preraph Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 I don't know any women who, when given a choice between an assertive man and an unassertive man, would choose unassertive. Assertiveness seems to go hand in hand with confidence, but not always. It can come with someone mentally imbalanced or a psychopath too. So it's not infallible. But as far as attraction, women don't like fearfulness and guys desperate enough that they're afraid to make a misstep and always either fumbling around or just hovering in "wait" mode hoping the woman will take the lead. But I have to say it seems to me, from my experience, that some men confuse "assertive" and "confident" with being an arrogant jackass. They overcompensate. But even some of those do alright simply because they're willing to stick their neck out and meet a lot of people because they're social. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
preraph Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Men like to feel they are attractive too you know. We have self-esteem issues around our looks. I see a lot on this forum about women wanting to be told they're beautiful all the time (mostly guys saying it, though). That was never my experience. Most women I knew didn't need compliments like that. They rightly assumed if a man was with them, they found her attractive enough in one way or another. I mean, I guess everyone likes to be told they look sharp on an occasion they've gone to some trouble to do so and are out of their everyday garb, or when they got a new haircut or whatever. But I don't know any women who NEED that validation. It's some really insecure people who need that regularly, men or women. When I was younger, most guys seemed like they felt their looks hardly mattered. It was a sign of the times, I think. Some of us girls used to marvel at how confident some of the least attractive men were, thinking they were a little too proud of themselves, couldn't imagine why some much better looking woman with everything going for her wasn't choosing them, whereas the girls were always struggling amongst themselves to look like the models in the magazines and on TV. We see a lot of insecure people, men and women, on this board, and I do think it reflects some societal trends, but it's not a fair representation of the real world. More people are out there living life and not worrying too much about it and making it work than it looks like from this particular hill. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Men like to feel they are attractive too you know. We have self-esteem issues around our looks. There are probably only 2 or 3 good looking men for every 25 good looking women.... Thank God women place less weight on looks than men do...If that wasn't the case, more than half the guys on this planet would never get laid... TFY 2 Link to post Share on other sites
losangelena Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Men like to feel they are attractive too you know. We have self-esteem issues around our looks. Jesus, I know! It's not like I don't understand that. I just find your generalizations tiring. I get that you have a particular experience and see things from a certain perspective. But to say that an entire gender doesn't struggle the way you struggle is patently false. Every gender, hell, every person, struggles in some way. Just because you don't THINK some women don't struggle the way you do doesn't mean they don't. Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperion227 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Some of us girls used to marvel at how confident some of the least attractive men were, thinking they were a little too proud of themselves And there's how it is. If you're a guy who isn't good looking then women just think you're pathetic for believing you're worth something. So you either have the choice of being wilfully oblivious to how silly you look as an unattractive man trying to make out like you can attract women or you can face the truth and let these kinds of prejudices put you in your place. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 And there's how it is. If you're a guy who isn't good looking then women just think you're pathetic for believing you're worth something. So you either have the choice of being wilfully oblivious to how silly you look as an unattractive man trying to make out like you can attract women or you can face the truth and let these kinds of prejudices put you in your place. Only if you assume that "good looking" and "attractive" are synonyms. They aren't, as the women on this thread and others have been saying. I am not a conventionally good-looking man and never have been, but that's okay and it's not caused me a great deal of trouble with women because I have brought other qualities to the table. When I attracted my now-wife, I barely had two nickels to rub together and was a typical dumbass kid. But I was fun to be with, positive, and pretty damn funny if I do say so myself. That was my hook, and it worked just fine. 9 Link to post Share on other sites
normal person Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Well without knowing who carried out the 'study' or who it was commissioned by or the methodology it's impossible to judge how trustworthy this is. You do realise that most of those studies that pop-up online or in news stories are extremely dubious don't you? Yes, I have a masters degree. I'm pretty scrupulous. If I saw it on Buzzfeed, I wouldn't reference it here. The source seemed credible enough to at least entertain the idea that it might have some validity to it. But thanks for your concern. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Double post. Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperion227 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Only if you assume that "good looking" and "attractive" are synonyms. They aren't, as the women on this thread and others have been saying. Yes I am assuming that because the overwhelming evidence I see in life is that they are synonymous. Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Yes I am assuming that because the overwhelming evidence I see in life is that they are synonymous. And my experience is otherwise, so using your decision matrix I can justifiably say you're dead wrong. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperion227 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 And my experience is otherwise, so using your decision matrix I can justifiably say you're dead wrong. In that case we're both right and both wrong at the same time. Schrodinger would have something to say on the matter. Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Can girls sense it when a guy feels like he has nothing to lose? Are girls attracted to that attitude? Generally no. Confidence is attractive, not recklessness. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Schrodinger would have something to say on the matter. Only if we're talking about keeping women in our car trunks. 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperion227 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Only if we're talking about keeping women in our car trunks. The Jozef Frizl defence. My family are not in the cellar (my family are in the cellar). Link to post Share on other sites
Aniela Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 And there's how it is. If you're a guy who isn't good looking then women just think you're pathetic for believing you're worth something. So you either have the choice of being wilfully oblivious to how silly you look as an unattractive man trying to make out like you can attract women or you can face the truth and let these kinds of prejudices put you in your place. Women have dealt with exactly the same thing. But women aren't all attracted to the same men, as others have mentioned. I have a type looks-wise, but there have been men I've found attractive, who look totally different. I've had a crush on a few men, that friends of mine wouldn't have looked twice at - different women, different tastes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 The Jozef Frizl defence. My family are not in the cellar (my family are in the cellar). You're a smart guy; too smart to apply anecdotal evidence to how attraction works for 3.5 billion women. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperion227 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Women have dealt with exactly the same thing. But women aren't all attracted to the same men, as others have mentioned. I have a type looks-wise, but there have been men I've found attractive, who look totally different. I've had a crush on a few men, that friends of mine wouldn't have looked twice at - different women, different tastes. Well as I say I have two profiles on plenty of fish. The good looking guy gets endless messages. Many many messages from women who are very much at the lower end of the attractiveness scale. They've been told they are beautiful and are entirely confident that they can bag a hot guy. If I send a woman a message I cringe after sending it because I know they they probably are thinking like peraph said up thread, like, why on Earth is he messaging me? I'm not allowed to be attractive because I didn't win the genetic lottery. And my two profiles online show EXACTLY how much beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's not. Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperion227 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 You're a smart guy; too smart to apply anecdotal evidence to how attraction works for 3.5 billion women. Oh yeah sure I'm smart. And funny. Women love to tell me how funny I am. Usually just before they point out how hot the guy at the bar is. Link to post Share on other sites
Aniela Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Well as I say I have two profiles on plenty of fish. The good looking guy gets endless messages. Many many messages from women who are very much at the lower end of the attractiveness scale. They've been told they are beautiful and are entirely confident that they can bag a hot guy. If I send a woman a message I cringe after sending it because I know they they probably are thinking like peraph said up thread, like, why on Earth is he messaging me? I'm not allowed to be attractive because I didn't win the genetic lottery. And my two profiles online show EXACTLY how much beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It's not. So I'm not telling the truth? And neither is anyone else here? I'm not talking about online dating - I'm talking about a person as a whole, their personality. And maybe those women were actually considered beautiful. It doesn't make it untrue, just because you don't think so. Also: I don't see why women should act any different from men in online dating. There are plenty of men who just go for the most attractive women out there. I was overlooked by men that I found attractive. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperion227 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 So I'm not telling the truth? And neither is anyone else here? I'm not talking about online dating - I'm talking about a person as a whole, their personality. And maybe those women were actually considered beautiful. It doesn't make it untrue, just because you don't think so. Also: I don't see why women should act any different from men in online dating. There are plenty of men who just go for the most attractive women out there. I was overlooked by men that I found attractive. I think people like to see themselves as not shallow. I'm hardly surprised that any woman would think that they're not attracted by good looks. That doesn't necessarilymake it so. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 I'm not in the game and have no experience other than what I hear... I don't think OLD is a good way for anyone to judge anything....Seems like women get a false sense of their own desireability, as tons of guys on there probably just message every woman on there (shotgun approach) and hope to land someone to screw..So how does the average guy get noticed?? If you are a guy of quality and substance, you will have to somehow get beyond that crap..But guys of quality and substance don't generally have any trouble attracting women.. I am no perfect anything, but never in my entire life have I experienced or heard how ridiculously difficult it is to get a date or attract women than what I read here....The way it reads sometimes its as if its harder than implementing cold fusion.. I'm a 5'6" guy, btw... TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
PrettyEmily77 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 I don't if it's that time of year or because people are becoming more and more shallow in general, but the number of threads on hotness/bench presses/concerns of GFs gaining half a pound and is therefore automatically on her way to clinical obesity but it really makes for depressing/disconcerting reading. OP, is there no way at all you could concentrate on other (some might say more important) traits in someone? Because in all fairness, most other people do. Even if you were frustrated or self-conscious / unhappy or whatever, your thread title is a bit difficult to take seriously. But to answer the question: no, women don't get attracted to people randomly regardless of what they/the object of their attention looks like. There is ALWAYS a reason. 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Aniela Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 I think people like to see themselves as not shallow. I'm hardly surprised that any woman would think that they're not attracted by good looks. That doesn't necessarilymake it so. I didn't say that I've never been attracted to good looks. But I don't appreciate your deciding that I'm deluding myself when it comes to who I've been attracted to. I had a really good-looking man in my life, and told him where to go, because of who he was as a person. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Aniela Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 I'm not in the game and have no experience other than what I hear... I don't think OLD is a good way for anyone to judge anything....Seems like women get a false sense of their own desireability, as tons of guys on there probably just message every woman on there (shotgun approach) and hope to land someone to screw..So how does the average guy get noticed?? If you are a guy of quality and substance, you will have to somehow get beyond that crap..But guys of quality and substance don't generally have any trouble attracting women.. I am no perfect anything, but never in my entire life have I experienced or heard how ridiculously difficult it is to get a date or attract women than what I read here....The way it reads sometimes its as if its harder than implementing cold fusion.. I'm a 5'6" guy, btw... TFY I don't think the women do have a false sense of their own desirability. I know that I didn't. Especially when I got messaged more than once by several men, with exactly the same message each time (forgetting they had messaged me before). 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Hyperion227 Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 (edited) I didn't say that I've never been attracted to good looks. But I don't appreciate your deciding that I'm deluding myself when it comes to who I've been attracted to. I had a really good-looking man in my life, and told him where to go, because of who he was as a person. And that's fine. I believe you. I also believed the dozens of women who I chatted to with my fake profile who said that they cared little about looks and would message back any man who wrote a message that wasn't 'hi' or something similarly perfunctory. Sadly NONE of them actually did reply when I later messaged them with my real profile. People will say one thing but behave entirely differently. Edited July 7, 2016 by Hyperion227 Link to post Share on other sites
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