The worst was that it is incredibly painful and upsetting to see your spouse happy about someone else, dating and being intimate with someone else and then watch them go through the inevitable breakup.

 

OW did not deal with it well. She eventually gave my H a pick her or me, started being mean, playing games and that relationship ended badly. Then H decided it was time for mine to end as well and put massive pressure on xMM to tell his wife, which he eventually did. I was already putting the pick her or me pressure on xMM so it was ending anyway.

 

It's not for everyone but sometimes you have to play these things out in life. I sure as heck think its better than xMM situation, where she was monitoring his emails and phone logs and he was sneaking around to covertly contact me. If you've read my posts, his behavior and deceit continues today. Meanwhile I saw my husband curled up in a ball over this woman in massive pain, so I do believe him when he says he has no desire to go back to that place.

 

I also have no desire to return to that dark place.

 

I hope it works out for the OP. It wasn't for me but she seems happy.

[Maggie888]

How does this relationship offer you the "security" emotionally that you speak of?

 

At any moment if BS decides she cant tolerate it, wont MM have to end (or take underground) the relationship with you?

 

As such, isnt the entire legitimacy of the relationship hinging on the BS.

 

That doesnt sound very secure to me. Almost like your love is on an emotional tightrope so to speak.

[whichwayisup]

I really don't know if his W will ever seek others. I suspect not... but who knows!? And he is very protective of her, so it is possible that this would fundamentally change things.

 

Yeah right now it is working, but when the day comes (and it will!!) when she meets someone else, starts changing her focus and falling for another man, HE will freak out about it and not want to share her. It may be it's OK for him to do as he pleases but not his wife. Time will tell and it will be a huge test to your R with him.

[ladydesigner]

Yeah right now it is working, but when the day comes (and it will!!) when she meets someone else, starts changing her focus and falling for another man, HE will freak out about it and not want to share her. It may be it's OK for him to do as he pleases but not his wife. Time will tell and it will be a huge test to your R with him.

 

Yep it happened to me. WH cheated and I did meet someone else and decided to do exactly as my WH did. He was more upset about my A than I was about his.

[Scarlett94]

Sol how did the meeting go?

[Bufo]

I'm going to venture a guess that 90+% of the OW who post here would love to have such an open and easy relationship with MM and his wife. If this unusual relationship is working for all of you don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good. If it's not working for you because you think it's too constrained or clandestine, end it. He's not leaving her and she's not leaving him.

[Kissproof]

This situation sounds like a hot ass mess. I don't think the wife will want to continue this foolishness long term. This man must have a magical penis cause there is no effin way she should agree to something that wasnt done at the outset. She must not giveva damn about herself. I hope she takes her kids and kicks his loser ass to the curb.

[Forever broken]

Wow, where are you guys located? I wish I had that. Not only did I end up with broken heart, but I lost my friends, my dignity, respect from my friends, coworkers and oh yeah of cos the married man who claimed to love me. And now I live in fear of his wife embarrassing me at work.

[Scarlett94]

So how did the meeting go SolG? I hope you are happy ☺

[SolG]

So how did the meeting go SolG? I hope you are happy ☺

 

Hi guys. No, I'm not happy. The meeting was.... hostile. I can understand that, but I guess in my naivety I was expecting something... less so. I really wasn't expecting seething fury.

 

His W expressed very very clearly that if we breach her terms--that is go 'too public'--she will severely limit his access to the kids and also tell them why from her perspective why he can't see them anymore. So we can see each other, but I'm still predominantly a secret.

 

She also threw a litany of other objections at me I was totally unprepared for. That apparently I was cold to her at a function once before the A even started, that a I was more attentive to one of their children over the other. That if she is being monogomous with MM so should I.

 

I'm still sorting through my feelings about this. I've been traveling a lot for work and haven't really had time to fully reflect.

 

MM keeps telling me we can work through it together. That we just need to prove we're not going to abandon her. But I'm not so sure that's possible.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

I'm not sure why you're surprised... You two have hardly given her a choice in the matter... She's agreed to your 'open' situation under duress - for lack of a better word.

 

The question is how long will you continue to have your "relationship" terms dictated to you? I suppose the answer is: for as long as he lets her.

[Miss Clavel]

Hi guys. No, I'm not happy. The meeting was.... hostile. I can understand that, but I guess in my naivety I was expecting something... less so. I really wasn't expecting seething fury.

 

His W expressed very very clearly that if we breach her terms--that is go 'too public'--she will severely limit his access to the kids and also tell them why from her perspective why he can't see them anymore. So we can see each other, but I'm still predominantly a secret.

 

She also threw a litany of other objections at me I was totally unprepared for. That apparently I was cold to her at a function once before the A even started, that a I was more attentive to one of their children over the other. That if she is being monogomous with MM so should I.

 

I'm still sorting through my feelings about this. I've been traveling a lot for work and haven't really had time to fully reflect.

 

MM keeps telling me we can work through it together. That we just need to prove we're not going to abandon her. But I'm not so sure that's possible.

 

 

uh, he still sleeps with his wife? he still has sex with her?

 

i have a feeling that if and when her children find out she will either leave him or throw him out. and with the number of people that already know, according to your poasts, it won't be long before someone slips up and her children come to her in tears. any mother that sees something like this affecting her children will have to act.

Edited September 25, 2016 by Miss Clavel

[BluesPower]

I think you can work this out, who knows.

 

I know that I will get criticized for this, but I would be happy to be in this type of arrangement.

 

I don't think it would ever happen because my wife gets totally out of her mind with jealously about me and other women. I never really wanted to cheat but when things got really bad I just lost my mind, and started sleeping around a ton.

 

I make no excuses for my cheating, but I did really like some of the women, I won't lie about that. If I was in the proper situation, I could still have 2 or maybe 3 girlfriends. I enjoyed all of them, I was never in love so to speak, but I did enjoy spending time with them. I would be totally happy if my wife wanted to take another lover as well.

 

My wife never when without sex, or anything else that she needed. But now that she is a sober person I do feel that she deservers a shot at being a real wife, and I am willing to give that to her.

 

Also, for now, she want a traditional marriage and I am will to give it a try.

 

I think that if you are happy then keep it up. Stop when you are not. Maybe you and the wife can work some of this stuff out and both of you can feel better about it.

 

I for one wish you well.

[Tayla]

I'm not sure why you're surprised... You two have hardly given her a choice in the matter... She's agreed to your 'open' situation under duress - for lack of a better word.

 

The question is how long will you continue to have your "relationship" terms dictated to you? I suppose the answer is: for as long as he lets her.

 

^^^This^^ certainly is food for thought.

 

Sounds like most negotiations stall when sides are looking at their own interest and not the benefit of all involved.

 

Rarely have I seen open marriages work .. It would take a special kind of looking the other way ..

 

I'm sorry to hear ( read) that hurt filled measures escalated.

 

It's your decision to remain. If I had a friend that is enduring this for love and familiarity I 'd more then likely ask her to step aside.

[elaine567]

Hi guys. No, I'm not happy. The meeting was.... hostile. I can understand that, but I guess in my naivety I was expecting something... less so. I really wasn't expecting seething fury.

 

His W expressed very very clearly that if we breach her terms--that is go 'too public'--she will severely limit his access to the kids and also tell them why from her perspective why he can't see them anymore. So we can see each other, but I'm still predominantly a secret.

 

She also threw a litany of other objections at me I was totally unprepared for. That apparently I was cold to her at a function once before the A even started, that a I was more attentive to one of their children over the other. That if she is being monogomous with MM so should I.

 

I'm still sorting through my feelings about this. I've been traveling a lot for work and haven't really had time to fully reflect.

 

MM keeps telling me we can work through it together. That we just need to prove we're not going to abandon her. But I'm not so sure that's possible.

 

The only person that is truly happy here is your MM who is cake-eating.

He has two women dangling on a string, and both are feeling disrespected and are angry at each other when the anger should really be directed at the MM who engineered this whole situation.

He has the best of both worlds, he on one hand is the respectable family man, and on the other at work he has a loyal companion who has his back and who he can sleep with too...

What's not to like?

Of course he wants this to work, of course he wants to keep the status quo. He has two plates spinning, and it is his job to make sure that they both keep spinning.

 

She is NEVER going to allow you to be legit, as she has her face, her good name and most importantly her kids to consider and YOU are never going to accept being his dirty secret for life, are you? Yes you can swan around at work and at conferences as his "mistress", but that doesn't really cut it for you. That gives you no clout, no real importance.

YOU are desperately trying to legitimise it, by broadcasting it, but you cannot do that more widely without his say so and he doesn't really want his cover blown to all and sundry. He has his status as the "wonderful husband and father" to consider here, he doesn't want to be demoted to cheater, and be the subject of gossip in his community.

 

It is unsustainable.

He is hurting you both immeasurably.

What the three of you are doing atm is a "solution", but it is not the final one. I guess that will involve some parting of the ways or maybe a true acceptance of the status quo.

[elaine567]

She also threw a litany of other objections at me I was totally unprepared for....That if she is being monogomous with MM so should I.

By you sleeping with her husband, she is effectively sleeping with you, so she needs to feel safe, she does not want to compromise her own health.

It is not an actually an unreasonable request that you remain monogamous in the circumstances.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I think you can work this out, who knows.

 

I know that I will get criticized for this, but I would be happy to be in this type of arrangement.

 

I don't think it would ever happen because my wife gets totally out of her mind with jealously about me and other women. I never really wanted to cheat but when things got really bad I just lost my mind, and started sleeping around a ton.

 

I make no excuses for my cheating, but I did really like some of the women, I won't lie about that. If I was in the proper situation, I could still have 2 or maybe 3 girlfriends. I enjoyed all of them, I was never in love so to speak, but I did enjoy spending time with them. I would be totally happy if my wife wanted to take another lover as well.

 

My wife never when without sex, or anything else that she needed. But now that she is a sober person I do feel that she deservers a shot at being a real wife, and I am willing to give that to her.

 

Also, for now, she want a traditional marriage and I am will to give it a try.

 

I think that if you are happy then keep it up. Stop when you are not. Maybe you and the wife can work some of this stuff out and both of you can feel better about it.

 

I for one wish you well.

 

I actually could have a relationship with more than one man (and have) but I don't share. Not many men would want that kind of arrangement.

[imsosad]

The MM cares about himself and isn't willing to make a choice. Lucky for him,he doesn't have to. You are both willing to play along with this moderm day harem. I find it sad that both you and his wife are upset with each other. It's him you should be upset with. He doesn't care enough about either one of you to actually give up what he's getting from the other.

I think it's disrespectful to both of you. She doesnt seem to be consenting,rather enduring this situation. She has a life with him, a home, children. Why do you agree to be a dirty second best secret? What if she forces the issue and says no more? He could drop you in an instant. Dont you want an open, honest,straightforward relationship with a guy who is committed to you?

I'd like to meet the two men who would agree to a similar arrangement.

[MidnightBlue1980]

The MM cares about himself and isn't willing to make a choice. Lucky for him,he doesn't have to. You are both willing to play along with this moderm day harem. I find it sad that both you and his wife are upset with each other. It's him you should be upset with. He doesn't care enough about either one of you to actually give up what he's getting from the other.

I think it's disrespectful to both of you. She doesnt seem to be consenting,rather enduring this situation. She has a life with him, a home, children. Why do you agree to be a dirty second best secret? What if she forces the issue and says no more? He could drop you in an instant. Dont you want an open, honest,straightforward relationship with a guy who is committed to you?

I'd like to meet the two men who would agree to a similar arrangement.

 

No men would agree to that, ever.

 

I agree that the wife has a right to insist OP is monogamous. However, I would never in a million years agree to be faithful to someone not being faithful to me.

[imsosad]

I want to add,that an open relationship is a valid option,imo, but only when it reflects the true wishes of all parties. Here it seems both women would prefer an exclusive relationship.and are swallowing a bitter pill because MM doesnt want to give up his cake eating. An open relationship.under duress is disrespectful. In this case, it seems to be working for one person only,but he seems to be the person who counts.

MB, I also get why the wife needs OP to be monogamous with her H, but if it were her writing here,i'd tell her to keep herself safe and use protection. It's too important an issue to rely on anyone else. It seems ridiculous that OP is asked to be faithful to someone who isnt faithful to her, I'll take a guess and say maybe the wife is projecting and displacing a bit and would like her H,not the OP, to be monogamous.

Edited September 25, 2016 by imsosad