The inevitable happened

[DKT3]

If he will not go to MC than tell him you need to go and do so. You can only share much here and advise offered while informative is limited.

 

While there are many considerations for a counselor one of rye most important is to warn you of what both of you will face individuality and what the marriage will endure going forward.

 

I've read that for men that attempt R the true "anger I am out of here" phase does not hit full force till 9-10 months out.

 

It is important not to be caught off guard and react in the moment.

Yes 10 months is the mark were BH's run for the door. But there will be signs. Lack of emotions or reactions, being extra with the kids, being more agreeable then normal, boosted working out or starting all together. Overall seeming more relaxed and calm. Can all be signs that he is coming to peace with the decision/option to leave.

[Lobe]

Did you try playing naked twister this weekend or what?

[alsudduth]

Did you try playing naked twister this weekend or what?

 

No. lol unfortunately it was a busy weekend with kids and such....but I mentioned to him the exercise you posted earlier with all the questions, and I think we are going to try it tomorrow.

 

I did have my apt with my counselor this afternoon....and it went well. I caught her up on everything that happened. I feel renewed.

 

We talked about how while I need to give him some space to be hurt that I can't lose my voice in the relationship because I feel guilty about my affair. She said that just because I had an affair and got caught, doesn't automatically make the previous marriage issues go away. She said that we have to learn to communicate or it will never work. (Say WHAT!? )

 

She helped figure out a way to pose questions to my Husband (she was both our IC when we went through IC) that may help him understand better what the purpose is... for example regarding him not wearing his ring...while we both understand why he isn't wearing it, to ask him what he was thinking when he took it off, and what it will take for him to feel good about putting it back on...something to get the point across that I need him to communicate to me what I need to do to build that trust back.

 

Essentially finding ways to get information out of him that will help me understand what he needs from me to build that trust. I feel like I'm doing the right things, but without some kind of guidance from him or assurance that he feels like I'm doing everything I can at the present time I feel like I'm floundering in the dark.

 

We talked about how I'm afraid that he will up and leave me at any point and how I am afraid of that happening....and she said "who's to say that wouldn't have happened if you hadn't cheated? He did it before, the only difference is that now you feel like he has a valid reason to do so" She asked me what has changed now that makes me feel certain that I want to stay in the marriage, since before I still wasn't 100% sure (which is something you guys have all mentioned before) My answer was that I feel like if he was willing to put in the effort as well, that we could truly build something great if we were both willing. That I saw what he could be prior to getting caught, and that even though I didn't trust it 100% I liked what I was seeing from him.

 

I also said that I am aware that there is a possibility that we won't make it. And she said that regardless of whether we work through it, and through the relationship issues as a whole, that I still have to put on that brave face and be the best person I can be, because it will do me good regardless of whether we stay married or not.

 

So my homework is to do the exercise you mentioned earlier with him, read a book called "The Love Dare" and try to initiate conversations with him that he can easily answer.

[Lobe]

I like your counsellor! She sounds creative and direct!

[Jersey born raised]

Hi,

 

How do you cope with his passive agressive behavior overall? Is the passive aggression stronger towards you?

 

Is your sex more physical in nature than intimate.

 

You have a thread on flirting. How did dail it back? How do you dress?

 

I think your husband believes he married out of his league. Especially now then you make double(?) his income. His response to your sexuality might have based in fear so he sought to shut it down.

 

I think 9 of your threads deal with major issues in a marriage.

 

Finally try to get your IC to help you see things his way and develop skills to help cope with passive aggessive behavior. While not fair one of you needs to lead.

 

Be well

[alsudduth]

 

How do you cope with his passive agressive behavior overall? Is the passive aggression stronger towards you?

 

I haven't noticed an increase in the passive aggressive behavior. Overall he has been mostly as loving as he was prior to finding out about the affair. The only main difference is that there is a little more distance. IE; he is not AS determined to get me to come sit next to him, hasn't asked me how he can make me happy, hasn't done anything overly extravagant to show his love. Like before finding out, I came home one night and he had scrubbed our bathroom from floor to ceiling because "He knew it would make me happy" The other day he brought me home a butter finger because he knows it is my favorite candy bar....so he's still making an effort but in smaller ways.

 

Now, don't get me wrong, I 100% understand why it is this way. And I see it as a good sign that all is not lost, it just brings up some of my insecurities and mistrust of his intentions being real or if they are forced now to keep the peace. As discussed with my counselor yesterday, that is something I need to work on myself, being ok with even the smaller gestures and not letting my insecurities take hold.

 

Is your sex more physical in nature than intimate.

 

You have a thread on flirting. How did dail it back? How do you dress?

 

Sex goes either way, there is a lot of kissing, and face touching which to me is pretty intimate, but other times it is purely physical. I don't feel like it's angry though when it is just a physical encounter....I have had angry sex with him, and it's not that.

 

 

I haven't changed the way I dress, I never felt like I dressed too provocatively, and my husband has only ever indicated that he likes my style and that I have good taste when it comes to how I dress.

 

 

I think your husband believes he married out of his league. Especially now then you make double(?) his income. His response to your sexuality might have based in fear so he sought to shut it down.

 

If that is the case, I don't think he realizes that himself. He has said in the past that at first he was a little jealous and had the "It's not fair" sort of attitude because as I've mentioned I just kind of fell into making as much as do. (Don't get me wrong, I work hard and I am very good at my job and I feel that I earn my salary.) But later he said that he was actually relieved and that it was nice to not feel as much pressure to "bring home the bacon" so to speak.

[alsudduth]

I was hoping to be able to get alone with him this weekend so we could do some real talking, but now he's got the onset of a cold and I feel like I should wait until he feels better.

 

I want him to have a clear head, and when he is exhausted from working so much already (We are trying to pay off debt, so he's working a ton of overtime) combined with a cold now, I feel like the emotional stress might just be too much right now. I'm still going to try and do the questions exercise because it doesn't involve too much effort, but the major stuff we need to talk about, I'll wait until he's feeling better.

[Lobe]

he is not AS determined to get me to come sit next to him, hasn't asked me how he can make me happy, hasn't done anything overly extravagant to show his love... that is something I need to work on myself, being ok with even the smaller gestures and not letting my insecurities take hold.

 

In my last meeting with my IC we had this convo about how change (healing, growth, self-awareness, improvement, forgiveness, whatever) happens with the work that goes in, and you don't actually have to believe it in order for it to have an effect as long as you're willing to commit to it 100%.

 

Here's an example. If you decide you don't believe in the benefits of exercise, but you start running 30 minutes twice a week and doing a yoga class, as long as you are putting the work in, the benefits are going to happen with or without your "belief" in jogging and yoga. It's not like "fake it until you make it" - no faking, half-assing, or giving up. If you fake it, half-ass it or give up, you'll get your self-fulfilling prophecy (failure) but if you commit to putting in the actual amount of sincere and genuine effort, whether you "believe" in the process or not, even if you refuse to ever acknowledge or admit the benefits, you can still reap the benefits.

 

So my question here is two-fold.

 

First, in regards to your husband, it seems like when you had the "upper hand" because he was the cheater, he put in more of an effort to bridge the distance between you. He's still making an effort. He's still "putting in the work." Is it possible that the "grandness" of his gestures have become less because he no longer has to put in the "most" effort, and that the gestures you make ought to be meeting his halfway? This would be tough to do if you are still filled with resentment - what kind of work have you been putting in to get past that?

 

Second is in regards the "grandness" of his gestures and whether it should matter. On Planet Lobe, context plays an important factor. I assure you that on a day when I am PMSing the chocolate bar would be a far "grander" gesture than cleaning the bathroom, which would probably throw me into a rage because when I am PMSing everything annoys me, including my own self. And on a day when I have spent the better part of it raging at my husband/the internet/the house because I have PMS and he has no reason whatsoever to show me any kindness, a chocolate bar might be all he can muster lol. I think maybe you could reframe your insecurities with the knowledge that even if the gesture isn't grand, he still loves you and wants to make your marriage last enough to "put in the work."

[alsudduth]

In my last meeting with my IC we had this convo about how change (healing, growth, self-awareness, improvement, forgiveness, whatever) happens with the work that goes in, and you don't actually have to believe it in order for it to have an effect as long as you're willing to commit to it 100%.

 

Here's an example. If you decide you don't believe in the benefits of exercise, but you start running 30 minutes twice a week and doing a yoga class, as long as you are putting the work in, the benefits are going to happen with or without your "belief" in jogging and yoga. It's not like "fake it until you make it" - no faking, half-assing, or giving up. If you fake it, half-ass it or give up, you'll get your self-fulfilling prophecy (failure) but if you commit to putting in the actual amount of sincere and genuine effort, whether you "believe" in the process or not, even if you refuse to ever acknowledge or admit the benefits, you can still reap the benefits.

 

So my question here is two-fold.

 

First, in regards to your husband, it seems like when you had the "upper hand" because he was the cheater, he put in more of an effort to bridge the distance between you. He's still making an effort. He's still "putting in the work." Is it possible that the "grandness" of his gestures have become less because he no longer has to put in the "most" effort, and that the gestures you make ought to be meeting his halfway? This would be tough to do if you are still filled with resentment - what kind of work have you been putting in to get past that?

 

Second is in regards the "grandness" of his gestures and whether it should matter. On Planet Lobe, context plays an important factor. I assure you that on a day when I am PMSing the chocolate bar would be a far "grander" gesture than cleaning the bathroom, which would probably throw me into a rage because when I am PMSing everything annoys me, including my own self. And on a day when I have spent the better part of it raging at my husband/the internet/the house because I have PMS and he has no reason whatsoever to show me any kindness, a chocolate bar might be all he can muster lol. I think maybe you could reframe your insecurities with the knowledge that even if the gesture isn't grand, he still loves you and wants to make your marriage last enough to "put in the work."

 

I agree with your statements. If I keep on making the effort, regardless of whether I believe it's working or not, or it does work or doesn't....The benefits of me making the effort will eventually come....Be it in my marriage or in a future relationship if it doesn't work out with my H. I feel like while the main immediate goal is to prove my remorse and build trust back with him, the ultimate goal is healing myself and making these efforts part of my personality so that I carry them with me everywhere and in all aspects of my life.

 

Regarding your questions....

Part 1 -There has definitely been a tug of war of sorts on what I call the "one with the power" All that "The one who loves least holds the most power" before it was me who was betrayed and had my feelings shattered - and so I held the power to get what I wanted with little effort. Same for him, I betrayed him, and now he's the one with the power to get what he wants with little effort.

 

Having gone through this cycle a few times now between affairs, and other less extreme issues - I'm just tired. Do I carry resentment still? YES.

 

The difference now, is that I can recognize how exhausting it is to hold on to baggage. Getting caught in an affair not only allowed me break out of the affair fog, having the weight of it off my shoulders was soooooo good for my soul. While I'm not 100% done reeling from the effects of it, it was like a weight off my shoulder - I'm trying to see the Resentment for my husband in the same way - it's unnecessary baggage that I don't need to hold on to anymore. Anytime I start to feel frustrated by a trigger, or something he does that plays into the resentment, I remind myself that it doesn't do the relationship good as a whole to hang onto it.

 

Some days I still get the feeling of panic or paranoia from the affair and thinking about getting caught, I can remind myself that I no longer have that secret, that burden (of the affair itself) and I immediately relax.

I'm trying to implement the same logic when I think about my resentment with my husband by reminding myself of the changes he HAS made, and telling myself that like myself, he can not change what was said or done in the past, he can only try to be a better person than he was yesterday.

 

Which leads to part 2 of your question-

While the shift from extravagant gestures to smaller gestures threw me off and triggered certain insecurities (and ultimately reminding me of the resentment I still carry), my goal is to just try to ask myself when I'm feeling insecure about them, if he is still trying to be better than he was yesterday, is he still working on improving himself so he can improve us? If I can answer that question as yes, then I think I can get to a point of not caring what the gesture is, big or small, and just appreciate the gesture.

 

As with all things, it takes time. But it's something I have a lot of so here I go! Ultimately I want neither one of us to hold the "power" in a relationship, it should be an equal commitment from both of us and if/when we can get to that point, I'll consider us a true success story.

 

*Also as a side note, my grammar and punctuation and everything else is horrid! It's like my hands just diarrhea on the keyboard...It's probably why I don't journal more, because my lack of proper grammar and punctuation drive me crazy, but I'm too lazy about that stuff to fix it! So sorry in advance *

[DKT3]

I agree with your statements. If I keep on making the effort, regardless of whether I believe it's working or not, or it does work or doesn't....The benefits of me making the effort will eventually come....Be it in my marriage or in a future relationship if it doesn't work out with my H. I feel like while the main immediate goal is to prove my remorse and build trust back with him, the ultimate goal is healing myself and making these efforts part of my personality so that I carry them with me everywhere and in all aspects of my life.

 

Regarding your questions....

Part 1 -There has definitely been a tug of war of sorts on what I call the "one with the power" All that "The one who loves least holds the most power" before it was me who was betrayed and had my feelings shattered - and so I held the power to get what I wanted with little effort. Same for him, I betrayed him, and now he's the one with the power to get what he wants with little effort.

 

Having gone through this cycle a few times now between affairs, and other less extreme issues - I'm just tired. Do I carry resentment still? YES.

 

The difference now, is that I can recognize how exhausting it is to hold on to baggage. Getting caught in an affair not only allowed me break out of the affair fog, having the weight of it off my shoulders was soooooo good for my soul. While I'm not 100% done reeling from the effects of it, it was like a weight off my shoulder - I'm trying to see the Resentment for my husband in the same way - it's unnecessary baggage that I don't need to hold on to anymore. Anytime I start to feel frustrated by a trigger, or something he does that plays into the resentment, I remind myself that it doesn't do the relationship good as a whole to hang onto it.

 

Some days I still get the feeling of panic or paranoia from the affair and thinking about getting caught, I can remind myself that I no longer have that secret, that burden (of the affair itself) and I immediately relax.

I'm trying to implement the same logic when I think about my resentment with my husband by reminding myself of the changes he HAS made, and telling myself that like myself, he can not change what was said or done in the past, he can only try to be a better person than he was yesterday.

 

Which leads to part 2 of your question-

While the shift from extravagant gestures to smaller gestures threw me off and triggered certain insecurities (and ultimately reminding me of the resentment I still carry), my goal is to just try to ask myself when I'm feeling insecure about them, if he is still trying to be better than he was yesterday, is he still working on improving himself so he can improve us? If I can answer that question as yes, then I think I can get to a point of not caring what the gesture is, big or small, and just appreciate the gesture.

 

As with all things, it takes time. But it's something I have a lot of so here I go! Ultimately I want neither one of us to hold the "power" in a relationship, it should be an equal commitment from both of us and if/when we can get to that point, I'll consider us a true success story.

 

*Also as a side note, my grammar and punctuation and everything else is horrid! It's like my hands just diarrhea on the keyboard...It's probably why I don't journal more, because my lack of proper grammar and punctuation drive me crazy, but I'm too lazy about that stuff to fix it! So sorry in advance *

 

There is some good stuff here, some of which my own wife dealt with. Trying to make up for the affair while balancing the footlocker full of resentment she packed away since she was 16.

 

I encouraged her to address these things, not to hold on, not to feel she lost her voice because of the affair.

 

On your side, stay consistent, with time you will feel the trust slowly coming back. He is there, which means he is looking for or has found a reason to remain there.

 

I think your doing a great job.

[ShatteredLady]

Can I ask questions?

 

Do you feel that, in any ways, your affair has made it easier to understand & forgive your husband?

 

Do you think you would of reached this point, starting to let go of the resentment, without your affair? Do you believe you could ever loose the resentment without your betrayal?

 

Has it, in a way, evened the playing field...or has it made everything a whole lot worse?

 

Basically, do you feel that, although disastrous, your affair will make it easier to have an 'even' healthy (yet scared) marriage long term?

 

I've been wondering. I hope that you understand. Thank you.

[alsudduth]

Can I ask questions?

 

Do you feel that, in any ways, your affair has made it easier to understand & forgive your husband?

 

Do you think you would of reached this point, starting to let go of the resentment, without your affair? Do you believe you could ever loose the resentment without your betrayal?

 

Has it, in a way, evened the playing field...or has it made everything a whole lot worse?

 

Basically, do you feel that, although disastrous, your affair will make it easier to have an 'even' healthy (yet scared) marriage long term?

 

I've been wondering. I hope that you understand. Thank you.

 

I suppose as far as his affair is concerned, it has made it a little easier....but I still wish it had never happened. Some of the resentment I'm trying to let go has nothing to do with his affair.

 

I would like to think that eventually I would have been able to let go of the resentment and get to the place we are working towards....but I believe someone here said "Without change, nothing changes" or something like that....I think that if neither of us had had an affair, my husband would have had NO motivation to make changes to create a happier marriage, and we still would have been in trouble in our marriage down the line, affair or not.

 

I don't think I could ever say that I am thankful that we had an affair. I could say that while I wish neither ever happened, I do believe we have an upper hand than a one sided affair in a marriage...It just doesn't negate any hurt that either one of us caused the other.

 

I don't believe the affair will make it easier to have a healthy relationship. I think learning from it and choosing to learn and have healthy boundaries, communication, honesty, and forgiveness is what will ultimately make it easier to have a healthy relationship.

[ShatteredLady]

I'm not going to cheat on my H.

 

It's just sometimes I want him to HURT, really hurt!! I want him to know what it feels like. The depth of the agony. Know that it destroys part of you, the faith & innocence of the relationship that can never be resurrected.

 

Do you think he now 'gets-it' in a way that he never could of before?

 

 

I find it interesting that you felt that YOU had the power after his affair & now HE has it. I thought it would be the other way around. I feel like the pathetic looser who has no power now that my H has betrayed me to the core. I felt that me & our children were disposable....well, we WERE (are?) disposable!

 

I guess we're all different, just as marriages & affairs are different. Why do we make life so complicated & so painful? Love used to be so simple.

 

 

Thank you for answering my questions. It's our 20th wedding anniversary soon & my thoughts are torturing me.

Edited August 10, 2016 by ShatteredLady

[alsudduth]

Thank you for answering my questions. It's our 20th wedding anniversary soon & my thoughts are torturing me.

 

We also are hitting the 20 year mark in September. 10 years dating, 10 years married. I hope you find peace.

[alsudduth]

What other resentments are you hanging onto?

 

I have resentment for things like not making me feel like my opinion mattered or that he values anyone else's opinion over mine....for an example:

 

Several years ago he went to the dentist to try and have a tooth pulled and the dentist wouldn't do it saying it went against some kind of dental oath or something.....I told him that it was bull**** and that he needed a second opinion from a different dentist. He said that no that was what it had to be...

Cut to a few weeks later and I asked him about his tooth, and he said Oh I was talking to "a friend of his" and he said that I should just go to another dentist because that lady was crazy so I have an apt with this other dentist next week.....

 

I have resentment over him not including me on big decision like:

Buying a new car and getting a cell phone without telling me a few months after we moved in together. I only found out he got the car when I came home. And I only found out about the cell phone when he pulled it out later that day.

 

I have resentment over actions that I feel were disrespectful to me or left me feeling alone....such as:

When I was pregnant with our son and had a toddler he was going to school at a location that was quite far from our home but closer to his parents, so during the week he would work, go to school, and then go to stay at his parents so he wouldn't have to drive all the way home every night. He would come home on the weekends. One particular instance - I was at work in the morning, and his mom sent me a message asking if he had come home that night because he didn't go to their house. I said no and tried to call him...couldn't reach him on his cell, tried calling work and was told he didn't show up (Did later find out that he had actually called in) I tried to reach him several times until he finally picked up around 3 in the afternoon....he was at home sleeping after going out with some friends after school, crashed at one of their houses and then came home later to sleep...when I got angry with him for not letting me know what was going on, and causing me to worry his response was "I'm a big boy, you are not my mother, I can take care of myself"

 

That leads into the resentment of his schooling itself - I was very supportive of him wanting to do something new for himself - he went through the schooling and when he was done....did NOTHING with it. EVER. to this day he is still paying for those student loans. I feel he has been irresponsible with money in the past, he has a VW hobby (that I also tried to be supportive of, I want him to have hobbies...) but he took a 20k loan out of his 401k (he told me it was for a down payment on a house) that took us 5 years to pay back and then bough a VW to restore with it, that he is still trying to sell and break even on 6 years later. He has lost money on VW investments in the past and it all makes me feel very nervous. I think ultimately he will sell it, but I'm not sure he'll recoup everything he's put into it.

He said it's his money and he could do what he wants with it, yet feels like he wants to tell me what to do with my money and tells me I overspend, and don't know how to budget, yet scoffs when I try to formulate a budget for us to stick to and then it's again with the I can't control his money.

 

The last thing I'll mention was him putting anyone and everyone aside from me on a pedastool - Like Oh this person needs me to do this for them? I'll be right there. You need me pick you up after work? find your own ride. There are specific examples of that as well, but I think this should be a good starting point to give you all an idea of some of the other non affair related things I'm trying to forgive, let go and work through.

 

Those are some examples...I've got an apt but later will follow up with what I see that he has done to try and be better about those kinds of things.

[ShatteredLady]

Thank you for your kind words.

[alsudduth]

Busy night so I couldn't post another reply - but I pull my tarot cards almost daily, just for fun mostly but my final outcome definition was:

 

"Your goals are attainable, but will require constant effort from you, and a willingness to be honest to yourself. When all else fails, fall back on pragmatism and keep moving forward as best you are able."

 

I thought it was appropriate.....

[DKT3]

I have resentment for things like not making me feel like my opinion mattered or that he values anyone else's opinion over mine....for an example:

 

Several years ago he went to the dentist to try and have a tooth pulled and the dentist wouldn't do it saying it went against some kind of dental oath or something.....I told him that it was bull**** and that he needed a second opinion from a different dentist. He said that no that was what it had to be...

Cut to a few weeks later and I asked him about his tooth, and he said Oh I was talking to "a friend of his" and he said that I should just go to another dentist because that lady was crazy so I have an apt with this other dentist next week.....

 

I have resentment over him not including me on big decision like:

Buying a new car and getting a cell phone without telling me a few months after we moved in together. I only found out he got the car when I came home. And I only found out about the cell phone when he pulled it out later that day.

 

I have resentment over actions that I feel were disrespectful to me or left me feeling alone....such as:

When I was pregnant with our son and had a toddler he was going to school at a location that was quite far from our home but closer to his parents, so during the week he would work, go to school, and then go to stay at his parents so he wouldn't have to drive all the way home every night. He would come home on the weekends. One particular instance - I was at work in the morning, and his mom sent me a message asking if he had come home that night because he didn't go to their house. I said no and tried to call him...couldn't reach him on his cell, tried calling work and was told he didn't show up (Did later find out that he had actually called in) I tried to reach him several times until he finally picked up around 3 in the afternoon....he was at home sleeping after going out with some friends after school, crashed at one of their houses and then came home later to sleep...when I got angry with him for not letting me know what was going on, and causing me to worry his response was "I'm a big boy, you are not my mother, I can take care of myself"

 

That leads into the resentment of his schooling itself - I was very supportive of him wanting to do something new for himself - he went through the schooling and when he was done....did NOTHING with it. EVER. to this day he is still paying for those student loans. I feel he has been irresponsible with money in the past, he has a VW hobby (that I also tried to be supportive of, I want him to have hobbies...) but he took a 20k loan out of his 401k (he told me it was for a down payment on a house) that took us 5 years to pay back and then bough a VW to restore with it, that he is still trying to sell and break even on 6 years later. He has lost money on VW investments in the past and it all makes me feel very nervous. I think ultimately he will sell it, but I'm not sure he'll recoup everything he's put into it.

He said it's his money and he could do what he wants with it, yet feels like he wants to tell me what to do with my money and tells me I overspend, and don't know how to budget, yet scoffs when I try to formulate a budget for us to stick to and then it's again with the I can't control his money.

 

The last thing I'll mention was him putting anyone and everyone aside from me on a pedastool - Like Oh this person needs me to do this for them? I'll be right there. You need me pick you up after work? find your own ride. There are specific examples of that as well, but I think this should be a good starting point to give you all an idea of some of the other non affair related things I'm trying to forgive, let go and work through.

 

Those are some examples...I've got an apt but later will follow up with what I see that he has done to try and be better about those kinds of things.

 

I think my wife could have wrote much of this about our first marriage...i got a $ 470k house without her having any say

 

I won't say that her opinion didn't matter because is did, but i can see how she would believe that. I just thought I knew better, and like the saying goes, it's easier to ask forgiveness then permission.

 

It mostly came from an inability to communicate properly.

 

She had alot of resentment, what I found odd once when begun to really communicate was that she thought I was resentment free outside of her affair. She was genuinely shocked that I had so much.

 

Finding a level that you can meet to really communicate is the key. But having a man willing to truly tap into the unease of it all is difficult.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

But having a man willing to truly tap into the unease of it all is difficult.

 

I can relate, so can most men I think. Where do you think the phrase "happy wife, happy life" comes from? Maybe you can read that phrase in different ways, but ive ONLY heard it used when a husband is doing whatever it is he needs to do to avoid conflict. Pretty common stuff right there. The ability to have those uncomfortable talks is hard for us men to learn. I think most would rather avoid it all together. And they say women are more sensitive... pfffft. BS i say! I think men are just as sensitive only about different things then women... generally speaking of course. Heck ive seen both sides ridiculed on this site time after time for the general sensitivities of each gender.

[alsudduth]

So probably the biggest resentment I have has to do yet doesn't have to do with his affair....

 

About a year before he asked me for a divorce, he stopped wearing his wedding ring. he started getting snappy, or distant with me. I continuously reached out to him, asked him if anything was wrong, asked him if he was angry with me, asked him if he loved me, asked him if we were ok, asked him why he wasn't wearing his ring. He gave excuses like he forgot, he misplaced it, it hurt his finger at the gym....

 

Add to that for years not just in the time he took his ring off, I had done everything short of begging for attention from him. I was already feeling quite neglected by him. One day about 6 months maybe before he told me he wanted a divorce, he was acting very cold to me, so I asked him if we were ok. He blew up at me and told me he was tired of dealing with my insecurities. I truly thought I was the problem. I started seeing a counselor to figure out what I was doing so wrong and how to be happy so that my husband could be happy. I just tried to cope with the fact that maybe my H would never be the "give lots of affection and attention" kind of guy......

 

So when he started talking to the OW, and giving her all his attention, and CALLING HER ON THE PHONE just to see how SHE was doing...right in front of me (Because they were "just friends" after all....) I was crushed. Crushed because it turns out he is capable of giving attention...it just wasn't towards me. His affair and betrayal wasn't necessarily physical or even full blown EA in his eyes I'm sure (I say that because I don't think to this day he is truly sorry or remorseful for his actions), but he gave himself to her in a way that he never did to me. To me that was the worst thing he could have done.

 

 

All that said, there are positives that I see from him. He has maintained NC with her as far as I know since about 3 months or so after we started counseling in 2014.

 

With regards to the other resentments, he has made an effort that I see to ask me my opinion on things and gets input from me before making a big decision. He started reaching out to me through the day just to say hello (Before he would get annoyed if I would just call him once in the day to say hello)

If he's at the store he will check in to see if I need anything.

 

More recently (In the last 6 months or so) he asks if I need help with housework or dinner

He makes sure to say good night to the kids the majority of the time and spends a few minutes with them instead of just a generic good night. He reads them stories, and listens to how their day was, etc. (I've always thought he was a good father, I just wanted a little more effort from him there)

He has done things specifically to make me happy. If I'm out for an evening with friends, or have a late apt. etc, he has taken on without complaint fixing dinner for the kids, he makes sure the dog is fed and that the cat has food in his dish. He does laundry (I'm still working on the whole put it away thing...)

 

But overall, I do see that he is trying to "get it" which is a big reason that I think we have something to work with here, and why I think I can let go of the resentment with time.

[alsudduth]

As far as the original thread, because I don't want the purpose of the thread which was my affair to get lost, I am still working towards doing what I need to do with rebuilding trust.

 

Yesterday I took some of my counselors advice. I think I mentioned it a few posts back about asking my H about wearing his ring.

 

He asked me yesterday to work on his neck muscles a little (I'm a bonafide massage therapist ) and I used the opportunity to initiate a conversation.

 

It probably took me a good 5 minutes to work up the courage to even ask him....and I swallowed a lot of tears before I did. But I did. Here is the convo:

 

Me: So while I do understand why you took your ring off, so that I can understand it from your perspective - can I ask what was going through your mind when you came home and took your ring off?

 

Him: Pause.....I can't really remember actually.

 

Me: Have you thought at all about what it might take for you to want to put it back on?

 

Him: Time I guess.

 

Me: I understand that. In the meantime, is there anything else I can be doing to help you feel like I am where I want to be, with you? Or is there anything I'm doing that you don't want me to do that would be helpful?

 

Him: I think you know what you need to do.

 

Me: Yes. besides the obvious though?

 

Him: No not that I can think of.

 

 

The conversation went about how I thought it would....On one hand I'm glad I tried to communicate with him, and I'm glad he at least answered me. But I feel like there is no way if this was such an important ordeal for him to take his ring off (And it IS a big deal in my mind) that he would remember what was going through his mind when he took his ring off, and I feel like that was a generic answer so he didn't have to get "real" with me. I'll try again in a few days - I don't want to overwhelm him right now.

[Lobe]

Him: Pause.....I can't really remember actually.

 

I think this is probably true - he was mad, he took the ring off, it meant nothing to him at the time...

 

Him: I think you know what you need to do.

 

Me: Yes. besides the obvious though?

 

Him: No not that I can think of.

 

My WH has asked if there is anything more that he could be doing and my response is the same as this. I'm at a disadvantage, as I've never been the WS, but since you're played both parts perhaps you could step into your shoes as the betrayed and answer this question for yourself, if he had asked you. Might give you some insight?

 

You've now given me lots of food for thought. I wonder if I need to dig deeper and give my husband a more concrete answer. I know when I ask my husband and he replies like this I want to poke him in the eye with a splinter. It's weird seeing it in a conversation I've played the other part in lol

 

I remember reading a thing on asking better questions but of course I can't find it. The big one I remember is not to ask "yes/no" questions. I also know it said use how/what and not why questions, and always ask follow-up questions. SO perhaps your convo would have gone like this:

 

Me: So while I do understand why you took your ring off, so that I can understand it from your perspective - can I ask what was going through your mind when you came home and took your ring off?

 

Him: Pause.....I can't really remember actually.

 

What were you feeling at the time? How do you feel about it now?

Me: Have you thought at all about what it might take for you to want to put it back on?

 

Him: Time I guess.

 

I miss seeing your ring on your finger.

 

Me: I understand that. In the meantime, is there anything what else I can be doing to help you feel like I am where I want to be, with you? Or is there anything I'm What am I doing that you don't want me to do that would be helpful?

 

Him: I think you know what you need to do.

 

Me: Yes. besides the obvious though?

 

Him: No not that I can think of.

 

I feel like I'm trying to be a mind-reader here and I am afraid I'm reading too much or not enough into things. I really want to start rebuilding what we had and I want us to do it together. How can I help you feel secure and loved?

 

One of the mistakes my husband makes as a WH is that he doesn't ask for what he wants or needs because he doesn't feel like he is allowed to since he was a bad boy. But if he will not identify his unmet needs, I cannot help him meet them.

 

God, affairs are stupid.

[ShatteredLady]

Thank you Lobe. I realize that the way I communicate with my H doesn't help me get what I need. I have a way of giving him an easy answer as part of the question...

 

 

Me - "Do you not wear your ring anymore because I hurt you so bad? Did you take it off in a fit of anger, feeling it was a symbol of our marriage that I betrayed?

 

Him - "Yeh!"

 

Me - "Is it going to take time for you to build trust in me before you wear it again?

 

Him - "Yeh!"

 

Me - "Thank you. Know I know."

 

 

Of course our conversations are me bs & him infidelity. There are so many questions that I desperately need the answers to. We have a 'conversation' (as above) & I often feel better....until I think about it & realize that NOTHING has really been said!

 

Communication after affairs is so hard! For me anyway.....

[Lobe]

Thank you Lobe.

 

Your bill is in the mail. Cash or credit only. :laugh:

[alsudduth]

My counselor told me it was normal to mourn the loss of the AP, She said it's normal to feel all over the place because I'm mourning the loss of the A (Even though it being over is what I want!) and the potential loss of my M if we can't work it out.

 

9 days out of 10 I feel like I'm doing well. I am able to push the OM from my mind and reserve all my focus on healing the M and focusing on my family and myself.

 

On that 10th day I feel really ****ty. Today is a ****ty day. It's early, so I'm sure it will pass, and anytime I find a way to move forward I will. I feel ****ty because I miss him and ****ty FOR missing him. It's a lose lose for me today

 

I think thinking of the OM today was triggered by seeing a post from him to a mutual friend on social media. We are not friends on social media, but because our hometown is small, we have a lot of mutual friends. I remembered that if you block someone you no longer see their posts or comments on even your mutual friends pages. so I blocked him today. We never really engaged at all on social media except in the very beginning, so I didn't even think about blocking him until I saw that one comment on a mutual friends post and thought "OH YEAH! I CAN BLOCK HIM AND NOT HAVE TO SEE HIS POSTS WITH MUTUAL FRIENDS!"

 

Unfortunately, the damage was already done for today so I'll take a few minutes to be sad, and post here, as Loveshack has been like a rock for me to lean on and support me. I really appreciate having a place that I can go and vent the good and the bad and get honest feedback from you all.

 

I really wish sometimes that there really was a switch that you could easily flip to turn feelings off for someone.