The inevitable happened

[alsudduth]

Doesn't sound good...it's like you seem to be doing the Honorable thing by staying married, yet your impatient about your husband being committed...I'm confused because that doesn't sound like a woman who wants to be married to her husband.

 

I think the impatience comes more from not knowing what else to do that I'm not already doing. I just want to know what he's thinking. If he's thinking about it as much as he says he is, I just want to know what he's thinking....even if he's still unsure about wanting to stay or go, I'd like for us to have those conversations. I try to be very open with him about my thoughts, maybe what I'm having a harder time explaining and it comes across as being impatient for an answer to stay or go, is that I really just want to know what he's thinking about all the time!

 

Anyway, its really hard to post here sometimes. I feel like I can't be honest or mis say one word for fear of it being completely picked apart in order to make me out to be an in genuine person who doesn't really want to work things out with her husband, and is just here for some kind of amusement. This is just a very confusing time for both of us, we both have lots of feeling and emotions about everything, and it's a lot to process.

[kgcolonel]

I think the impatience comes more from not knowing what else to do that I'm not already doing. I just want to know what he's thinking. If he's thinking about it as much as he says he is, I just want to know what he's thinking....even if he's still unsure about wanting to stay or go, I'd like for us to have those conversations. I try to be very open with him about my thoughts, maybe what I'm having a harder time explaining and it comes across as being impatient for an answer to stay or go, is that I really just want to know what he's thinking about all the time!

 

Anyway, its really hard to post here sometimes. I feel like I can't be honest or mis say one word for fear of it being completely picked apart in order to make me out to be an in genuine person who doesn't really want to work things out with her husband, and is just here for some kind of amusement. This is just a very confusing time for both of us, we both have lots of feeling and emotions about everything, and it's a lot to process.

 

 

Al...I hear you on the harshness and the picking apart on misspoken words...I think a couple of things happen here. One, all the posters have to go on is what is posted by you so in this instance, they, instead of listening very carefully, they are reading very carefully. Also several on this site have been the betrayed spouse and are deeply hurt and may not be completely objective....please look to the posts that are supportive and take the suggestions and advice selectively.

 

IMO, you sound very remorseful to me and I really hope you and your H are able to move on from this in a positive and healthy marriage.

[DKT3]

Al...I hear you on the harshness and the picking apart on misspoken words...I think a couple of things happen here. One, all the posters have to go on is what is posted by you so in this instance, they, instead of listening very carefully, they are reading very carefully. Also several on this site have been the betrayed spouse and are deeply hurt and may not be completely objective....please look to the posts that are supportive and take the suggestions and advice selectively.

 

IMO, you sound very remorseful to me and I really hope you and your H are able to move on from this in a positive and healthy marriage.

 

My point isn't about remorse. It purely if she really truly wants to be married. In the note she wrote to herself it comes off as being married is keeping the lovers apart, and not she is choosing to stay married because she loves and wants to be with her husband.

 

She seems genuinely confused about husband or lover yet she wants him to commit.

[Lobe]

My point isn't about remorse. It purely if she really truly wants to be married. In the note she wrote to herself it comes off as being married is keeping the lovers apart, and not she is choosing to stay married because she loves and wants to be with her husband.

 

She seems genuinely confused about husband or lover yet she wants him to commit.

 

I don't think she sounds confused or conflicted - she clearly said that while there is comfort in knowing he misses her that more than bringing her comfort, him contacting her merely reminds her of being at the lowest point of her life, where she hated the person she had become. Her letter was (I think) completely honest and realistic, not what her husband would "want" to hear or what she is "supposed" to say but speaking from her heart. It's not like it said, "oh, OM, how I miss thee I am so sad I can't talk with you because you know... "marriage" - too bad my husband will never stack up to your awesome... hopefully once I put in my mandatory time with him I'll be free to join you in fantasyland again!" Affair or not, it was a break up and jut because the wayward has to mourn it in private out of respect for their BS's feelings doesn't mean the mourning ain't happening.

[alsudduth]

So I had another conversation with my husband last night....

 

I asked him if he feels like he may be willing to go to marriage counseling again now and he said he doesn't know, which is better than an adamant NO before, so I take that as progress. He also said he doesn't know if he would be willing to do IC again.

 

I told him that I feel like it might help him sort out his feelings on what he truly wants because he deserves to be happy, and that I don't want him to just push it all aside to get through the next day.

 

Then I told him that while I appreciate and welcome the affection he has shown to me during this time, that I was confused because of him saying that he was too lazy to get divorced during our last conversation - and he said he didn't even remember our last conversation and that he was pretty sure he was just joking. I told him that that makes me feel like it's pointless to bring up the conversations, if he is just going to forget about them, or joke about it.

 

I told him that I don't expect for him to have an answer today about whether to stay or go, but that I need to know that he's thinking about it, and that I want to know what he's thinking so that we can work through it together, even if the end result is that we don't stay together. I tried to explain that before he told me he wanted a divorce, I thought that we were on the right track, and him telling me he wanted a divorce caught me completely off guard and that it was upsetting to me that for almost a year before I felt like something was off in our relationship and that every time I brought it up, it was "We are fine!" "Nothing is wrong" "it's your own insecurity" He finally said once "I'm so tired of dealing with your insecurities" (that was about a month before he told me he wanted a divorce) So at that time I believed it was me making up issues all in my head, and I started seeing my counselor. I had gotten to a point where I felt like I could let it go, and take it for what it was and then BAM he told me he wanted a divorce and had been feeling that way for about 10 months....he had stopped wearing his ring for about the last year, and made excuses like he lost it, or it hurt his finger at the gym.

 

I told him that this was why him not wearing his ring was so upsetting, that while I understand why right now, that it brings back the memories of him internally deciding to get out of the marriage without talking to me about the issues and that I just don't want that to happen again. He said he sees what I'm saying.

 

At some point in the conversation he mentioned that mostly he thinks about why I stayed for so long if I was so unhappy, I told him that I didn't know, but that part of it was maybe that I knew neither one of us was putting forth the necessary effort and that maybe I was holding out for that. Along with being afraid of the life change involved in getting a divorce. I asked him the same question and he said he didn't know.

 

I told him that I felt like our relationship deserved an honest effort and that that was what I intended to do. I told him that if he can't get past it, if we can't make the marriage work, then the least I could do was be good to him for the time we have left and that that was what I intended to do.

 

So overall, not a great conversation - but one that I think cleared up some things, and to let him know that I'm not going to give up just because he's not sure yet what he wants to do. I feel like we've taken a step back, but I suppose that is normal.

 

Our physical intimacy has stopped. He's been sick and working a lot, so it could just be that, but I can't help but feel like he doesn't want to be intimate.

[DKT3]

I don't know if you have seen any of our story here, but we were in almost the exact situation. My wife was very much like you in the sense that she pushed me for answers when I wasn't ready to give them.

 

I recall this in vivid details, I had made the final decision to divorce gave the go ahead to have her served on a Wednesday, that Thursday she knew something was off. She was persistent Friday into Saturday about my feelings on where we were. Finally I told her we are great and going in the direction we should. That following Monday she was served at her shop.

 

I was similar to your husband in the sense that I wasn't sure which direction I would go but the constant pressure pushed me to divorce. I was leaning towards it and didn't feel comfortable discussing it with her because I didn't want to deal with all the emotions, mostly hers because I had reached a very calm place and was comfortable with divorce, what it meant and how it would be co-parenting. I can honestly say I'm not sure it would have gone the same had she not worked so hard to gain control over my healing journey. This is the point I'm trying to get across, but I didn't want to interject my story.

 

He has to be allowed to heal at his pace, you never allowed him control in your affair, if you want the marriage you have to accept his pace. This seems to be about you wanting some level of control thus the likely true nature behind your impatience.

[Lobe]

I told him that I felt like our relationship deserved an honest effort and that that was what I intended to do. I told him that if he can't get past it, if we can't make the marriage work, then the least I could do was be good to him for the time we have left and that that was what I intended to do.

 

So overall, not a great conversation - but one that I think cleared up some things, and to let him know that I'm not going to give up just because he's not sure yet what he wants to do. I feel like we've taken a step back, but I suppose that is normal.

 

Our physical intimacy has stopped. He's been sick and working a lot, so it could just be that, but I can't help but feel like he doesn't want to be intimate.

 

I kind of feel like there's that weird power shift again. Your hubby cheated first and while that does not justify your affair it certainly should put you guys on level footing as far as your understanding of how it feels to be betrayed. His pain is not greater or more valid than yours was. Do you ever talk about his affair anymore or is it all about you now?

[Lobe]

I was similar to your husband in the sense that I wasn't sure which direction I would go but the constant pressure pushed me to divorce. I was leaning towards it and didn't feel comfortable discussing it with her because I didn't want to deal with all the emotions, mostly hers because I had reached a very calm place and was comfortable with divorce, what it meant and how it would be co-parenting. I can honestly say I'm not sure it would have gone the same had she not worked so hard to gain control over my healing journey. This is the point I'm trying to get across, but I didn't want to interject my story.

 

This is an interesting insight because it shows that you were not honest with your wife about where your head was at and instead of discussing it with her you led her on until you were ready to let her go. It's easy to say you don't know if it would have gone that way had she not persisted, but hit's just as easy to speculate that had you been honest in the first place she might have backed off. How long would you actually expect any reasonable person to just life in a silent hell being led to believe everything was OK while their partner hung the threat of divorce over their head? Seriously, my first husband threatened to leave me on a regular basis and I lived in a perpetual state of anxiety...

 

Als, while I agree you're maybe pushing harder than your husband wants to deal with right now, I also think it's fair of you to say what you are feeling. Is there a way you can express your feelings without implying that there is pressure on him to decide? Tell him how much you appreciate his kindness, no but afterwards. Thank him for being in your life, no but afterwards. When he does share something, thank him for being open and honest so he learns to trust that he can say things without you jumping all over him.

 

Lastly, I think you need to be honest with both him and yourself about your personal deal breakers - living with a man who refuses to put his ring on and is holding you hostage indefinitely while he decides if he wants a divorce or not is no way to live. It's emotionally and psychologically abusive. It's OK for you to say that MC or IC is not optional, because if you both had affairs, you both have sh*t to sort out. Your affair was YOUR fault, his affair was HIS fault, but the broken marriage belongs to BOTH of you.

[alsudduth]

This is an interesting insight because it shows that you were not honest with your wife about where your head was at and instead of discussing it with her you led her on until you were ready to let her go. It's easy to say you don't know if it would have gone that way had she not persisted, but hit's just as easy to speculate that had you been honest in the first place she might have backed off. How long would you actually expect any reasonable person to just life in a silent hell being led to believe everything was OK while their partner hung the threat of divorce over their head? Seriously, my first husband threatened to leave me on a regular basis and I lived in a perpetual state of anxiety...

 

I agree with this, Lobe. I just want there to be communication.

 

Als, while I agree you're maybe pushing harder than your husband wants to deal with right now, I also think it's fair of you to say what you are feeling. Is there a way you can express your feelings without implying that there is pressure on him to decide? Tell him how much you appreciate his kindness, no but afterwards. Thank him for being in your life, no but afterwards. When he does share something, thank him for being open and honest so he learns to trust that he can say things without you jumping all over him.

 

I will try that. I will say, that I don't feel like I'm overly pushing him...I don't think asking him to have an honest conversation every other week is too much. Outside of trying to initiate a conversation after my counseling apts, I don't bring it up at all, I try to go on every day, being the best wife I can be.

 

I still have a lot of hurt too from the previous issues - it doesn't change my willingness to want to work on the relationship, and I know it will take time to get to those conversations...To answer your earlier question about whether we talk about his affair anymore, not really. We talk more about the aftermath of it, because I want him to really understand that the way he handled it, how closed off he was, and the circumstances around asking me for a divorce was probably the most painful thing I have ever been through. And that is not an exaggeration. I don't think he fully understands the depth of hurt that caused me. I think he is getting there, but because my betrayal is newer, it's like we have to start at the end and work our way back.

 

DKT3 said at the time, he had found peace with divorce and learning to co parent.....I think ultimately I am too, but it doesn't mean that is what I want. Because we have had conversations of divorce before, we've talked about what co parenting would look like - If divorce is what comes from this, I've made peace with that....but again, it's not what I want, and I'll do my part to not have divorce be our final outcome.

[road]

Recovery is a two to five year process. Asking every week are we still recovering is more than just being annoying to the BH.

 

 

It is one huge pain to him.

 

 

OP, just do the work and let time take it's cost.

 

 

You want guarantees?

 

 

There are no guarantees in recovery let alone marriage.

 

 

Where is the guarantee that you were not going to have an affair and do the OM?

 

 

The way your BH entered the marriage in good faith. You have to enter recovery in good faith. That means do not be a door mat but also do not be a ball buster. It means you have to be 100% transparent in your life with your BH.

 

 

Without transparency your BH will never be feel safe with you in the marriage for he never will know if NC is never broken. Without this the broken trust will never be repaired and recovery shall fail. So stop complaining, stop the worrying, do the heavy lifting.

[Lobe]

So stop complaining, stop the worrying, do the heavy lifting.

 

Let's not forget that her husband had an affair as well and hasn't really done the heavy lifting from that...

[road]

Let's not forget that her husband had an affair as well and hasn't really done the heavy lifting from that...

 

Well if both of them is just going to sit there and wait to get recovery started it will never get done.

[Lobe]

Well if both of them is just going to sit there and wait to get recovery started it will never get done.

 

Aye, there's the rub.

[alsudduth]

I'm feeling pretty depressed in general lately. I've stopped working out, I drink more than I should, and eat more than I should. I don't want to go to the office, I don't want to be social. I can't concentrate on work.

 

I know I need to snap out of it, It's hard. I've tried anti depressants in the past, but I always seem to forget to take them so I figure what's the point. I feel like I'm waiting for something to motivate me, but I don't know what it is. I just want to feel good about myself again. I want my H to feel like I'm worth loving again.

[alsudduth]

Nothing new to update, taking it day by day. I'm still here and he's still here, I suppose that is all I can ask for at this point. It feels like we are strangers. In people that have had a successful R, is that normal in the beginning?

[turnera]

No. If you are trying to R, you simply MUST be actively doing things to change what you had. Are you doing anything like that? If not, no wonder you're depressed.

 

To that end, you may need some temporary antidepressants, just for a few months, to help give you some energy.

[DKT3]

This is an interesting insight because it shows that you were not honest with your wife about where your head was at and instead of discussing it with her you led her on until you were ready to let her go. It's easy to say you don't know if it would have gone that way had she not persisted, but hit's just as easy to speculate that had you been honest in the first place she might have backed off. How long would you actually expect any reasonable person to just life in a silent hell being led to believe everything was OK while their partner hung the threat of divorce over their head? Seriously, my first husband threatened to leave me on a regular basis and I lived in a perpetual state of anxiety...

 

Als, while I agree you're maybe pushing harder than your husband wants to deal with right now, I also think it's fair of you to say what you are feeling. Is there a way you can express your feelings without implying that there is pressure on him to decide? Tell him how much you appreciate his kindness, no but afterwards. Thank him for being in your life, no but afterwards. When he does share something, thank him for being open and honest so he learns to trust that he can say things without you jumping all over him.

 

Lastly, I think you need to be honest with both him and yourself about your personal deal breakers - living with a man who refuses to put his ring on and is holding you hostage indefinitely while he decides if he wants a divorce or not is no way to live. It's emotionally and psychologically abusive. It's OK for you to say that MC or IC is not optional, because if you both had affairs, you both have sh*t to sort out. Your affair was YOUR fault, his affair was HIS fault, but the broken marriage belongs to BOTH of you.

 

I was absolutely not honest with her about where my head was, one of my biggest regrets. It was cowardly and conflict avoiding.

 

My point is I wasn't given room to breathe and get my head together as she hammered me about the state of the marriage, keep in mind she was still denying the affair, even though we bith knew. She knew I knew.

 

Als, following you story and honestly it seems normal progression at this stage, good days then bad days then blah days. And yes him being there is a positive, be patient on expecting him to validate you at this point.

[road]

I'm feeling pretty depressed in general lately. I've stopped working out, I drink more than I should, and eat more than I should. I don't want to go to the office, I don't want to be social. I can't concentrate on work.

 

I know I need to snap out of it, It's hard. I've tried anti depressants in the past, but I always seem to forget to take them so I figure what's the point. I feel like I'm waiting for something to motivate me, but I don't know what it is. I just want to feel good about myself again. I want my H to feel like I'm worth loving again.

 

Nothing new to update, taking it day by day. I'm still here and he's still here, I suppose that is all I can ask for at this point. It feels like we are strangers. In people that have had a successful R, is that normal in the beginning?

 

 

Sunday take your BH out. Bike ride, hike in a park, relax on the beach and pack a lunch. Garage sale even just to look. Quality time is needed to reconnect and help repair the damage.

[Jersey born raised]

Does you husband believe he married way out of his league, that your the big show and at best he is just double A league material. What would you say if in a moment of candor I always figured you moved up and on.

 

I often wonder about the women who post here about verbally and emotional husbands. I wonder if they are so insecure the only way they can hold onto a wife is to have her lose faith in herself and cling to them.

 

If a person demeans you step back and ask yourself is there validity to it or not. If not then why did they say it? Ignorance or a need to lower you and make themselves feel better about there pathetic life? Wisdom: don't bother arguing with drunks or losers.

[alsudduth]

Well if both of them is just going to sit there and wait to get recovery started it will never get done.

 

I don't understand this comment....on one hand you all tell me to stop talking to him about it, to let him figure it out on his own....and on the other hand you tell me stop sitting around waiting.

 

I am not sitting around waiting...I am seeing my counselor every other week, I do the right thing by being an open book to my H, when the OM contacted me I told my husband about it and didn't respond, I offer quality time to my H, I offer time away to my H, I offer massages, kisses, dates, love to my H. What else exactly am I supposed to do to "get recovery started"?

[alsudduth]

Does you husband believe he married way out of his league, that your the big show and at best he is just double A league material. What would you say if in a moment of candor I always figured you moved up and on.

 

I often wonder about the women who post here about verbally and emotional husbands. I wonder if they are so insecure the only way they can hold onto a wife is to have her lose faith in herself and cling to them.

 

If a person demeans you step back and ask yourself is there validity to it or not. If not then why did they say it? Ignorance or a need to lower you and make themselves feel better about there pathetic life? Wisdom: don't bother arguing with drunks or losers.

 

I couldn't tell you if he thinks that or not.....I would like to hope not! I remember once after he told me he wanted a divorce, aside from a few outbursts and a very dramatic night when he initially told me, I was ready to roll up my sleeves and go all in with what he wanted. He had asked about the possibility of staying in the guest room, since he couldn't afford to move out, and I had told him very nicely that I would never kick him out - that he was the father of my children and I would never see him struggle (too hard ) to live. Anyway - he said something along the lines of "No one is possibly that good...it's like you are too good to be true" So at one time maybe - I'm sure that illusion is gone now though that he knows I'm capable of horrible things.

[alsudduth]

No. If you are trying to R, you simply MUST be actively doing things to change what you had. Are you doing anything like that? If not, no wonder you're depressed.

 

To that end, you may need some temporary antidepressants, just for a few months, to help give you some energy.

 

I'm going to make a Dr. apt this week to get on an anti depressant for awhile.

 

I made a list of weekly goals I can accomplish that will make me feel better...and my sister in law recently backed out of being my H's workout buddy since they have such different goals...so starting Tuesday (I bowl on Mondays) I am going to start working out with my H. I hope that will be a good thing for us.

 

- On that note, how would you guys approach this....This is one of the things that annoys me about my H.

He's been getting really into working out and planning his diet around his workouts, which is fine I don't have a problem with that, In fact the last time I was going to go shopping I asked him to sit down with me and meal plan so we can come up with acceptable meals for the whole family because it would be more cost effective, and we wouldn't be in the kitchen over and over. Anyway - that didn't happen and he went to the store last night and bought over 70 buck of food....just for him. to plan his own meals for breakfast/lunch/dinner with no thought to me and the kids...because "he didn't want to spend more than he already had"

 

When he does stuff like this, it makes me feel like he wants to live like a bachelor only having to think of himself, and then I wonder why I'm trying so hard to keep it together if it isn't what he wants?

[kgcolonel]

Al

 

I see this as a statement that is indicative of his hurt. It looks to me that he may be isolating himself in his pain. Ask your therapist about this. Any chance you two can see a therapist together?

[alsudduth]

Al

 

I see this as a statement that is indicative of his hurt. It looks to me that he may be isolating himself in his pain. Ask your therapist about this. Any chance you two can see a therapist together?

 

As of right now he is still not willing to go to counseling. I have an apt. this morning with my counselor though. I'll bring it up to her. Thanks!

[road]

I don't understand this comment....on one hand you all tell me to stop talking to him about it, to let him figure it out on his own....and on the other hand you tell me stop sitting around waiting.

 

I am not sitting around waiting...I am seeing my counselor every other week, I do the right thing by being an open book to my H, when the OM contacted me I told my husband about it and didn't respond, I offer quality time to my H, I offer time away to my H, I offer massages, kisses, dates, love to my H. What else exactly am I supposed to do to "get recovery started"?

 

Quality time is not about talking about the affair.

 

 

Quality time, 20 hours a week is about reconnecting, creating new pleasant memories, repairing the broken trust, creating an environment where the BH wants to stay married.

 

 

Plan family outings. Hard for a dad to turn down kids wanting to go to beach, etc. He refuses you go any way with the kids. Kids tell him of the great time they had eventually dad feels left out and eventually goes. Eventually he will go out with just you.

 

 

So how many times have you done family outings? Not asked, but went?