My relationship with my father

[Rude boy]

My dad has two sides. His public side and the private side, and they're very different. My dad is a successful business man and owner of a company. He's liked by his employees and has tons of friends, and truth be told, I like working with him. We'll go out to lunch, play golf, close deals ect.

 

Then at home he's a woman beater. He beat my mom so bad she miscarried. It has always made me hate him deep down because of all the pain he's inflicted on my mother. They have been getting a divorce for a long time, but I know they're still sleeping together... which is very difficult for my brothers and I.

 

I feel bad about liking to work with him. I am angry he and my mom are still intimate.

 

Should I feel bad I work with him? Is it ok to like it, but still hate what he's done to our family?

[BettyDraper]

I'm so sorry that your father was abusive to your mother. That is a heavy burden to carry.

 

You are free to feel whatever you want.

 

It makes sense to have conflicting emotions towards a toxic parent.

[Rude boy]

It's incredibly hard to not feel guilty. Especially when we work together and close a deal because i feel a sense of administration for him, and I tell myself to snap out of it because I know he's a terrible man.

 

I find myself wanting to be like him in a corporate sense and fearful of becoming him when I'm evaluating my relationship with my child. I know them I'm not like him in that way because I love my daughter and he was never too into my siblings and I as kids, but it's always in the back of my mind.

[rick2016]

What would happen if you told him how you feel, or you afraid of him , telling you to get another job...

 

what your mother is doing is her business. nothing you can do about that, but is he still beating her, there is something you can do about that..its against the law...

[Rude boy]

If I told him how I feel I think he'd freak out. Whenever someone brings up his abusive behavior he gets really angry.

 

This is a job I was raised into, and the company I'll inherit one day, and so I can't really walk off... he's been great to work for, and that's what I don't understand.

[sc0316]

If your father is as abusive as you described, why would you want to work for his company and be financially controlled by him?

[sc0316]

Another question: Just read your other threads. So you and your brothers had been trying to get your mother to leave your abusive father for years. Has your father ever threatened to cut you guys off financially, since you're not on his side?

[Rude boy]

I work for him because it's a lot of money, and he's hasn't mistreated me since I started. We have a lot of fun. He's never threatened to cut me off, and I'm not sure he's threatened my brothers in that way either. That's an area he's never gone to.

[CarrieT]

I work for him because it's a lot of money, and he's hasn't mistreated me since I started. We have a lot of fun. He's never threatened to cut me off, and I'm not sure he's threatened my brothers in that way either. That's an area he's never gone to.

 

So you essentially are willing to forgive his actions towards your mother and understand how abusive he is, for MONEY?

 

Yeah, sorry, my respect for your actions just diminished. I only hope that at some point, when/if you inherit his money, you set up charities for abused women. Use his money for good to assuage the guilt involved with his actions. Please.

[Rude boy]

My dad came up to me, throwing an absolute tantrum. He asked if I knew my Hispanic mother was speaking in Spanish ("that language") to my two year old that she watches sometimes. I told him yes, I know and I encouraged her to. He rolled his eyes and shook his head, then walked away.

 

My mom is fluent in Spanish, but was never allowed to speak it in front of him. Evrn when it would've been beneficial to a situation. When I announced I wanted to take Spanish in school he freaked out. He demanded I take another language. I'll admit that ended up helping me later on, but it was out of the question. I know enough Spanish to get by too.

 

When he isn't around she'll watch novellas, sing in Spanish, listen to the music she loves and is so happy. The second his truck pulls in, it's off, and her stuff is hidden.

 

I asked how he knew before he left and he said he'd stopped by and heard it.

It's none of his damn business.

 

Then later he sent me a text congratulating me on a meeting I'd conducted that morning with the staff, and he never gets that good of feedback.

 

Now I feel indifferent. I mean how do you respond to that?

[Lorenza]

You want your mom to have the courage to leave him yet she sees her sons standing on the side of their abusive dad and kinda selling their souls for money and other benefits despite being deeply disturbed by the ongoing abuse...

You having a normal casual relationship with your dad validates his behavior.

[Rude boy]

You want your mom to have the courage to leave him yet she sees her sons standing on the side of their abusive dad and kinda selling their souls for money and other benefits despite being deeply disturbed by the ongoing abuse...

You having a normal casual relationship with your dad validates his behavior.

I don't really tell her to break it off anymore specifically because I work with him. My brothers do not. She told us not too long ago, that they are still sleeping together, and I was mad but kept quiet. Again, it's not my place.

 

Am I going to give up 90k fresh out of school with advancement? No, in my area, in this economy, that would destroy me.

 

She made her choice. She chose to name all of us after him, my name just has a a portion of his, but that's why she picked it. She chose to stay after she miscarried, to shut down divorce proceedings, to continue to let him in the house. She didn't have to.

[Downtown]

Then at home he's a woman beater. He beat my mom so bad she miscarried.

RudeBoy, the repeated physical battering of a partner or spouse is strongly associated with having strong traits of a personality disorder, particularly BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Intense, inappropriate anger is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. Indeed, the terms "anger" or "rage" appear in 3 of those nine traits.

 

It therefore is not surprising that the physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

My dad came up to me, throwing an absolute tantrum.

If your father is a BPDer (i.e., has strong and persistent BPD traits), he carries enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Hence, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

 

My dad has two sides. His public side and the private side, and they're very different.

If your father really is a BPDer, that is what you should expect. The vast majority of BPDers are high functioning. This means they usually display the anger only when you inadvertently trigger one of their two great fears: abandonment and engulfment. And this means they usually get along fine with casual friends, business associates, clients, and total strangers.

 

None of those people are able to trigger the BPDer's two fears unless they make the mistake of drawing close. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy to trigger the engulfment fear. This is why it is common for a BPDer to be caring and compassionate all day long at work -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love him.

 

If you would like to read more about BPD, an easy place to start is my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. I caution that, if you do conclude your father is exhibiting most BPD warning signs at a strong and persistent level, it would be unwise to tell him about your suspicions. He almost certainly would project them back onto you, in which case he would start thinking YOU are the BPDer. Take care, RudeBoy.

[Clep]

Not sure where you live but where I live all it takes is a phone call. The person doing the battering is arrested, charged, and a no contact order for a year is put in place automatically. You have the ability to stop this ASAP even if the route is not the same where I live.

 

It is appalling to me that a child old enough to work and pay bills would stand by watching their mother get beat and not only do nothing, but ignore it for a job with the abuser.

 

His abuse is something he has complete control over should he choose. That is obvious by how he behaves in front of others. If he really couldn't control his anger he wouldn't be able to do that regardless of demographics or who he was around at the time.

 

He is highly manipulative and your mom is aware of it but doesn't know how to stop it or fight it. She knows no one will believe her against this "amazing" guy he shows to the the rest of the world. She is fearful and intimidated for a reason. She is alone and she knows it. If she doesn't work that makes leaving even harder as she would be financially dependent and I gather that is the case here.

 

Make the call, do what is right and find another job.

[noelle303]

I think that by observing years and years of this horrific abuse has probably numbed you to it. That's why you can easily set it aside when it comes to your relationship with him.

 

First of all, I would strongly advise you to educate yourself on domestic abuse or talk to a counselor specializing in it. You need to realize that your mother did not CHOOSE this on her own.

 

Abusers are excellent manipulators. They isolate their victims, humiliate them and control them. These are all factors which often preceed actual physical violence.

 

After so many years of this, I imagine your mother feels worthless and alone. She sees everyone worshiping this man and truly thinks that it's her that is the problem. After all, we do live in a society which often values money and power over basic human decency.

 

Are you in counseling currently, OP?

[Rude boy]

I went over to her house to get my little girl and he was there. He said he'd stopped by because my mom said she had her. He lives in an apartment. I stayed for dinner and we talked he asked how my brothers were. Whenever he's not speaking to them he'll use their first names, my oldest brother is a junior and my older brother is a "son" so usually they just go by nicknames. She walked him out, and came back in crying because she misses him. She thinks he's a lot better now than he was. I sort of agree, he seems more at peace than he's ever been.

 

I think the older I get the more I identify with her. My child's mother can get violent, and I keep sticking around for the baby, but I love her. I understand someone hurting you and then you keep going back more now.

 

As for BPD, I've been looking into it, since it was mentioned. From what I've seen, don't people with it have low self esteem? He's never had that problem. What else should I look at? I'm completely ignorant on the disorder, it's not even something I've really heard about outside of movies I don't think

[Downtown]

As for BPD, I've been looking into it, since it was mentioned. From what I've seen, don't people with it have low self esteem? He's never had that problem.

Yes, BPDers typically have low self esteem when dealing with close interpersonal relationships -- but they can have very high self esteem in the context of their careers and nearly everything outside the home. Although a BPDer typically has the emotional development of a four year old, he has the intelligence, cunning, knowledge, and body strength of a full grown man. It therefore is common to see BPDers excelling in very demanding professions, e.g., being an outstanding professor, surgeon, psychiatrist, actor, politician, salesman, or social worker.

 

As I noted earlier, BPDers usually get along fine with casual friends, business associates, clients, and total strangers. None of those people are able to trigger the BPDer's two fears unless they make the mistake of drawing close. There is no close relationship that can be abandoned and no intimacy to trigger the engulfment fear. This is why it is common for a BPDer to be caring and compassionate all day long at work -- and then go home at night to abuse the very people who love him.

 

The result is that a BPDer's low self esteem -- about his limited ability to handle intimacy with loved ones and close friends -- usually is not apparent to anyone outside the family (and one or two very close friends, which he will eventually push away). If your dad is a BPDer, his low self esteem will be evident to those of you in the family in his refusal to accept responsibility for his own bad behavior and mistakes. Instead, he will blame everything on others in the family and, while he is at home, will continue to think of himself as "The Victim," always "The Victim."

 

What else should I look at? I'm completely ignorant on the disorder.

Again, I suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs and my more detailed description of them in Rebel's Thread. If most of those 18 red flags seem to apply strongly to your Dad, I would be glad to discuss them with you. If you would like to discuss them, it would be very helpful if you would tell us which of the 18 signs apply strongly and which don't apply at all.

[Rude boy]

Ok, well going through the list:

 

Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor comment or infraction; applies

2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;" applies

3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members; applies

4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude (e.g., not appreciating all the 3-hour trips you made to see her for two years) and a double standard ; applied

5. Flipping, on a dime, between adoring you and devaluing you -- making you feel like you're always walking on eggshells; probably applies to my mom. He's never done it to me

 

6. Frequently creating drama over issues so minor that neither of you can recall what the fight was about two days later; applies

7. Low self esteem; doesn't apply

8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums or cold sulking that typically start in seconds and last several hours; applies

9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans; doesn't apply, or not that I've ever seen. He frequently left on business, but she wasn't allowed to leave without him.

10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune; maybe. yes and no, mostly no.

 

11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending); YES. He frequently uses coke. Loves to spend, speed.

12. Complaining that all her previous BFs were abusive and claiming (during your courtship) that you are the only one who has treated her well; doesn't apply.

13. Mirroring your personality and preferences so perfectly during the courtship period (e.g., enjoying everything and everyone you like) that you were convinced you had met your "soul mate;" doesn't apply, at least not to me.

14. Relying on you to center and ground her, giving her a sense of direction because her goals otherwise keep changing every few months; doesn't apply.

15. Relying on you to sooth her and calm her down, when she is stressed, because she has so little ability to do self soothing; probably applies to his relationship with my mom, not something with me though

 

 

16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away); doesn't apply.

17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; not sure, probably. He's the nicest guy in the world when you're doing business with him.

and

18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence. Yep.

[Downtown]

RudeBoy, some of those 18 traits are more important than others. If your Dad has no strong fear of abandonment, for example, he almost certainly is NOT a BPDer. I rather suspect you are mistaken about that, however, because you do state that he exhibits irrational jealousy and a need to control your Mother to isolate her away from others. Such strong jealousy arises from the abandonment fear.

 

As I said earlier, I also suspect you are mistaken about his not having low self esteem. When a person always has to be "right" about everything and refuses to take responsibility for his own actions, it usually is because he has such low self esteem that it is very painful for him to have a normal level of self awareness. When self esteem is low, his subconscious will work 24/7 protecting his fragile ego from seeing too much of reality.

 

The subconscious accomplishes this by projecting all hurtful feelings and bad thoughts onto the partner. Because that projection occurs entirely at the subconscious level, he will be consciously convinced that those bad feelings and thoughts are coming from the partner (i.e., from your Mother). Moreover, if your Dad really does have high self esteem, why is he so uncomfortable and embarrassed when his wife enjoys a language (Spanish) that he cannot speak?

 

Finally, I also suggest you reconsider whether your dad thinks of himself as "The Victim" when he is around your mother. Is he not blaming her for all his unhappiness -- instead of taking ownership of his own feelings -- when he is throwing temper tantrums around her?

[turnera]

I work for him because it's a lot of money, and he's hasn't mistreated me since I started. We have a lot of fun. He's never threatened to cut me off, and I'm not sure he's threatened my brothers in that way either. That's an area he's never gone to.

You need SERIOUS therapy to learn to deal with the dual personality you are creating by accepting 'stuff' from a man who turns your stomach. My guess is that, 20 years from now, if you don't deal with this in therapy, you will duplicate him because you will have 'accepted' his side and you'll hate yourself for not getting your mom away from him and taking a stand. Men who hate themselves abuse.

[Rude boy]

I'm in therapy. As I've said before, thank you for getting me to go.

 

I've always seen him be confident and sure about everything. Maybe I just get the impression she's so under his thumb I never gave that thought.

 

I've asked him why he doesn't learn the language. He's a smart dude, he speaks German and French conversationally, to the point I think he's almost fluent in German. His response was that it's a stupid language. I've suggested it's something they can do together and he scoffs at the idea. I've never understood how someone who interacts with the international business community could hold that view. He knows if he spoke it personally he'd have a lot more money, and he absolutely refuses.

[sc0316]

You need SERIOUS therapy to learn to deal with the dual personality you are creating by accepting 'stuff' from a man who turns your stomach. My guess is that, 20 years from now, if you don't deal with this in therapy, you will duplicate him because you will have 'accepted' his side and you'll hate yourself for not getting your mom away from him and taking a stand. Men who hate themselves abuse.

 

Excellent post! I was the first to ask why he would work for and be financially controlled by his mother's long-term abuser. It's not like he couldn't get a job elsewhere — from what he has written, he has a college plus a master's degree. His expression of disappointment for his mother not to leave her long-term abuser, coupled with his continued dependence on this very abuser makes him sound like a hypocrite.