Where I'm at...

[SolG]

I think everyone will hate on me for saying this, but good for you.

 

I sometimes wish I could be is a similar situation myself. I could/have really care about several women at one time. I am just not going to cheat anymore to do it.

 

Not only do I enjoy the variety of sex, but I just really enjoy spending time with different women. They all, or the ones that I have been with, have interesting points of view, they like to do different things it is just a lot of fun. The problem is always the same, one or more of them get this possessive love thing going and get upset about something. Sigh...

 

But in your case I think you have everything going the right direction, I say enjoy life and kudos to you...

 

Thank you for your well wishes.

 

Just really curious but is this really the new norm? Non-monogamy? I mean, I am very happy for SolG if this works for everyone in the picture. It's not about the setup, it's the lack of hurt and betrayal that is what's important.

 

But, personally, this will never work for me. But with this day and age, where monogamy (in reality) is becoming less and less practiced, should us who have really high expectations of trust, exclusivity, monogamy, family and emotional security should tweak our standards? I haven't had a stable relationship. My parents separated when I was a kid, and I grew up in a hostile environment, so I am really craving for someone who I can be with, who will choose me, prioritize me, who will make me feel secure, make me his only option etc etc.

 

But whenever I visit this site, my hope diminishes every single day.....

 

Please don't let my story disillusion you. Just because others practice relationships in a way that does not accord with your values does not make your expectations any less valid or special or worthy of being met.

 

Rather I would encourage you to view it as an example of people going to extraordinary lengths to accommodate the needs of those they love.

 

I was prepared to be monogamous... although I'm glad that ultimately I do not have to be. MM's W is prepared to have a poly H. MM and his W are prepared to see me satisfied in numerous ways. I'm prepared for MM and his W to have a truly meaningful R in all senses of the word.

 

What that should show you is that love can be incredibly generous. When people love each other and are open all things are possible.

 

And if monogamous true love is what you seek... then why not aspire to that? Don't sell your dreams short. I think you'll find many others that share your view.

 

 

Human beings are not monogamous by nature. Most people are as faithful as their options. When I tell my tale of woe to my friends, they really can't relate because they are tend to be teachers and/or just not interact with men whereas I do a ton of networking for my business. I meet people constantly. The flip side is I see a lot of women on FB looking up people they dated in high school and getting really involved, dreaming of the past and getting into trouble. I cannot relate as I have zero interest in some loser from 20+ years ago.

 

It is fun to be out there and date and go crazy but it gets old. It is nice to be in a relationship with the same person and have that comfort level. I've learned to just not even go there with new people. I am determined to prevent this from ever happening again. I have a lot of rules for myself to make sure.

 

The 'by nature' argument is a big fat cop out. We are humans... we have a prefrontal cortex that allows us to make reasoned decisions. Reverting to base state to lie and cheat is a choice. Not an accident. We don't get to abrogate that responsibility. We're actually better than that.

 

I completely get your perspective. Empathise even. But I believe you do need to go there. Everyone you invite into your life deserves to know who you are and your intentions. And you in your gloriousness! And you them in theirs.

 

Rules are a substitute for intimacy. I'll just espouse this rule for this circumstance so I can default to an outcome without discussing what it really means. You do x and I'll respond with y...

 

When the truth is there is always so much more nuance! So much more truth and vulnerability. On all fronts. It is laying youself bare and rife for rejection. It is rejecting when the other refuses to accept your reality. Or accepting that their truth is counter to your own.

 

At its heart is reconciling BOTH truths and being open and vulnerable with both.

 

Hi thank you for your response.....I've thought about this often. It's a different way to look at relationships...

 

You are very welcome.

 

I always had, and still have, plenty of options to be unfaithful. I chose to remain monogamous, even when my WH cheated.

 

And this speaks to the ever present reality of choice.

[Scarlett94]

I hope you are doing well SolG and Merry Christmas!

[Poppy47]

Good to hear from you again Sol.

 

I think the trick is to first know yourself well.

 

Poppy.

[Poppy47]

Human beings are not monogamous by nature. Most people are as faithful as their options. When I tell my tale of woe to my friends, they really can't relate because they are tend to be teachers and/or just not interact with men whereas I do a ton of networking for my business. I meet people constantly. The flip side is I see a lot of women on FB looking up people they dated in high school and getting really involved, dreaming of the past and getting into trouble. I cannot relate as I have zero interest in some loser from 20+ years ago.

 

It is fun to be out there and date and go crazy but it gets old. It is nice to be in a relationship with the same person and have that comfort level. I've learned to just not even go there with new people. I am determined to prevent this from ever happening again. I have a lot of rules for myself to make sure.

 

A bit off topic ... you mentioned your teacher friends cannot relate? Why do you think that is?

Poppy.

[SolG]

I thought I'd update y'all on the goings on in my world as we embark upon 2017.

 

Tbh Christmas felt a bit ****e this time around. I had lots of company... but still felt lonely because I didn't have the 'family' element on the day. I really missed our traditional gathering of xH, DD and I. Even though we brought that forward to Christmas Eve and it was lovely... the fact of spending Christmas Day itself as an orphan with fellow work orphans made me feel really alone. And I reflected on the fact that although I have an SO in MM... it will be many years to come before we can share a Christmas together... if ever.

 

Our NYE getaway was great. They always are. We went off grid camping and hiking for a few days. Awesome fun.

 

I'm now back home and back to work tomorrow. I'm taking time off to help MM move into his new apartment in a new city. The contract between his W and I is largely limited to scheduling agreements.

 

As of late January we'll be in three separate cities; MM in one, I in another, and his W and kids in another again. I'll travel to spend one night a week with him and also weekends where he can't travel home for various reasons. He'll endeavor to travel home to his W and children every weekend that he can. We'll continue to Skype and/or call everyday.

 

I've been accepted for another Masters program in a field that interests me greatly. MM is promoted with this move and is consideing a PhD candidacy.

 

I'm due to move to his city at the end of this year.

 

We are out to my family and they adore him. Our closest friends are also supportive. He's planning to introduce me to his father as his other partner soon.

 

Everything is going really well! Yet I feel... a certain something.

 

Some of it is related to the fact that MM and his W have decided to go slow on reintroducing sex into their M. I'm not going to go into the reasons why, but IMO they are valid. It's really wierd how I feel about this. Particularly after doing so much work to accept it. Now I feel anxious about their relationship, and also pressured to take up the slack.

 

And the whole scheduling thing is driving me nuts. Strange though it may seem, I had far more unfettered spontaneous acces to MM when we were a secret A. Now that's it's open it's all shared calendars and finding space.

 

*sigh*

 

I'm actually looking at overseas secondments in the second half of this year now. Partly because I feel like I need a rest and escape. Even though our secondments are intensive profit driven and entail long hours and little time off. It just seems like potentially a little bit of bliss to run away for awhile.

[Furious]

I thought I'd update y'all on the goings on in my world as we embark upon 2017.

 

Tbh Christmas felt a bit ****e this time around. I had lots of company... but still felt lonely because I didn't have the 'family' element on the day. I really missed our traditional gathering of xH, DD and I. Even though we brought that forward to Christmas Eve and it was lovely... the fact of spending Christmas Day itself as an orphan with fellow work orphans made me feel really alone. And I reflected on the fact that although I have an SO in MM... it will be many years to come before we can share a Christmas together... if ever.

 

Our NYE getaway was great. They always are. We went off grid camping and hiking for a few days. Awesome fun.

 

I'm now back home and back to work tomorrow. I'm taking time off to help MM move into his new apartment in a new city. The contract between his W and I is largely limited to scheduling agreements.

 

As of late January we'll be in three separate cities; MM in one, I in another, and his W and kids in another again. I'll travel to spend one night a week with him and also weekends where he can't travel home for various reasons. He'll endeavor to travel home to his W and children every weekend that he can. We'll continue to Skype and/or call everyday.

 

I've been accepted for another Masters program in a field that interests me greatly. MM is promoted with this move and is consideing a PhD candidacy.

 

I'm due to move to his city at the end of this year.

 

We are out to my family and they adore him. Our closest friends are also supportive. He's planning to introduce me to his father as his other partner soon.

 

Everything is going really well! Yet I feel... a certain something.

 

Some of it is related to the fact that MM and his W have decided to go slow on reintroducing sex into their M. I'm not going to go into the reasons why, but IMO they are valid. It's really wierd how I feel about this. Particularly after doing so much work to accept it. Now I feel anxious about their relationship, and also pressured to take up the slack.

 

And the whole scheduling thing is driving me nuts. Strange though it may seem, I had far more unfettered spontaneous acces to MM when we were a secret A. Now that's it's open it's all shared calendars and finding space.

 

*sigh*

 

I'm actually looking at overseas secondments in the second half of this year now. Partly because I feel like I need a rest and escape. Even though our secondments are intensive profit driven and entail long hours and little time off. It just seems like potentially a little bit of bliss to run away for awhile.

 

Gently....you're being boxed into your role, maybe that is the certain something you are feeling.

 

The secrecy of your relationship offered spontaneous excitement, now that you've been accepted into an open marriage the scheduling resembles a business like contract.

 

Once again and gently.... It seems your intellectual self and your emotional self are at odds. It's obvious your MM is the prominent person who comes first and what best suits his overall satisfaction.

 

I am also perplexed that your family supposedly adores him. If you were my daughter or sister or dear friend I'd be worried and concerned for you. I wonder if they know the full context of your relationship.

 

I like you SoIG, you are smart and I see you are a kind person who appreciates honesty and openness.

 

I find it perplexing that someone who is intelligent, educated and beautiful is ok with this arrangement.

 

I don't get it....but it's your life and it is what it is.

[ShatteredLady]

We're all this strange mix of nature & nurture & what we choose to tell ourselves. I have this image of what I want from life. It's mine!! I try to resist judgement of "Ahhh poor thing! She doesn't have MY idea of a happy life".

 

As Poppy said it truly comes down to really, truly knowing yourself AND what you want & need NOW...which isn't always the same as what you will want & need in a decades time. We are all a work in progress.

 

My only firm rule is, don't be complicit in others pain & misery. Just the basic, 'do what you like doing as long as your not hurting others or yourself'. It's often hard to know that last 'yourself' bit until you've tried it on for size AND walked around wearing it for a while.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I do understand you are very in love with this man and you want him under any circumstances. I think a lot of us probably relate to that on some level.

 

My thoughts are that I would be really careful before uprooting myself to move to his city - is that the city where you are moving him into? He has no real reason to stay there esp with his family in another city. I went through this with my ex, he separated and moved to my city and lived with me for 6 months, even got his own place....but......then he moved back to his hometown, supposedly lived in an apartment over his parents shop near his family, but I couldn't go there - ever. He could only come to me.

 

The whole new city, 2nd "wife" - it's probably pretty exciting to this guy, it's basically most married mens' fantasy. Plus I am sure he may be out there doing who knows what in this city where neither of his women lives. But all good things must come to an end and the last thing you want is to be stuck in some city and have him decide to move back near his wife and kids. Few men actually want two wives - double the work and responsibility. It may get old to him.

 

I'm not a guy, just going by what my husband constantly says. He had an OW for a while and liked the excitement but he had zero intentions of starting a 2nd serious relationship and he's pretty happy now being back in our marriage. He still actually says that it was pretty exciting though, to date again. And I went through it on my end, xmm just wanted cake on the side. So just be careful.

 

As for the sex with the wife thing - unless she is this radical, progressive woman, there is only one reason in the world why she would go back into a sexual relationship with her husband at this point and that is to fix her marriage and undo this mess. I really and truly think 99% of females reading this would agree with that statement. Otherwise they would either divorce the guy or enjoy his money while living their own separate life. No one in the world would start sleeping with him again. She may want to get her husband back and you will have a tough time competing as she is his wife legally and you must read here all the time how that is a bond most men don't end easily.

 

Not being mean or harsh, as I said I am no angel but I'm a wife and I feel like I know men now. I just see this as a dangerous road for you.

Edited January 8, 2017 by MidnightBlue1980

[imsosad]

As for the sex with the wife thing - unless she is this radical, progressive woman, there is only one reason in the world why she would go back into a sexual relationship with her husband at this point and that is to fix her marriage and undo this mess. I really and truly think 99% of females reading this would agree with that statement. Otherwise they would either divorce the guy or enjoy his money while living their own separate life. No one in the world would start sleeping with him again. She may want to get her husband back and you will have a tough time competing as she is his wife legally and you must read here all the time how that is a bond most men don't end easily.

 

I don't think it is a progressive/radical arrangement at all. On the contrary.

Can you imagine two men agreeing to an arrangement that revolves around one woman's needs? Two women accommodating one man,otoh, has been seen before so many times.

I agree with MB on everything else. His wife reintroducing sex in to their relationship could be a sign that she is ready to make profound changes in their marriage, and that might involve insisting on monogamy.

Might be just my interpretation, but I sensed a certain gloom in your post. Don't make huge changes unless you are positive it is what you want.

[whichwayisup]

I thought I'd update y'all on the goings on in my world as we embark upon 2017.

 

Tbh Christmas felt a bit ****e this time around. I had lots of company... but still felt lonely because I didn't have the 'family' element on the day. I really missed our traditional gathering of xH, DD and I. Even though we brought that forward to Christmas Eve and it was lovely... the fact of spending Christmas Day itself as an orphan with fellow work orphans made me feel really alone. And I reflected on the fact that although I have an SO in MM... it will be many years to come before we can share a Christmas together... if ever.

 

Our NYE getaway was great. They always are. We went off grid camping and hiking for a few days. Awesome fun.

 

I'm now back home and back to work tomorrow. I'm taking time off to help MM move into his new apartment in a new city. The contract between his W and I is largely limited to scheduling agreements.

 

As of late January we'll be in three separate cities; MM in one, I in another, and his W and kids in another again. I'll travel to spend one night a week with him and also weekends where he can't travel home for various reasons. He'll endeavor to travel home to his W and children every weekend that he can. We'll continue to Skype and/or call everyday.

 

I've been accepted for another Masters program in a field that interests me greatly. MM is promoted with this move and is consideing a PhD candidacy.

 

I'm due to move to his city at the end of this year.

 

We are out to my family and they adore him. Our closest friends are also supportive. He's planning to introduce me to his father as his other partner soon.

 

Everything is going really well! Yet I feel... a certain something.

 

Some of it is related to the fact that MM and his W have decided to go slow on reintroducing sex into their M. I'm not going to go into the reasons why, but IMO they are valid. It's really wierd how I feel about this. Particularly after doing so much work to accept it. Now I feel anxious about their relationship, and also pressured to take up the slack.

 

And the whole scheduling thing is driving me nuts. Strange though it may seem, I had far more unfettered spontaneous acces to MM when we were a secret A. Now that's it's open it's all shared calendars and finding space.

 

*sigh*

 

I'm actually looking at overseas secondments in the second half of this year now. Partly because I feel like I need a rest and escape. Even though our secondments are intensive profit driven and entail long hours and little time off. It just seems like potentially a little bit of bliss to run away for awhile.

So you would have preferred the affair dynamic instead of regular relationship with him? You've lost the intensity and sneaking around/lying/hiding aspect now that it's out in the open and it doesn't feel the same.

 

Seems this R is now a poly relationship. With his wife's blessing on some level. IF you choose to continue on, learn how to accept that they will have sex and intimate moments and share him. Poly life isn't for most, it takes a well balanced, open minded folk to want to do this. I just hope you're not doing this just to hang onto him in hopes someday he'll eventually choose you over his wife and only be with you. He's made it clear that's not going to happen.

[somanymistakes]

I don't think it is a progressive/radical arrangement at all. On the contrary.

Can you imagine two men agreeing to an arrangement that revolves around one woman's needs?

 

Hang out in poly communities and it's not that rare actually. That whole subculture tends to be more common with computer geeks for some reason and other areas that are very male dominated, so because of the skewed ratio they end up with two or three guys to each girl.

 

It may also be because women with high-paying computer jobs are more independent and less willing to tie themselves down to just one person, I don't know.

[Poppy47]

Sol,

 

With respect, it seems to me, as I said once before, you are the recognised mistress and you will always have to fit in with his wife's schedule. You won't have the freedom to choose when you spend time with him.

 

It isn't much different to and affair, except it's out in the open.

 

Poppy.

[Chica80]

Could it be that now your life revolves around him? You schedule things around him. Compromise for him. His wife schedules and compromises for him as well......What does he have to compromise? What does he have to give up or change?

 

You seem to be a strong independent type of person. Yet all of these changes are for him? Just a thought?

[gettingstronger]

WOW! You have built an amazing professional life- one that provides you with lots of stability and flexibility-thats hard to do- kudos for you-

 

I don't understand why when you have so many options, you are choosing to be a bit player in someone else's gratuitous social experiment-

 

Do not move to his city-go overseas- have an amazing experience and reap the benefits of the career you have built-

 

Not today, but do start to extricate yourself from this relationship- it does not have any long term value for you-

[ladydesigner]

So you would have preferred the affair dynamic instead of regular relationship with him? You've lost the intensity and sneaking around/lying/hiding aspect now that it's out in the open and it doesn't feel the same.

 

Seems this R is now a poly relationship. With his wife's blessing on some level. IF you choose to continue on, learn how to accept that they will have sex and intimate moments and share him. Poly life isn't for most, it takes a well balanced, open minded folk to want to do this. I just hope you're not doing this just to hang onto him in hopes someday he'll eventually choose you over his wife and only be with you. He's made it clear that's not going to happen.

 

I wonder if it could be this as well, but the statement about the wife wanting to reintroduce sex does sound like she wants to work on the M. Maybe that is why the wife has been okay with the arrangement too because she has been detached.

[SolG]

I am also perplexed that your family supposedly adores him. If you were my daughter or sister or dear friend I'd be worried and concerned for you. I wonder if they know the full context of your relationship.

 

You have to remember furious that I've practiced non-monogamy pretty much my entire life. Those closest to me hardly expect me to start being conventional now!

 

However, the only ones in my family who know this started as an A are my brother and SIL. They said they had already suspected for a long time that we weren't just friends. MM and my brother have done a few lunches and get on very well.

 

My thoughts are that I would be really careful before uprooting myself to move to his city - is that the city where you are moving him into? He has no real reason to stay there esp with his family in another city.

 

The whole new city, 2nd "wife" - it's probably pretty exciting to this guy, it's basically most married mens' fantasy. Plus I am sure he may be out there doing who knows what in this city where neither of his women lives. But all good things must come to an end and the last thing you want is to be stuck in some city and have him decide to move back near his wife and kids. Few men actually want two wives - double the work and responsibility. It may get old to him.

 

Moving isn't an issue for me. I've moved cities eight times in my adult life, four in my childhood. I actually quite like the change and challenge. And yes, it will be a move to where MM will be; I've lived there before and already have a network.

 

However, rest assured that this move is not purely about MM. It also has distinct career advantages for me. I could have wrangled a move earlier to the city he has been in for the last three years, but it wouldn't have been to the benefit of my work and I'm not prepared to compromise on that front.

 

We're already forward planning and there is no question that he'll be moving back to the family in three to four years once this career phase is complete for him. I'm planning to stay on there until other opportunities present. So at this point we know we'll have two to three years in the same location, and we'll decide on the next phase when our paths become clearer.

 

WOW! You have built an amazing professional life- one that provides you with lots of stability and flexibility-thats hard to do- kudos for you-

 

I don't understand why when you have so many options, you are choosing to be a bit player in someone else's gratuitous social experiment-

 

Do not move to his city-go overseas- have an amazing experience and reap the benefits of the career you have built-

 

I'm planning to do both. Go overseas, then move when I get back.

 

Crap... gotta run to the gym for a class! Will write more later.

[SolG]

Home from the gym and then dinner with my daughter. Truly, this will be what I miss most when next I move. It's such a beautiful thing that transition to an adult relationship with your child. She's making her own life with her beau. Tonight we talked about what will happen if I end up overseas when she gets engaged. We agreed to Skype furiously and often regardless.

 

Her dad, my xH moved back here a couple of months ago. As you already know we had our normal Christmas celebration together, last week we three had lunch. Today they went to see a movie together. It's so heartening to know he's back here and able to be in person in her life far more often now, when I'm on the cusp of moving.

 

I know she's an adult now... but I still like the fact that at least one of us will be close by for her. The more I think about it, the more I think that after this upcoming move I'll try to find a higher level position back here once I have the requisite credentials and experience in a few years. Hopefully in time to be a fully engaged and supportive grandmama.

 

Well, that was a sentimental little sojourn that may seem irrelevant here... but it's actually not. I and MM are of a similar mind in this. Whilst we love each other and our R is important to us, so are our other Rs of different varieties, as are our respective careers. Our decisions will always take those factors into consideration as well.

 

That may mean we never make traditional commitments. However, we don't really see that as the most important element of an LTR for us.

 

So you would have preferred the affair dynamic instead of regular relationship with him? You've lost the intensity and sneaking around/lying/hiding aspect now that it's out in the open and it doesn't feel the same.

 

Seems this R is now a poly relationship. With his wife's blessing on some level. IF you choose to continue on, learn how to accept that they will have sex and intimate moments and share him. Poly life isn't for most, it takes a well balanced, open minded folk to want to do this. I just hope you're not doing this just to hang onto him in hopes someday he'll eventually choose you over his wife and only be with you. He's made it clear that's not going to happen.

 

Yes, I miss the spontaneity and freedom we had. But, oh no I do not miss the lies and deceit involved in an illicit A! IMO that is the most deleterious component. That's what eats at your very essence; the pretence and inauthenticity of your life when you're mired in an A.

 

Seriously the relief, even though we're still not completely open, of being able to openly talk about an SO with my nearest and dearest is liberating after the years of hiding. More than ample compensation.

 

To be clear about MM and his W and their decision about sex... I don't want to paint myself as a saint here because I'm not and I seriously struggled to be gracious in the knowledge that they were seeking to reintroduce the physical component of their M. I do experience jealousy, I'm human. Hyporicritically given the fact that I have other engagements I know!

 

However, my concern now is that they are going slow and have chosen to wait a bit longer yet. The root of my concern is that as a very sensual person, and even though I understand their reasoning I really don't understand how that works in application. They're committed to their marriage.. but don't want to have sex at the moment. I want us all to have our needs met and be content... and just don't see how that's possible with this strategy. But they assure me it's fine for them.

 

And the selfish side of me doesn't like being his only sex partner in these circumstances. If his W is the Madonna... then extrapolating it's obvious what I am. And even though I rationally know I'm so much more than that in our R, it's still an insecurity. And one I need to discuss fully with him soon.

[BluesPower]

I for one think you are really doing well.

 

Most importantly, I think you sound happy.

 

That is where most of us are hoping to get. Kudos.

[SolG]

Hey guys. A few developments in my life. Firstly, my daughter's bf told me he has ordered a ring! I'm very pleased for him/them as it's an exciting life phase. But tbh I also have some trepidation.

 

I know my dd has her head screwed on. That in all our heart to hearts she's expresssd that she knows that marriage and monogamy and parenthood are choices and that she has chosen her path consciously and deliberately. Idk... maybe it's just a mother's fear and doubt. Weird how I've experienced all that I have and ultimately feel enriched by it... but I just dream of a smooth and easy path for her. With none of the challenges I've had. But on the other hand knowing that she's a grown up now and grown ups and their Rs will inevitably bring some hardship at some point. *Sigh* I wish I could spare her but know that I can't.

 

My xH, dd's father, has finally mentioned the D word... divorce. He's seeing someone seriously for the first time since we separated. I'm a bit sad. This probably means the end of our friendship as we know it given most women aren't necessarily supportive on their partner maintaining contact with an ex. He's also still the sole beneficiary on my will... because I know and trust him implicitly to sort my affairs and look after our d from my estate... but with someone else in the picture I know I need to change that perspective. This will certainly change our family dynamic.

 

And I spent the last week travelling for work and helping MM move. He is suffocating imo with our current arrangement. Weekends at home, once a fortnight with me, and all the time outside of work inbetween skyping one or the other. His W and I get our own space, and he ends up with none. It's just not healthy imo. Something has to give. And to my way of thinking it has to be me. I need to give him time alone.

 

We were initially looking at getting together once a week but it would entail too much stress. I can't travel that often right now just for him around my work commitments. So it'll be once a fortnight with a Skype date on the alternate week. And we'll spend quality time on the phone on the other days.

 

We also discussed what will happen when I move to his current location. I don't really want to change much when that happens. He's dissappointed but understanding of the fact that I want to maintain my own place. For a start... I just want my own space. Secondly... I see other people and need the space for that. And thirdly, he has a W and children that need to be able to visit without my presence.

 

It's funny but I thought he would be ecstatic about this because to me it seems logical and sensible. But he is quite sensitive... even though all these initiatives ( giving him space, only visiting once a fortnight, having my own place once I move there) are really to his advantage imo.

 

There's a certain distance at the moment while we work through this. I hope it's resolved.

[Chica80]

Hi Sol. So the dynamic between your exH will change obv. But it doesn't necessarily have to change drastically. If he is with someone who understands those dynamics.

 

I have a friend who got remarried a couple of years ago. Her now husband and his ex wife have maintained a friendly relationship. Because they had children together. The ex wife was at their wedding, with her boyfriend. She even came to his birthday etc. At first I thought it was the most strangest thing. But then I came to understand how nice it is for their children. Because they are both and always will be a part of eachother's life.

[SolG]

Okay... I've truly agonised over whether to post this or not. Because it's really emotional and damning for me. But in the end I thought it would be disingenuous if I didn't share it with you.

 

We all three were actually in the same city for a day last week. It wasn't my rostered time with MM, but his W wanted to meet about some scheduling. I accepted and we had lunch; our first time together alone.

 

Well we had some food. And wine. And more food and more wine. We were actually making a bit of an occasion of it. But then... she shared a story with me.

 

Early in our A, after it graduated from an EA to PA and before DDay... MM and I were together at least 12 hours a day on work days. And away a lot on business travel sometimes a few days, but on other occasions up to a month or more totally immersed in each other.

 

His W told me that during that period she didn't know what was going on. All she knew was that her M was in trouble. Her H was withdrawn and unavailable. They stopped having sex, or having any real intimacy at all. And she did everything she could think of to fix things and couldn't understand why nothing worked.

 

Their youngest was at that time a toddler. She said she would put her down for her nap, and then shut herself in the walk in robe and sob. Wondering what was so wrong with her that her H didn't want or love her anymore.

 

In that respect she said DDay was a relief of sorts. She finally understood. And now that we are where we are now... she understands even more. Don't get me wrong, she still doesn't like me a whole lot, but she understands and accepts that MM loves us both amd we both love him. That overall it works and we're all largely content. Unlike how she was before without knowing.

 

Sitting there with this beautiful stoic woman telling me of her pain due to our A was very emotional for me. I did that. I caused that. I directly made this woman question her life, her sanity, her love. Me. She sat in a closet and cried as a direct result of my actions.

 

I scrubbed myself raw in the shower that night and cried myself to sleep. Guilt. Disgust. Contempt to my very soul.

 

Before that point I don't think I really understood what infidelity can do. This is what we do to other people when we make that choice.

[SolG]

Okay... not really understanding why I'm not getting a right royal deserved shellacing about now...

[OWAmy]

Because your lifestyle and situation is quite a bit different to the majority on these boards... not an affair, but the same issues as an affair and yes, you are still technically the "other woman".

 

I know quite a diverse group of people. One segment of these are from the fetish and alternative community. Really nice, kind and non-judgemental people. Most have open relationships, play partners, some are married, some are living in poly relationships and despite this openness very few of these succeed.

 

Yes - you and the husband have caused the wife pain. He has caused you pain. One thing seems glaringly obvious to me...one day either you or his wife are going to wake up to the realities of this situation and it's limitations.

[ThatsJustHowIRoll]

Okay... not really understanding why I'm not getting a right royal deserved shellacing about now...

 

Go back and read your early threads- everyone tried to tell you that you were doing this TO someone, but you just didn't care.

 

Now that you've both coerced her into an open arrangement and she smacked you in the face with a reality check of how you've hurt her, you suddenly feel regret? I'm not buying it. I think you don't like the reflection she held up for you, but I don't believe you've got empathy for her.

 

It's all been said and done - and you're right, what you've both put this woman through is horrific. But it doesn't change a damn thing. You'll continue regardless, so forgive me if I tell you your "guilt, disgust and contempt" feels hollow. Otherwise you'd want to correct it. And we all know you won't

 

What does it change? You're not going to stop hurting her or end the relationship with her husband, so what's left for any of us to say?

 

Was that the shellacing you wanted?

[somanymistakes]

Most open relationships fail.

 

Most closed relationships fail too.

 

We all hurt people, often without meaning to. We can attempt to learn from it and do better in the future. We can't undo the pain we caused someone in the past, and wallowing too much in that past rather than the present is self-absorbed and makes us blind to what we're doing right now.

 

Don't cling to past guilt in an attempt to prove to yourself that you are now more enlightened and understanding. Acknowledge the guilt, yes, and let that guide you in your future choices. Be better.