The inevitable happened

[alsudduth]

This is an interesting insight because it shows that you were not honest with your wife about where your head was at and instead of discussing it with her you led her on until you were ready to let her go. It's easy to say you don't know if it would have gone that way had she not persisted, but hit's just as easy to speculate that had you been honest in the first place she might have backed off. How long would you actually expect any reasonable person to just life in a silent hell being led to believe everything was OK while their partner hung the threat of divorce over their head? Seriously, my first husband threatened to leave me on a regular basis and I lived in a perpetual state of anxiety...

 

I agree with this, Lobe. I just want there to be communication.

 

Als, while I agree you're maybe pushing harder than your husband wants to deal with right now, I also think it's fair of you to say what you are feeling. Is there a way you can express your feelings without implying that there is pressure on him to decide? Tell him how much you appreciate his kindness, no but afterwards. Thank him for being in your life, no but afterwards. When he does share something, thank him for being open and honest so he learns to trust that he can say things without you jumping all over him.

 

I will try that. I will say, that I don't feel like I'm overly pushing him...I don't think asking him to have an honest conversation every other week is too much. Outside of trying to initiate a conversation after my counseling apts, I don't bring it up at all, I try to go on every day, being the best wife I can be.

 

I still have a lot of hurt too from the previous issues - it doesn't change my willingness to want to work on the relationship, and I know it will take time to get to those conversations...To answer your earlier question about whether we talk about his affair anymore, not really. We talk more about the aftermath of it, because I want him to really understand that the way he handled it, how closed off he was, and the circumstances around asking me for a divorce was probably the most painful thing I have ever been through. And that is not an exaggeration. I don't think he fully understands the depth of hurt that caused me. I think he is getting there, but because my betrayal is newer, it's like we have to start at the end and work our way back.

 

DKT3 said at the time, he had found peace with divorce and learning to co parent.....I think ultimately I am too, but it doesn't mean that is what I want. Because we have had conversations of divorce before, we've talked about what co parenting would look like - If divorce is what comes from this, I've made peace with that....but again, it's not what I want, and I'll do my part to not have divorce be our final outcome.

[road]

Recovery is a two to five year process. Asking every week are we still recovering is more than just being annoying to the BH.

 

 

It is one huge pain to him.

 

 

OP, just do the work and let time take it's cost.

 

 

You want guarantees?

 

 

There are no guarantees in recovery let alone marriage.

 

 

Where is the guarantee that you were not going to have an affair and do the OM?

 

 

The way your BH entered the marriage in good faith. You have to enter recovery in good faith. That means do not be a door mat but also do not be a ball buster. It means you have to be 100% transparent in your life with your BH.

 

 

Without transparency your BH will never be feel safe with you in the marriage for he never will know if NC is never broken. Without this the broken trust will never be repaired and recovery shall fail. So stop complaining, stop the worrying, do the heavy lifting.

[Lobe]

So stop complaining, stop the worrying, do the heavy lifting.

 

Let's not forget that her husband had an affair as well and hasn't really done the heavy lifting from that...

[road]

Let's not forget that her husband had an affair as well and hasn't really done the heavy lifting from that...

 

Well if both of them is just going to sit there and wait to get recovery started it will never get done.

[Lobe]

Well if both of them is just going to sit there and wait to get recovery started it will never get done.

 

Aye, there's the rub.

[alsudduth]

I'm feeling pretty depressed in general lately. I've stopped working out, I drink more than I should, and eat more than I should. I don't want to go to the office, I don't want to be social. I can't concentrate on work.

 

I know I need to snap out of it, It's hard. I've tried anti depressants in the past, but I always seem to forget to take them so I figure what's the point. I feel like I'm waiting for something to motivate me, but I don't know what it is. I just want to feel good about myself again. I want my H to feel like I'm worth loving again.

[alsudduth]

Nothing new to update, taking it day by day. I'm still here and he's still here, I suppose that is all I can ask for at this point. It feels like we are strangers. In people that have had a successful R, is that normal in the beginning?

[turnera]

No. If you are trying to R, you simply MUST be actively doing things to change what you had. Are you doing anything like that? If not, no wonder you're depressed.

 

To that end, you may need some temporary antidepressants, just for a few months, to help give you some energy.

[DKT3]

This is an interesting insight because it shows that you were not honest with your wife about where your head was at and instead of discussing it with her you led her on until you were ready to let her go. It's easy to say you don't know if it would have gone that way had she not persisted, but hit's just as easy to speculate that had you been honest in the first place she might have backed off. How long would you actually expect any reasonable person to just life in a silent hell being led to believe everything was OK while their partner hung the threat of divorce over their head? Seriously, my first husband threatened to leave me on a regular basis and I lived in a perpetual state of anxiety...

 

Als, while I agree you're maybe pushing harder than your husband wants to deal with right now, I also think it's fair of you to say what you are feeling. Is there a way you can express your feelings without implying that there is pressure on him to decide? Tell him how much you appreciate his kindness, no but afterwards. Thank him for being in your life, no but afterwards. When he does share something, thank him for being open and honest so he learns to trust that he can say things without you jumping all over him.

 

Lastly, I think you need to be honest with both him and yourself about your personal deal breakers - living with a man who refuses to put his ring on and is holding you hostage indefinitely while he decides if he wants a divorce or not is no way to live. It's emotionally and psychologically abusive. It's OK for you to say that MC or IC is not optional, because if you both had affairs, you both have sh*t to sort out. Your affair was YOUR fault, his affair was HIS fault, but the broken marriage belongs to BOTH of you.

 

I was absolutely not honest with her about where my head was, one of my biggest regrets. It was cowardly and conflict avoiding.

 

My point is I wasn't given room to breathe and get my head together as she hammered me about the state of the marriage, keep in mind she was still denying the affair, even though we bith knew. She knew I knew.

 

Als, following you story and honestly it seems normal progression at this stage, good days then bad days then blah days. And yes him being there is a positive, be patient on expecting him to validate you at this point.

[road]

I'm feeling pretty depressed in general lately. I've stopped working out, I drink more than I should, and eat more than I should. I don't want to go to the office, I don't want to be social. I can't concentrate on work.

 

I know I need to snap out of it, It's hard. I've tried anti depressants in the past, but I always seem to forget to take them so I figure what's the point. I feel like I'm waiting for something to motivate me, but I don't know what it is. I just want to feel good about myself again. I want my H to feel like I'm worth loving again.

 

Nothing new to update, taking it day by day. I'm still here and he's still here, I suppose that is all I can ask for at this point. It feels like we are strangers. In people that have had a successful R, is that normal in the beginning?

 

 

Sunday take your BH out. Bike ride, hike in a park, relax on the beach and pack a lunch. Garage sale even just to look. Quality time is needed to reconnect and help repair the damage.

[Jersey born raised]

Does you husband believe he married way out of his league, that your the big show and at best he is just double A league material. What would you say if in a moment of candor I always figured you moved up and on.

 

I often wonder about the women who post here about verbally and emotional husbands. I wonder if they are so insecure the only way they can hold onto a wife is to have her lose faith in herself and cling to them.

 

If a person demeans you step back and ask yourself is there validity to it or not. If not then why did they say it? Ignorance or a need to lower you and make themselves feel better about there pathetic life? Wisdom: don't bother arguing with drunks or losers.

[alsudduth]

Well if both of them is just going to sit there and wait to get recovery started it will never get done.

 

I don't understand this comment....on one hand you all tell me to stop talking to him about it, to let him figure it out on his own....and on the other hand you tell me stop sitting around waiting.

 

I am not sitting around waiting...I am seeing my counselor every other week, I do the right thing by being an open book to my H, when the OM contacted me I told my husband about it and didn't respond, I offer quality time to my H, I offer time away to my H, I offer massages, kisses, dates, love to my H. What else exactly am I supposed to do to "get recovery started"?

[alsudduth]

Does you husband believe he married way out of his league, that your the big show and at best he is just double A league material. What would you say if in a moment of candor I always figured you moved up and on.

 

I often wonder about the women who post here about verbally and emotional husbands. I wonder if they are so insecure the only way they can hold onto a wife is to have her lose faith in herself and cling to them.

 

If a person demeans you step back and ask yourself is there validity to it or not. If not then why did they say it? Ignorance or a need to lower you and make themselves feel better about there pathetic life? Wisdom: don't bother arguing with drunks or losers.

 

I couldn't tell you if he thinks that or not.....I would like to hope not! I remember once after he told me he wanted a divorce, aside from a few outbursts and a very dramatic night when he initially told me, I was ready to roll up my sleeves and go all in with what he wanted. He had asked about the possibility of staying in the guest room, since he couldn't afford to move out, and I had told him very nicely that I would never kick him out - that he was the father of my children and I would never see him struggle (too hard ) to live. Anyway - he said something along the lines of "No one is possibly that good...it's like you are too good to be true" So at one time maybe - I'm sure that illusion is gone now though that he knows I'm capable of horrible things.

[alsudduth]

No. If you are trying to R, you simply MUST be actively doing things to change what you had. Are you doing anything like that? If not, no wonder you're depressed.

 

To that end, you may need some temporary antidepressants, just for a few months, to help give you some energy.

 

I'm going to make a Dr. apt this week to get on an anti depressant for awhile.

 

I made a list of weekly goals I can accomplish that will make me feel better...and my sister in law recently backed out of being my H's workout buddy since they have such different goals...so starting Tuesday (I bowl on Mondays) I am going to start working out with my H. I hope that will be a good thing for us.

 

- On that note, how would you guys approach this....This is one of the things that annoys me about my H.

He's been getting really into working out and planning his diet around his workouts, which is fine I don't have a problem with that, In fact the last time I was going to go shopping I asked him to sit down with me and meal plan so we can come up with acceptable meals for the whole family because it would be more cost effective, and we wouldn't be in the kitchen over and over. Anyway - that didn't happen and he went to the store last night and bought over 70 buck of food....just for him. to plan his own meals for breakfast/lunch/dinner with no thought to me and the kids...because "he didn't want to spend more than he already had"

 

When he does stuff like this, it makes me feel like he wants to live like a bachelor only having to think of himself, and then I wonder why I'm trying so hard to keep it together if it isn't what he wants?

[kgcolonel]

Al

 

I see this as a statement that is indicative of his hurt. It looks to me that he may be isolating himself in his pain. Ask your therapist about this. Any chance you two can see a therapist together?

[alsudduth]

Al

 

I see this as a statement that is indicative of his hurt. It looks to me that he may be isolating himself in his pain. Ask your therapist about this. Any chance you two can see a therapist together?

 

As of right now he is still not willing to go to counseling. I have an apt. this morning with my counselor though. I'll bring it up to her. Thanks!

[road]

I don't understand this comment....on one hand you all tell me to stop talking to him about it, to let him figure it out on his own....and on the other hand you tell me stop sitting around waiting.

 

I am not sitting around waiting...I am seeing my counselor every other week, I do the right thing by being an open book to my H, when the OM contacted me I told my husband about it and didn't respond, I offer quality time to my H, I offer time away to my H, I offer massages, kisses, dates, love to my H. What else exactly am I supposed to do to "get recovery started"?

 

Quality time is not about talking about the affair.

 

 

Quality time, 20 hours a week is about reconnecting, creating new pleasant memories, repairing the broken trust, creating an environment where the BH wants to stay married.

 

 

Plan family outings. Hard for a dad to turn down kids wanting to go to beach, etc. He refuses you go any way with the kids. Kids tell him of the great time they had eventually dad feels left out and eventually goes. Eventually he will go out with just you.

 

 

So how many times have you done family outings? Not asked, but went?

[road]

I'm going to make a Dr. apt this week to get on an anti depressant for awhile.

 

I made a list of weekly goals I can accomplish that will make me feel better...and my sister in law recently backed out of being my H's workout buddy since they have such different goals...so starting Tuesday (I bowl on Mondays) I am going to start working out with my H. I hope that will be a good thing for us.

 

- On that note, how would you guys approach this....This is one of the things that annoys me about my H.

He's been getting really into working out and planning his diet around his workouts, which is fine I don't have a problem with that, In fact the last time I was going to go shopping I asked him to sit down with me and meal plan so we can come up with acceptable meals for the whole family because it would be more cost effective, and we wouldn't be in the kitchen over and over. Anyway - that didn't happen and he went to the store last night and bought over 70 buck of food....just for him. to plan his own meals for breakfast/lunch/dinner with no thought to me and the kids...because "he didn't want to spend more than he already had"

 

When he does stuff like this, it makes me feel like he wants to live like a bachelor only having to think of himself, and then I wonder why I'm trying so hard to keep it together if it isn't what he wants?

 

 

Good that you will work at the same time.

 

 

However this bowling.

 

 

Mixed league?

 

 

Why are you not bowling with your BH?

 

 

Bad idea you bowling. Because it leaves your BH home wondering what you are doing. Does nothing to repair the broken trust your affair created.

[alsudduth]

Quality time is not about talking about the affair.

 

 

 

So how many times have you done family outings? Not asked, but went?

 

We don't always talk about the affair. I check in every other week after my apts to bring up anything I've been having trouble talking to him about, and give him an opportunity to talk about anything bothering him.

 

As for family outings - we as an immediate family are very close. We haven't had a lot of time to do family specific outings with school and him working a ton of overtime lately.

 

But - when we have time we go to dinner (both as a family and together) The kids went camping with their grandparents over the weekend and so my husband and I had the weekend together. He worked most of it, but we did communicate better I feel over the weekend. We take the kids to the movies often, or just to walk around the mall. (We live in a very hot climate, so outdoor activities are a no go right now)

[alsudduth]

Good that you will work at the same time.

 

 

However this bowling.

 

 

Mixed league?

 

 

Why are you not bowling with your BH?

 

 

Bad idea you bowling. Because it leaves your BH home wondering what you are doing. Does nothing to repair the broken trust your affair created.

 

I have been bowling for over a year - with one of my best friends, her husband and her sister in law's husband. My H is fine with this, I have asked him to join, but he has a bad shoulder and can't bowl for long periods of time. I have asked him to come and just visit with us. but he is just not interested in that. I am not worried about the bowling being an issue, I have asked him a few times if it bothers him - usually before I sign up for the next league I check in to make sure he is ok with me continuing to bowl in the league. He used to be an avid bowler - I also text him and send him updates of how I'm doing in my games (along with pictures so he knows I'm actually there) and tell him that I wish he would come sometimes so he can hang out with us. He is always welcome to come, I have nothing to hide there. (or anywhere now)

 

Interesting side note about bowling - my grandparents used to big bowlers also. I was helping my mom clean out my grandparents home after my grandfather passed - and found a news clipping from a long time ago (Before my husband and I had even started dating) of my grandparents with HIS grandparents. They use to bowl in a league together. so I have an old newspaper clipping of our grandparents together from years before we started dating. I think it is pretty cool.

[alsudduth]

As of right now he is still not willing to go to counseling. I have an apt. this morning with my counselor though. I'll bring it up to her. Thanks!

 

So my counselor said his action was selfish. She said I shouldn't have let it go, and that I've lost my voice due to feeling guilty. She says I have to put my foot down if I want him to participate in the relationship. (and of course there is no guarantee, but that I will regret it if I don't tell him what I need)

 

She said the worst that will come of telling him how I feel is that he will say no, or tell me it's over - and that that is a possibility I'm aware of happening anyway - there is nothing I can do about his actions or what he chooses to do, so to not be shy in telling him what I want and expect out of the relationship.

 

she told me not to forget that he had an affair also, and to not let my guilt over my bad choices turn me into a doormat.

[DKT3]

I really think your therapist is horrible. Allowing him some time doesn't make you a doormat.

 

I thought you were impatient, but now I'm starting to think you Are a control freak, and you not having some measure of control is making you batty..

 

PS bowling is terrible, maybe because I sux at it.

[alsudduth]

I really think your therapist is horrible. Allowing him some time doesn't make you a doormat.

 

I thought you were impatient, but now I'm starting to think you Are a control freak, and you not having some measure of control is making you batty..

 

PS bowling is terrible, maybe because I sux at it.

 

 

I don't think I'd go so far as to say I'm a control freak, but maybe feeling a little out of control of the situation is true....

 

Here is the thing. My H and I have been struggling for years now, following the same pattern over and over. One of us hurts the other, the other shuts down until the other breaks or until they make their own hurtful mistake and then repeat. I'm just over that, and I don't want to fall into the same pattern. I'm trying to break a cycle.

[Scarletwolf]

snip

 

 

*If you really wanted to end it, you'd just end it.

 

But you don't, so you haven't.

 

 

Take care.

 

As rough as this sounds, it's totally true. I never hesitated to end a fifteen year old marriage because I was done with the lies and the could be situations.

[alsudduth]

I really think your therapist is horrible. Allowing him some time doesn't make you a doormat.

 

I feel like I should clarify. Him needing time is not what I'm talking about here. My guilt over what happened causes me to withdrawal and feel like I don't have a place to voice my opinion or tell him when he does something that bothers me.