Friend in need. [wife wants to loan her friend a large sum of money]

July 11, 2016

Edit..I am talking in the two hundred and fifty grand area of money spent on God knows what.

Wow. Just wow. A quarter mil of you hard earned money frittered away. Normally, I'd advise against a separation, as it will probably mean the wife also has sexual freedom to step outside the marriage without claiming she cheated. But in your case, if another man (or Ann) stepped in and 'stole' her away from you, it just might be a good thing. For sure you'd be able to retire a lot happier.

July 11, 2016

Is there a personal item you could purchase and then resell after the divorce for the same value? Like a really expensive rolex?

July 11, 2016

Edit..I am talking in the two hundred and fifty grand area of money spent on God knows what.

I'm impressed you are willing to even stay married after this sort of discovery...

July 11, 2016

Wow. Just wow. A quarter mil of you hard earned money frittered away. Normally, I'd advise against a separation, as it will probably mean the wife also has sexual freedom to step outside the marriage without claiming she cheated. But in your case, if another man (or Ann) stepped in and 'stole' her away from you, it just might be a good thing. For sure you'd be able to retire a lot happier.

Let me put that one to bed.If she ****s up just once she is out permanently.I have all her social media and email passwords plus the manager of the apt block will keep an eye on any comings or goings.Also I will call round myself any time I want to check on her.I spent a while yesterday going through her old tax Certs and I am baffled as to what she has done with all her income.

She was amazed when I showed her just how much money she spends each month,roughly two thousand euro on herself plus less than one hundred euro each week on groceries.She has no car so it is just eating lunch in expensive restaurants,hair washed and blow dried twice a week in an expensive salon,taxis everywhere when I'm not around to drive her.

The more I write the angrier I'm getting.

July 11, 2016

She was amazed when I showed her just how much money she spends each month,roughly two thousand euro on herself plus less than one hundred euro each week on groceries.She has no car so it is just eating lunch in expensive restaurants,hair washed and blow dried twice a week in an expensive salon,taxis everywhere when I'm not around to drive her.

I don't blame you for getting angry.

But I am curious about something; how long have you two been married and have you not tracked her spending before?

July 11, 2016

I don't blame you for getting angry.

But I am curious about something; how long have you two been married and have you not tracked her spending before?

We have been married sixteen years.I am from the old school that thinks a man should be the bread winner and if we had kids I would not expect my wife to work.We never had kids though and I never even thought about tracking her spending until now.

By the way I'm not holding out any great hopes for our marriage.I think it's past its sell by date but at least she is going to have to stand on her own two feet now.Maybe I'm subconsciously moving her out as a prelude to divorce.I am just so mad with her.

July 12, 2016

Money was a fear of mine at a young age - my folks talked as if we were perpetually on the verge of being evicted. I found out later that we were relatively well-off, this was their way of keeping the kids from asking for lots of stuff.

But the message stuck with me enough that I studied money, saving, spending, investing, lending, borrowing, and have been involved in financial counseling for young adults, made some of my own mistakes, grew better, and ended up doing well up to nearing retirement. So I know some stuff from both theory and boots on the ground.

Lending to friends? If they can't borrow it from a bank, it means they are high risk. They're not lower risk to friends, statistics show they're LESS likely to pay you back.

So, rule #1: Don't!

But if you must violate rule #1:

Rule #2: Assume you will lose it all, therefore lend only an amount whose loss would have no consequences on your financial life. Generally, 1% or less of your total net worth.

But if you must violate rule #2:

Rule #3: Establish a payment schedule, an interest rate, write it up as a formal loan document (you can find examples on the web) and GET IT NOTARIZED. Do not give her a break on interest - you must communicate, in financial terms, that this is not something you want to do ever again.

The reason for notarizing is that when she fails to pay/becomes delinquent, you have proof - and with this proof, the $20,000 becomes a write-off on your income taxes. You may as well get something back.

As far as having a spouse who's incompetent with money - it's common. The fear of money makes a lot of people think it's impossible to understand, therefore they don't try.

It's OK for one or both of a couple to be incompetent with money as long as they acknowledge it, and pick a financial advisor to guide them and follow the advice. I've found it's particularly difficult to teach anybody 35+ about money if they haven't bothered to learn on their own. So, don't try, but get her to understand she's not good at these decisions, so leave them up to you. If she feels that puts you in too much control, then hire a financial advisor so that she can at least have equal access to advice and knowledge.

Just my take, of course.

July 13, 2016

Money was a fear of mine at a young age - my folks talked as if we were perpetually on the verge of being evicted. I found out later that we were relatively well-off, this was their way of keeping the kids from asking for lots of stuff.

But the message stuck with me enough that I studied money, saving, spending, investing, lending, borrowing, and have been involved in financial counseling for young adults, made some of my own mistakes, grew better, and ended up doing well up to nearing retirement. So I know some stuff from both theory and boots on the ground.

Lending to friends? If they can't borrow it from a bank, it means they are high risk. They're not lower risk to friends, statistics show they're LESS likely to piiay you back.

So, rule #1: Don't!

But if you must violate rule #1:
Rule #2: Assume you will lose it all, therefore lend only an amount whose loss would have no consequences on your financial life. Generally, 1% or less of your total net worth.

But if you must violate rule #2:
Rule #3: Establish a payment schedule, an interest rate, write it up as a formal loan document (you can find examples on the web) and GET IT NOTARIZED. Do not give her a break on interest - you must communicate, in financial terms, that this is not something you want to do ever again.

The reason for notarizing is that when she fails to pay/becomes delinquent, you have proof - and with this proof, the $20,000 becomes a write-off on your income taxes. You may as well get something back.

As far as having a spouse who's incompetent with money - it's common. The fear of money makes a lot of people think it's impossible to understand, therefore they don't try.

It's OK for one or both of a couple to be incompetent with money as long as they acknowledge it, and pick a financial advisor to guide them and follow the advice. I've found it's particularly difficult to teach anybody 35+ about money if they haven't bothered to learn on their own. So, don't try, but get her to understand she's not good at these decisions, so leave them up to you. If she feels that puts you in too much control, then hire a financial advisor so that she can at least have equal access to advice and knowledge.

Just my take, of course.

Thank you for the advice.It may be too late for my wife though.

July 13, 2016

Money was a fear of mine at a young age - my folks talked as if we were perpetually on the verge of being evicted. I found out later that we were relatively well-off, this was their way of keeping the kids from asking for lots of stuff.

But the message stuck with me enough that I studied money, saving, spending, investing, lending, borrowing, and have been involved in financial counseling for young adults, made some of my own mistakes, grew better, and ended up doing well up to nearing retirement. So I know some stuff from both theory and boots on the ground.

Lending to friends? If they can't borrow it from a bank, it means they are high risk. They're not lower risk to friends, statistics show they're LESS likely to pay you back.

So, rule #1: Don't!

But if you must violate rule #1:
Rule #2: Assume you will lose it all, therefore lend only an amount whose loss would have no consequences on your financial life. Generally, 1% or less of your total net worth.

But if you must violate rule #2:
Rule #3: Establish a payment schedule, an interest rate, write it up as a formal loan document (you can find examples on the web) and GET IT NOTARIZED. Do not give her a break on interest - you must communicate, in financial terms, that this is not something you want to do ever again.

The reason for notarizing is that when she fails to pay/becomes delinquent, you have proof - and with this proof, the $20,000 becomes a write-off on your income taxes. You may as well get something back.

As far as having a spouse who's incompetent with money - it's common. The fear of money makes a lot of people think it's impossible to understand, therefore they don't try.

It's OK for one or both of a couple to be incompetent with money as long as they acknowledge it, and pick a financial advisor to guide them and follow the advice. I've found it's particularly difficult to teach anybody 35+ about money if they haven't bothered to learn on their own. So, don't try, but get her to understand she's not good at these decisions, so leave them up to you. If she feels that puts you in too much control, then hire a financial advisor so that she can at least have equal access to advice and knowledge.

Just my take, of course.

Excellent advice. I think that financial literacy should be taught in schools.

When a loved one asks to "borrow" money, I just assume that I am never going to see that cash again should I decide to help them.

If one spouse in a marriage is terrible with money, it makes sense for the more responsible one to handle the finances. This isn't about control; it's about recognizing strengths that can help a couple reach goals.

July 13, 2016

We have been married sixteen years.I am from the old school that thinks a man should be the bread winner and if we had kids I would not expect my wife to work.We never had kids though and I never even thought about tracking her spending until now.
By the way I'm not holding out any great hopes for our marriage.I think it's past its sell by date but at least she is going to have to stand on her own two feet now.Maybe I'm subconsciously moving her out as a prelude to divorce.I am just so mad with her.

My husband is traditional too. It works well for us but both partners need to be on board for this type of marriage to work out.

You have every right to be angry and I would want to give up in your situation too. Nobody can tell you what the right course of action is.

July 22, 2016

Well she has been on her own for ten days now and it has been interesting to see her try to live on her own.I called in on my way to work on Monday morning and she wasn't there,it was obvious her bed hadn't been slept in and there was no food in the cupboard.I checked on the find my iPhone app and of course she was with Ann.I went to work and called her later but I didn't say I had been in the apt.My wife said she was frightened to stay on her own and had stayed with a friend.I asked her did she want a divorce and told her I will give her three days to make up her mind.She didn't stay one night in the apt,no heating was used or hot water.She still doesn't know that I realise she is staying with Ann and I think she has contacted a solicitor with regard to divorce.At this stage I don't believe a word she says.Also she is already behind with the rent after just over a week,it was supposed to come out of her account every Thursday but the apt block manager said she has not paid anything and it was me paid the deposit.

Edited July 22, 2016 by enddeck

July 23, 2016

ya know, i have been in similar situations, given the help, and often never been paid back. But, my personal feeling on this is we were put on this earth to help each other, so i would loan the money again.

I think you should try to support your wife, and scrape up some way to help her friend out. Just point out that the money might be gone for good to your wife, just so she realizes the sacrifice you both are about to make.

July 23, 2016

ya know, i have been in similar situations, given the help, and often never been paid back. But, my personal feeling on this is we were put on this earth to help each other, so i would loan the money again.

I think you should try to support your wife, and scrape up some way to help her friend out. Just point out that the money might be gone for good to your wife, just so she realizes the sacrifice you both are about to make.

That is the rub.She will not have made any sacrifice but will look like a hero to her poison friend for giving her the money. I don't know how much of this thread you have read but I'm glad you can throw money away like that.

July 23, 2016

I think your wife is no longer your wife. At his point, if it were me, I would welcome her running off to live with that she-devil Ann. If she even has to wait the entire 3 days to give you an answer as to whether she wants to stay married to you, and if she has already been to a solicitor, and especially now that she is, for all intents and purposes, living with her girlfriend Ann, I would consider her actions answer enough. I would send this one packing. It sounds like Ann is in charge anyway. You can do better - heck, if you went to the kennel and bought a nice dog for companionship, it sounds like that would even be better than what you have now!

Edited July 23, 2016 by Poutrew

July 23, 2016

I think your wife is no longer your wife. At his point, if it were me, I would welcome her running off to live with that she-devil Ann. If she even has to wait the entire 3 days to give you an answer as to whether she wants to stay married to you, and if she has already been to a solicitor, and especially now that she is, for all intents and purposes, living with her girlfriend Ann, I would consider her actions answer enough. I would send this one packing. It sounds like Ann is in charge anyway. You can do better - heck, if you went to the kennel and bought a nice dog for companionship, it sounds like that would even be better than what you have now!

This. I don't know what kind of wife would choose her friend over her husband. She also sounds dreadfully immature and irresponsible.

This is why it's great for people to live alone before they marry; living independently is great learning experience for life skills such as budgeting.

Sadly, your wife will only know what she has lost when it is too late.

July 24, 2016

OP Good job on protecting your money. your wife is no wife she's a selfish narcissistic nightmare of a woman, along with her friend who is even worse that chick is so scary oh my god. Go file right now. look at how your marriage started, it was an omen. Actually huge red flag. Take care yourself buddy and keep posting

Edited July 26, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edited for decency and speculation ~ V

July 24, 2016

OP I only read a few of these posts and I would bet a pound to a penny that your wife and this woman have more than just "friendship" going for them.

Please take all steps to protect yourself and your assets.

I'm sorry x

July 24, 2016

I think the bigger problem is that the wife and her friend were plotting to take $20,000 dollars without her husband's consent.

Edited July 26, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

July 24, 2016

2,000 euros a month spending on stuff isn't that much money really if you have no kids and have a house, double income.

You've been married for 16 years, you have had full control over her and have treated her like a child all these years. I'm not really sure why you think it's fair for you to complain that she hasn't grown up.

I see this with traditional men all the time: they don't allow decision making on their wives part, the wives grow dependent on them and the men get annoyed,surprised or bored.

As far as I can see, you've made your bed. I can't see ever treating a person as if you were a guardian could turn out to be a good thing.

July 24, 2016

OP I only read a few of these posts and I would bet a pound to a penny that your wife and this woman have more than just "friendship" going for them.

Please take all steps to protect yourself and your assets.

I'm sorry x

Protecting my assets is not a problem my wife has no idea how much money I have put away over the years.I worked all over Europe when I was younger and have always kept bank accounts open. My house has been owned by me from long before I met my wife so she has no claim on that. As to the lesbian sex suggestion I really don't think so. Ann is man mad and even her husband has told me there is no way she has lesbian tendencies,it is just money she craves.

I talked to him last night, he is a nice guy but she put him through hell. Some of the things she has done to him would frighten you. I posted earlier about how she sold his car when he was in hospital and he verified this. He said everything in there home had to be top of the range and he was constantly getting loans to keep her happy.

He told me that my wife is not the first person she has tried to get money from and he was surprised that she had paid back the original loan. I'm starting to think that my wife may have given her more money than she let on.

She has contacted me to say she has moved back into the apt but needs money for rent. She has spent all her wages this week, she gets paid on Wednesdays so she has spent over six hundred euro since then. She is adamant she does not want to divorce me but wants to know how much she will have if we do divorce. I told her she would have her wages the same as any other single woman and this seemed to upset her. She told me she heard that she was entitled to half my savings and half the value of the house. I asked her where she heard this and she said a friend told her, so I can guess who that was. I told her my house was not in her name and that she never contributed to the upkeep so she would get nothing. I asked her what solicitor she went to and she was shocked that I knew, I told her I only wanted to know so I would not use the same one. She said that the money they were trying to get from my account was supposed to be repaid each week and I might never have noticed. I asked her what was to stop Ann from emptying my account once she had the number and sort code and her reply was Ann is not like that!

I know I am coming across as hard and unfeeling but the thought that my wife of sixteen years would try to steal money from me really shook me. I still love my wife but sometimes she does things that a five year old would do.

Edited July 26, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edited for paragraphs ~ V

July 24, 2016

2,000 euros a month spending on stuff isn't that much money really if you have no kids and have a house, double income.

You've been married for 16 years, you have had full control over her and have treated her like a child all these years. I'm not really sure why you think it's fair for you to complain that she hasn't grown up.

I see this with traditional men all the time: they don't allow decision making on their wives part, the wives grow dependent on them and the men get annoyed,surprised or bored.

As far as I can see, you've made your bed. I can't see ever treating a person as if you were a guardian could turn out to be a good thing.

I agree with you to a certain extent.As long as my wife was happy she could do what she wanted with her own income and live in my house.Its when she wants to give my money to a parasite like her friend that I draw the line.I may not be getting my point across but it was either I look after finances or nobody would.I still love my wife and want her back but I will find it very hard to trust her with my money.

July 25, 2016

I really really really dont want to divorce you, but if i do, what will I get?

WTF?

Delusional. No, not her, you OP

July 25, 2016

I really really really dont want to divorce you, but if i do, what will I get?

WTF?

Delusional. No, not her, you OP

Why do you think that?

July 26, 2016

Because she is controlled by another. They came to your house with documents ready for the money transfer. Ballsy. BTW, If you divorce, Anne gets her money and your wife is the hero. Do you think pressure is not put on your wife to divorce you? She came back and said she needed more money, because she spent hers.

Your first name is bank and so is your last.

I do agree with what some of the women here have said. This is the bed you made. Maybe you should try something a little different. Figure out what is more than what you think is rightfully yours, and give her the out and see if she takes it. If she doesnt, maybe you should give her a second look. And while you are doing that, look in your own mirror. You do talk of her as if she is a possession and she treats you like a atm.

This is your life now, but not necessarily your future. Your crossroads, not hers.

July 26, 2016

I see this with traditional men all the time: they don't allow decision making on their wives part, the wives grow dependent on them and the men get annoyed,surprised or bored.

As far as I can see, you've made your bed. I can't see ever treating a person as if you were a guardian could turn out to be a good thing.

Nah, not the case. It's not up to him to teach her to be responsible. She either is or isn't. Some people just can't stand to see a dollar (or euro) lying in a bank account unspent. I know because I was marred to one.

In fact, I came home one day and found her there with a guy with papers to close on a home equity loan to pay off her credit cards. It was one of those open ended lines of credit where you can just keep on borrowing as long as you keep the interest paid up––like a credit card on steroids. Up to the value of the house.

This was after I had paid off her credit card balances twice before, both time with the agreement that she would cut up the cards and close the accounts. She didn't close the accounts and just ran them up again. She made a good salary, she just couldn't curtail the spending.

I refused to sign. She was livid, as was I. There's a lot more but I don't want to jack the thread.

I should've known because when we started dating she carried all of the money she had with her. She had no bank account. She got paid weekly and cashed the check in the store where she worked immediately. All she cared about was making it last 'til the next Friday.

I kept the saving out of reach just like OP because that's the only way there would be any savings. My mistake was marrying her to begin with... not a reluctance to give her access to the accounts.

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Friend in need. [wife wants to loan her friend a large sum of money]

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