The 'past is the past' rule. Does it always apply?

[Mazza75]

I’ve been reading these forums for quite a while now trying to find opinions or advice relevant to my situation. I think I may have something a little out of the ordinary so I felt I needed to join and create my own thread.

 

I have always held the view that when it comes to relationships the past is the past. Reading various threads here it seems it’s a common theme. I have been with my fiancé for 7 years, I knew a little about his past and he a little about mine. We knew the general gist of what the past entailed but not the details. I was totally fine with that, there are parts of my past I don’t wish to share, I was a bit wild when I was younger.

 

The last 12 months has tested my resolve about leaving the past in the past. I was just seeking opinion on what others think of this situation.

 

I knew he had 2 kids with 2 different women back from when he was a teenager. He meets his responsibility and pays for them but rarely sees them due to the mothers not wanting that and also location (other side of the country). He was young then, he’s being responsible looking after them financially now. That was enough for me to dig no deeper other than suggesting that he should try to see them more.

 

12 months ago one of them got very sick, it was touch and go whether he would make it, my fiancé was asked to go to the hospital. Obviously he did, everything turned out well for the kid. It was what I learnt while we were there that had me questioning his character. I saw him speaking privately and quite intimately to his ex gf’x mother, she was touching him quite inappropriately. I questioned him over it later that night and it turns out that she is the mother of his other kid. So he has a son with his ex and a daughter with her mom. He kids are only a month different in age.

 

I was furious and it took me a long time to come to terms with this. The story goes that he was with the daughter, the mom seduced him, daughter got pregnant, he was banned from seeing her, mom got pregnant, she has kept it a secret, her husband still believes it is his as does their daughter. He was only 17 at the time.

 

I finally accepted this, you know, the past is the past thing, and moved on. He is a great man in every other aspect so ending it seemed drastic. We had many conversations around whether there would be any other revelations like this one going forward, he assured me there would not be.

 

3 months ago he is contacted on facebook with someone claiming that he is the father of her kid. It was an ex friend with benefits from when he was in his mid 20’s, they only stopped seeing each other when he moved overseas for a job. The kicker to this one is that he was also seeing her twin sister, they all knew about it, all above board, and she has a kid as well. No threesomes or weird stuff, just seeing both of them at different times. He has since done paternity tests. They are both his.

 

This is too much to handle. So now he has 4 kids to 4 different women, a mom and daughter, and 2 twins. He knew nothing of the twins pregnancy’s so there was no lie on his part there.

 

I have moved out, moved back in, moved out again, I don’t know where I am at, it changes day by day. I have been seeing a counselor, she seems more interested in his past that what I want to discuss. I’m sure she has her reasons. Where to now though. He is a great man, I love him, I do believe the past is the past, but this past is so unbelievable that maybe in this case it just can’t be let go?

 

We have been together for 7 years, I have never been happier, I was so looking forward to marrying him. It’s not even the having the kids that worries me, it’s the circumstances. A mom/daughter and twins, I mean what other inappropriate fantasies does he have? Does he secretly dream of my sisters or worse my mom? He assures me that nothing of the sort has happened, he has explained the previous situations where he has actually done nothing wrong. I can’t argue with his logic but….. there is just something that doesn’t sit right.

 

I guess the ultimate question is does the past is the past have limitations? And if so, is what happened here enough to throw the past is the past rule out the window?

[CarrieT]

he has explained the previous situations where he has actually done nothing wrong.

Sure he did.

 

After creating one illegitimate child, he didn't learn his lesson to wear a condom.

 

Which created even more children.

 

And when you are "with someone," you don't have sex with a member of their family.

 

He knows no boundaries and would not be a good role model to any children you two might end up having.

 

Seriously - do you want to try and start a family and have to explain to your children that they have four half-brothers and sisters, all with different Mommies?

 

No way.... I would move on.

[bathtub-row]

For me, it wouldn't matter how great of a man you think he is. He isn't the person you thought he was. No matter what he says, no matter what he does now, his past choices leaves way too many questions for you to ever feel comfortable trusting him. He, basically, is not trustworthy. The things he has done in the past tell a lot about him; which speaks of intrinsic problems that run very deep. Red flags all over the place.

 

I know it will feel like it's killing you to walk away but I don't know how you have any other choice. I could never trust someone like this.

[Mazza75]

After creating one illegitimate child, he didn't learn his lesson to wear a condom.

 

And when you are "with someone," you don't have sex with a member of their family.

 

Very true. But we were all young and stupid once. I am no angel myself.

 

It's obvious now as a 38 year old that these things are wrong, but as a teenager the lines are blurred somewhat. I have not used condoms in my younger days. I'm embarrassed to admit that now but it did happen.

 

He knows no boundaries

 

That is my concern. I guess the question is does he know no boundaries, or did he know no boundaries but now does? I don't really subscribe to the 'leopard can't change its spots' theory. Having said that it is still the question I ask myself.

 

In his defense, we have been together 7 years and until all this came out I had no reason to question his morals.

 

Seriously - do you want to try and start a family and have to explain to your children that they have four half-brothers and sisters, all with different Mommies?

 

No. But I am unable to have children so unless we adopt (which I don't see happening) then that wont be an issue.

[Mazza75]

He, basically, is not trustworthy.

 

This is my sticking point. Is he not trustworthy? Or was he not trustworthy?

 

Since we have been together before this whole mess hit us the only thing he has does wrong (and even then it's debatable) is that when he said he had 2 kids to 2 different women he didn't say that they were related.

 

Apart from that I have never found any issue that would make me think he is not trustworthy.

 

I do get what you are saying, I just want to be sure that I am not judging him on who he was, but on who he is. Doesn't he, doesn't everyone, deserve that?

[bathtub-row]

It's obvious now as a 38 year old that these things are wrong, but as a teenager the lines are blurred somewhat.

 

Frankly, the lines were never that blurred for me at any age to not understand the ramifications sleeping with the parent of someone I was dating.

 

Most people understand this is not a path to take. While I might understand it happening at 17 and being seduced, he shows a pattern.

[bathtub-row]

This is my sticking point. Is he not trustworthy? Or was he not trustworthy?

 

Since we have been together before this whole mess hit us the only thing he has does wrong (and even then it's debatable) is that when he said he had 2 kids to 2 different women he didn't say that they were related.

 

Apart from that I have never found any issue that would make me think he is not trustworthy.

 

I do get what you are saying, I just want to be sure that I am not judging him on who he was, but on who he is. Doesn't he, doesn't everyone, deserve that?

 

The problem is, you don't know if he has been lying to you or not. Liars are very good at deceit. I learned a simple truth over the years where people are concerned -- where there's smoke, there's fire. The fact that he kept something this important from you all this time -- and please note, you had no clue -- is very, very telling.

[CarrieT]

Mazza, you are trying to justify all his excuses to us.

 

We don't matter. Only you matter. If you can handle his past indiscretions than there is no concern. But I don't believe that is the case or you wouldn't have come here

 

You said, "we were all stupid once," but this guys was stupid FOUR TIMES that you know about. Heck, are more children going to come out of the woodwork?

 

Most people learn from their mistakes and after getting one girl pregnant, a smart guy should learn the lesson. This guy did not.

[Mazza75]

Most people understand this is not a path to take. While I might understand it happening at 17 and being seduced, he shows a pattern.

 

Please don't think that I am defending him always, it's not my intention, but I have already asked myself these questions. It's interesting to get others' feelings.

 

Has he really shown a pattern?

 

Yes he was wrong to sleep with the mom of his gf, seduced or not. What else though? Sleeping with two sisters would be a lot of young guys fantasy. Everyone knew about everyone else so it's hard to put this down as part of a pattern. If I had 2 hot guys wanting to sleep with me when I was in my early 20's I can't say with any certainty that I would have said no.

 

The only real other thing is the not wearing of condoms. I ask my self how many others there might be. He can't answer that, no-one can, it's impossible to know.

 

So effectively he had one really weird affair and didn't wear condoms. Once I break it down it's really hard to totally crucify him for that. Am I missing something?

[SammySammy]

Gotta agree with CarrieT.

 

I don't think this guy was stupid at all. I think he got a kick out of breaking all of those taboos. He knew exactly what he was doing.

 

May not have been wise decisions, but he knew what he was doing.

 

And he got a chance to make a fool out of you too. For seven years. By simply telling you "the past is the past". When now the past is clearly your present. When he didn't have the decency to respect you enough to be honest with you and let you decide if you wanted to be involved in a situation like this.

 

Now, you're there with the rest of them. Played by someone who's apparently good at telling women what they want to hear.

 

Wondering what you should do.

[seamos]

I understand what you're saying Mazza75 about being young and stupid once and although he seems to have pushed the limits of stupid to a whole new level I would have to agree w/ you.

 

But the past is the past doesn't apply if two newly discovered offspring suddenly begin costing him (and you) child support. That seems like an absolutely current concern that you have to decide how you want to deal w/.

 

And, even more than that, is catching him letting his ex touch him inappropriately. Another very current concern for you to deal w/.

 

I think this last one also casts a pretty big shadow on his trustworthiness and sort of helps you to answer some of the other questions.

 

Good luck!

[Tribble]

At the beginning you say you knew about 2 kids and he provided for them financially. But if his lovechild with the mother is a secret and everyone thinks its her husbands, how is this? Does he secretly send her money? And for what purpose? How does he/ she/ you even know it is his if its such a secret? Something doesn't quite add up here.

 

 

I firmly believe you shouldn't be judged on your past, especially if you have changed (and I do believe this is possible). But you also have to be a grown up and realise that past behaviour has consequences. In this case, you are dealing with those consequences in the here and now. What you need to decide is if you can deal with those circumstances. I know I couldn't. And you deciding you can't isn't wrong.

[elaine567]

This dude has not only hooked up with some twins, but had sex with a mother and daughter, plus got them knocked up? I need to buy this guy a beer. He knows how to have a good time.

 

He could still have had a good time without impregnating half the country...

[elaine567]

So is he now paying for all four kids? Was that what the FB message was really all about, getting him to start paying child support?

 

That will be a big hit out of your joint earnings if you choose to marry him.

As you cannot have kids, then that is going to grate big time on you.

At the moment it doesn't really affect you, it is his salary, his money, and I guess he makes enough to cover it, but now there are four kids...

When YOU are the one always paying for everything in the marriage, as he cannot afford anything, due to paying for all those kids, that is not going to be very funny at all.

[Satu]

Daughter

Mother

Twin 1

Twin 2

Child 1

Child 2

Child 3

Child 4

 

 

That's more than baggage; thats a whole freight train.

 

Are you sure that you can handle that, even if he has changed?

[Toodaloo]

I guess the ultimate question is does the past is the past have limitations? And if so, is what happened here enough to throw the past is the past rule out the window?

 

Yes it does.

 

I couldn't go out with someone who;

Was a murderer

Was a drug dealer

At any point abused any animals or another human being

 

You see where I am going with this?

 

I depends on what you personal views are. Mine I would be ditching this guy faster that a bag of dog poop. While we all live out fantasies we do not produce children from them... or at least some of us are more responsible.

 

4 children, 4 different mothers... that you know about so far... I have dumped guys for less...

 

There is being wreckless and enjoying your youth and there is being a total idiot... This falls into second bracket. And trust me I have done the whole Father/ Son thing and flung my knickers in the air and had a grand old time... I used condoms and got regularly checked for STD's... Never did twins though...

[Mazza75]

And, even more than that, is catching him letting his ex touch him inappropriately. Another very current concern for you to deal w/.

 

I think this last one also casts a pretty big shadow on his trustworthiness and sort of helps you to answer some of the other questions.

 

I wasn't happy with that. We had some very harsh words over it. But you don't break up with someone because a woman flirted with him.

 

At the beginning you say you knew about 2 kids and he provided for them financially. But if his lovechild with the mother is a secret and everyone thinks its her husbands, how is this? Does he secretly send her money? And for what purpose? How does he/ she/ you even know it is his if its such a secret? Something doesn't quite add up here.

 

I knew of 2 kids to 2 different women. I didn't know they were mother and daughter. He puts money straight into her bank account. Apparently she doesn't want it so it goes straight into a bank account for the kid. He has had a paternity test and it is his.

 

So is he now paying for all four kids? Was that what the FB message was really all about, getting him to start paying child support?

 

The FB message was along the lines of "wow, we finally found you, guess what?" I'm sure you can figure the rest. He showed me as soon as he got the first message before he even replied or accepted the friend request.

 

They haven't asked for money but he is already in the process of setting up a trust fund for them. He is quite well off, money is not really an issue.

 

They are actually lovely women. I could see myself being friends with them if it wasn't for his history with them. That just makes it a bit awkward.

 

Daughter

Mother

Twin 1

Twin 2

Child 1

Child 2

Child 3

Child 4

 

 

That's more than baggage; thats a whole freight train.

 

Are you sure that you can handle that, even if he has changed?

 

No, I'm not sure. I do know I love him. I do know I want to be with him. I do know I don't hold the past against him in as much that I wouldn't be leaving because he did these things. But as has been said there is now a lot of current and ongoing issues we have to deal with. I'm not sure if I can, or if I want to, or if I should. But the thought of throwing away 7 years, especially given I love him, seems wrong.

[Toodaloo]

But the thought of throwing away 7 years, especially given I love him, seems wrong.

 

So how many more children is it OK to have had and not know about?

 

Where do you draw the line? Would a trio of mother, daughter and grandmother all with his babies do it? How about one of his relatives? A cousin or something? I am not really up on what is fashionable these days...

 

Why exactly do you love him?

 

Sounds to me like he is a play boy that is keeping it in his pants for now but perhaps open to offers... A man that does not want to be touch intimately will not be touched that way...

 

Listen I am no saint, far from it. But really there is a line and he has motored over it, he hasn't just stuck a toe over to see what its like. Are you prepared for more children to come out of the wood work over the years and have you had an STD test recently?

 

How old are all these children now?

[BettyDraper]

So much nope. This sounds like a Maury episode. Time to give back the ring and call off the wedding.

 

Investing more time with this loser would make you feel even more foolish than you do now.

[Liam1]

I

I guess the ultimate question is does the past is the past have limitations? And if so, is what happened here enough to throw the past is the past rule out the window?

 

IMO, the past should remain in the past, but the child makes that a tad difficult.

 

Still, even if he wore a condom, it is quite possible that some sperm slipped out.

 

A condom is NEVER 100 percent effective as birth control. It is only 70 to 80 percent effective.

 

Anyway, there is nothing you can do about that child.

 

You said you are happy. Well then be happy.

[Liam1]

Apart from that I have never found any issue that would make me think he is not trustworthy.

 

I do get what you are saying, I just want to be sure that I am not judging him on who he was, but on who he is. Doesn't he, doesn't everyone, deserve that?

 

No one is 100 percent trustworthy.

 

Everyone lies. People who claim they have never lied to their mother, sister, father, priest, are lying to themselves. In those cases, those people can not even trust themselves. Ironic is it not?

 

IMO, the sooner people realize this, the better their lives will be because they will not have UNrealistic expectations.

 

It is human nature to lie for various reasons.

 

IMO, you judge someone for who he is and how he treats you WHEN HE IS WITH YOU.

 

I am curious Mazza, what country are you writing from?

Edited June 29, 2016 by Liam1

[Mr. Lucky]

I knew he had 2 kids with 2 different women back from when he was a teenager. He meets his responsibility and pays for them but rarely sees them due to the mothers not wanting that and also location (other side of the country). He was young then, he’s being responsible looking after them financially now. That was enough for me to dig no deeper other than suggesting that he should try to see them more.

 

This alone should rule him out on character terms. Regardless of financial support, he's abandoned the 2 kids you were aware of.

 

That's not a "youthful" mistake...

 

Mr. Lucky

[wmacbride]

What he did or didn't do when he was younger is not the point. What is the pint is that he didn't tel you any of this until now, and the truth only came out because of a crisis.

 

Would he have hidden all of this from you if that hadn't have happened?

 

If you think the answer is yes, then how can you trust him if he will hide information from you?

 

When I was very young, I had a child who was adopted.

 

I told my husband before we got married, as it was something that could come up in the future, and he deserved to know whatever sort of "baggage" I was bringing into he marriage along with me.

[elaine567]

But the thought of throwing away 7 years, especially given I love him, seems wrong.

Sunk cost fallacy.

[MissBee]

Your situation is evidence of why the whole "past is the past" mantra is absurd.

 

I have never believed that and don't live my life like that. I'm also a researcher by profession, and for the work that I do we look at patterns, history, trends, etc. which always inform the present.

 

None of us are fresh out of the womb and the world doesn't begin anew when we open our eyes each day....all actions and choices are CUMULATIVE. They add up overtime and affect us overtime and have consequences that outlast the moment, day or minute they occurred.

 

This is not to say that people cannot change or things don't vary or that you should shackle yourself to past mistakes. Of course not. But I find that people who are actually self-aware, transparent, truthful and genuinely want to do better, have no problem discussing the past and acknowledging their growth and where they came from without letting it define today or they use it to help them live consciously today. On the other hand, every experience, your case even, where people want to say "the past is the past" and make out any discussions of the past to be this taboo subject you never discuss, is usually a) because they have things to hide in their past that they're ashamed of and that they feel will make them unlovable or undesirable so they are happy to say the past is the past in hopes that their SO will not ask about their past and they don't ask about theirs either beyond the superficial OR b)because for whatever reason denial and burying their head in the sand about a person is more palatable than knowing the truth and making an informed choice so they would rather hurriedly make decisions where they don't have all the facts because the facts might interrupt the fantasy life they're building.

 

I second elaine's post on the sunken cost fallacy. Check it out! But the short is:

"Reasoning that further investment is warranted on the fact that the resources already invested will be lost otherwise, not taking into consideration the overall losses involved in the further investment."

 

At this point, you have all the info (this is how genuine and authentic relationships should be. You learn the good and bad overtime so you can love the whole person and make informed choices, not cherry pick your lives and hide parts to present a watered down image where you're choosing someone you don't truly know) and it's up to you to decide. Also, we're talking some HUGE things here, 4 kids and all sorts of complications, not something small like he didn't tell you who his prom date was in high school or who was his first kiss or that time he had a one night stand in Cancun on spring break. Authentic relationships, esp ones where you're hoping to be married, you should be bestfriends and a couple. I don't know about you, but my bestfriend knows EVERY HUGE thing that has happened in my life and more or less all my misdeeds. And even if there is something I didn't mention, it's never anything huge or on purpose a secret. This should also be the same for a 7 year relationship you want to lead to marriage. No random person in the world should be able to approach your SO with secrets about you, like huge ones, without them saying "Thanks but my partner already told me this long ago..." That's how you feel secure and free in a relationship, knowing that they know your past and are here in the present and hopefully the future and choose you while knowing all the info.....

 

Love is not the end all be all OP. So many people endure abuse, mistreatment and drama and think saying "I love him/her" is the cure all. We can't love others more than we love ourselves and sometimes loving ourselves and even them means walking away. If your counselor isn't working for you, get another one who is helping you in the way you want. I am not here to say "leave him," but I will say that you have to take more control of your life and being informed and having boundaries, values and deal breakers. It seems you're all too willing to be uninformed and brush things away with "past is the past no matter how bad and how it leaks into the present and so what I love him..." and that usually doesn't go so well.

Edited June 29, 2016 by MissBee