The inevitable happened

[harrybrown]

I have been bowling for over a year - with one of my best friends, her husband and her sister in law's husband. My H is fine with this, I have asked him to join, but he has a bad shoulder and can't bowl for long periods of time. I have asked him to come and just visit with us. but he is just not interested in that. I am not worried about the bowling being an issue, I have asked him a few times if it bothers him - usually before I sign up for the next league I check in to make sure he is ok with me continuing to bowl in the league. He used to be an avid bowler - I also text him and send him updates of how I'm doing in my games (along with pictures so he knows I'm actually there) and tell him that I wish he would come sometimes so he can hang out with us. He is always welcome to come, I have nothing to hide there. (or anywhere now)

 

Interesting side note about bowling - my grandparents used to big bowlers also. I was helping my mom clean out my grandparents home after my grandfather passed - and found a news clipping from a long time ago (Before my husband and I had even started dating) of my grandparents with HIS grandparents. They use to bowl in a league together. so I have an old newspaper clipping of our grandparents together from years before we started dating. I think it is pretty cool.

 

 

this is what caused a D in my family.

 

the wife was caught having an A with another member of the team.

 

She was sitting on his lap when my son walked in on her.

 

I paid for the D. Not a good idea. if you want to R.

Edited September 19, 2016 by harrybrown
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[alsudduth]

this is what caused a D in my family.

 

the wife was caught having an A with another member of the team.

 

She was sitting on his lap when my son walked in on her.

 

I paid for the D. Not a good idea. if you want to R.

 

This would never happen. Even if I was single there would never be anything with anyone that I bowl with. Ever. I am 115% positive. And again, my kids come with me sometimes, and my husband is welcome anytime. He can pop in even unannounced and I would be happy to see him there

[alsudduth]

I go back and forth on this, but today I'm really feeling like I can't do this. I don't know if I have it in me to have this cloud over us for forever. I have read lots of posts about how in order for R to work, there has to be a solid foundation in the beginning. I don't know if we have that.

 

I asked my H a question about something during the time we were going to counseling and when he had asked for a divorce - he said that he never thinks about that time. I told him that I think about it all the time. I told him that go back and forth with feeling like I hate the OW and wishing I could be her. I don't feel like he has ever liked me the way that he seemed to like her. He said "Why do you keep holding onto that sh^*"

 

Isn't that up to me? Just like him getting to be angry and upset for as long as it takes him? Why is it okay for him to tell me to get over it already when he can't do the same?

[BluesPower]

It is not. But you know that you guys did not handle his affair the right way either.

 

This is going to take a lot of work. You are the latest affair, so yours has the most impact right now. It is not fair, or right, it just is.

 

Is he still not into the R 100%? He needs to be if he want the marriage to work out.

 

I also don't think that you had to have a good foundation for R to work. I think you have to love each other. If you do I think you can build a better marriage, in the long run.

 

But, if you do not love each other then you really should call in the dogs and piss on the fire. Because it will never work.

[alsudduth]

 

Is he still not into the R 100%? He needs to be if he want the marriage to work out.

 

He said he still cannot justify putting his ring back on, and he still refuses to go to marriage counseling....so I'd say no he isn't 100% into an R.

 

I also don't think that you had to have a good foundation for R to work. I think you have to love each other. If you do I think you can build a better marriage, in the long run.

 

But, if you do not love each other then you really should call in the dogs and piss on the fire. Because it will never work.

 

I think we love each other very much, I don't think I could ever not love him and vice versa....but I don't know if at this point it's enough to keep us together.

[turnera]

He doesn't love you. He loves having you around. For HIS benefit.

 

If he loved YOU, he would be doing whatever it takes to help you feel better.

[Jersey born raised]

His response to you left me stone cold. He now knows what it feels like to be the BS and yet he does not realize what his EA (PA ?) if tatbisbthe case what is his hang up about your EA?

 

Turnera is right. This marriage is for and about him. If he does not file you need to.

[Jersey born raised]

Bye the way he does not love you, he loves you for how you make it feels about himself. He reminds me about the CW song "stupid boy" by Keith Urban.

[DKT3]

I would not say he doesn't love his wife, we all show love differently. What I get is he is conflict avoiding. From what I've read he doesn't want to talk about either affair.

 

Als I truly believe that your issue is you two are really speaking a different language. After all the years together you still don't seem to know how to communicate to him or how he trys to communicate with you..

[alsudduth]

He does love me. I do not doubt that. And I love him, without a doubt. The problem is in realizing that it may not be enough. The fact that I'm willing to give up so soon, the fact that he IS capable of putting effort into things he is passionate about, the fact that our relationship has never been something he's put a lot of effort into, the hurt I still feel from 3 years ago and beyond....all those things make me feel like this isn't going to work.....and then my daughter does something like make a scrapbook for our anniversary (which was Friday) celebrating how much she loves us, and we run with our tails tucked between our legs from the decision to stay or go.

 

I've started to re-read the book "Too Good to leave, Too Bad to stay" I'm hoping I can get some answers.

 

I'm very remorseful for having an affair, I wish I hadn't complicated our relationship with that hurt, but it does mean that now I have to consider as some have posted, that based on the aftermath of everything from the last 3 years and beyond, is there a chance that we are meant to even stay together?

[road]

He does love me. I do not doubt that. And I love him, without a doubt. The problem is in realizing that it may not be enough. The fact that I'm willing to give up so soon, the fact that he IS capable of putting effort into things he is passionate about, the fact that our relationship has never been something he's put a lot of effort into, the hurt I still feel from 3 years ago and beyond....all those things make me feel like this isn't going to work.....and then my daughter does something like make a scrapbook for our anniversary (which was Friday) celebrating how much she loves us, and we run with our tails tucked between our legs from the decision to stay or go.

 

I've started to re-read the book "Too Good to leave, Too Bad to stay" I'm hoping I can get some answers.

 

I'm very remorseful for having an affair, I wish I hadn't complicated our relationship with that hurt, but it does mean that now I have to consider as some have posted, that based on the aftermath of everything from the last 3 years and beyond, is there a chance that we are meant to even stay together?

 

You can read books.

 

 

You can think you realize this or that.

 

 

You cannot force recovery.

 

 

What to I mean?

 

 

Example: Why do they not put the horses behind the wagon?

 

 

Horses pull better then they can push.

 

 

A WW can not push a BH through recovery.

 

 

Though a WW can lead by example and pull a BH into recovery and working on making the marriage better.

 

 

Dealing with the affair not going anywhere then stop pushing that. Instead do things to make the marriage better. Interact the way you want BH to do with you. This is leading by example. Get out and do things as husband and wife. Make life good. This will not happen in one step. Though never taking steps the trip will never get done.

 

 

Why stay married if life sucks? If life sucks why reconnect in bed? Keep hitting BH with little nuggets of life with WW can be better than before D day.

[DKT3]

He does love me. I do not doubt that. And I love him, without a doubt. The problem is in realizing that it may not be enough. The fact that I'm willing to give up so soon, the fact that he IS capable of putting effort into things he is passionate about, the fact that our relationship has never been something he's put a lot of effort into, the hurt I still feel from 3 years ago and beyond....all those things make me feel like this isn't going to work.....and then my daughter does something like make a scrapbook for our anniversary (which was Friday) celebrating how much she loves us, and we run with our tails tucked between our legs from the decision to stay or go.

 

I've started to re-read the book "Too Good to leave, Too Bad to stay" I'm hoping I can get some answers.

 

I'm very remorseful for having an affair, I wish I hadn't complicated our relationship with that hurt, but it does mean that now I have to consider as some have posted, that based on the aftermath of everything from the last 3 years and beyond, is there a chance that we are meant to even stay together?

I really believe that the issue is a matter of not being enough patience on your side, you want it to be better now, you talk about the last three years without truly accepting that for most of that time you where involved with another man, in love and all that, if course your marriage wasn't idea, maybe partly because your husband wasn't making much if an effort, but definitely because you were not making an effort, I mean you were f-ing another man so how much effort could you have put up. Now, all of a sudden you want instant gratification, to be validated because you are finally making an effort. It doesn't work that way. You have to allow him time.

 

Honestly what you're doing is running, you may not see it that way but its what your doing. You don't truly want to face the damage, so it's easier to chalk it up and love not being enough, again absolving yourself if the actual damage you've created.

 

It's tough to truly accept (as the primary caregiver of the relationship, which most women are) that your actions have put you in this place. Not saying he didn't play a role, he did, but you have no control over that. Yet what you do have control of, you f-ed up. Until you fully authenticly accept responsibility you will be able to justify excuses and blame him or the situation.

 

Love is enough if that love motivates you to truly appreciate what it can be given you have patience and do the work.

[stillafool]

He does love me. I do not doubt that. And I love him, without a doubt. The problem is in realizing that it may not be enough.

 

 

You two love each other in a family way but are no longer in love with each other and haven't been for quite some time. I don't see them falling back in love so IMO they should file for divorce and at last find happiness.

[alsudduth]

Probably a bad idea to start a convo with him when I'm having a bad day, but here it is (Via text):

 

Me: so on a serious note - how do you feel about me going to my moms on Friday, and if I go can you pick the kids up from school on Friday?

 

Him: Go ahead.

 

Me: Ok. But how do you feel about it

 

Him: I feel like you are gonna do whatever you want to do.

 

Me: I'm not going to go.

 

Him: Why

 

Me: Because I don't need you to communicate with me to know that you aren't ok with it. Your answer to me is telling enough.

 

Him: Let me be more clear. I feel like you are going to do whatever it is you're going to do regardless of where you are.

I appreciate that you are letting me know when you get contacted. I don't know if that means you're just being open about it or if you're really not talking to him.

 

Me: Honestly it makes me feel like all the effort I'm putting into this is for nothing. I don't think your opinion of me will ever change.

I created that opinion myself so I don't blame you for feeling that way.

It just is what it is.

 

Him: You said you were very hurt when I asked for a divorce initially. That pendulum swings both ways. Probably still hurting over that and it's been three years? I feel like you're pushing me to wrap up my feelings and forgive/forget in what? A month or two? It doesn't work like that.

 

Me: I feel like I would be less hurt and possibly over it at this point if I felt like you were remorseful for everything that happened, but I don't think you feel like you did anything wrong. I don't know why you even went to counseling. I'm not asking you to forgive and forget after 3 months. I'm only asking you to communicate with me. We have 0 trust and 0 communication in our relationship. If we can't agree to work on at least one of those things, our marriage won't last.

 

Him: Your opinion about how I feel couldn't be more wrong. Which really is an affirmation to me of how you assume the worst of me while pointing your finger at me and accusing me of always thinking the worst of you.

 

Me: Well I guess those are types of problems we find ourselves in when we don't communicate

 

Him: I've said multiple times in the past my opinion of you isn't what you're thinking it is. Obviously you don't remember or don't believe what I say about so if you're not going to believe what I say why say anything about it?

 

Me: Instead of just telling me I'm wrong, how about giving me a clue

 

Him: A clue about what?

 

Me: What your opinion if me is

 

Him: I don't know what my opinion of you is recently

 

Me: If you don't know then how do you know if I'm wrong or not?

 

After a break of talking since I was at an apt:

 

Me: I'm sorry that I seem to be all over the place. I am sorry for all the pain I've caused us. I guess I'm just trying to determine also if staying together is the best answer.

 

 

------And go.

[road]

Probably a bad idea to start a convo with him when I'm having a bad day, but here it is (Via text):

 

Me: so on a serious note - how do you feel about me going to my moms on Friday, and if I go can you pick the kids up from school on Friday?

 

Him: Go ahead.

 

Me: Ok. But how do you feel about it

 

Him: I feel like you are gonna do whatever you want to do.

 

Me: I'm not going to go.

 

Him: Why

 

Me: Because I don't need you to communicate with me to know that you aren't ok with it. Your answer to me is telling enough.

 

Him: Let me be more clear. I feel like you are going to do whatever it is you're going to do regardless of where you are.

I appreciate that you are letting me know when you get contacted. I don't know if that means you're just being open about it or if you're really not talking to him.

 

Me: Honestly it makes me feel like all the effort I'm putting into this is for nothing. I don't think your opinion of me will ever change.

I created that opinion myself so I don't blame you for feeling that way.

It just is what it is.

 

Him: You said you were very hurt when I asked for a divorce initially. That pendulum swings both ways. Probably still hurting over that and it's been three years? I feel like you're pushing me to wrap up my feelings and forgive/forget in what? A month or two? It doesn't work like that.

 

Me: I feel like I would be less hurt and possibly over it at this point if I felt like you were remorseful for everything that happened, but I don't think you feel like you did anything wrong. I don't know why you even went to counseling. I'm not asking you to forgive and forget after 3 months. I'm only asking you to communicate with me. We have 0 trust and 0 communication in our relationship. If we can't agree to work on at least one of those things, our marriage won't last.

 

Him: Your opinion about how I feel couldn't be more wrong. Which really is an affirmation to me of how you assume the worst of me while pointing your finger at me and accusing me of always thinking the worst of you.

 

Me: Well I guess those are types of problems we find ourselves in when we don't communicate

 

Him: I've said multiple times in the past my opinion of you isn't what you're thinking it is. Obviously you don't remember or don't believe what I say about so if you're not going to believe what I say why say anything about it?

 

Me: Instead of just telling me I'm wrong, how about giving me a clue

 

Him: A clue about what?

 

Me: What your opinion if me is

 

Him: I don't know what my opinion of you is recently

 

Me: If you don't know then how do you know if I'm wrong or not?

 

After a break of talking since I was at an apt:

 

Me: I'm sorry that I seem to be all over the place. I am sorry for all the pain I've caused us. I guess I'm just trying to determine also if staying together is the best answer.

 

 

------And go.

 

This is not recovering a marriage. This saying I am not serious about recovering.

 

 

Actions speak louder than words. All talk no walk gets no one very far.

 

 

No WW can get a guarantee that recovery will be successful. Either they commit to the work without a guarantee or quit the marriage.

[alsudduth]

This is not recovering a marriage. This saying I am not serious about recovering.

 

 

Actions speak louder than words. All talk no walk gets no one very far.

 

 

No WW can get a guarantee that recovery will be successful. Either they commit to the work without a guarantee or quit the marriage.

 

that's basically what I've been saying the last couple days....that I don't know if I can commit to recovery. I've spent many many many years pre affair trying to make the marriage work - if I couldn't do it then (Meaning I still made him unhappy enough to have an affair and ask me for a divorce), how am I supposed to do it now with each of us having had an affair to complicate things?

 

I get it. Actions speak louder than words, commit to a change, etc etc....that's part of the problem, why am the only one that has to do these things when he also had an affair? My point is that it won't work if I am the only one committing to making things better.

[alsudduth]

I really believe that the issue is a matter of not being enough patience on your side, you want it to be better now, you talk about the last three years without truly accepting that for most of that time you where involved with another man, in love and all that, if course your marriage wasn't idea, maybe partly because your husband wasn't making much if an effort, but definitely because you were not making an effort, I mean you were f-ing another man so how much effort could you have put up. Now, all of a sudden you want instant gratification, to be validated because you are finally making an effort. It doesn't work that way. You have to allow him time.

 

This is going to make a lot of people yell at me I'm sure - but even when I was talking to another guy (not f-ing by the way, though still I admit it was an affair) I feel like I STILL gave more effort into the marriage than he has or ever did. And I'm pretty sure my H would agree.

 

Honestly what you're doing is running, you may not see it that way but its what your doing. You don't truly want to face the damage, so it's easier to chalk it up and love not being enough, again absolving yourself if the actual damage you've created.

 

I will always regret the pain I've caused to my H, regardless of whether we stay together or not. I may very well be running, but not because I don't want to face the damage, but because I don't want to repeat history.

[DKT3]

You've just confirmed my thoughts on your situation as did your husband. You are far too impatient and your therapist is horrible for suggesting you push him.

 

An added problem I see in that conversation is you aren't actually listening to your husband which is obvious by his frustration. .

[merrmeade]

This is going to make a lot of people yell at me I'm sure - but even when I was talking to another guy (not f-ing by the way, though still I admit it was an affair) I feel like I STILL gave more effort into the marriage than he has or ever did. And I'm pretty sure my H would agree.

 

I will always regret the pain I've caused to my H, regardless of whether we stay together or not. I may very well be running, but not because I don't want to face the damage, but because I don't want to repeat history.

 

These two statements contradict each other just like everything you say. Let me get this straight: You had the last affair. Dday was recent and you still had contact with AP. If this correct, it's completely clear to me - and seems so to your BH. It's not about his A 3 years ago. It's not about work you did on the marriage in the past. With Dday this recent AND your continued duplicity, it can only be about what YOU just did to your husband. His reaction is clearly saying his every thought about you and, for example, your possibly going to your mothers, is that HE DOES NOT TRUST you because you have not been trustworthy. That's all.

 

Making yourself the victim, challenging his reaction, bringing up the past is all foul play, selfish, insensitive, blame-shifting plain and simple. You did this. It's fresh. You have to accept his mistrust , bitterness, and excessive need for evidence of your faithfulness.

 

Or you can keep blaming him and feel justified for dealing the final blow.

[alsudduth]

These two statements contradict each other just like everything you say. Let me get this straight: You had the last affair. Dday was recent and you still had contact with AP. If this correct, it's completely clear to me - and seems so to your BH. It's not about his A 3 years ago. It's not about work you did on the marriage in the past. With Dday this recent AND your continued duplicity, it can only be about what YOU just did to your husband. His reaction is clearly saying his every thought about you and, for example, your possibly going to your mothers, is that HE DOES NOT TRUST you because you have not been trustworthy. That's all.

 

Making yourself the victim, challenging his reaction, bringing up the past is all foul play, selfish, insensitive, blame-shifting plain and simple. You did this. It's fresh. You have to accept his mistrust , bitterness, and excessive need for evidence of your faithfulness.

 

Or you can keep blaming him and feel justified for dealing the final blow.

 

How is that a contradiction? that is two separate things. I am not blaming him for me having an affair. I have been doing everything I can to show him I'm sorry for that. Why can't we talk about all the issues in the marriage?

 

I need a break from you guys. I know to take what you all say with a grain of salt, but it's clear to me that you are not here to help. you are here to point out how it doesn't matter what I say or do or feel or relate, you will just find a way to make a WW be horrible and in genuine. I know what my relationship is, I know what I need to figure out.

 

Thank you for the honest feedback.

[understand50]

How is that a contradiction? that is two separate things. I am not blaming him for me having an affair. I have been doing everything I can to show him I'm sorry for that. Why can't we talk about all the issues in the marriage?

 

I need a break from you guys. I know to take what you all say with a grain of salt, but it's clear to me that you are not here to help. you are here to point out how it doesn't matter what I say or do or feel or relate, you will just find a way to make a WW be horrible and in genuine. I know what my relationship is, I know what I need to figure out.

 

Thank you for the honest feedback.

 

Alsudduth,

 

It is perfectly possible that yes you did put "more" into the marriage, even with your EA. I do not doubt that. You do need to decide if you are going to stay of leave. You both having affairs, defiantly shows that there are real issue, past the mundane. Look, both of you are going to have to work hard to make this happen, and if he is not willing, even if he had not had his affair, I could see, and would support you, leaving.

 

Looking at the past and seeing what you gave is self-defeating. Your husband, can never make that up, as you can not undo what you did. You need to decide that a future with him is what you want, and you must BOTH want the same thing. With out this, there can be no reconciliation.

 

As for needing a break, I get it. Love Shack can be a meat grinder, but where else to you get all the opinions you could possibly need or desire? Please keep writing, and only take what you think you need. We all have our own life experiences, and they do not dove tail with yours. We can only give out advise from our vantage point. Its free, so value it as you may. In the end, I think you have gotten more out of Love shack, then you have given, but that is just my observation.

 

As always I wish you luck......

[harrybrown]

Sometimes when you have a broken leg and another health problem, you have to fix the broken leg first before you work on the other health problem.

 

So first, you have to work on the last A, and after that, you work on the other issues.

 

You could try to contact affair recovery. They are online. They might be of help to you and your H.

 

If you want to try, anyway.

 

Hope you find some positive results. I also hope you have outed your affair partner so you are protecting your H over the OM.

[alsudduth]

I went to urgent care this morning as I'm feeling so very overwhelmed with everything. I can't get in with my dr for another week or so. I think my thoughts have been all over the place because I've been fighting my depression for a long time now wanting to believe that I could handle it myself. I can't.

 

I got an anti depressant to start this morning along with some Xanax to get me through until the anti depressant kicks in. I haven't thought clearly in some time. I'm looking forward to getting out of the hole.

 

One thing I want to make clear that I feel you all don't really get, is that just because I'm having these feelings of uncertainty - doesn't mean I have totally given up, or stopped providing to my husband what he needs. I am still NC with OM, I am still trying to be sensitive to his feelings, I am still trying to be there for him, whatever he needs from me. So believe me just because I have these doubts and uncertainty, doesn't mean I've fully just given up on us. I'm just trying to figure my stuff out.

 

My main goals are trying to help my H understand that I realize what my affair has done to him (and I'm not perfect, I'm impatient and anxiety riddled, and scared) while at the same time trying to understand and help my H understand how and why I got to the point of me choosing poorly to have an Affair. I just also happen to KNOW from experience, that if we handle it how we have been - which is me doing all the work to try to repair our relationship (notice I'm not saying me doing all the work to repair the trust he lost in me, that IS on me to do), I will build resentment towards him. I don't want that. I know this affair is my problem, and regardless of what you all think, I am doing my part to show him that I have no intentions of making the same mistake again. In addition to that, I am trying to do my part in letting him know that the past vicious cycle we have continually been in is not going to work for me. For that cycle to break we have to both knowledge and work to keep that from happening. Those are 2 separate goals. 2 separate issues. People are allowed to have more than one goal they are trying to accomplish at times.

 

My having an affair was devastating to him. I get it. I do. I have not lost sight of that or what I need to do to repair that damage. what can I say....I'm a multi tasker.

 

Anyway - I feel like my last post will "confirm" for you all that I'm running. so in an effort to not "run away" I wanted to try one more time to explain where I'm coming from. And please don't tell me that the past has nothing to do with what is happening now. It's not a blame game to tell him how I'm feeling - I usually hate using the term PTSD - but that is a good way to describe what I'm feeling. when I put myself out there to him, my anxiety goes through the roof, I self loath, I withdrawal, and I get very scared about being hurt by him again. Yes I realize that I put myself in this most recent situation, but it doesn't make the issue and feelings I have invalid.

Edited September 27, 2016 by alsudduth

[DKT3]

We had another poster about a year ago in your same situation, she was iffy and upset because her husband wouldn't be physical with her and wasn't doing enough. Just like you I told her she was running. Guess what happened? She asked husband to move out, then proceeded to re-engage with MM for another round of heartbreak.

 

Once the longing for MM gets bad, just like before D-day one tends to focus on what the BS isn't doing, with little focus on what positives they are doing.

[harrybrown]

Do your feelings for the OM outweigh the feelings that you have for your H?

 

How does your H feel about you still being emotionally with the OM?

 

Have you outed the OM to his family to show you are putting your H before the OM?

Edited September 27, 2016 by harrybrown
edit