Author ZA Dater Posted June 28, 2016 Author Share Posted June 28, 2016 Look we have established you are no Quasimodo, you express yourself well on paper so are no idiot either, you apparently have a good heart, but you are obviously lacking in the social skills necessary to make friends and attract women. My guess is that you are giving off all the wrong signals and are not able to read the right signals either. I guess you do not come across as the average normal guy, you come across as weird or awkward or arrogant... etc. Do not dismiss body language, it is very important,and a knowledge of it is necessary if you are going to interact with people effectively. To some it is completely natural, they can charm the birds off the trees without even thinking about it, for others they need to learn how not to unconsciously turn people off. My guess is that if we could spend 1/2 an hour with you IRL we would know why you are unsuccessful with women and find it difficult to find friends. It may not even take that long... That is why if I were you I would go to a dating coach, as they would tell you exactly where you are going wrong and how to fix it. Thanks for the compliments. I have read about body language but then I am forced to over think each and every situation and that just leaves me exceptionally tired, as if 10 hours of work isn't enough already. The criticisms of me are numerous : not positive : doesn't smile : doesn't laugh : not fun : don't like way he dresses : not trendy enough : too shy : too skinny : not muscular enough The only positive about me is apparently "he is a good guy" whatever that is supposed to mean. I know I can be a good friend, equally I know would probably be a good bf but the former seems relatively speaking easier to find and there is the crunch for many people like me, we don't have the personality to get chemistry and wow and what wows us we can realistically speaking never have because we don't offer anything wow. You just end up living a really unfulfilling life complete with a massive void. I can take someone to amazing events sure but they don't make me wow, I can take them to nice restaurants again that doesn't make me wow. Those things may work as a friend, though again friends are perhaps less about the person and more about some fundamental common interest so the wow of the person matters less than the common interest which binds everything together. Not sure that makes any sense. The even sadder part is we open ourselves up to being used and we don't mind because some attention is better than nothing. As for dating coaches, I doubt I can be fixed, too stubborn and dogmatic for that. Sadly. Link to post Share on other sites
Tribble Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 What attracts you to the women you want to progress with? You say you can't find common ground with people. That you can't get the conversation to flow with...anyone by the sounds of it. But don't you want this with a potential gf? Or are these women just hot and you want to have the privileges of bf status and aren't so bothered about what's between the ears and how you two get on? Women are people too. And all women are different. Some go for the instant chemistry and the sizzle. And some don't. As I have stated before, I want a friend first. I have to feel comfortable to even contemplate it going any further. And that sucks for me. I find it very difficult to meet anyone as it's all about instant gratification. I don't get this settling for low interest business if you end up with what was a friend. I can not like someone at all and then, through getting to know them, fall hard. And then I am all in, high interest, wanting to rip your clothes off constantly. I'm sure there are some circumstances where it is true but EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT. Not all women think, feel and act the same way. OP, I get that you're frustrated. But you need to learn to relate to people, to work on friendships and then move on. All good relationships have a friendship element in there somewhere. I have a few great friends and some of us have very little in common, but we have a connection there. It isn't all about having things in common, relationships (all relationships, not just romantic ones) have something there that cannot be explained. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Can the friendzone actually be a stepping stone? Presuming the friendzone is a relationship type where one party is sexually attracted and the other not, and the interactions are demonstrably platonic, IME, no it's not a stepping stone, if stepping stone to romance, sex, marriage, babies and lifelong bliss is what you're asking about. Can it be? Sure. In the 20 years or so I was single and dabbled in all kinds of arrangements, nope. In fact, I never grew any sort of friendship with a woman into romance regardless of how we started, how I felt (can't read their minds) or how long the friendship existed. Like we men can compartmentalize sex and love, women can compartmentalize men, apparently, and once safely and securely in the 'friend' box, that box remains for life, for those women. The woman I married I met, dated, had sex with, then we became friends along the path to getting married and after. If I hadn't changed my style of relating to women, that never would've happened. Up to you. Link to post Share on other sites
King Me Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Agreed. However, if you accept most guys who cannot be attractive initially struggle with loneliness wouldn't the friend zone at least offer something to reduce that feeling? An actual friend will reduce the feeling of loneliness. I don't know about a "friend zone." Probably not. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "friend zone" is where guys live when they are wanting to have sex with a woman but she doesn't want to? Sorry but I'm from another generation than you are. From personal experience, it won't go over well if you present yourself as a friend to a woman when your intention is actually to get in her pants or have a romantic relationship with her. It's dishonest and manipulative. Regardless of what I'm reading on this site, I can tell you from personal experience that it is possible for men and women to have friendships, even if they are physically attracted. The friendship just needs to be worth whatever discomfort comes with it - if it's not, forget it. I have to smh when I read posts from all the young men here who state with authority that it's impossible for men and women to be friends. I suppose so, if said men only view woman as purveyors of sex, and useless if they won't be providing it. Hoping you aren't one of those guys! Stay the course! Link to post Share on other sites
NTV Posted June 28, 2016 Share Posted June 28, 2016 Thanks for the compliments. I have read about body language but then I am forced to over think each and every situation and that just leaves me exceptionally tired, as if 10 hours of work isn't enough already. The criticisms of me are numerous : not positive : doesn't smile : doesn't laugh : not fun : don't like way he dresses : not trendy enough : too shy : too skinny : not muscular enough The only positive about me is apparently "he is a good guy" whatever that is supposed to mean. I know I can be a good friend, equally I know would probably be a good bf but the former seems relatively speaking easier to find and there is the crunch for many people like me, we don't have the personality to get chemistry and wow and what wows us we can realistically speaking never have because we don't offer anything wow. You just end up living a really unfulfilling life complete with a massive void. I can take someone to amazing events sure but they don't make me wow, I can take them to nice restaurants again that doesn't make me wow. Those things may work as a friend, though again friends are perhaps less about the person and more about some fundamental common interest so the wow of the person matters less than the common interest which binds everything together. Not sure that makes any sense. The even sadder part is we open ourselves up to being used and we don't mind because some attention is better than nothing. As for dating coaches, I doubt I can be fixed, too stubborn and dogmatic for that. Sadly. I'm not doctor, but you may want to see one about clinical depression. It is a real thing. It sounds like you're difficulties aren't really related to how attractive you are or your romantic search strategies as much as an untreated illness. If I asked you to try something, would you? Because I'd ask you to try to journal. And to journal at least one thing a day that made you 'happy'. Not a big thing necessarily. A song on the radio, lunch, etc. And not that this is all you journal but that it's is just one thing in it. For example, in my journal I found that eating at my fav restaurant 1 or 2 times a week is great but 3 or more sucks the novelty out of it. Now I know that sounds miniscule compared to what you're facing, but those little things add up over time. Does that make sense? Link to post Share on other sites
Revolver Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 When Women say "I'm married to my best friend" there are being disingenuous Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 yes people can and do make the jump from friend to lover and in many respects that is the ideal paradigm. However not all friendships and friendzones are created the same. If someone possess the traits/characteristics and skills that women find romantically/sexually desirable and they are social friends with someone but no one has made any initiation towards a romantic venture yet, then that scenario has potential to jump from friend to lover. However, if someone is in the friendzone because they do not currently posses the traits/characteristics and skills that women find romantically/sexually desirable, then that will not transition to a romantic/sexual relationship no matter how "nice" the guy is and no matter how go of a social friend he is. They key is developing the traits/characteristics and skillset that people find attractive and desirable. Being nice and friendly and being a good friend in a social context will not qualify one as a love interest in the romantic/sexual context. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 They key is developing the traits/characteristics and skillset that people find attractive and desirable. Being nice and friendly and being a good friend in a social context will not qualify one as a love interest in the romantic/sexual context. Let me put this into an analogy to use as an example. Lets say that a trucking firm is looking for qualified over the road truck drivers and they require the appropriate commercial driver credentials. If someone is a fine taxi driver who has years of outstanding experience and taxi driving skills and has a garden variety chauffer's license applies for the OTR 18-wheeler position, he won't get the position because he does not have the required credentials and experience required for the position that is actually being filled. The same is true with a woman looking to fill the positon of BF/FWB/FB/Lover/Husband etc. If someone does not have the credentials and qualifications and skillset and traits etc of what she wants to fill the position, that person is not going to get the job regardless of how qualified, experienced and excellent he is at something else. Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted July 4, 2016 Share Posted July 4, 2016 There has to be mutual attraction. Friendzone means there's no attraction but they don't mind being friends with you as long as you don't make your attraction to them their problem, which usually does happen sooner of later by the unwanted suitor trying to make it look like they're their boyfriend (or girlfriend) to other people and blocking. It's really not good to keep up an active friendship or any more than an occasional acquaintanceship with someone you know wants more because they can do irreparable harm to your social life and they're usually hard to get rid of. Link to post Share on other sites
Author ZA Dater Posted July 13, 2016 Author Share Posted July 13, 2016 There has to be mutual attraction. Friendzone means there's no attraction but they don't mind being friends with you as long as you don't make your attraction to them their problem, which usually does happen sooner of later by the unwanted suitor trying to make it look like they're their boyfriend (or girlfriend) to other people and blocking. It's really not good to keep up an active friendship or any more than an occasional acquaintanceship with someone you know wants more because they can do irreparable harm to your social life and they're usually hard to get rid of. Possibly a very wise comment and could explain certain things. Link to post Share on other sites
MK67 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I still use the word 'friendzone'. Most of my friends are male and I simply don't do 'friends with benefits. I try to be very clear about drawing the line between mere friends and lovers and why that line is there with that person. For me, lovers are always friends at their base, but friends are not always lovers. Can relationships and our receptivity change over time and personal adjustments? Of course, they can, but with some people, it's just not going happen because of a lack of fundamental attraction and lack of compatibility in interests, personal preferences, values, philosophies, interaction styles, lifestyle, etc. Sometimes however, a person makes a lifestyle or behavioral adjustment or even makes significant strides in maturity or communication skills and as result, becomes desirable as a lover to someone who once only viewed them as a friend. It does happen, so it is worth thinking specifically about WHY a person is in a platonic box rather than in the range of more intimate romantic/sexual interest. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
elaine567 Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Yes, people can and do make the jump from friend to lover and in many respects that is the ideal paradigm. However not all friendships and friendzones are created the same. If someone possesses the traits/characteristics and skills that women find romantically/sexually desirable and they are social friends with someone but no one has made any initiation towards a romantic venture yet, then that scenario has potential to jump from friend to lover. However, if someone is in the friendzone because they do not currently posses the traits/characteristics and skills that women find romantically/sexually desirable, then that will not transition to a romantic/sexual relationship no matter how "nice" the guy is and no matter how good of a social friend he is. ^^^^^this^^^^^ Link to post Share on other sites
Eel751 Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 My ideal relationship is having a guy who is my best friend and also my significant other. Although a friendship is a type of relationship, I think it's better to focus on friendships which can then turn into something more. It's like once the person is your best friend, they know everything about you which is basically like dating, you get to know someone and find out if you want to be in a relationship with them. Having someone be your best friend, you're already half way there. Then you can grow romantically. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Elle Hall Posted July 28, 2016 Share Posted July 28, 2016 ZA Dater, you keep using the word "friendzone". Ie; A guy who's interested in a woman but she only sees him as a friend. But what about "friendship"? Having women in your friend group is a great way to get used to interacting with women. And they will have friends who you meet along the way. But be clear that I'm talking about having friend groups who are mixed gender. Not special 1:1 friends. FWIW, if a guy had no women in his social groups, I'd probably be dubious about him. Why? Because it shows me that he has trouble relating to women. Or doesn't like women. Or can't ever find anything in common with a woman. Any of these would make him a poor candidate for a romantic partner. So, have female friends. You never know what may happen with them or via them. I do know women who have married guys who started out as friends. It's not impossible. But be clear, I'm talking about starting as friends and one day they each get hit by a bolt of romantic lightning.....this is opposed to hoping to claw your way out of the friendzone. And as Jabron says, don't orbit around one or two women hoping that they may one day see you as more. Short Funny Dirty Jokes Hilarious Blonde Jokes Funny Jokes To Tell Your Friends Link to post Share on other sites
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