False reconciliation

[Lobe]

Because at this point, I just need to pick a route and stick with it.

 

Do this. With complete transparency, to your wife, your counsellor, and most importantly to yourself. Ask your counsellor about this:

 

Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental disorder in which people have an inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others. But behind this mask of ultraconfidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism.

 

A narcissistic personality disorder causes problems in many areas of life, such as relationships, work, school or financial affairs. You may be generally unhappy and disappointed when you're not given the special favors or admiration you believe you deserve. Others may not enjoy being around you, and you may find your relationships unfulfilling.

 

Narcissistic personality disorder treatment is centered around talk therapy (psychotherapy).

[heartwhole]

No one is saying that you should sacrifice your own happiness to stay in a loveless marriage, but you haven't mentioned your children at all in this latest post and mention feeling no remorse at all about continued cheating on your wife, despite the fact that she must be hurting quite openly at the moment. Why do you think the feelings and concerns of your wife and children weigh so little on you? Even if you are incompatible with your wife and the OW is just a much better fit for you, I would still expect to see genuine concern (empathy) for your wife and genuine concern for how this will affect your children. Why do you think those are missing here?

[Liam1]

Should it bother me that I could literally flip a coin and make a decision on whether to be with my wife or OW based on that? It is literal ambivalence. Because at this point, I just need to pick a route and stick with it.

 

Or does ambivalence indicate I should be single?

 

IMO, your above coin flip post suggests that possibly you do not love your wife and it is more than the affair fog.

 

Asking if you should be single indicates you do not love your affair partner, either.

 

Do you have difficulty feeling empathy or love for others in general?

 

Are you very good with numbers and math?

 

I think you should stay in counseling for awhile and then decide.

 

Meanwhile, if still with the OW, I would suggest asking for a trial separation from your wife. It is only fair.

 

The separation will signal your ambivalence to her and help her make a more informed decision.

 

I would not tell her you resumed the affair.

 

Why hurt her, again?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I would suggest you tell your wife.... She is already hurt.. What's another knife in the heart? Besides... It is her right to know that you are continuing on your affair.

 

She deserves the right to make the decision that is best for her.... Based on your honest answers. Do this one thing that is honorable ... Disclose to her that you have continued to cheat

[Mr. Lucky]

Ok. Then what is wrong with me?

 

You're taking the coward's way out. How can the A be so compelling you'd burn your marriage to the ground for it yet you're stuck in place ?

 

Are you really going to let circumstances dictate one of the more important decisions in your life? You seem to be waiting for either D-Day #2 or your OW to move on, you'll take the crumbs - if any! - that are left. Pathetic for you, even sadder for those around you...

 

Mr. Lucky

[calmb4thestorm]

You're taking the coward's way out. How can the A be so compelling you'd burn your marriage to the ground for it yet you're stuck in place ?

 

Are you really going to let circumstances dictate one of the more important decisions in your life? You seem to be waiting for either D-Day #2 or your OW to move on, you'll take the crumbs - if any! - that are left. Pathetic for you, even sadder for those around you...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Thank you. This is thought-provoking. Yes, I'm still destroying my marriage, but not really doing anything to secure a future with OW either. I am letting both go to waste. I recognize it as ambivalence, but your post really helps clarify the outcome. I deserve bread crumbs.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Thank you. This is thought-provoking. Yes, I'm still destroying my marriage, but not really doing anything to secure a future with OW either. I am letting both go to waste. I recognize it as ambivalence, but your post really helps clarify the outcome. I deserve bread crumbs.

 

This is not about what you deserve or don't deserve.

 

See you are in the drivers seat... Shouldn't you at least warn both women to put on their seat belts because you are about to crash?

 

If they choose to remain unbelted .. That's their decision...

But they deserve the right to know that an accident is up ahead that is going to cause great injury

[Liam1]

I deserve bread crumbs.

 

I think maybe addressing your self-flagellating attitude may help knock you off the fence.

 

Maybe being on the fence is directly related to the fact that you keep telling your self you deserve bread crumbs or in other words.....do not deserve to be happy.

 

Find a good individual counselor who will help you explore this unhealthy attitude.

[Mr. Lucky]

Find a good individual counselor who will help you explore this unhealthy attitude.

 

Don't agree with Liam very often but he's on the right track.

 

Think about it -

 

- guarantee you'll undermine marriage by engaging in affair

 

- guarantee affair won't lead to happiness by vacillating on marriage

 

- guarantee reconciliation won't be successful by continuing to cheat

 

- guarantee you won't be responsible for outcome by refusing to choose

 

Hmmmmm....

 

Mr. Lucky

[Jersey born raised]

Just as there is a fog effect for a WS, their is one for a BS. The first stage is denial, the next is a panic to preserve the relationship which usually last months.

 

I've read for BH it commonly takes 10 months. When the reality sets in, anger begins, and they file. At times because the WW is so focused on OM, they are blindsided when served.

 

In short you are on paper thin ice. Focus on your wife and marriage.

 

On a side note I wonder if that 10 month figure is why one site as a bench mark for their Plan A and Plan B. Background info: first the Dr who runs the site has stated bluntly he would file immediately on discovery and divorce. He offers these plans for those who will not. He advocates exposure to the worid and to children over the age of four. Then spend 10 months woeing the WW. If nothing changes then file.

 

By the way he advises BW to [wait] on more then 2 months.

Edited June 27, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[aliveagain]

Should it bother me that I could literally flip a coin and make a decision on whether to be with my wife or OW based on that? It is literal ambivalence. Because at this point, I just need to pick a route and stick with it.

 

Or does ambivalence indicate I should be single?

 

If you feel nothing then that is a sign of a much deeper problem. Only people with certain types of personality disorders feel nothing, discuss this with your consular. Have you ever been tested for bipolar disorder? One of the common symptom's is infidelity.

[calmb4thestorm]

I don't think I have any personality disorder. I don't think I'm a narciscist or bi-polar. I think I'm a pretty well-adjusted person. I feel emotions. It's not like I don't cry.

 

But for some reason, when it comes to my situation, I just feel stuck. Why can't I put more weight on my marriage than my affair? It's not like my marriage was terrible. And yes, my choices willl affect my kids very much. I feel sad for how a divorce would affect them.

 

I waffle. I want what I can't have. I can't make choices. I have entertained the idea of a life with OW. And while most people say that's a fantasy, the fact that I still consider it after D-day and that I fully realize what a hard route it would be, suggests to me that I've considered it past the 'fantasy' point. But then I also think staying with my wife is the easy choice..the safe and comfortable route...but maybe less romantically fullfilling.

[purplesorrow]

I don't think I have any personality disorder. I don't think I'm a narciscist or bi-polar. I think I'm a pretty well-adjusted person. I feel emotions. It's not like I don't cry.

 

But for some reason, when it comes to my situation, I just feel stuck. Why can't I put more weight on my marriage than my affair? It's not like my marriage was terrible. And yes, my choices willl affect my kids very much. I feel sad for how a divorce would affect them.

 

I waffle. I want what I can't have. I can't make choices. I have entertained the idea of a life with OW. And while most people say that's a fantasy, the fact that I still consider it after D-day and that I fully realize what a hard route it would be, suggests to me that I've considered it past the 'fantasy' point. But then I also think staying with my wife is the easy choice..the safe and comfortable route...but maybe less romantically fullfilling.

 

Being honest with your wife could help her make the choice for you. It takes a lot to stay with someone after they cheat. To discover you're pretending to reconcile may be all she needs to put you out the door.

[ladydesigner]

I don't think I have any personality disorder. I don't think I'm a narciscist or bi-polar. I think I'm a pretty well-adjusted person. I feel emotions. It's not like I don't cry.

 

But for some reason, when it comes to my situation, I just feel stuck. Why can't I put more weight on my marriage than my affair? It's not like my marriage was terrible. And yes, my choices willl affect my kids very much. I feel sad for how a divorce would affect them.

 

I waffle. I want what I can't have. I can't make choices. I have entertained the idea of a life with OW. And while most people say that's a fantasy, the fact that I still consider it after D-day and that I fully realize what a hard route it would be, suggests to me that I've considered it past the 'fantasy' point. But then I also think staying with my wife is the easy choice..the safe and comfortable route...but maybe less romantically fullfilling.

 

You are not making any healthy decisions. Why don't you see an IC to help you?

[Mr. Lucky]

But then I also think staying with my wife is the easy choice..the safe and comfortable route...but maybe less romantically fullfilling.

 

Coming up on our 30th anniversary this year. And while I'm happy to say the "romantic" passion is still there, it's 1% of our overall life and shared history together as things stand now.

 

Think long term, believe it or not it gets here quicker than you'd think possible. Fulfillment means different things when measured over different periods of time ...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Liam1]

I don't think I have any personality disorder. I don't think I'm a narciscist or bi-polar. I think I'm a pretty well-adjusted person. I feel emotions. It's not like I don't cry.

 

But for some reason, when it comes to my situation, I just feel stuck. Why can't I put more weight on my marriage than my affair? It's not like my marriage was terrible. And yes, my choices willl affect my kids very much. I feel sad for how a divorce would affect them.

 

I waffle. I want what I can't have. I can't make choices. I have entertained the idea of a life with OW. And while most people say that's a fantasy, the fact that I still consider it after D-day and that I fully realize what a hard route it would be, suggests to me that I've considered it past the 'fantasy' point.

 

But then I also think staying with my wife is the easy choice..the safe and comfortable route...but maybe less romantically fullfilling.

 

You are addicted to the new love affair high:

 

It's known as a state of limerance. the fact that you can not see your lover all the time, makes it stronger.

 

http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limerence

 

Sloooooooow down. You are headed for trouble. In a few years your limerance will wear off and your lover will seem no better than your wife, and she may be far worse in a REAL relationship.

[jenkins95]

Calm, I do feel for you. The feeling of ambivalence and indecision is crippling - you see two possible pathways, each terrifying in it's own way. I've been there too.

 

You try to think of every possible variable and it paralyses you - there are just too many to consider. Try to limit your thinking to a few simple but vitally important issues.

 

In my opinion, you could even reduce it to this one: -

 

How were things in your marriage BEFORE you ever met OW, and would you be considering ending your marriage if she wasn't on the scene?

 

If you feel that your marriage was good before and that you weren't considering leaving, then i strongly advise that you give everything to the marriage. Accept that you will still have doubts and miss the OW, but these will dissipate in time - you should notice a difference in three months.

 

Recognise that your mind is playing tricks with you - your wife can do no right and your OW can do no wrong. This is a cruel fog illusion. Be aware of it. And Liam is right, you are experiencing addiction withdrawal right now, just like a heroin addict. Recovering addicts want their drug, but they don't WANT to want that drug. It takes a few months for the second order desires to override the first order desires, but it does happen if you are determined and strong .

 

Of course if your marriage was in big trouble even before the OW, then this affair could be the death knell for your marriage. But even then, I would recommend staying away from OW while you sort things out. It rarely works out when the cheating partner runs straight into the AP's arms leaving a trail of devastation in her/his wake.

 

Good luck calm. Hang in there - try to use your head more than your heart in your decisions and appreciate that, like me, it is very fortunate that your wife is even giving you a chance after D-day. Many cheaters don't get any further chances.

Edited June 28, 2016 by jenkins95

[Sunkissedpatio]

Calmbe4thestorm -

I don't think you are measuring the pain your wife will feel when she realizes you have deceived her again, yet she has every right to know that you have.

 

In reading where you stand today it feels to me that on some level you hope that by continuing both relationships perhaps the affair will eventually lose its appeal, and you won't have to make any hard decisions today and can return to your marriage "nor harm done"

 

But, it's only a matter of time until you get sloppy and your wife catches you anyway. So do yourself and her and your children a favour (they will likely find out about all this when they are old enough) and make up your mind. Take a gamble on whatever you feel will make you happy. There are no guarantees in life but I can guarantee you that you are destroying your wife and you will only damage her more as time goes on and if you EVER cared about this woman you owe her that much, she gave birth to your children among other things (I am sure you shared a lot of life's ups and downs and hardships etc) that I am sure you are incapable of seeing that right now because you are thinking with your little head and not your heart.

 

 

Tap into that and do what's right

Edited June 30, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
off topic ~T

[healingsoul]

You had an affair. You told your wife. She is willing to forgive you and work with you on your marriage. You are amazingly blessed. You have the rare opportunity to salvage your marriage after infidelity. Your wife must really love you and have a strong committment to marriage.

 

 

I am so very sorry for your wife. I can't image the pain.

 

 

Yes, give it all you have to make your marriage work and to be there for your family. Your children need you, and no matter what people say they are never the same after a divorce.

[afoolto no end]

You can't make a choice because of the addiction to your affair and that is what it is, just like drugs or alcohol, you think you need it to live.....until your mind is clear from the affair you can't even consider staying with your wife....

It would only hurt her to pretend or settle, that is simply not fair after you being the one that broke the marriage vows......

Your wife is hurting already, scared of losing her family......and what are you doing being a coward, taking care of only yourself.........it is so sad 4 months of a nothing relationship for your family, hurting everyone for 4 months of what.

You don't even know her after 4 months and the grass on her side is just grass even if you can't see it now, think about it, you know what she is capable of now.

I agree the only fair thing to do is sit your wife down, tell her what you are still doing and how you really feel and let her decide if your worth staying with anymore.......

When a man a good man makes an error like this for his own selfishness he fixes it like a man........he doesn't take the easy road, marriage isn't the easy road, it takes work and commitment, we could all run at times but we don't we honor and respect each other.

You have lost the fundamental values you should have as the leader of YOUR family.....

Think about how many people you will hurt, extended family, you will be surprised how many people will not agree with your affair life....

This is something you will have to live with for the rest of your life, can you do that?

Let your wife know, be honest she deserves at least that, if you get your walking papers you will have your answer...........

[Scarlett94]

Hi,

 

I'm seeking opinions on false reconciliation with a wayward spouse (myself) and yo-yoing with decision making. Aside from the obvious fact that I'm not a good person and am hurting both my wife and the OW by my lack of decision-making, I truthfully want to know your opinions on what my actions mean...because I've analyzed them a lot.

 

During my affair, I began to feel extreme guilt. The issue is that my wife and I attempted reconciliation after D-day (which i disclosed myself...no prompting from wife), but then waffled back and forth in my decision-making process (unbeknownst to my wife) and ended up continuing a physical affair with OW again without wife's knowledge. This time, I have not disclosed it (knowing it would probably be the nail in the coffin)..and I'm not really feeling any remorse or guilt anymore.

 

Does the fact that I continued it after reconciliation mean I dont love my wife? Or the fact that i dont feel guilt anymore? Or is it still the affair fog? If I don't love my wife, I want to leave her. It is decision time.

 

Tell the truth and let her go. If I gave my husband another chance and he cheated again? I would be done! It's not fair to your wife that you are betraying her again!

[wmacbride]

Op,

I'm not going to suggest to you that you rush into a decision, but what I am going to say is that you owe your wife the same opportunity make up her mind that you are enjoying.

 

Give her the facts about what you have been doing and that it is a false R. She may well make the decision for you.

[sandylee1]

Leave your wife and be with your OW. You're on the same page with your sexual compatibility, morals and values. You're a much better match and seem to be 'soulmates'.

 

Let your wife go and find a more compatible partner for herself and a more responsible role model of a man for your children. You aren't that the way you're behaving right now.

 

Life will ultimately be better than the deceit she's facing right now. I believe you wanted your wife to end it when you confessed. She didn't and you got confused.

Edited June 30, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Typo

[jenkins95]

No update from the OP for two days.

 

Are you OK calm? I know you are in a tough place but hang in there and keep posting.

 

 

Update: Ah, OK, he updated his other thread yesterday.

 

Come back and tell us how you are calm. There is some good advice across your threads. Think hard and don't do anything rash. We are here for you.

[wmacbride]

Op,

 

One of the most important points to consider is who you want to be as a human being.

 

Do you want to be someone who treats those who love you in a really crappy way? Do you want to be someone who actively deceives another?

 

While you are sitting on the fence, having sex with your ow, your wife is doing her best, believing that you have ended the A. This isn't all some theoretical exercise in finding yourself, 'living authentically" or any of that claptrap. This is the real world, and people are facing the fallout of your choices, without even knowing it.

 

In the end, the headiness of the A will end, and you will be left with the aftermath of the decisions you are currently making. What sort of man is it that you want to see looking at you from the mirror each day? If the answer is an honest man, a decent man, a man your children can be proud of? If that is your answer, then to 'live authentically" doesn't take months of therapy, "exploring a relationship with your ow" or anything other than telling your wife the truth, followed by an apology for treating her this way.

 

After that, you will be able to engage in all the authentic living and relationship exploration you desire, and you will be able to do it knowing you are being honest.

 

If you read many of the posts by ws on here, one fo the things they lament about themselves, no matter what happened with their M, is that they regret who they became during the A. They regret the deception and dishonesty.