can of worms

[OhNoYouDidNot]

How can you "fix" the relationship if nobody talks?

 

I think you need a come to Jesus meeting... Lay all the cards on the table and decide if you care enough about each other to heal and fix what is broken.

 

Hence why I am taking Lobe's suggestion and shopping for a new MC. Sometimes having a mediator present is not optional but crucial.

 

Your kids will be fine... Regardless ...

 

This much I know. They know about the A and if it comes to pass that the marriage is dissolved, our kids would be disappointed but my husband and I are secure in our ability to keep our family intact. In fact, one of the conditions was that Sunday dinner would continue being a thing, including the OW and her children, once we got used to her being around.

 

In terms of kicking my husband's butt, well - yes, you are correct, I did set a sh*tty 50s precedent for myself when we first got married. However, he needs to realize that the reason I took care of everything in the house at that time was because I ran a business from our house, not because I was an obsessed "perfectionist." I couldn't have clients coming to my house now. No effing way. We don't even have dinner parties anymore and I think my kids are ashamed to have friends over

 

I hope my plan to lead by example works.

 

Thanks for being so supportive, MJA - your kind words are always enlightening and uplifting.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I think Therapy is a great tool....and we tried it at first...but we had a bad one....

 

so I understand...sometimes they can do more harm than good.

 

and I always recommend finding one....but you can certainly get by without one. It may take longer....but it can be done.

 

I have great confidence in you and Lobe...the two of you seem to have this bull by the horns. He might be bigger and have more brawn...but he can be ridden...it just takes the right cowgirl.

[alsudduth]

 

This much I know. They know about the A and if it comes to pass that the marriage is dissolved, our kids would be disappointed but my husband and I are secure in our ability to keep our family intact. In fact, one of the conditions was that Sunday dinner would continue being a thing, including the OW and her children, once we got used to her being around.

 

 

I hope my plan to lead by example works.

 

Thanks for being so supportive, MJA - your kind words are always enlightening and uplifting.

 

This would be my hope as well should my marriage dissolve and I, like you, feel confident in mine and my husbands ability to put our children first and do what is best for them. If that means hanging out and becoming a blended family when the time is right, so be it.

 

Good luck OhNo, I wish you the best.

[OhNoYouDidNot]

It sounds like you have a lot of resentment on the home improvement / chores piece of your relationship.

 

Would setting aside a chore day with chore lists help that?

 

Do you have a new one that nags for me? Cuz while raising a family of 5, we've had the magnetic blackboard one that sits on the fridge, the electronic version with email reminders, a giant wall calendar, several sticker and rewards charts. We've bought books on organizing and decluttering. We have tried FlyLady... I found this cleaning app the other day - I'm going to install it and invite my family to the account and hopefully they will start to get a sense of all the little things that magically happen because Mom/Wifey did them.

 

Resentment towards my husband is not about the home maintenance (not improvement - I have ZERO desire to sink money into this sh*thole beyond making sure it's got 4 walls and a foundation before we sell it) and chores ONLY get done a) when I nag or b) when I do them. I don't actually mind doing the work myself, but I DO mind being told that my active attack on this piece of sh*t pigsty makes my husband feel bad so I should just sit down and wait until he does it. And my resentment gets deeper when he drags his heels about selling this house. And, finally, living in a home where he finger-banged his mistress while our children were sleeping, why would I NOT, HOW could I not feel resentment towards this effing house? lol

 

I'm frustrated. I have told my husband time and again how overwhelmed I am with this house. He has said, "Well, we can sell the house if you really want to..." in that kind of moping "Yes dear, if it will make you shut up dear" sort of way, which makes me feel like there is something wrong with me for hating this house.

 

Think of a pair of super amazing shoes. They're uber comfortable and you should have bought 5 pairs because they fit perfectly, go well with everything, and you just love them to death. But because you've worn them so much, initially you just fixed them with shoe goo and threw some polish on them but at some point you've had them resoled so many times the cobbler can't because the leather upper is giving out. They're scuffed and ugly, there are holes that make your feet wet when you step in puddles, you can't get the smell off them from that one time you voluntarily placed it in OW's vagina accidentally stepped in dog poop, and the only reason they stay on your feet despite being stretched so badly out of shape is because you stubbornly refuse to take them off. Some people assume no one will notice they're held together with bubblegum and duct tape if you're cool about it, others will rebuild the exact same shoe from scratch, while the people with common sense just go get a new house pair of shoes.

 

It's not about the house. It's about stagnating v. comfort and familiarity. It's about the shift in our family - we've both talked with a mixture of fear and dread about empty nesting, which in theory is only a few years away for us. It's about accountability and making a fresh start, one that more accurately reflects where we are today as opposed to 15 years ago.

 

WHY oh WHY does the BS end up feeling like we can't ask for what we need? Is it because we are scared the WS isn't going to love us or is going to run back to the OW if we're too difficult? Is my expectation not to live in a house that is too big, too old, too much work, and too tainted with the memory of what he did with his OW really an unrealistic request? I've heard of couples who move clear across the country to create a feeling of security and stability for their BS. I want to move somewhere in the same neighbourhood, to a smaller, more affordable apartment with sidewalks that get shovelled by someone else. I feel that's not a huge request.

 

I have many difficult "come to Jesus" conversations ahead with my husband, but yes, the resentment over the house is a dealbreaker for me. He can be mad at me for getting it done without his blessing, or he can pitch in. Either way, I refuse to sit around waiting for him to do something about our current situation. If he wants to stay in that house, he is staying there by himself.

[strugglinghubby]

This post got me out of lurkerdom.

 

The "what if" game is valid only if making decisions about the future. Like changing inputs on a spreadsheet and observing what happens to the outputs. That's a valid and worthwhile pursuit.

 

What if on things that have actually happened is a waste of time.

 

So to your questions:

 

 

I've been in R for about 18 years. I'm a mid forties BH married 24 years and the nest (3 kids) is almost empty. I understand all too well what you mean about the exhaustion from the whole mess. I shudder every time I stop to ponder how much time, money, and mental energy I've (we've) poured into her little 5-6mo A. I have been on the brink of divorce every since d day. The fallout from her A was horrific. I stayed for my own reasons and fear definitely was a factor. We have changed individually and as a couple since the A. Our marriage would be great if only. I have never completely gained back trust or respect for her. We do relate better now. We communicate better now. Sex is physically great but lacking somewhat emotionally for me. Are the changes worth the cost? I don't think so after all these years.

 

The what if I ask myself now is: what if this is as good as it gets? I have a hard time being vulnerable with her. Yes, I've watched the Brene TED talk. I guard my thoughts and feelings from her because I know there's only so much she can do. The worst thing that cheating robs from the marriage is peace. The knowledge that things that should just "be" are forever gone or no longer taken for granted. She will no longer get the benefit of the doubt from me. I also know, regardless of the work she's done, that her morals and ethics are fluid and bendable depending upon her desires and whims. I know she has changed, but what if...

 

I do think I would be better off leaving and starting something new. Even if I end up alone, I won't be dealing with the fallout from this mess anymore.

 

Well I was just about to type a reply but this pretty much sums me up to a tee. The only difference is that my child is still fairly young so I've got a while to wait for an empty nest. But I constantly question whether it's worth it, and what will happen once our child leaves the nest.

 

For me the hardest things are what was touched on in the OP, I read text messages between them where she tells him he makes her feel a certain way, a way that she's never told me I've been able to make her feel. Both emotionally and sexually, it may have been the fog of the affair or whatever, but that is some damn heavy baggage to have to deal with as a BS. Having to constantly feel less than adequate really hurts.

[NTV]

Wow, yeah, you went zero to 60 in like .2 seconds there! lol.

 

 

So the chore list won't work. And you've said it's incredibly frustrating that he seems to have no investment in keeping the house cleanly. Add to that with five kids, cleanliness lasts all of 10 mins anyways, but it's nice when it's there.

 

 

On a side note, the nagging thing... from my point of view, being nagged at is an assault. I literally want to react with physical violence when nagged. I know you don't want to do it any more than he wants to hear it. Maybe taking it off the table is a better option, and instead orchestrating a sidetrap?

 

 

For example: he's sitting there watching TV and you say, 'hun, can you take the kid for a bike ride/walk/toss the ball?' (and the kid is right there next to you). He answers 'sure babe!' and keeps watching. Then there's a kid standing infront of the TV ready to go and he's trapped. He didn't really listen to the question, but now has to pay the price for it. In the meantime, he'd stuck doing something productive, and you got two folks busy out of your way so you can get the cleaning done uninterrupted?

 

 

Keep in mind, I'm just suggesting options here, so please don't think that it's some sort of side-taking versus trying to help.

 

 

I think that you also have some... serious... bottled anger left from his affair. I know what that's like. Anything that my ww does that even remotely reminds me of her selfishness triggers my 'why the hell am I doing this?' thought process, lol. Not saying that I am anywhere closer than you are to separating out what should be the appropriate response from the one fueled by betrayal anger. It's not easy. Although, I did find some small humor in playing pranks of WW for a while. Like a passive/aggressive woopie cushion. Maybe an idea for you too? IDK.

[oldshirt]

Away put your weapons, I mean you no harm (spoken in my best Yoda voice)

 

No one including me has defended or justified your H's affair. No one has criticized or pointed any fingers at you or even suggested that you are at fault or are accountable for his A or that any shortcomings of yours excuse or justify his A.

 

You hostility towards me a couple of the other posters is misplaced.

 

I have only responded to the information and descriptions you have provided.

 

So that being said, one if my observations of your your descriptions in these 4 pages is that you have not said a word about your H mistreating you in anyway since dday. Nor have you said a word about him behaving in any suspicious manner at all. And you haven't said a thing that indicates he is not sincere in his desire to reconcile and live happily ever after with you.

 

I think it's even very noteworthy that you have in fact defended him when people have said disparaging things about him.

 

What your complaints and frustrations and angst has all been centered around for 4 pages is the house and your frustrations of dealing with domestic issues.

 

Since he seems to be acting in good faith at reconciliation and wanting to have a life with you, but just seems to have no clue and no ambition in maintaining a house and is a shtty housekeeper but doesn't want to move-

 

- have you considered moving yourself to an efficient little apartment and leve him there if he wants to stay......but remaining married and remaining in a functional, loving relationship and simply living in two different domiciles?

 

Is there any rule that says a married couple must live under one roof?

[oldshirt]

- have you considered moving yourself to an efficient little apartment and leve him there if he wants to stay......but remaining married and remaining in a functional, loving relationship and simply living in two different domiciles?

 

Is there any rule that says a married couple must live under one roof?

 

 

I know this sounds a little unorthodox but let's look at a few things a little more objectively -

 

- your frustration, resentment and complaints over the domestic issues have been far and away your chief complaints throughout this thread.

 

- you want to move (badly) and he doesn't.

 

- you have not said one word about him behaving badly, inappropriately, suspisciously or in a distrustful manner since the start of the reconcilation.

 

- you profess love and affection for him (tainted only by his lack of house keeping and home maintenance initiative and skill) and youacknowledge he has love and affection for you and is generally happy and content in the marriage other than the household issue.

 

- you had a prior divorce plan and plans for amicable and cooperative coparenting previously in place.

 

- if you divorce, you'd have to deal with your own place and child are arrangements anyway.

 

- if in separate homes, you can eliminate (or at least greatly reduce) the bitterness and resentments and squabbles about the house and instead can have date nights, shared dinners (then you go home and he can deal with the dishes LOL) and of course sleepovers :-)

 

- there may be a possibility that this could encourage him to grow up and become more proactive and responsible in maintaining a home down the road.

 

- by getting that anvil off from around your neck you may become happier and less stressed which may in turn make him feel less pressure and less inadequate and insecure.

 

- you can retain the legal, social, personal, romantic/sexual benefits of marriage but get out from under your "albatross" (your word not mine. Don't hate)

 

- in the event you do throw in the towel and divorce however, you have already done all the hard work and heavy lifting and then all that would need to be done is the paperwork to make it official.

 

It think it's worth consideration and discussion.

[OhNoYouDidNot]

- have you considered moving yourself to an efficient little apartment and leve him there if he wants to stay......but remaining married and remaining in a functional, loving relationship and simply living in two different domiciles?

 

Is there any rule that says a married couple must live under one roof?

 

I think my sense of humour might be hard to read in text lol. No weapons here - just sarcasm and a whole lot of frustration. Something's gotta give.

 

We can't afford two homes. I think above and beyond everything, the fact he had his AP in our home and we were planning on moving in a couple of years anyways is what drives me so insane. If he is so attached to the house, he can buy me out and I'll got get my condo, but as long as the equity is tied up in brick and mortar, there's no having it both ways.

 

Your suggestion actually reminds me of an episode of hoarders where the husband and wife do live separately, because she can't stand being there with all the stuff and things. They eat dinner together once or twice a week I think, but don't sleep together or have any kind of intimacy anymore. If I was going to remain intimate with my husband, I assure you he would always be crashing at my place 99% of the time anyways, cuz my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard. Financially, it would make zero sense not to sell.

 

I defend him because I love him. A 10-year standoff about the care and upkeep of this @%&@#$ house is enough. I have always crumbled and said fine, dear, have it your way, dear. As it stands right now, I am leaving the house. By Christmas 2017 - that's about 18 months to get the house repairs done without going broke and hopefully see the oil and gas industry rebound enough that when our property value spikes we are ready to pull the trigger. As you yourself said, oldshirt, when I start working he's either going to jump on board or come to terms with the fact that I am continuing on with the long-term retirement plan we made, with or without him.

 

In some ways you are right - I have to let go of a yoke, but I think it's my yoke of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome.

Edited July 7, 2016 by OhNoYouDidNot

[oldshirt]

Now I suspect that one of your first criticisms of my idea is that this will give him an opportunity to cheat again with you not in the house to monitor him.

 

My answer to that is yes he can, but either you can cheat at any time whether you are under the same roof or not.

 

But either way if he does cheat, then like I said before, now you'd have your answer.

 

But let's look at this from another angle. His A occured during a time of great resentment, bitterness, stress and emotional disconnect and a sexual drought.

 

(I'm not pointing fingers or placing blame, just stating the facts as you've described to us)

 

What has not occured yet is you two having the single biggest stressor and point if contention removed from your daily lives so there's no reason to assume he will cheat if both of you are happier, more relaxed and are not in the midst of an emotional disconnect and sexual drought.

 

In other words, the underlying dynamic is completely different than that under which the A occured previously.

 

Apples to oranges.

[oldshirt]

And the number one reason to consider my idea.........

 

......drum roll please...........

 

The 'stud quo' is blown to hell and a whole new dynamic must be designed from the ground up with all new rules, all new boundaries, all new paradigms etc.

[OhNoYouDidNot]

Wow, yeah, you went zero to 60 in like .2 seconds there! I think that you also have some... serious... bottled anger left from his affair.

 

It ain't bottled LOL. I do actually try and keep my sarcasm in check because I know it grates on him as much as the nagging. It's not done in a humourous way when it's directed at someone to be injurious. Theres's a facebook meme that says something like, "I don't like to think before I speak so I can be as surprised as everyone else at what comes out of my mouth." That is me to a T. I don't yell. I don't hit. I don't slam doors. I get really really clever in an evil sort of pouring lemon juice in your papercuts way. Of course the humour is my mask - it's probably not a healthy or productive way to express myself, but if hubby gets to put the occasional hole in the wall, well... lol

 

I've read "The Dance of Anger" and while I've never fought the urge to be angry because it's unladylike or I don't feel entitled to it or whatever, it's my least favourite emotion because it's the only one where I completely lose my freaking mind. For me, anger comes up on me like a tidal wave. If I can see it coming, I can usually get out of the water. But if I miss that opportunity, if I hesitate, I get pulled into the undertow and come up gasping for air after the damage is already done. Splitting the difference I try and surf that b*tch and let it drive my ambition but that only works a fraction of the time.

 

It takes a LOT to make me mad. I mean, a LOT. I've managed to raise our brood without causing bodily hard to any one of them despite thinking countless times, that little bugger needs a punch in the throat. Of course in familiar situations I can easily tap out before I'm in the danger zone - not go to parties where I know certain people are, not responding to trolls on the internet, putting myself in my room on a time-out when the kids are driving me to the brink, not picking the phone up when Crazy is calling. (Crazy is my passive aggressive mother.) But there there are those situations that blindside me - standing at a party and someone starts making sexist or xenophobic comments, someone being physically violent, finding out your spouse is in love with someone else lol... and I lose my sh*t.

 

Option B, which is humiliating to admit, is punching myself. I can't count how many times in this life I want to go say nasty hurtful things but instead I stand in the shower beating myself up. Literally. This habit developed during the same time period as my ED (early teens) in it's not really as refined or dainty as people cutting intricate patterns on their bodies with razor blades, but the effect (catharsis, release) is the same. Touching the lumps and feeling the pain of bruises on my scalp is oddly soothing. I hadn't done it in decades but began again during my husband's A because I thought I was going insane and f*cking up my marriage (he was gaslighting the ever loving snot out of me). Shortly after d-day I was shocked to bust hubby punching his head, too. I admitted I had been doing the same thing, but preferred the shower since I could cry there and blame my redness on taking too hot of a shower.

 

More importantly, taking the time to lose my sh*t on myself buys me the time I need to think through what I want to say before going off half-cocked and making everyone feel the wrath of my unbridled wordsmithing ire. I rarely feel the urge and can generally curb it these days, but my IC suggested I turn that physical aggression outward. I hate patching holes in the wall and my carpal tunnel prevents me from doing something productive like chopping wood so last year I took up kickboxing. Which by the way I LOVE lol

 

Being the type who prefers to keep my head above water rather than drown in emotion, when I feel anger welling up my best chance of escaping it is to spend some time pondering where the anger is from. If I get stuck in that rage, I say and do things that can't be unsaid or undone. Most days I am successful. Other days, I mock people in the meanest ways, to their face, and feel like a bag of crap for saying it even years afterwards.

 

Like a passive/aggressive woopie cushion. Maybe an idea for you too? IDK.

 

I hope you can pick up that I love to laugh. I think I have a pretty good sense of humour and our entire family tries to outdo each other. Practical jokes, farts, making faces, friendly fire insults, weird nicknames are all par for the course. We're a clever and witty bunch and it's hard watching them leave the nest right now, but I am grateful for technology and the ability to have them at the other end of a text message instantly. I'm not sure if a whoopie cushion would have any effect in our house, but I think maybe this might be the summer of rubber snakes and plastic insects LOL

[OhNoYouDidNot]

And the number one reason to consider my idea.........

 

......drum roll please...........

 

The 'stud quo' is blown to hell and a whole new dynamic must be designed from the ground up with all new rules, all new boundaries, all new paradigms etc.

 

Me and my girlfriends have fantasized about a chick flat for YEARS. Screw the man cave - we want a condo with bunk beds where we can retreat whenever we need to. If you wanna bankroll that... I'll send you my bank info lol

[OhNoYouDidNot]

And what's "stud quo?" Does this mean I get boys on the side? LOL

[OhNoYouDidNot]

And the number one reason to consider my idea.........

 

......drum roll please...........

 

The 'stud quo' is blown to hell and a whole new dynamic must be designed from the ground up with all new rules, all new boundaries, all new paradigms etc.

 

OK, but seriously, this is the argument I have been making from the start... we need a paradigm shift. A clean slate. Level ground where we BOTH get to start afresh.

 

Thought I'm still curious about this "stud quo" thing, which initially I thought was something fun but now realize was probably just a typo on status quo. ~le sigh~

[oldshirt]

 

We can't afford two homes.

 

Yeah I knew you'd say that too.

 

But how much will divorce cost, and then you are gonna have to shell out for your own place any way.

 

Yes there will be the added cost of your new place but how much of your money is going into your current home anyway.

 

Now he can be responsible for his bills and you for yours.

 

Obviously you'd need some legal counsel to assure each your own share of current marital assets (equity, cars, accounts, investments etc)

 

You would retain the marital assets as a married couple, just not in the same home.

 

But now let's be realistic, he won't keep living there forever.

 

This will force change. He will capitulate for once. He won't be able to keep up bills and payments etc and will have to suck it up and fix things up and put it on the market.

 

At the point of sale, your options would be he finds a cheaper more efficient place and you continue your married but separate life.

 

Or by then you are more at piece and you find a smaller, more efficient place together and truly try to reconcile.

 

Or you call it a day, split the assets, officially divorce and each take your half of the booty and go your separate ways.

 

You want the current status quo rocked to it's foundation but yet you still love your husband and want to be with him minus all this domestic BS.

 

Your are searching for an Option C.

 

This is an Option C. If it perfect with all it's rainbows, butterflies and unicorns? No, each of you will have to nutovary up and pay something. But it's a middle ground between losing your hair and killing each other in your sleep vs walking away when both of you want to be together.

[Mrs. John Adams]

OK, but seriously, this is the argument I have been making from the start... we need a paradigm shift. A clean slate. Level ground where we BOTH get to start afresh.

 

Thought I'm still curious about this "stud quo" thing, which initially I thought was something fun but now realize was probably just a typo on status quo. ~le sigh~

 

There is no such thing as a clean slate...you know that right? You cannot undo the past...and the baggage comes with you no matter what you do. It makes you who you are...scars and all.

 

So the sooner you accept that the better off you are.

 

A sense of humor helps...maybe no one else...but certainly YOU

 

and i told you...this is about you not about him.

 

 

You have to change your mindset....you have to take back your power...and if he wants to come along for the ride and accept that you are now the driver...WONDERFUL

 

IF he cannot accept that...open the door and tell him to get out

 

You know John has always said he felt pathetic after my affair...that he was groveling for me.....funny...I view it exactly the opposite. I felt like he was calling the shots...I think the bottom line is...it's all perception.

 

I have no doubt you got this....and i also think he is well aware...or he should be anyway....that you are in the drivers seat....

[oldshirt]

OK, but seriously, this is the argument I have been making from the start... we need a paradigm shift. A clean slate. Level ground where we BOTH get to start afresh.

 

Thought I'm still curious about this "stud quo" thing, which initially I thought was something fun but now realize was probably just a typo on status quo. ~le sigh~

 

Unfortunately yes, it was an autocorrect typo.

 

If I could come up with a stud quo, I'd be all over it.

[oldshirt]

OK, but seriously, this is the argument I have been making from the start... we need a paradigm shift. A clean slate. Level ground where we BOTH get a clean slate:

 

I get that and I think this addresses that to a degree.

 

It's really not all that radical of an idea when you break it down.

 

Lots of couples do legal separations and trial separations when they are at a crossroads.

 

A lot of here pretty strongly encourage the BS to toss out the WS on dday in an effort to make the A cost the WS something as well as to slam home reality and break the affair fog as well as give both parties a chance to determine if they want to continue the M or not.

 

And another big reason is to bust up the status quo and bring people back to the negotiation table to draw up new plans whether it is Marriage 2.0 or divorce.

 

Even if a couple reconciles, they can't go back to Dday minus 1.

 

I don't see this as fundamentally different.

 

What is different here is you two both seem to agree you live each other and want to be together deep down.

 

But the biggest dividing issue is the house and household duties.

 

Since you hate the house and it's the biggest stressor in your life, that's why I suggest you move out.

 

Since other than house issues you both seem to sincerely want to be together, that's why I reccomended staying married as a functional couple.

 

Other than those two factors, all this is is a legal/trial sepation following an affair.

 

Millions of couples do it. Some work things out and live happily ever after. Many don't. All of the ones that come back to the marriage are doing it under a different set of rules and guidelines etc (or at least they should be)

 

This is just kind of a delayed separation with the initial plan to remain married while under two roofs.

[standtall]

Me and my girlfriends have fantasized about a chick flat for YEARS. Screw the man cave - we want a condo with bunk beds where we can retreat whenever we need to. If you wanna bankroll that... I'll send you my bank info lol

 

That is called something else where I come from...

Edited July 8, 2016 by standtall

[OhNoYouDidNot]

There is no such thing as a clean slate...you know that right?

 

I don't mean like we run from our problems and everything is sparkly lol. I mean that I cannot and will not make any effort to overlook the fact that he brought his AP partner into our home. I look forward to buying a new couch. And burning this one. And if anyone tells me I am being petty, I will tell you to suck a lemon, using more colourful words and it won't be a lemon... I laid my cards on the table and said, "I cannot live in this house indefinitely. I need to set an exit date and work towards that, with or without you." I gave my bottom line and...

 

I have no doubt you got this....and i also think he is well aware...or he should be anyway....that you are in the drivers seat....

 

We went out for a bike ride and I asked HIM to play sort of a modified "what if" with me... MJA, I remember reading somewhere in one of your posts that you came to hate your AP; turns out my husband hates the way the house makes me feel and wasn't being pissy when he said, fine, let's sell the house then - the irritation in his voice was towards himself because he knows he f*cked up. He admitted he hates the house, too! And from there we went WAY big playing out all these different scenarios in our minds of what we could feasibly do to flip the table and an hour later we were talking about selling the house, using the equity to buy two condos - a little one for us to retire in but use as a rental property for now, and one that actually fits our family until we can sell it and buy our lake lot - AND if we play our cards right, we will be sending him back to school... What a wild effing night tonight has been.

 

oldshirt, you cheeky monkey! As I previously mentioned, I have WAY more equity in this property. The only way to access it is to sell sell sell. If I am living in a separate house from my husband then I may as well get divorced. I am not ready to get divorced and I already started going ahead with my lead by example motto.

 

True story. We have a busted dryer that has been sitting in our family room for a good 3 weeks now. It started making a weird noise and our neighbour brought one over for us to have (he does renos and takes out the old appliances so he had one kicking around lol) Anyway. I decided f*ck it. I can fix a dryer. I've done it before, I can do it again. Hubby was watching soccer highlights. I sat down and started poking around in there and since DH had replaced the element a year or so ago I asked if there was anything special I should know about taking the drum out, at which point he sighs, turns off his soccer, comes and takes over. Initially I just glared at him, but decided to be proactive. I stopped him and said, with a smile, "I asked you a question - it was not some kind of passive aggressive request for you to do it for me. I've got this." I know he was not happy about it - he stormed off to the garage... and while he was there... HE FIXED THE SQUEAK ON HIS BIKE that he had said earlier just kept getting worse and worse...

 

And for your Doubty McDoubterpantses out there, in case you're wondering if I actually did know what I was doing, turns out it just needs a new drum slide (a nylon band that acts as a lubricating cuff between the felt and the drum) and I already ordered the part - just gotta pick it up on the way home from work tomorrow.

 

I think we are a ways off from implementing dressers over laundry baskets, but if tonight was any indication of things to come, I can almost say I feel *hopeful* for the first time since d-day. What a wild effing night. Seriously. I am reeling!!!

 

I may have to tip my IC next week but I think I'll wait and see what Part 2 is going to be first... O.o

 

That is called something else where I come from...

 

oh? and what might that be? Or dare even ask...

Edited July 8, 2016 by OhNoYouDidNot

[Mrs. John Adams]

I am proud of you for taking charge...but one thing i want to caution you on.

Reconciliation....if there is to be one....takes both people doing their share. You cannot "reconcile" on your own.

 

You can fix dryers and clean house....and paint....but you alone cannot "fix" this marriage...or even more complicated...FIX your husband.

 

At this point...he needs to step up to the plate and do his share...emotionally and physically...and if he is not willing to do that...then he needs a dose of reality.

 

I dare say...he loves his Television more than he loves anyone or anything...and I would be very tempted to have that TV disappear the NEXT time he piles his lazy arse on the sofa...instead of pitching in to help with the repairs. So perhaps...you should go ahead and have a bon fire in the backyard with that sofa...even BEFORE you get a new one...it might send a very clear message...

 

Selling your house sounds like a splendid idea...but in order to sell it for top dollar...it will require lover boy to DO SOMETHING.

 

I think you not only need a come to Jesus meeting with him...but you may need one with the entire family. Keeping house is one thing...being everyone else's servant is another. This may require EVERYONE pitching in to do their part. Kids certainly can help.

[OhNoYouDidNot]

At this point...he needs to step up to the plate and do his share...emotionally and physically...and if he is not willing to do that...then he needs a dose of reality.

 

I dare say...he loves his Television more than he loves anyone or anything....

 

He told me he is going back to counselling, and as I previously stated, I am fixing me and this house. By the time we sell, I think my husband will have a pretty good idea about where he is at. My bottom line is, I'm leaving this house and he can come or not. As of right now he seems to be on board but if all that changes, I am still100% prepared to proceed solo. Failing all else, I need to feel confident and secure again. I've been so afraid to voice my unhappiness for the last two years in case he leaves or rejects me or goes back to OW. Taking ownership of the state of my investment feels GOOD - it's almost like daring him not to love my warts lol. This process? Empowering. What hubby does is irrelevant. I'm not here to fix him - this is to fix the house and myself.

 

We have had many come to Jesus family meetings about the house, by the way, and had one last night. Frankly, I'm not that bitter about nagging the kids - I expect to have my teens roll their eyes at me when I ask them do do something, but they do it with enough prodding and encouragement. Again, I have not led my children by example for many years so maybe this is a turning point for what they take away from this house. They will absolutely be a part of this process - they will not be able to bring all the "stuff" we have amassed and are expected to purge as well, and while I can't predict the future I think it's a safe bet that it will be a bigger challenge getting hubby to part with his "stuff" than the kids.

 

Onward onward.

 

One quick point about TV - we own one tv, that sits in the family room (with the dryer lol) and it is normally commandeered by the tween; both my husband and I consume our media on our computers as we don't have cable; I think the impression of him watching boatloads of TV is perhaps a misinterpretation of me stating a pet peeve which is that he is easily sidetracked by virtually anything more pleasant than housework. It could be by any number of things - a book, woodworking, tinkering in the garage... but right now it just happens to be soccer finals and he's on it like a fly on poo... France moved on last night and I actually didn't have any desire to prevent him from checking out the highlights.

 

One of the big takeaways from the meeting last night was that we had surrounded ourselves in a chalk circle. Thinking that the purpose in life is to pay off a mortgage is so limiting - investing in property is a means of protecting and growing your investment until you find your "final" home - the one you're pretty sure you'll live in when you retire, before you need a nursing home. Making that shift in our thinking is I think a vital piece because owning a house shouldn't feel like a life sentence. If you make a bad investment then you should get out and put your money where it works for you.

 

It's easy to flounder when you don't know where you are headed. Tonight we are going to sit down and make the big "to do" list and I'm going to use an app I found to track our progress. I can't explain how excited I am to have direction and clarity. I haven't been this excited since planning our big backpacking trip many years ago!!!

[Mrs. John Adams]

It sounds like a wonderful plan!

 

You got this!

[Mr Blunt]

Originally Posted by OhNoYouDidNot

Tonight we are going to sit down and make the big "to do" list and I'm going to use an app I found to track our progress.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not want to lower your excitement over your “to do” list but I hope you are prepared to deal with his potential less than stellar performance with the list. He has proven for more than 20 years that “he is easily sidetracked by virtually anything more pleasant than housework.” It is very hard to change a habit of over 20 years, but maybe he will surprise every one and charge the “to do “list with vigor. I just want you to be prepared for either way.

 

Juts a comment on your difference in living style and your home. I had somewhat the same problem that you had but not nearly as severe. My wife has many good points and is very sentimental. However, her comfort level regarding the home is vastly different than mine. She will go to patio sales and bring home stuff just because it is a “good deal”. She has been doing this for YEARS and YEARS. Needless to say we have around 25 coffee cups, 30 dishes, truckloads of pots and pans, etc. When I open the kitchen cupboards the pans come flying out at me. I am very organized and our differences have caused many harsh feelings over the years.

 

I would find hobbies and sports that I could do so that could balance some of my frustrations but that made her mad that I would not be home as much as she wanted me to. Anyway, I decided that my wife is too good of a woman for me to make a huge issue over the situation that was not going to change much. Here is what I did. Like you I made a plan that gave me hope and helped me to live with the STUFF that was all over the house. My plan was that I was going to pay off the 1st mortgage and then build on. I paid off the mortgage and then I added a lot to our home. I enlarged our master bedroom to a 17x19, she picked out all the new furniture and bed, I built a reading gazebo ( wife loves to read) right outside the MBR french door, put in wood floors throughout the home, built her private bathroom ( no men allowed), and a small office for her. Now that I made sure to consider her in the purchases, I did my plan. I built myself a larger office, my private bathroom, my own kitchen and a guest bedroom. I made it clear that she can do whatever she wants with all the rooms except the ones that I built for me. She has a three bedroom, two baths, LR, DR, Laundry room, and pantry that she can put all her stuff in. Now I do not need to go into any of those rooms if I do not want as I have my own rooms just the way that I want. PROBLEM SOLVED!

 

This plan was a multiyear plan that took a long time. I lived off my dreams of building for many years to combat my frustration over her ways and my ways regarding our different living style. Now I am happy as a clam. She can live how she wants and I can live how I want. What is interesting is that now that I stopped complaining about her stuff and lifestyle she has improved on her own. I can now be around her stuff and lifestyle because I have my retreat rooms (man caves).

 

 

We now get along better as we watch TV together and have diner together a lot. We also go out to eat a lot, go to church together, and visit our children and grandchildren a lot.

 

My plan also included me improving my attitude and other areas of my life that helped me to become more self-sufficient in emotions and other areas. I have a very good life most of the time and my long range plan and execution of that plan is part of the reason that I am contented. I no longer am afraid to voice my unhappiness because but here is no need to voice my unhappiness. I am no longer afraid that she will leave me for the OM because she has proven by her actions for many years that she is not interested in that anymore. I am more self-sufficient and cannot be devastated like I was the first time she betrayed and rejected me. I would still be hurt and want to have her as my wife but I am secure in that I could have a good life without her because with my improvements in myself I like me more now than I ever did.

 

Hope some of this may help you.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Mr Blunt