can of worms

[AlwaysGrowing]

I'm intrigued by the often expressed theory that an A and subsequent R are going to fix the problems in a marriage. Somehow, a bad marriage will become good, a good marriage great.

 

Since D-Day and the aftermath are usually about personal issues and collateral damage well-documented in this forum, I'm not sure how this is supposed to work. It seems a successful R means better dealing with the problems as opposed to having the issues go away. People get better but I'm not sure how often the relationships do.

 

OhNoYouDidNot, several years age you lacked the connection and communication in your marriage necessary for a rewarding sexual relationship. The same dynamic exists today. That the timeline between those dates included his affair doesn't seem especially relevant since you've come to terms with his infidelity. In short, I'd make any decisions based on today and looking forward rather than the weight of past events.

 

Interesting topic, keep posting and let us know how you're doing...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

How often have we read here that the only marriage/relationship issues were the ones that the WS had? That the WS had an affair because of those issues?

 

It is with those WS that R has a low success rate...that is not to say that the marriage still doesn't exist. It is that they fail to recognize the quiet killer called resentment.

 

The WS that only wants to work on the real/perceived shortcomings of their BS are the ones that really highlight their own partner value. It is the partner who has been betrayed and then told to work on themselves/WS grievances and receives the glorious gift of...."I'm here ain't I" from the WS that slows and quietly exits the marriage emotionally.

[Fleek]

Leaving and running away...does not mean you no longer have to deal with the fallout from the mess. Even those who divorce still have to deal with the aftermath of infidelity...they still have to heal.

And if you enter into a new relationship...you will still have the doubts brought about by the affair.

 

I certainly will drag some baggage from this mess into another relationship. Hopefully I've learned to handle these issues and manage them so they don't taint a new situation.

 

I am tired of living in a perpetual state of doubt, second-guessing whether my husband really wants to be home or if he is here out of obligation and guilt and getting nothing but shrugs and hugs from him when I ask.

I am tired of comparing myself to the ghost of his xOW, who I know next to nothing about other than that she made my husband feel "wanted" and "desired."

I am tired of feeling like I have to be superhuman to prevent him from straying, even though I know that there is nothing I can do to stop him from straying if he's hellbent on finding a way.

I am tired of blaming myself every day for my part in messing up my marriage in the first place. (I have residual Catholic guilt issues - don't judge)

I am tired of feeling like I am the only person trying to fix myself and fix my marriage - like if I can make myself better about it all, forgive and forget, the problems will just dissipate.

I am tired of wondering if both WH and I wouldn't be happier if we weren't tied to the A anymore.

 

I am just plain f*cking tired. I love and respect my husband, I cherish the family and life we had built together, I appreciate his efforts to make me feel like he isn't going to cheat but I no longer trust our future. I honestly think we would be better off ending amicably now than investing another 15 years only to discover than when it's time to retire, he really doesn't share the same vision.

 

These issues that OhNo listed will not be present in a new relationship. The new person will not have discarded me and our family for a fling. I won't feel unappreciated. I won't wonder if I'm plan B. I should feel valued and cherished by my partner. Yes, divorce will impact our kids and future grandkids. Certain family traditions will die. Future weddings and other significant events will be awkward. I hate that aspect of divorce. It will suck financially too. Those things tend to keep me stuck in this mess. I have to remind myself that I'm not the one that set this chain of events into motion. I did not stray. I simply cannot reach some sort of comfort level in this post A marriage. I'm weary, over stressed and just plain tired of dealing with my cheating wife's choices.

[Mr. Lucky]

It is the partner who has been betrayed and then told to work on themselves/WS grievances and receives the glorious gift of...."I'm here ain't I" from the WS that slows and quietly exits the marriage emotionally.

 

Wow, you've met my ex-wife?

 

Once we agreed we'd try to work things out post D-Day for the sake of our young son, she determined her contribution to the R was complete. And any questioning of her commitment was met with that exact "I'm here ain't I" response.

 

We made it 13 more months, only because I'm supremely stubborn...

 

Mr. Lucky

[OhNoYouDidNot]

It sounds like your gut and intuition may have finally poked their heads out from behind the Catholic guilt mindset. I hope exploring alternative possibilities is helpful.

 

I don't think so. I'm a recovering Catholic - I left the church and it's twisted rules behind years ago. Guilt is a useless emotion, and recognizing it as such I don't use it as a measuring stick for any major decisions, least of all whether I ought to divorce my husband. My gut, on the other hand, is not saying anything right now - it's every bit as confused as my head and heart LOL

 

I do think I would be better off leaving and starting something new. Even if I end up alone, I won't be dealing with the fallout from this mess anymore.

 

Oh, Fleek - this is my worst nightmare right now, though I agree with MJA that the fallout will always be there, whether I am with him or someone else or all by my lonesome.

 

So do you feel that your husband has given you everything you need to heal? Has he been transparent? Has he given you all passwords to everything? Has he shown you true remorse? Does he make sure you feel safe?

 

Have you taken back your power and made demands of him? or are you coasting along hoping that he will eventually "see the light" and give you the things you need?

 

Have you both read the book how to help your spouse heal from your affair by Linda MacDonald? Have you discussed the ideas in the book if you have?

 

This is the frustrating part. He is truly remorseful about the affair, of that I have no doubt. He listens to me when I need to dump, responds truthfully to all my questions, treats me with kindness, checks in on me to make sure I'm doing OK when I seem like I have an "off" day. I have passwords to everything (and yes, I've used them - still do) and he has risen to the challenge of every affair-related "demand" I have made. The first year we were in "recovery" mode - we worked so hard to repair the pain from the affair - but when the first full year passed and we were supposed to start "rebuilding" and we went to the MC, well - let's just suffice it to say I could punch the MC in the throat for giving us a gold star because I think it stopped us dead in our tracks.

 

We've both read Linda MacDonald, NOT Just Friends, After the Affair, and I've read just about every other book and blog that exists... and we've discussed them ad nauseum. We are not in affair repair mode anymore - the triggers from that come and go fairly easily. I'll tell my husband when I am triggered, he stops or modifies his actions, we talk through it, we carry on. THAT sh*t we've pretty much got down pat.

 

Why did WH stop IC?

 

Because he felt like he wasn't getting any value, and I agree - she was a bit wishy washy, especially when I'd come back from mine with homework, journal assignments, and exercises for us to do as a couple. He'd com home after paying someone to listen to him talk for an hour and send him on his way, sometimes with a book, but usually with nothing more than a pat on the bum. I thought he should be looking for a different counsellor but instead he just stopped going. And THIS is at the crux of why I pulled away from him in the first place. I'll tell you all about it when I respond to oldshirt...

 

This is your second time considering divorce - how did you know it was over the first time?

 

I was done when they hauled him off in cuffs after discovering my unemployed bum of a spouse had been giving my leftover T3s from surgery to our sons at naptime so that he could go to the neighbour's house and smoke weed... You're pretty done then.

 

I don't know. This begs the question, if my choices are (a) stay married and feeling like I'm constantly banging my head into a wall or (b) get divorced, meet someone else and deal with different set of insecurities... then why not © say f* it and go have my own affair?

 

I concur with those who have said, no no no lol I still have to look at myself in the mirror...

 

However, in the OP:s case I think she has already resolved in her mind that she is going to divorce her husband since her husband's seeming change of heart is a charade she has seen through. I guess one can only wish both these good folk all the very best and God speed!

 

I have far from resolved that I am going to divorce, and I don't think my husband has put on a "charade" for me. I honestly think, from the what if exercises, that he might just be happy with the way things are. For him, the only indication that something was "wrong" in our marriage was that I cut him off sex. I stopped giving him "clues" about how unhappy I was and started coping with it in my own way, which went from taking everything on by myself to basically just kind of "dropping out" of our marriage. If nobody else cared about the house falling apart, the dishes getting done, the lawn being mowed, having date night, why the hell should I?

 

Have you given yourself permission to be angry? I'm not talking about the reactionary ( for lack of a better word) anger that you might have had right after the A , but the more thought out and "logical" anger that can develop after time has passed? These feelings can really fester and poison you if you don't deal with them.

 

No anger left about the A. My anger is now about our apparent inability to change/fix the things that were wrong in the marriage before. I think maybe the problem here is that my husband doesn't think it's a problem.

 

Other than having sex with another woman (keeping in mind men have A's for many different reasons than women) why do you say he didn't like your long-term plans?

 

Because he said, "We don't want the same things anymore..." This was said a few days after d-day, in the context of why he felt like the OW was his new future. I'm not sure how else I ought to take that lol

 

What if: What if you just dumped all of that baggage off of your shoulders and just released yourself from all that pressure and just lived in the moment??? What if you didn't try to be 'perfect' and just tried to be marginally adequate? I'm just saying, what if you just let this go and let the cards fall however they may?? Can you simply be yourself and do what you want to do and live your life how you want to live and give yourself the freedom to let him do the same?

 

Because when I did that he had an affair...

 

the Coles version of what follows is: I got mad, cut him off sex, and he found someone who wasn't mad at him who would have sex with him. For those who wish to continue...

 

I was a perfectionist. In the early days of our marriage, I took care of our family. We had little kids in diapers at home, I worked from home, I took care of all the housework, all the cooking and cleaning, all the bills, I mowed the lawn, shovelled the walks, made sure oil changes got scheduled, managed our finances, planned our dates and vacations. When the littlest one was out of diapers, I went back to work. And then the fight was on. If anything needed to get done, I could either do it myself, or ask someone to help. Over time, I felt like I was this horrible nag, constantly riding everyone's ass, and if it didn't get done (which it rarely did) then I had to do it myself. I can't count the number of times I was still standing at the sink at 11:30 at night doing dishes. Then I'd crawl into bed and my husband would not cuddle or talk, he would want sex. And if I said I was too tired or not in the mood, he would pout. It's not that I didn't enjoy or want sex, I just didn't have it in me to not feel angry.

 

Eventually, I decided I'd just start doing everything myself again, and when I stopped nagging but things got done anyway, hubby would get upset because he felt bad, and tell me to stop doing it so he could finish it. Whether he did or did not finish whatever he said he would - meh. That's a toss-up. In the end, I gave up nagging OR doing it all myself, cut him off sex, the house fell to sh*t... I mean, literally, I am embarrassed to have people come over because it's so f*cking bad. We have more thistle than lawn. We have half-built planters in the backyard. We have a truck that we pay insurance on that sits on the parking pad for months on end because hubby refuses to sell it, doesn't know how to fix it, and won't let me take it to a mechanic. There's a pile of dirt we were going to use to regrade the front lawn that he swore he was going to move by hand, that is still sitting exactly where it was set down, 4 years ago. Add to that the fact he has NO clue about bad our finances looked, so I started working more and more and more. And I checked out.

 

Obviously feeling bad about himself, he found someone who saw him as sparkly and wonderful, who didn't remind him of how badly his home and marriage were falling apart, who conveniently let him put his weenie in her. While there had always been that distance between us, we still hugged and kissed, held hands, slept in the same bed with one blanket, but we never fought or snarled at each other. Once the affair started, he became a complete *sshole. Gaslighting was an understatement and I thought I was going crazy. He snapped at me, slammed doors in my face, rolled his eyes at me, began sleeping across the bed under a separate blanket... I was paranoid, I started having anxiety attacks, I thought I was seriously going crazy. I told him I missed "us" but he was so far gone by then he just said, "Well, fix it then." When I tried to initiate sex, he rejected me. Ha. Ha ha. What a bassturd.

 

I felt extraordinarily stupid for not catching on sooner, but there you have the "nuts and bolts" of what happened. Obviously there are multiple layers more, but I think this kind of sums up the timeline of how things went down.

 

There are FWS who adamantly claim that lack of sex was the reason why their affair happened, who then claim to take ownership of the affair and have clearly stated that if their BS was not willing to look at all their own flaws/faults then they would have divorced their BS.

 

Ah, but here's where my husband earns a few brownie points. He is great at omitting things, but he is a HORRIBLE liar. And I mean HORRIBLE. Had I asked him straight up when I first suspected an affair if he was having an affair, it would have stopped literally days after it turned physical. On d-day, he held fast to the belief that it was all my fault, that I had driven him into the arms of another woman. Once the affair fog lifted and he grieved the loss of who he had come to see as his "best friend" and he realized that I was not the enemy, he started looking at himself. He read the Linda MacDonald book shortly after and that was a game-changer. So when he says he takes ownership of the affair and does not blame me for his actions, I believe him, 100%. I've asked him 16 ways from Sunday and he has never wavered from taking full responsibility for his selfishness. He knows as well as I do that his character flaws have nothing whatsoever to do with me, but he also seems to be stuck in dealing with those issues (he recognizes that his biggest problems are his inability to finish what he starts, lack of motivation, self-loathing for being a poor self-starter, etc.) that he has clearly had for a very long time.

 

resentment

 

DING DING DING we have a winner!

 

To him, the premarital issue that caused the affair for him was the lack of sex and admiration. Because those things are fixed, he feels like the marriage is OK. I don't know that he has made the connection between his low self-esteem and the reason I withdrew sex and admiration in the first place.

 

Damn. I think the "what if" journal exercise just took on its real purpose.

 

Jumping from what if to what now, my conclusion is that no, I am not *done* with my marriage or my husband but I am *done* with status quo. I am so *done* with the status quo that if my husband does not start putting the same energy and effort into working on his personal issues as I am (I have an eating disorder, I'm a perfectionist who lives in a house that looks like an episode of hoarders who can't find balance between one extreme and the other, I'm dealing with the fallout from the betrayal of an affair... I know I have issues LOL)

 

I think my husband really *is* happy with the marriage and happy with me, and that he is not happy with himself and that is why he stays stuck and why I feel so frustrated. If I have to work on me, he has to work on him. Perhaps THAT is the thing I have not adequately demanded. May the odds be ever in his favour should he decide to have a midlife crisis right now. FML

[OhNoYouDidNot]

I won't wonder if I'm plan B. I simply cannot reach some sort of comfort level in this post A marriage. I'm weary, over stressed and just plain tired of dealing with my cheating wife's choices.

 

I feel this one to the core. What if d-day hadn't happened and I had never forced him to make a choice? Would they still be going? Is the only reason the affair ended was because it was inconvenient to leave? Is he staying to save face? I've asked these questions a million times and WH's answers have satisfactorily passed the sniff test. I've been told that the only way this dissipates is with time. MY IC asked me why I was holding onto that pain and what purpose I was serving. I said, well obviously I want to protect myself and she said, well, you build up that wall and never make yourself vulnerable to him again and you'll never stop feeling like Plan B.

 

Fleek, are you/have you talked to anyone about your wife's A? Have you read any of the books suggested on this site? Has your WW read the Linda MacDonald book? It was seriously amazeballs to see the total change in the way my WH handled things after reading it.

[NTV]

Holy crap! It sounds like what would really really help you is to sit down with your hubby and come up with a list of priorities.

 

 

Like:

1. Kids

2. Sex

3. Work

4. Cleaning

5. More sex

6. Hobbies

7. home projects

8. Vacation

9. even more sex

10. tv

 

 

 

 

etc. etc. Something you both can agree on. (list above is provided as an example, not meant to be suggestions

[OhNoYouDidNot]

Holy crap! It sounds like what would really really help you is to sit down with your hubby and come up with a list of priorities.

 

Like:

1. Sleep

2. Sleep

3. Vacation

4. Sex

5. More sex

6. Hobbies (is drinking wine a hobby)

7. Sleep

8. Vacation

9. Kids

10. Everything else

 

etc. etc. Something you both can agree on. (list above is provided as an example, not meant to be suggestions

 

 

Like:

1. Sleep

2. Sleep

3. Vacation

4. Sex

5. More sex

6. Hobbies (is drinking wine a hobby?)

7. Sleep

8. Vacation

9. Kids

10. Everything else

[ladydesigner]

Most BS get to a place where...if they are expected to eat the s$&@ sandwich called my spouses affair....and all the sides that come with it. They expect their WS to at least sit at the table with them and order one hell of a bottle of wine.

 

This made me lol maybe 2 bottles!

[ladydesigner]

The new person will not have discarded me and our family for a fling. I won't feel unappreciated. I won't wonder if I'm plan B. I should feel valued and cherished by my partner. Yes, divorce will impact our kids and future grandkids. Certain family traditions will die. Future weddings and other significant events will be awkward. I hate that aspect of divorce. It will suck financially too. Those things tend to keep me stuck in this mess. I have to remind myself that I'm not the one that set this chain of events into motion. I did not stray. I simply cannot reach some sort of comfort level in this post A marriage. I'm weary, over stressed and just plain tired of dealing with my cheating wife's choices.

 

Fleek I cannot tell you how much I identify with your posts. My M will never be the same and I know the only way to feel like I wasn't discarded is to be with someone who hasn't discarded me which means D.

 

It is so awful the options a BS gets after Dday. They are like forced options and I want neither

[Mr Blunt]

Quote of OhNoYouDidNot:

 

I am tired of feeling like I am the only person trying to fix myself and fix my marriage

 

My anger is now about our apparent inability to change/fix the things that were wrong in the marriage before. I think maybe the problem here is that my husband doesn't think it's a problem.

 

I am so *done* with the status quo that if my husband does not start putting the same energy and effort into working on his personal issues as I am (I have an eating disorder, I'm a perfectionist who lives in a house that looks like an episode of hoarders who can't find balance between one extreme and the other, I'm dealing with the fallout from the betrayal of an affair... I know I have issues LOL)

 

I think my husband really *is* happy with the marriage and happy with me, and that he is not happy with himself and that is why he stays stuck and why I feel so frustrated. If I have to work on me, he has to work on him. Perhaps THAT is the thing I have not adequately demanded. May the odds be ever in his favor should he decide to have a midlife crisis right now. FML

 

 

You are very frustrated (angry/resentful?) that your husband is not putting the same energy and efforts into working on his personal issues as you are. Is your list below the personal issues that you would like for him to change?

 

 

Quote of OhNoYouDidNot:

He knows as well as I do that his character flaws have nothing whatsoever to do with me, but he also seems to be stuck in dealing with those issues (he recognizes that his biggest problems are his inability to finish what he starts, lack of motivation, self-loathing for being a poor self-starter, etc.) that he has clearly had for a very long time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your husband seems to have some good points as you have stated below:

 

 

Quote of OhNoYouDidNot:

He is truly remorseful about the affair, of that I have no doubt. He listens to me when I need to dump, responds truthfully to all my questions, treats me with kindness, checks in on me to make sure I'm doing OK when I seem like I have an "off" day. I have passwords to everything (and yes, I've used them - still do) and he has risen to the challenge of every affair-related "demand" I have made.

 

I hope that your husband improves on the personal issues you have listed but have you put his good points and his problems on the scale to see which one outweighs the other? I am a BS and I have had to accept some of my wife’s personal problems but her good points far outweigh her problems. In my marriage I have to accept that my wife is not good in every area just like she has to accept my failures. The question for me is, what outweighs the other; do her good points outweigh her bad? Most definably YES. Besides I cannot change her I can only change myself.

[Moxie Lady]

Well this certainly worked out well for him, no?

 

He had the affair and now he is getting sex from you, other than that nothing has changed for him. Hardly seems fair. I can see why you are sick and tired.

 

For those who tried but eventually left, how did you know you were just finally done trying?

 

I tried reconciliation but ended up divorcing him. For me it was because he wasnt really working at it. I had the feeling that what he wanted was his life and status and for my half of the financial assets to remain in our bank accounts. He didnt really 'get' it. He wanted to blame me for things.

 

And honestly even if he were a model reformed husband I dont think I would have made it. To me someone who can have an affair that lasts for weeks and months is truely different than someone who has a one or two time experience and then corrects it (the latter example being Mr and Mrs A). The mindset of a person who can have a long affair is not someone who I want to be with or who I would ever want to trust again. I feel that if I were ever to trust him again Im just a doormat, asking for it. No thanks.

 

I see so few people on this forum for whom reconciliation worked so that everyone is happy. Again Mr and Mrs A come to mind, but no one else does. Honestly other than those two, if a couple were happily reconciled why are they here immersed in affair land. I wouldnt be, I would be putting it behind me and living my life. Says alot in my opinion, but thats just me.

 

OP I do think that an affair takes away the innocence of the relationship. He and I used to be such great friends. We were a team, I coudl trust him with anything. In the earlier days of our marriage we were not just a couple but we completed each other. I enjoyed everything with him (other than the lack of sex). But that was permanently wiped out after his affair. You dont get that back, not really.

 

So that is why I left and why I want to start over with someone new. I have doubted my decision at times but I know it was the right one and thinking about the future possibilities for my life are keeping me going. At this point I can do anything and meet anyone, I feel free.

[OhNoYouDidNot]

Is your list below the personal issues that you would like for him to change?

 

No, they are issues HE has complained about himself, amoung other things, that I agree are irritating.

 

I hope that your husband improves on the personal issues you have listed but have you put his good points and his problems on the scale to see which one outweighs the other?

 

Seriously? I'm supposed to overlook the fact that I have to parent him like I do my kids? I don't think so. Not really apples to apples here. That's like saying someone who donates enough money to charity, goes to church, and is a good provider should have their wife beating tendencies overlooked. We're not talking about someone who leaves the cap off the toothpaste - we're talking about someone who is pushing 40 and can't move a pile of f*cking dirt. For 4 years. Who gets mad at me if I point out the pile of dirt is still there, and physically stood in front of me to block me from doing it because he said he was going do. Then didn't. You wanna know the real problem here is that he breaks promises and commitments to me every g*ddamned day of my life. If I don't hold him accountable by "accepting" these flaws, then basically I'm signing up for a double decker sh*t sandwich with fries on the side and THREE bottles of wine that I gotta drink solo.

 

Well this certainly worked out well for him, no? He had the affair and now he is getting sex from you, other than that nothing has changed for him. Hardly seems fair. I can see why you are sick and tired.

 

This makes him sound like a bad guy, and he's really not, but yup - this sums it up.

[Mr Blunt]

Originally Posted by Mr Blunt

I hope that your husband improves on the personal issues you have listed but have you put his good points and his problems on the scale to see which one outweighs the other?

 

 

Quote of OhNoYouDidNot:

Seriously? I'm supposed to overlook the fact that I have to parent him like I do my kids? I don't think so. Not really apples to apples here. That's like saying someone who donates enough money to charity, goes to church, and is a good provider should have their wife beating tendencies overlooked. We're not talking about someone who leaves the cap off the toothpaste - we're talking about someone who is pushing 40 and can't move a pile of f*cking dirt. For 4 years. Who gets mad at me if I point out the pile of dirt is still there, and physically stood in front of me to block me from doing it because he said he was going do. Then didn't. You wanna know the real problem here is that he breaks promises and commitments to me every g*ddamned day of my life. If I don't hold him accountable by "accepting" these flaws, then basically I'm signing up for a double decker sh*t sandwich with fries on the side and THREE bottles of wine that I gotta drink solo.

 

 

Reply by Blunt

By your posts it seems that your husband is not going to measure up to your expectations any time soon. That being the case, I was trying to get you to look at his good points. Perhaps that would help you with your anger and resentments. In addition, I did not tell you to overlook them but was offering to help you deal with them by also focusing on his good points. If you do that maybe you will be less angry and less resentful and can more effectively get him to improve.

 

Him breaking promises and commitments is a serious fault and your options seem to boil down to:

 

 

1 Divorce him

 

 

2 Continue the way things are now going

 

 

3 Focus on his good points so that you will not be so angry and resentful.That may help YOU and may even help him improve

 

Do you have any other options that I have not thought of?

 

 

I am also a BS but the positive points of a WS that you have listed below are very positive.

 

 

Quote of OhNoYouDidNot:

He is truly remorseful about the affair, of that I have no doubt. He listens to me when I need to dump, responds truthfully to all my questions, treats me with kindness, checks in on me to make sure I'm doing OK when I seem like I have an "off" day. I have passwords to everything (and yes, I've used them - still do) and he has risen to the challenge of every affair-related "demand" I have made.

 

 

 

Reply by Blunt

If you are not going to divorce him then maybe you can try something different. I am not the one that invented the attitude of; if you are given lemons then make lemonade, or focus on the positive to help you improve the negative. I use that with my own WS. If I do not appreciate her good points and allow her bad points to get me all angry and resentful, then I would divorce her. My WS has more good points than bad points so I do myself a favor and focus more on her good points. That is why I suggested that you weigh the good points and the bad points of your husband so that you do not get so angry and resentful.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Well this certainly worked out well for him, no?

 

He had the affair and now he is getting sex from you, other than that nothing has changed for him. Hardly seems fair. I can see why you are sick and tired.

 

 

 

I tried reconciliation but ended up divorcing him. For me it was because he wasnt really working at it. I had the feeling that what he wanted was his life and status and for my half of the financial assets to remain in our bank accounts. He didnt really 'get' it. He wanted to blame me for things.

 

And honestly even if he were a model reformed husband I dont think I would have made it. To me someone who can have an affair that lasts for weeks and months is truely different than someone who has a one or two time experience and then corrects it (the latter example being Mr and Mrs A). The mindset of a person who can have a long affair is not someone who I want to be with or who I would ever want to trust again. I feel that if I were ever to trust him again Im just a doormat, asking for it. No thanks.

 

I see so few people on this forum for whom reconciliation worked so that everyone is happy. Again Mr and Mrs A come to mind, but no one else does. Honestly other than those two, if a couple were happily reconciled why are they here immersed in affair land. I wouldnt be, I would be putting it behind me and living my life. Says alot in my opinion, but thats just me.

 

OP I do think that an affair takes away the innocence of the relationship. He and I used to be such great friends. We were a team, I coudl trust him with anything. In the earlier days of our marriage we were not just a couple but we completed each other. I enjoyed everything with him (other than the lack of sex). But that was permanently wiped out after his affair. You dont get that back, not really.

 

So that is why I left and why I want to start over with someone new. I have doubted my decision at times but I know it was the right one and thinking about the future possibilities for my life are keeping me going. At this point I can do anything and meet anyone, I feel free.

 

There are several couples here that are in successful Reconciliation. Understand50...Mr blunt...are two that come to mind...oh and of course Liam...

 

and I think we are here to give hope that it is possible...not because we need help...although i will say....you always learn...you always continue to grow. I learn something here everyday...(I will admit some of it is not necessarily helpful) I learned today that some feel this way about meClearly you take issue with posters expressing, discussing, debating, arguing their opinions.... if this is how i am perceived...I clearly am not meeting my goal of projecting hope.I will work on it.

[oldshirt]

 

Because he said, "We don't want the same things anymore..." This was said a few days after d-day, in the context of why he felt like the OW was his new future. I'm not sure how else I ought to take that lol

 

 

 

Because when I did that he had an affair...

 

the Coles version of what follows is: I got mad, cut him off sex, and he found someone who wasn't mad at him who would have sex with him. For those who wish to continue...

 

I was a perfectionist. In the early days of our marriage, I took care of our family. We had little kids in diapers at home, I worked from home, I took care of all the housework, all the cooking and cleaning, all the bills, I mowed the lawn, shovelled the walks, made sure oil changes got scheduled, managed our finances, planned our dates and vacations. When the littlest one was out of diapers, I went back to work. And then the fight was on. If anything needed to get done, I could either do it myself, or ask someone to help. Over time, I felt like I was this horrible nag, constantly riding everyone's ass, and if it didn't get done (which it rarely did) then I had to do it myself. I can't count the number of times I was still standing at the sink at 11:30 at night doing dishes. Then I'd crawl into bed and my husband would not cuddle or talk, he would want sex. And if I said I was too tired or not in the mood, he would pout. It's not that I didn't enjoy or want sex, I just didn't have it in me to not feel angry.

 

Eventually, I decided I'd just start doing everything myself again, and when I stopped nagging but things got done anyway, hubby would get upset because he felt bad, and tell me to stop doing it so he could finish it. Whether he did or did not finish whatever he said he would - meh. That's a toss-up. In the end, I gave up nagging OR doing it all myself, cut him off sex, the house fell to sh*t... I mean, literally, I am embarrassed to have people come over because it's so f*cking bad. We have more thistle than lawn. We have half-built planters in the backyard. We have a truck that we pay insurance on that sits on the parking pad for months on end because hubby refuses to sell it, doesn't know how to fix it, and won't let me take it to a mechanic. There's a pile of dirt we were going to use to regrade the front lawn that he swore he was going to move by hand, that is still sitting exactly where it was set down, 4 years ago. Add to that the fact he has NO clue about bad our finances looked, so I started working more and more and more. And I checked out.

 

Obviously feeling bad about himself, he found someone who saw him as sparkly and wonderful, who didn't remind him of how badly his home and marriage were falling apart, who conveniently let him put his weenie in her. While there had always been that distance between us, we still hugged and kissed, held hands, slept in the same bed with one blanket, but we never fought or snarled at each other. Once the affair started, he became a complete *sshole. Gaslighting was an understatement and I thought I was going crazy. He snapped at me, slammed doors in my face, rolled his eyes at me, began sleeping across the bed under a separate blanket... I was paranoid, I started having anxiety attacks, I thought I was seriously going crazy. I told him I missed "us" but he was so far gone by then he just said, "Well, fix it then." When I tried to initiate sex, he rejected me. Ha. Ha ha. What a bassturd.

 

I felt extraordinarily stupid for not catching on sooner, but there you have the "nuts and bolts" of what happened. Obviously there are multiple layers more, but I think this kind of sums up the timeline of how things went down.

 

 

 

 

IMHO there's your sign.

 

At least at that time when you tried to drop your yoke of perfectionism and along with it your sexuality and connection with him, he sought it elsewhere.

 

What if you did it now? If you did it now what do you think he would do and do? Would he step up to the plate this time and come through?

 

Or would he slink back to his old ways and back to OW or another OW?

 

If he steps up and comes through, then you can decide if its good enough or not.

 

If instead he steps out or checks out or simply moves on, then you have your answer.

 

I think in way he was right after Dday. Maybe you two do want different things. You want perfectionism and tidy, well maintained home and property and everything in it's place and you are willing to work late into the night and work your fingers bloody to get it. And you resent him and look down on him for not sharing your ambition.

 

He may be perfectly happy sitting in front of the TV with a microwaved frozen dinner in his lap in a little apartment that requires minimal cleaning and no maintenance. He's happy and satisfied in tiny apartment and lifestyle that doesn't ask much of him and would be happy with a woman who appreciates him and likes him for him and doesn't see him as a failure and a bump on a log.

 

I don't question that he loves you and wants to make you happy and for you to love and respect and desire him. I just don't know if he is the kind of man that every can truly respect and admire and for a woman, her desire and attraction are so closely interwoven with her respect and admiration.

 

I'm not sure you can reconcile this unless one of you transforms into a different person :-(

 

What he sees as "working on himself" is being nice to you and treating you the best that he can whilst keeping his penis out of other women.

 

Where as What you would see as "working on himself" is a completely different reality and one for which he can probably never obtain.

 

No matter how hard he works on himself, he can never become another you.

[oldshirt]

And I'm going to throw this out there as just some food for thought.

 

Does he at least clean up after himself and/or carry his own weight? yes/no?

 

He'll never be the dynamo you want him to be and will never match your level of perfectionism and ambition.

 

But does having him in the house create more or less net work for you on average?

 

....and here is where I am going with this. If you two were to split and he was gone, you would still be a perfectionist. You will still be up late doing the dishes, will still be mowing the lawn and making sure the bills were paid and making sure that the blades of grass coming up through the cracks in the sidewalk were pulled out.

 

Would having him out of the house make your workload more or would it make it less? Or would it even matter? If he was gone, would you just find something else to fret over?

 

What that all boils down to is this relationship a benefit to you, or is it toxic and a burden to you?

 

If weigh all the pros and cons and the net effect is the M is a benefit to you, then you have some hard decisions to make and compromises to make and possibly some hard therapy and concessions to make in order to make it a more enjoyable and healthy relationship.

 

If you weigh everything and the net effect is the M is toxic to you and you would be healthier, happier and live a better life without him, then your decision is pretty easy even though it may involve some tears and sadness initially.

 

It comes down to a simple question Ann Landers used to ask her readers when she was still alive - 'are you better off with him, or without him?"

 

That's a question only you can answer.

[flowergirl14]

Now to get back to your situation.

 

I want to throw in another "what if?"

 

What if: What if you just dumped all of that baggage off of your shoulders and just released yourself from all that pressure and just lived in the moment???

 

What if you just said, f(k it and just woke up one morning and didn't worry about anything that wasn't bleeding and wasn't on fire in front of you that day.

 

What if you didn't try to be 'perfect' and just tried to be marginally adequate?

 

What if you told yourself it was your husband's responsibility to come home if he wanted to, rub your feet if he wanted to, or packed up left if he wanted to?

 

What if you just said, "not my problem" and just lived in the moment regardless if he comes home at the end of the day or not?

 

OK that was a bunch of 'what ifs' but they are all rolled up into one. The general question is what if you just lived in the moment and didn't burn up headspace wondering about the future?

 

I'm not talking about neglecting bills or not changing the oil in the car or not contributing to your retirement plan or the kid's college fun etc. I'm not talking about being irresponsible or neglectful of the pertinent things in life.

 

I'm just saying, what if you just let this go and let the cards fall however they may??

 

Can you simply be yourself and do what you want to do and live your life how you want to live and give yourself the freedom to let him do the same?

 

Then if he comes home - there he is. His choice. If you want to enjoy his company- there it is.

 

If he doesn't come home - then you're free to go do whatever you want. what he does as a grown man is not your problem anymore.

 

What would happen if you just released all your fear and uncertainty and just lived????

 

I try to live in the moment and be present with myself, family, kids. My h still cheats and still comes home every single day. Some days I have a total I dont gove a f attitude and I thouroughly enjoy said day. Other days im a mess and I think there has to be a better life out there than spending it with my cheater, liar and betrayer. Good words of advice by old shirt but hard to do.

[understand50]

I see so few people on this forum for whom reconciliation worked so that everyone is happy. Again Mr and Mrs A come to mind, but no one else does. Honestly other than those two, if a couple were happily reconciled why are they here immersed in affair land. I wouldnt be, I would be putting it behind me and living my life. Says alot in my opinion, but thats just me.

 

Moxie Lady,

 

OK, fair question, why am I on Love Shack, if I am in a happy successful marriage? Short answer, Trying to understand. Long answer, there have been two major crises in our long relationship and marriage. First was her, ONS, before we were married. That was processed, and put behind us many years ago. The second, one, her over spending to the point of us losing our house, was in the last 8 years ago. From that crises, came much work to stay married, and rebuild trust. The fact of her first betrayal, just added to the whole mix, as I found past issues came back to some extent.

 

Financial infidelity, and sexual infidelity, share many of the same features. Both have at their core betrayal and lying. Both are destructive, and both most likely lead to divorce. I do find, as someone who has been able to, and continue to, reconcile, that I am against the automatic idea, that divorce must be the only response. I came here to see if, any other couples had gone trough the same thing. Picking are rather slim on that score, and I got involved giving my opinions, and thoughts on questions from others.

 

Now for you, divorce is the right answer, and you have been successful. It works for you. Many would like to try and reconcile, for reasons that they consider worth while. I try and give a way that worked for me, or just encouragement. Reconciliation is harder to do then just divorcing. It requires much hard work, on both sides, and it has it highs and its low.

 

We have been able to stay together for over 40 years, and have weathered, many storms. Not that I, or my wife are paragons, or special, we are just plain people, but committed to each other. I think OhNoYouDidNot, is on a "low" right now. Maybe, she is just so angry, that divorce is the only solution, but I believe that this is a major step, and I would hope she listens to all sides. If she divorces, her children will partly blame her, even if they know her husband cheated. Her life will change, maybe for the better, maybe not. In any case, as they have children, she will have to be in some type of relationship with her husband for the rest of their life. They share children, and a time together.

 

Divorce does not wipe that out. All our history together, painful, joyful, and just plain, is ours to build on. Divorce, would just be a painful part, and because we now share grandchildren, we would just be living apart. I hope she will continue to reconcile, but maybe look at what they are doing and try something else. I know, that I try all sorts of things to work on our marriage, and my wife does as well.

 

That is my main message, infidelity or not, marriage itself is hard work, and that work never stops, as both change, age and grow. What others are going trough and have the courage to share on Love shack, just adds to my knowledge.

 

Lastly, for those that have "tried" to read my posts in the past, I am not the worlds best writer. In fact, I find writing hard. Posting on LS forces me think and put down on "paper" a reasonable response to a question or to lets me give a helpful, from my point of view, post to someone who has asked. I find to do a good job I must edit. My more disjointed posts are when I am in a hurry. In many ways, posting on LS helps me by improving my writing. Always know that I do believe in and try my best to post something helpful, even if it is nothing more then "I am sorry for your troubles, and hope things get better" It is why I end "wishing luck", as sometimes it is the only thing that can be done.

 

Moxie Lady, I wish you luck, and hope you have what you are looking for, and that whatever life gives you, you continue the "good" fight.

 

I wish you luck......

[flowergirl14]

Wow, you've met my ex-wife?

 

Once we agreed we'd try to work things out post D-Day for the sake of our young son, she determined her contribution to the R was complete. And any questioning of her commitment was met with that exact "I'm here ain't I" response.

 

We made it 13 more months, only because I'm supremely stubborn...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Mr Lucky, I heard the same thing. " Im here arent I." Another classic cheater response. Add that to " I love you but I'm not in love with you."

[OhNoYouDidNot]

tl;dr My dear oldshirt, "An affair is not a reflection of the betrayed spouse's inadequacy, but of the betrayer's." Infidelity is traumatic, but it is not your fault. Staying or leaving after an affair.

 

At least at that time when you tried to drop your yoke of perfectionism and along with it your sexuality and connection with him, he sought it elsewhere.

 

Why do you repeatedly validate my WH's pre-affair marital unhappiness but mine is unreasonable? My own husband doesn't blame me for his affair, and here you are not only justifying his actions but dismissing mypre-affair marital dissatisfaction as being arrogant, superficial and irrelevant. Multiple times. In multiple replies. What gives, oldshirt? It seems you've got a bone to pick I'm just not sure why it's with me lol

 

I think you have it in your head that I am some kind of uptight ball-busting cow who nags 24-7 over the towels being folded correctly and the silverware being properly polished, the soup cans being alphabetized, and the cups facing relative north in the cupboard... I admit, I have my spice jars on one side arranged "parsley sage rosemary thyme" but I don't think that's OCD. I think its FUNNY. I'm so low maintenance and easy to please it's ridiculous. If you knew me, you'd know that if I was any more down to earth I'd be dirt. If I was any more chill I'd give myself frostbite. If I was any more laid back I'd be touching my toes backwards.

 

I don't spend a lot of time primping or doing my make-up or going to the spa, whatever is clean and fits I wear, I dislike shopping, I prefer eating at home, I'm a great cook and love entertaining our family and friends, I am not a careless or frivolous spender, I ride my bike or take the bus to work, and my idea of "date night" is making the older kids watch with the younger ones, getting a bottle of wine, and going down to the train yard to check out graffiti on the cars. I sew the kids' Halloween costumes and go to all the games, tournaments, meets, and performances I can. I volunteer in the school. I'm a dedicated professional and am not afraid of hard work, but I'm far from a workaholic. Our honeymoon after we renewed our vows? We tented our way around Hawaii. I have already disclosed that I have guilt/anxiety, residual issues from religion and my abusive first husband, a handful (understandably) of trust issues my husband's affair, and I had an eating disorder when I was a teen that sometimes rears its ugly head when I am stressed out which I talk about so I don't have a relapse. All of which I go to therapy for instead of blaming my husband.

 

You ask does WH carry his own weight? Honestly? Only if nagged. Although he has taken it upon himself to wash the laundry. This includes putting it in the washer and dryer, then moving it into a basket that sits on the floor in the basement. We don't use dressers. We live out of laundry baskets. I say this literally and not figuratively. That began when I gave up my "yoke of perfectionism" and instead of fight with him about folding and dressers and stuff, since I always have clean pants it's a win. He does dishes once or twice a week (we're a big family so we try and take turns...) Most of the other household things he does ONLY when I ask for help or when I start doing it myself and get bumped because he feels bad watching me work. In 13 years, he has never once scrubbed a toilet without being asked or without company coming over, and he has literally never, not even once, cleaned the shower stall. He usually mows the lawn after catching me trying to start the lawn mower. The only difference between me asking my kids to do it and asking him to do it is that I shouldn't have to remind a man in his 40s that at least once every 6 months or so, he should clean the g*ddamned shower stall.

 

I think in way he was right after Dday. Maybe you two do want different things. You want perfectionism and tidy, well maintained home and property and everything in it's place and you are willing to work late into the night and work your fingers bloody to get it. And you resent him and look down on him for not sharing your ambition.

 

WHOA. Back the truck WAY up. I do not look down on him. Where did you even get that from?! HE has said he feels like a failure. HE has said that he hates those things about himself HE is the one who is unhappy about it. HE is the one who wants to do better and BLOCKS me from helping... HE is accountable for that. So now not only is the affair my fault, but his personal esteem issues? Puh. Leez. I will, however, own the fact that resentment is growing. In fact, that's kind of why I posted - cuz I want feedback on how people in similar situations handled that.

 

In a family of 7, I would hardly consider making sure the kitchen is cleaned before breakfast happens is an example of me working my fingers bloody. And unless by "perfectionism and tidy" you mean my request that the laundry hamper be put back in the bathroom after it's taken into the laundry room - you've mistaken me for some other ambitious person lmao.

 

I'm going to give you an example of what you presume to be my completely unrealistic perfectionist expectations and how things pan out when these extraordinarily unattainable and overly-ambitious standards are not met.

 

Me, at 5:30pm: "I'm going out to shovel the walk - it's going to ice up... make sure the onions in that pan don't burn..."

Him: "Oh, you're cooking dinner - you finish that, I'll get the walk after supper..."

~toodles off to watch some TV, eats dinner, goes to watch more TV~

Me: "Hey, it's 7:30 and it's already icing over - are you going to shovel the walk?"

Him: "I SAID I would do it!"

~hears me putting my jacket and boots on at 9:30pm, comes up the stairs glaring at me, huffing indignantly, and slamming doors~

Him: "Go sit down - I'll do it. I just want to finish this episode..."

 

Two days later we got a $300 bill from the City because guess what - he didn't shovel the walk, and wouldn't let me do it, so the city sent a bobcat to break up the ice, charged us for their services, and slapped us with a fine. Please, tell me how I should feel about this if I could just shuck this silly old yolk of perfection? That hill of dirt that has sat there for 4 years? The broken down truck that we pay $180/month to keep the leaves in the backyard from blowing off the parking pad? The other ticket we got from the City because he wanted to fix the weed whacker and refused to let me buy a new one or borrow the neighbour's? I'm being a "perfectionist" with unrealistic expectations? Pfft. I don't know what kind of picture of me you have painted in your head but clearly you are projecting some obsessions with perfectionism that YOU have onto my situation lol.

 

He may be perfectly happy sitting in front of the TV with a microwaved frozen dinner in his lap in a little apartment that requires minimal cleaning and no maintenance. He's happy and satisfied in tiny apartment and lifestyle that doesn't ask much of him and would be happy with a woman who appreciates him and likes him for him and doesn't see him as a failure and a bump on a log.

 

Again, with these HUGE accusations, you presumptuous little fellow! I didn't say I see him as a failure. More importantly, he would agree that he does not feel like I see him as a failure or a bump on a log. He would tell you he feels my frustration, but you really are making a lot of assumptions based on something entirely not related to our reality. Is this how you feel in your relationship?

 

To reiterate, HE sees himself as a failure. He procrastinates, gets angry with me when I nag, gets mad at me if I try and pay someone else to do it, and physically stops me from doing things myself. HE feels like he disappoints me, but really he disappoints himself. HE says he feels inadequate. Me? I just want sh*t to get done. I'm caught in the crosshairs of his weird "if I don't do it nobody else is allowed" thing. I don't care how or by whom sh*t gets done. (Unless it's the city and it comes with a fine.) I'm willing to do it myself, get the kids to help, pay someone else to do it, accept the kindness of strangers, let my husband do it... I LOVE when my husband does it because he feels proud of himself and happy that he finished something he started. I have never ever not ONCE said anything of that sort to him, and when he starts beating himself up about it, I reassure him that I don't care that he is not a handyman/mechanic/appliance repairman/plumber/roofer/tiler/carpenter. HE puts that pressure on himself. The first time he expressed that he was freaked out about not being able to be all those things I said, "Do you know anyone who has all those skills?" "No..." "Would you expect me to have that many skills?" "No..." "Do you think I expect you to be and do all those things?" "No..." You tell me now, oldshirt. Is it really as simple as, "Take off the yoke of perfection and everyone will live happily ever after?"

 

I am pretty sure that's why the affair fantasy was so appealing to him - because he could make himself out to be whatever he wanted. Coming home to the mess we live in, the falling apart house and obviously depressed wife, the unfinished reno projects, the cans of unopened paint that froze over the winter and exploded on the garage floor, the $800 worth of flooring that was ruined by mice because it didn't get moved from the shed, the piles of lumber that come in the garage but never materialize into anything. When I say I am living in a dilapidated house, I mean it seriously borders on squalor. Honestly and for real. We live in an older upper middle class neighbourhood with property values well over the half-million mark, and our house looks like the Beverly Hillbillies were a classy bunch.

 

The lawn (and by lawn I mean thistle patch) ain't mowed, we got daisies and dandelions as border plants, the dog sh*t ain't picked up, we got a broke-down truck leaking black gold all over the dang neighbourhood, we ain't got a sidewalk (we done tored that up and was gonna regrade it and put in pavers, but that pile a dirt, she just be a home to ants in the middle of the back yard now...) We can't park in our double garage - all the good intentions, uh - I mean unused building supplies are there. It looks like we robbed the Home Depot. I mean it's funny, but it's not. We are "those" neighbours that keep the entire block from hitting the $750K mark due to us making the place look bad. It is overwhelming. For both of us. This is 10 years of neglect here.

 

You want to know how we finally got the kitchen painted and retiled after about 4 years of procrastination? WH went on a canoe trip with his brother and best friend, the kids were with the grandparents or co-parents, and I had the house to myself. Instead of having a girls' weekend or sleeping or reading a good book, I hauled ass to paint, do the floor tile, change the cupboard fronts, and wash everything down. All the supplies were just sitting there in the garage, the paint swatches had been agreed upon... it was as simple as dedicating that time to it. I was so damned proud of myself for getting it done, I was so excited when my family came home to a refinished kitchen. I thought it would be such a nice surprise. Well, stupid me. He was angry. Not with me though - with himself. I made him feel guilty because apparently, when I do things around the house that he feels like he should be doing, it makes him feel guilty. The initial reaction wasn't "Thanks it looks amazing!" I got, "Thanks for making me feel like sh*t" and the cold treatment for several days. Seriously. WTF, over? How do I even work with that?

 

So, oldshirt, this has nothing to do with me appreciating him or not respecting who he is or not accepting his limitations. It has nothing to do with some uncompromising stance (that you've bestowed upon me) on how things need to be done. In fact, what pisses me off about the assumptions you made in this part of your blatant victim shaming is that I am somehow tied the one to this f*cking "lifestyle." I don't know how to do the work, we can't afford to hire contractors, my husband is not a handy guy, and I'm not allowed to a) ask him to do things or b) do it myself because it hurts his feelings. So fine. Let's not pretend like we can have this "lifestyle." I am so completely overwhelmed by it because I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.

 

Since you mention it, I will go ahead and point out that I have been begging him begging him for 4 years to sell this albatross and move into an apartment style condo. Not a billionnaire highrise with a spectacular view of the city skyline, just a humble affordable one with a balcony that gets some sun. With 2 of the kids out now, we could settle nicely into a 3-bedroom, plant a balcony garden, and spend less time stressing and worrying. If we bought a newer condo, there would be fewer things to maintain than there are on our 50s bungalow so my husband would have no reason to feel quite so inadequate. I feel like this house is a burden on both of us albeit for completely different reasons. It would simplify our lives, give us BOTH more breathing room. We would have less work, more money, and more time, and we could manage it by ourselves and not feel so tired and overwhelmed. He envisions us living in a condo but not until we are senior citizens, so we agreed we would split the difference and stay here in the house with the taint of his lover on our living room furniture until all the kids move out, then pull the equity out of the house to get the condo and the lake lot.

 

No matter how hard he works on himself, he can never become another you.

 

If he was another me I would kill him. Again, I am not entirely sure where you got the idea that this situation leading to the affair was somehow me putting all these high-falootin' expectations on my husband that made him go elsewhere, or that I somehow feel I am better than him or he's not good enough. If he feels that way there' nothing I can do about it, is there? That is simply NOT the case. What you are doing is shifting the blame onto me for him feeling bad about himself and talking to a coworker to take his mind of his own low self-esteem and insecurity instead of working with his wife to simplify his life and talking to a professional.

 

If the system of checks and balances was as simple as deciding if I'd have it easier without him, then yes, I should leave. 100% yes. I make almost twice as much money as him and I have a greater amount of legally binding financial equity invested in our property since the purchase of this home was financed by the proceeds of the sale of my first home before we blended families. (By the way, I strongly suggest we don't start in on some bullsh*t about him feeling emasculated by our income disparity as justifying his affair - I could and would have lowered our standard of living and worked less...) I could go live in a little condo and buy a lake lot for the camper and have time and money to travel and camp (that's the retirement plan we had, by the way, that he no longer wanted during the A but now claims he likes again) and best of all, have the ability to call a contractor or use a mechanic when something is broken and I can't fix it myself, and never again touch a shovel or lawn mower.

 

What would I be walking away from? 30 years of history and shared memories. The father of my youngest child, and more of a father to his stepsons than my first husband ever will be. The man who brings me bunches of wildflowers like a 5-year old. The person who supported me through countless horrible boyfriends and my nasty ugly divorce, a miscarriage, my father's death, my mother's mental health issues. The man who when he doesn't answer his phone or text me back fast enough I worry if he's forgotten his phone or been in an accident. The man whose armpits smell like heaven (pheremones!) and who is so familiar to me I could draw you the constellations of every scar and mole on his body. Even when the present is uncomfortable, familiarity is comforting. He is "the evil I know" as someone put it. I appreciate his dedication to work, his creativity, his curiosity, his passion for coaching and playing sports, and his skill in making the perfect omelette.

 

I'm going to tell you a secret: you can be angry and dissatisfied with parts of your marriage and still deeply love, cherish, and respect your spouse DESPITE the frustration. I have said, since the outset, that I have tried to fix the marriage by twisting myself in knots to adjust and adapt to the chaos of our lives. I stopped nagging when he told me it made him feel bad. He stopped helping when I stopped nagging. I started doing everything myself until he told me that made him feel bad too. So I stopped doing everything and the house started falling apart. Seeing the house fall apart (which if you're smart will see is a parallel of our marriage) apart depressed us both. So I stopped caring. And putting out. It wasn't to punish him. I was just tired of running in circles. I told him I missed us. I asked him what we could do to fix things, and he never had any suggestions or took any initiative. If I took initiative he would sulk and pout. Either one of us could have said look, we have got to stop this insanity, but that's not what happened. The affair? Not my fault. So please stop accusing my "yoke of perfectionism" of continuing to ruin what would otherwise be a lovely marriage.

 

I have, however, come to a resolution. And I've *sort* of devised a plan of attack.

 

I'm not going to start nagging again. F*ck that noise. But, I also know that the house in its current state will not sell for what it's worth. I am instead going to lead by example and start taking proper care of our investment again. Whether we end up selling it after the kids leave, living in it for another 20 years, or divorcing and selling it, it is in both of our best interests to start doing the long-overdue repairs and maintenance, yard work, purging, and renovations.

 

For the last four years my motto has been, if nobody else cares about the state of the house, why should I? But, I do. I always have. And I know that I *can* do it all if I have to. What I intend to do is simply take ownership of it, without bitterness, without accusation. As you said, oldshirt, he's either going to come on board or jump ship. Perhaps working on the house will give us something to bond over, as well as provide a brilliant metaphor that for examining how the state of our house has reflected the state of our marriage. Maybe he will start to care, too. And maybe it'll just get the house fixed up to sell and be a dry run of what it's like to be single and do what needs to get done without being bullied into inaction. Either way, it will disrupt status quo. #winning

[OhNoYouDidNot]

In any case, as they have children, she will have to be in some type of relationship with her husband for the rest of their life. They share children, and a time together.

 

We would seriously rock at co-parenting since we've already got a blended family. If we had divorced during d-day and trickle truth and slamming doors and him moving in and out of the house multiple times with the fighting and the angry and in each other's grill, it would have been traumatizing for our littlest one. She did the death wail when it was tabled as an option. However, if we were to sit down and talk about it now, I think the kids would all be supportive and understanding, though disappointed. Because we faced the beast already and hammered out a reasonable divorce agreement already, there would be no animosity between us - uncontested divorces are pretty straightforward where I live - but it'd be an awkward transition to being unmarried, especially if he went back to the OW to resume their relationship.

 

But, I'm not done yet. Don't give up on me, sir.

[LivingWaterPlease]

I'm one who didn't stay and if I had it to do over again I believe I would stay. Life with children for a single mom is very difficult. Also, many of the men who are available to date come with their own baggage.

 

I try to encourage everyone I know to keep their marriage together if possible, especially where children are involved.

 

You have five children! That alone would wear a person out and cause a mom to feel exhausted. I'm wondering if some of your exhaustion and discouragement with life is also a natural result of parenting five children!? From what you've written it seems to me you are putting large burdens of expectations for yourself on your shoulders.

 

Can you get away for a few days and have some time to yourself? In my opinion, you really may need it. I'm not claiming it will change everything in a moment but you seem to really need some relief.

 

So sorry for what you've been through and continue to go through. For me, I could never have made it through without my faith in God. I've faced some very tough times and He is the One who has always pulled me through. I believe life is, for most people, tougher than what we expected it to be, but God has brought me joy and peace in the midst of difficulties.

 

Sending hugs to you! (((((OhNoYouDidNot)))))

[OhNoYouDidNot]

Life with children for a single mom is very difficult. Also, many of the men who are available to date come with their own baggage.

 

Sending hugs to you! (((((OhNoYouDidNot)))))

 

I was a single mom for about 5 years between my xH and WH. I agree it's not easier but because it's not unfamiliar, it won't be a difficult transition. Dating again - FML. The last time I was in the dating pool, the term catfish had not been coined. OLD has forever changed the dating scene and I'm not sure I can handle that. I work at a place filled with intelligent, educated, self-sufficient middle-aged men who have divorces and kids of their own - that might sound like baggage to some, but to me it means the possibility of meeting someone who doesn't still want a baby and appreciates the fine art of co-parenting.

 

5 altogether, only one of those (the child we have together) is full time. Our youngest is a tween, and the oldest are in their 20s - it's not like I have a houseful of toddlers. The older kids both work full time and are a lot less demanding than the teenagers, they pay rent, they are expected to pitch in with the housework which they do, but only if I nag LOL... Our life is changing. Our need to have the giant house has passed - we don't have to have a sandbox and kiddie pool in a fully fenced yard and a 5-bedroom house anymore.

 

I have taken breaks and my husband has pushed me to take more because he knows I am frustrated and tired, but I'll be perfectly honest - I'm not able to relax without being close to home yet. HUGE trigger. Going away for the weekend alone would just cause me no end of anxiety because the last time I went away overnight and left him alone, he brought his xOW into our house. Granted, that was over 2 years ago, but I won't apologize for being very triggered by that. GNO? Yes - I get those all the time. I have a healthy, active social life both independent of and with my WH.

 

I'm not a religious person (staunch but tolerant non-militant atheist) but I accept prayers and hugs from anywhere I can get them. Thanks for your kind words and validation.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I have learned that I made many mistakes 44 years ago. I was superwoman... And John was the king of his castle.

 

I watch my own children in their relationships.. And wow have things changed!

 

My son probably does more in the household than my dil... And my sil.. Certainly does more than my daughter.

 

I think how you set the precedence early in the marriage is where it will remain.

 

I will be honest with you... I would kick your husband in the butt..

 

Fixing things that break.. Maintenance on an investment like a home or a car... Is a responsibility shared by both of you. If you run the household.. The least he can do is fix stuff that is broken.. And if he can't... Then he has to bite the bullet and pay someone to do it.

 

I am not a nagger .. But I certainly let it be known when something needs repair. Husbands like to do things in their own time ... I think thTs a common trait.. Lol.. But if I ask twice... I will do it myself... And he knows momma ain't happy.

 

Your husband seems lazy, irresponsible, and selfish

 

I believe in communication.. If you are not happy then you should tell him... And if he's not happy he should tell you

 

How can you "fix" the relationship if nobody talks?

 

I think you need a come to Jesus meeting... Lay all the cards on the table and decide if you care enough about each other to heal and fix what is broken.

 

No one here can decide that for you...

 

Sometimes I think we might be surprised how our spouse might react once they really "hear" what we are saying.

 

You sound like a strong woman.. And this ain't your first rodeo.

 

Be true to yourself... Take care of you and make decsions based on what is best for you.. Not for him

 

Your kids will be fine... Regardless ...

[NTV]

It sounds like you have a lot of resentment on the home improvement / chores piece of your relationship.

 

 

Would setting aside a chore day with chore lists help that?