Marriage Counseling

[MidnightBlue1980]

Long story short - I'm married, he's married. I love you and all that, promises, the same old stuff you read here. Roommate marriage for years. DDay six months ago and LC since, we see each other. He was pretty horrible immediately when it ended. Basically we did not speak, it was very bad for me.

 

In May he suddenly resurfaced in my life wanting to be friends. Well, I see him so it's more like he reestablished contact. At first, I admit, I just was so happy as I had missed him so badly. I had a lot of anger and confused as he had just ghosted me in plain site for 6 months. He gave me a big story, still roommate marriage, very vague stuff - he said he still loved me but we couldn't be together. He really confused me a lot, I did not understand why he was back.

 

6 weeks later, I find out in May he started marriage counseling to fix the marriage and he's been lying to me, they started having sex in May. Now - I did not expect him to be celibate, he was the one who told me that - so the lie really hurt. He didn't say much when I tried to understand, other than to say he was wrong to keep saying he loved me. The whole thing is twisted. Way too much to type out. He claims he wants to work it out with his wife, he really had not asked me to meet again or anything but he says I love you and stuff - but is clear the he cannot leave right now. I do not know what he wants - he says to be friends.

 

I don't so much want someone to explain this guy to me as to explain this pattern. What will come next and what can I do to protect myself?

 

I love him. So it's tough. I'm back to trying LC. I am married and trying to just move on but it is hard. My H knows everything.

 

I just don't understand.

[Lobe]

You are his fallback plan if MC doesn't work. And if it doesn't work right away, your LC will give him the ego boost he wants to feel invincible. Cut him off. NC. If he wants to reconcile his marriage he can't do that with you in the picture. Ironically, I f the marriage is really and truly over, he can't see that with you in the picture. Tell him to call you only when and if his marriage is kaput. No notarized separation agreement? No you.

[loveisanaction]

Somebody on this forum had asked why is it that the married man keeps returning to an affair partner; one person on here answered it perfectly (sorry i can't remember the person who said it). She/he said that married men prefer to keep returning to a previous affair partner because it's easier to re-start an affair than it is to groom a new affair partner.

 

Midnighttblue, ask yourself, why did your married man come back? He's not leaving his wife, in fact they've started marriage counselling, he was even honest with you and told you that the both of you can never be together. So why do you think he's coming back? Be honest with yourself. Of course he's going to tell you that he loves you. He'll tell you what you want so that you will give him what he wants. He's not being confusing hon, you just aren't listening to what he is telling you.

 

Your married man is in counselling and is working on his marriage, why don't you want to do the same?

 

By staying with him you are acknowledging to him that you have accepted being his other woman. No matter what you say on here or to him, if you continue seeing him, you have agreed to remaining his affair partner.

[Shadowburn]

Long story short - I'm married, he's married. I love you and all that, promises, the same old stuff you read here. Roommate marriage for years. DDay six months ago and LC since, we see each other. He was pretty horrible immediately when it ended. Basically we did not speak, it was very bad for me.

 

In May he suddenly resurfaced in my life wanting to be friends. Well, I see him so it's more like he reestablished contact. At first, I admit, I just was so happy as I had missed him so badly. I had a lot of anger and confused as he had just ghosted me in plain site for 6 months. He gave me a big story, still roommate marriage, very vague stuff - he said he still loved me but we couldn't be together. He really confused me a lot, I did not understand why he was back.

 

6 weeks later, I find out in May he started marriage counseling to fix the marriage and he's been lying to me, they started having sex in May. Now - I did not expect him to be celibate, he was the one who told me that - so the lie really hurt. He didn't say much when I tried to understand, other than to say he was wrong to keep saying he loved me. The whole thing is twisted. Way too much to type out. He claims he wants to work it out with his wife, he really had not asked me to meet again or anything but he says I love you and stuff - but is clear the he cannot leave right now. I do not know what he wants - he says to be friends.

 

I don't so much want someone to explain this guy to me as to explain this pattern. What will come next and what can I do to protect myself?

 

I love him. So it's tough. I'm back to trying LC. I am married and trying to just move on but it is hard. My H knows everything.

 

I just don't understand.

 

I remember your story.

He is not hard to understand. No one woman can satisfy the man like two women.

Whatever he gets out of being around you - attention, feeling like he still got it, like he has backup plan in case his wife will throw him out - obviously he wants it.

 

But who cares what HE wants? What about YOU, what does YOU want?

He will drag it on with you for years, if you let him. Workplace affairs are the worst because you're inevitably in each other faces and cannot make a clean break and heal and move on easily.

 

And you don't have to wait for your husband to divorce you. You can divorce him yourself, tell mm go F himself and start anew.

 

There is more to life than being stuck in dead-end relationships and living each day in agony.

 

Best of wishes xo

[overseas2004]

I believe that people can fall in love when they are in a bad marriage and I believe that people stay out of obligation. But in your situation it really irks me that he decided to commit to marriage counseling and now he is back with you before he has even given that a real chance to work. How dishonest of him.

 

of course you realize its impossible for you to be friends.

 

I have been having an EA with my ex from 20 years ago. For 9 months we have been seeing each other and his story was that it was because he likes to be with me and enjoys my company (friends). So I tested the theory and found out that he wanted to have sex. I am now trying to exit the affair because I cant get a straight answer out of him about what he wants.

 

The bottom line is that when you are ln love its very painful for you to stay if there is no future in that relationship. You get nothing out of it but a few good moments and a lot of pain.

 

I urge you to get away from him because it won't end well for you and has a good chance to wreck your self esteem. This is one thing I really want to protect. And I do agree that if there is any chance you will get him it won't be by sticking around.

[Lobe]

And you don't have to wait for your husband to divorce you. You can divorce him yourself, tell mm go F himself and start anew.

 

There is more to life than being stuck in dead-end relationships and living each day in agony.

 

This sums it up nicely, yep.

[carhill]

What will come next and what can I do to protect myself?

 

Since your focus is protecting yourself, and you're married and your husband knows everything about the affair, apparently, get some tools from MC yourself and move forward with protecting yourself, your marriage if you choose to continue and any future choices you make. Tools are valuable assets to have.

 

I don't so much want someone to explain this guy to me as to explain this pattern

 

The pattern is men compartmentalize and sometimes/often vacillating between the superego (MC, back with wife, cut you off) and id (love you forever, just you and me babe, I can't live without you). Their ego can't or won't or doesn't have the tools to effectively stabilize the two competing factions so they (their observed behavior) go back and forth like something on the end of a rubber band.

 

I'm back to trying LC.

 

If LC is because of work, work can change. Usually the only reason people *can't* effect NC is because they think their job is more important than their life. Hence, it's a choice. MC, or counseling in general, can help with that. The alternative, at least until you're completely healed and over this guy and incidental contact doesn't affect you, is dealing with what you're dealing with now and it can go on for decades. Your power is in your choices and change is a choice. Up to you. Good luck!

[DKT3]

Since your focus is protecting yourself, and you're married and your husband knows everything about the affair, apparently, get some tools from MC yourself and move forward with protecting yourself, your marriage if you choose to continue and any future choices you make. Tools are valuable assets to have.

 

 

 

The pattern is men compartmentalize and sometimes/often vacillating between the superego (MC, back with wife, cut you off) and id (love you forever, just you and me babe, I can't live without you). Their ego can't or won't or doesn't have the tools to effectively stabilize the two competing factions so they (their observed behavior) go back and forth like something on the end of a rubber band.

 

 

 

If LC is because of work, work can change. Usually the only reason people *can't* effect NC is because they think their job is more important than their life. Hence, it's a choice. MC, or counseling in general, can help with that. The alternative, at least until you're completely healed and over this guy and incidental contact doesn't affect you, is dealing with what you're dealing with now and it can go on for decades. Your power is in your choices and change is a choice. Up to you. Good luck!

 

Another thing is men can and most often do have affairs and maintain the same level of love for his wife, in part because men in affairs don't compare or change the way they view the wife. No rewriting the marriage or demonizing the wife. While he may some with the ow to push back her insecurities about his marriage to maintain the affair.

[carhill]

Yep, that's the compartmentalizing aspect - men separate out love, sex, violence, etc and can segregate people as well. Hence the husband can legitimately feel love for the mistress/OW when with her and still feel legitimate love for his wife and family, and demonstrate both in his behaviors. Each interaction exists in a separate box in his psyche. As long as the boxes don't touch or the contents spill into the other box, he does fine. When a D-day occurs or a OW tells his wife, etc, bang. Watch him go sideways quick in a cacophony of emotion. How it is observed depends on his style. Guys who are long-trained to suppress emotion will often act like nothing has occurred as that is their normal behavior. Still, some usually leaks out.

 

TBH, I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to figure this guy out, OP. He is who he is and does what he does. Instead, spend the time figuring out your life, your psyche, your marriage and where you want to go and how. IME, that's what brings peace.

[DKT3]

I am curious, DKT3, are you BH? Sorry, I am not familiar with your story, but I see you going on this board from thread to thread asking the same thing - "but what about your husband"?

 

People are in real, raw pain here. If you read OP's original story, her husband had an affair as well and she'd gone through hell after Dday. Please show some sensitivity. Thank you and best wishes.

 

There is a reason for that, many times affairs are not based in reality, they are fictional and thrive in a bubble. The husband's, family, friends and to a degree the children take a back seat to the affair. None in the middle of the affair will admit this, though most after they have cleared will.

 

Husbands are ground zero in f their real world, getting out of affairs, breaking the on again off again cycle is made easier when they come back to earth. Not getting back will keep them stuck for years. Facing the situation with the husband is the first step.

 

Make no mistake the pain is of their creation, affairs don't just happen, boundaries are crossed and the rationalized or justified usually based on the husband's perceived short comings.

[Shadowburn]

There is a reason for that, many times affairs are not based in reality, they are fictional and thrive in a bubble. The husband's, family, friends and to a degree the children take a back seat to the affair. None in the middle of the affair will admit this, though most after they have cleared will.

 

Husbands are ground zero in f their real world, getting out of affairs, breaking the on again off again cycle is made easier when they come back to earth. Not getting back will keep them stuck for years. Facing the situation with the husband is the first step.

 

Make no mistake the pain is of their creation, affairs don't just happen, boundaries are crossed and the rationalized or justified usually based on the husband's perceived short comings.

 

I don't think you understood my post, but it's ok.

Sorry OP, I won't hijack you thread, please keep posting and reaching out for support xo

[DKT3]

Also when things in the affair are going bad the mw rarely says my husband would never do this or treat me this way, but when the affair is good and she is happy and giddy then it's my husband never makes me feel like this.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Somebody on this forum had asked why is it that the married man keeps returning to an affair partner; one person on here answered it perfectly (sorry i can't remember the person who said it). She/he said that married men prefer to keep returning to a previous affair partner because it's easier to re-start an affair than it is to groom a new affair partner.

 

Midnighttblue, ask yourself, why did your married man come back? He's not leaving his wife, in fact they've started marriage counselling, he was even honest with you and told you that the both of you can never be together. So why do you think he's coming back? Be honest with yourself. Of course he's going to tell you that he loves you. He'll tell you what you want so that you will give him what he wants. He's not being confusing hon, you just aren't listening to what he is telling you.

 

Your married man is in counselling and is working on his marriage, why don't you want to do the same?

 

By staying with him you are acknowledging to him that you have accepted being his other woman. No matter what you say on here or to him, if you continue seeing him, you have agreed to remaining his affair partner.

 

I am not really with him like before, there has been zero intimacy since it ended and we do not see each other, but we have communicated electronically. In the beginning (6 weeks ago) I had so many questions since he had completely shut down from Dec to May. I was just shocked to learn last week that at the same exact time he started marriage counseling, he had also reached out to me. Plus the whole thing about not being attracted to her and how he was living this celibate lifestyle, what was that about? He did not ask me to meet, I don't really understand that all. Meanwhile it was a lie. BTW, I am not celibate, it was not anything I asked of him, it was all him saying it.

 

But....I read all your posts and I didn't really think of it the way some of you said it. Perhaps now that they are in counseling (her choice, not his as he only lies through it all anyway), perhaps he is nervous that the marriage actually will end - by her hand - and I am Plan B. I do feel like he doesn't actually want to have an affair with me, he does like being married, but just in case, he wants to make sure he does not end up with nothing. I do agree that I probably feed his ego with attention. Or maybe he thinks he would have an affair down the road again.

 

It was the timing of him basically trying to fix his marriage and fix his "relationship" with me at the same time that made no sense.

 

I will think about all this. I definitely do not like the idea of feeding this guy's ego at all.

[pooldog]

Long story short - I'm married, he's married. I love you and all that, promises, the same old stuff you read here. Roommate marriage for years. DDay six months ago and LC since, we see each other. He was pretty horrible immediately when it ended. Basically we did not speak, it was very bad for me.

 

In May he suddenly resurfaced in my life wanting to be friends. Well, I see him so it's more like he reestablished contact. At first, I admit, I just was so happy as I had missed him so badly. I had a lot of anger and confused as he had just ghosted me in plain site for 6 months. He gave me a big story, still roommate marriage, very vague stuff - he said he still loved me but we couldn't be together. He really confused me a lot, I did not understand why he was back.

 

6 weeks later, I find out in May he started marriage counseling to fix the marriage and he's been lying to me, they started having sex in May. Now - I did not expect him to be celibate, he was the one who told me that - so the lie really hurt. He didn't say much when I tried to understand, other than to say he was wrong to keep saying he loved me. The whole thing is twisted. Way too much to type out. He claims he wants to work it out with his wife, he really had not asked me to meet again or anything but he says I love you and stuff - but is clear the he cannot leave right now. I do not know what he wants - he says to be friends.

 

I don't so much want someone to explain this guy to me as to explain this pattern. What will come next and what can I do to protect myself?

 

I love him. So it's tough. I'm back to trying LC. I am married and trying to just move on but it is hard. My H knows everything.

 

I just don't understand.

 

first - hugs - what a roller coaster ride.

 

I would write, "it is so nice of you to check in but I do not want to be friends with you or see you anymore because I just can't as long as we are married. I think you have to say NC and this is what I want and stick to it" YOU are in the driver's seat because a passenger on an MM bus is the highway to hell.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I don't think you understood my post, but it's ok.

Sorry OP, I won't hijack you thread, please keep posting and reaching out for support xo

 

You didn't hijack my thread, no worries. I appreciate the thoughts.

 

Thank you, it is nice you remember my story. It was bad, my own affair was pretty typical stuff where I got run over by a truck emotionally. What made it different was the fact my H had his own affair at the same time. His was more EA and less physical than mine, but pain is pain, and he suffered. He recently said to me that even though he did not sleep with her, we are even, he realizes it is all the same thing.

 

I do not want to leave my husband, although I've been very honest and told him he should just divorce me, he's been waiting and watching me for 6 months for me to feel better. I actually am, it was just this stuff, xMM resurfacing and it confused me. It's like an addiction honestly.

 

I am taking an anti-depressant for a month now which is said to help.

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

If LC is because of work, work can change. Usually the only reason people *can't* effect NC is because they think their job is more important than their life. Hence, it's a choice. MC, or counseling in general, can help with that. The alternative, at least until you're completely healed and over this guy and incidental contact doesn't affect you, is dealing with what you're dealing with now and it can go on for decades. Your power is in your choices and change is a choice. Up to you. Good luck!

 

Yes, I've been trying the impossible, keeping my business together and having to see xMM, getting over it with him in plain sight. I can leave in the fall if I really want to. I will take a financial hit but I cannot keep living like this. My H does not want me to run though, he also is aware of the economics. He says if I run and do not confront this situation and get better/stronger on my own, my mind will only recreate it at a later time.

 

I should take everyone's advice and just not talk to him at all outside of when I must see him.,I really have tried, I've told him about 25 times in the last 6 weeks we can't be friends. It's like quitting smoking...and failing every few days.

[MidnightBlue1980]

You are his fallback plan if MC doesn't work. And if it doesn't work right away, your LC will give him the ego boost he wants to feel invincible. Cut him off. NC. If he wants to reconcile his marriage he can't do that with you in the picture. Ironically, I f the marriage is really and truly over, he can't see that with you in the picture. Tell him to call you only when and if his marriage is kaput. No notarized separation agreement? No you.

 

Thank you. That may be why he needed to be my friend at the same time as starting counseling - those were his words, he needed me to be his friend. At the time I did not understand what was going on, now I do, although maybe there is more, who knows.

 

I do not want him to call me. If I had one wish it would be to get over my feelings for him and just be able to move on.

[Lobe]

Another thing is men can and most often do have affairs and maintain the same level of love for his wife, in part because men in affairs don't compare or change the way they view the wife. No rewriting the marriage or demonizing the wife. While he may some with the ow to push back her insecurities about his marriage to maintain the affair.

 

I'm going to completely disagree with this. There were times in MC when something fell out of my husband's lips that was so bizarre and fictional that even as he was saying it he would peter out before completing the sentence. He remembered conversations he had his xOW about things he claims he had discussed with me that never happened. NEVER HAPPENED. He didn't realize how big his lies had become until we started peeling the layers back. He had completely changed the backstory of our marriage and had managed to develop so much contempt for me that I was afraid he would never come out of the fog. He had to make me into the devil incarnate to justify his affair because when he started pushing me away more and more, but came home from being with her and I had still cooked him a nice dinner and bought him gifts for father's day and and put cute notes in his lunches... he had to fabricate how horrible I was and force himself to stop feeling any love or respect for me in order to make himself feel better about what he was doing.

 

Do NOT underestimate the power of the fog over the thoughts and actions of either WS or AP.

 

Midnight, I don't think you're running by taking a new position. In fact, I think it's beneficial to both of you. For you because it will make it easier to go NC, and for you BS because it will show him a deep commitment to the R, even if he says he supports you confronting it head on. Using your own analogy, trying to quit your AP while working with him is a bit like sitting in the smoking lounge when you're trying to give up smoking...

[Marc878]

Any contact will mean the affair will continue. You were and are a sideshow.

 

What do you want?

[MidnightBlue1980]

Any contact will mean the affair will continue. You were and are a sideshow.

 

What do you want?

 

The affair ended 6 months ago. xMM told his wife a distorted version after it had ended as my H felt she needed to know. My H and his wife spoke and he told her the truth, though I doubt she believed him. It's a long story, I posted it here.

 

My H had his A and he's fine, in fact he says it improved our marriage. He's seen OW and she's fine, a boyfriend now and bought a house. xMM and his wife are back, better than ever, even having sex again. Everyone is peachy and better after the affairs except me.

 

I just want my mental anguish to end. I want to be at peace.

[DKT3]

The affair ended 6 months ago. xMM told his wife a distorted version after it had ended as my H felt she needed to know. My H and his wife spoke and he told her the truth, though I doubt she believed him. It's a long story, I posted it here.

 

My H had his A and he's fine, in fact he says it improved our marriage. He's seen OW and she's fine, a boyfriend now and bought a house. xMM and his wife are back, better than ever, even having sex again. Everyone is peachy and better after the affairs except me.

 

I just want my mental anguish to end. I want to be at peace.

 

Because your the one that got emotionally tangled up, and not truly wanting to let go. What I get it you wanting it to be over and to be able to move forward but not actually willing to start stepping.

[Jersey born raised]

Your husband thinks your marriage is better? Waking up next to you knowing that he is plan B, knowing you want not be with him, but with someone else?

 

I appreciate you tell him what is going on. But lord, your husbands pain must be immense. You stated you asked him to divorce and he didn't. Why can't you file?

[DKT3]

Your husband thinks your marriage is better? Waking up next to you knowing that he is plan B, knowing you want not be with him, but with someone else?

 

I appreciate you tell him what is going on. But lord, your husbands pain must be immense. You stated you asked him to divorce and he didn't. Why can't you file?

 

Not everyone views marriage the same, it may be better for her husband because he may feel free to do as he pleases without guilt , maybe for him the confidence in knowing the can be with others and manage to stay together is idea of happy.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Your husband thinks your marriage is better? Waking up next to you knowing that he is plan B, knowing you want not be with him, but with someone else?

 

I appreciate you tell him what is going on. But lord, your husbands pain must be immense. You stated you asked him to divorce and he didn't. Why can't you file?

 

Well, I told him to file because I would not want to stay with me. I would leave myself right now if I could. And yes, he has said that he feels like he is Plan B.

 

He stays because he says this is all his fault. He is aware I came to him last summer, before this happened, and told him I was unhappy and I did not feel married anymore. I ate dinner alone. I went to bed alone. I was always alone. We did not have much sex. We never spent any time together at all. His response was that he was who he was and I should feel free to hang out with my male friends, that we were living a progressive relationship. Meanwhile, he was actually hanging out with someone else. When he found out about xMM in August, he suggested an open marriage and that I should date others, so he could continue to see this woman. I did not want to date anyone. So I continued to see xMM till two things happened - OW dumped my H because he would not leave me and I ended the A because I did not want to be on the side.

 

H realized I am the one he loves, that he was wrong to put the kids over me all these years, he should have said yes to date nights, spent time with me, etc. He has changed a lot in a year. He is a different person. It really is a positive marriage. But I am who I am and I carry torches and I carry one now. It is hard for me to go backwards but I have done a lot of work on my end and I really try. There has been nothing at all with xMM since it ended.

 

It's all in my head. H is afraid I will never get over it all and decide I need to move on to close the door. I'm trying not to do that. I'm trying not to have to burn it all down to get over this guy.

Edited June 27, 2016 by MidnightBlue1980

[carhill]

Not everyone views marriage the same, it may be better for her husband because he may feel free to do as he pleases without guilt , maybe for him the confidence in knowing the can be with others and manage to stay together is idea of happy.

Yeah, I've seen this with some MW's where revenge affairs occurred. MW has affair, H finds out, has one of his own (sometimes the reverse but I've more anecdotes of this), tit for tat, mutually assured destruction, pound of flesh, heh, OK, no more euphemisms

 

Anyway, they can, if on the same page psychologically, ostensibly rev up and recharge their marriage with such titillation. Some do and have and have gone on to be married for quite some time even though there's no obvious stuff enslaving them to marriage, like minor children, income imbalance, stuff, etc. It all depends on the parties.

 

Each M is different. Marriage counseling doesn't have to 'repair' the marriage to some utopian state, rather give the partners tools to bring the marriage to a state they jointly feel is healthy for them. It's a toolbox. If the OP plans on staying married, even if a D is on the table too, I still recommend it, as it can help with divorce too. The tools work both ways.