1 Year relationship - can't say she loves me! [update: We have split up]

[LastStraw]

Great development! See - my prediction is getting real

 

 

Don't worry about attracting her - this was not the issue in your relationship, I bet money she's still attracted but hesitant because of your 'issues'. Make sure to tell her how these are getting resolved - the new job the divorce progression... But don't over-explain, besides giving her the relevant info, just keep it fun!

 

 

Update time:

 

I did call her this evening. It went really well. The call lasted 25 minutes and I ended it this time because I had to go.

 

As ever we chatted well. I focused on trying to make her laugh, which I did on multiple occasions. There was no relationship talk. She likes to talk about her work a lot which is a bit of a bummer, not because I'm not interested, I am, but simply because it doesn't allow the chance to provoke the feelings I wanted from her. Anyway, I moved the topic onto Christmas, which gave me the chance to drop in some fun innuendo, which she chuckled away at.

 

I ended the call by asking her when she was free for a catch up. There was some momentary hesitation but we have agreed to go out after my court hearing and her major work thing is done, both on the same day, in about 2 weeks from now.

 

We will speak again before then. In that time I will blast the gym to continue improving my physique. I do look a lot different to when she last saw me, even though it was only 2 weeks ago, as I've lost around 9-10lbs. I think I could lose that again in another 2 weeks. The main reason being I've changed my diet and I'm hitting the gym often.

 

I also focused on what the guide I'd read earlier in the evening said. That was to be emotionally stronger than her. When she said she couldn't make a certain day due to work I said no worries, it doesn't matter, I'm busy too, just give me a shout when you're free.

 

So anyway, we're going to go out and hopefully celebrate our joint good news.

 

She was interested in what I had to say, particularly news regarding the person who assaulted me a few months ago. We talked about things like we'd never been apart.

 

I know there is something more there than friendship - I just need to get it out of her somehow. I will continue reading more about how to do that in the coming days when I get the chance. I believe I need to be more masculine. I'm a really calm, laid back person, and whilst that's OK I do realise in myself that I've missed opportunities in the past through being too laid back. My ex has seen this too. So that's something I've going to change for the better for myself but will also appeal to her hopefully.

 

Who knows what will happen next. I did notice that she had been 'online' after we spoke.

 

So my emphasis is on doing everything I can to 'turn her on' when we go out in 2 weeks.

 

If anyone has been lucky enough to get their ex to meet up and go out with them after a break up, I'd appreciate some tips on how you approached things if they turned out well.

 

I will be more confident, more assertive, with no clingyness or neediness.

 

I've also been out this evening with some new people. I chatted to a woman most of the evening. There was nothing in it, just happening to be at the same table with the other people. It was nice however to focus on someone else for a short time.

 

Right, time for bed now. I may actually sleep properly for the first time in weeks tonight.

[Apricotjelly90]

The reason I ask is the same guy I mentioned before who has a site online that gives advice says that the no contact rule is OK is there's a deep love or you've had a big bust up or whatever, but if you parted of good terms then there's no reason why after a few days you can't ring up and try and attract them back. Apparently the idea for this is to increase respect, attraction and love, and this site gives some tips on doing that.

 

Can you provide a link to the site?

 

Personally I think NC only works to heal yourself, but if what you want is to get your ex back, the chances of her waking up one morning and realizing how much she needs you are very unlikely.

 

That being said, I think contact should be limited so she has room to miss you and chase you, I tried gradually going back to our daily contact like a site suggested and ended up on the friendzone so now I have to pull back for a bit.

[alpha99]

Thanks for the messages.

 

I don't want to get carried away with myself here. I recorded the call so that I could play it back and analyse her reactions later on when we weren't in the call.

 

Now, as I said earlier, after we spoke I noticed she had been on the dating site we met on. My work is not yet done, but getting her to go out with me is a big step. If I can project a new me, more confident, self assured, make her laugh, better body language, flirt with her, I'm sure I can turn her on.

 

She initially said about going out 'I don't think so, not until after I'd done all my work stuff', as she said she had no days left. Now, this did sound like an excuse because there's always time to do stuff, but anyway, the conversation carried on, and listening back she does sound reluctant, but hey, we've just split up so I doubt she'd be thrilled at the idea of meeting up again right now as it was her idea to split.

 

Anyway, she talked about how I need to focus on my issues going on with court and stuff, and then I moved things back to about going out, saying, as I'd talked about her dressing up as an elf earlier in the conversation, that she could come out as an elf. She replied, yes, with my baubles on display!

 

I thought that was quite telling. I'd made that joke earlier and she referred back to it in a fun way, reciprocating the innuendo. If nothing else, it seems to show she's comfortable being fun and sexy around me.

 

I then said I'd be Santa and bring my sleigh...and that she could ride my sleigh. She chuckled away and then did a semi dismissive OK.

 

I then ended the call by saying I had to go and that I'd call her again to arrange firm details over where we went and what we did.

 

Listening back, again, she's not ecstatic, but then why should she be? She saw fit to finish our relationship two weeks ago and so she's not going to be jumping for joy at the idea of meeting up again.

 

So why wait two weeks? She is undoubtedly busy and does have a big project that requires almost all her time. I know that to be true. Still, it's possible she may have a date or two lined up and she's playing things by ear.

 

Now, one thing I've read is not to see other men as competition. Be the alpha male, be sure that you're the best one for her, not in an arrogant, cocky way, but don't ask her about it and be needy and insecure. Sure, if we got back together somewhere down the line I'd ask her what she did in this gap period, but that's for another time. Now is the time to be strong, be positive, be assertive, be emotionally courageous. So I plan to say I miss her and love her, but not in a needy way, more in a matter of fact way that yeah, we're not together, but hey I still love you. The plan is that by being emotionally strong it will earn her respect.

[Apricotjelly90]

Can you provide a link to the site?

 

Personally I think NC only works to heal yourself, but if what you want is to get your ex back, the chances of her waking up one morning and realizing how much she needs you are very unlikely.

 

That being said, I think contact should be limited so she has room to miss you and chase you, I tried gradually going back to our daily contact like a site suggested and ended up on the friendzone so now I have to pull back for a bit.

 

I forgot to mention, I did meet my ex after a period of 30 day NC (although my circumstances are a bit different, read my thread for all the details) and it went really well, just funny laid back as it had always been, but I did make some mistakes, I focused on the friendly drama free side and forgot to build up attraction by physical contact, eye contact, flirting etc.

[alpha99]

Can you provide a link to the site?

 

Personally I think NC only works to heal yourself, but if what you want is to get your ex back, the chances of her waking up one morning and realizing how much she needs you are very unlikely.

 

That being said, I think contact should be limited so she has room to miss you and chase you, I tried gradually going back to our daily contact like a site suggested and ended up on the friendzone so now I have to pull back for a bit.

 

 

I hope I'm allowed to name drop here. Apologies if not, and mods, feel free to remove this if it's not allowed. I have been looking at the modern man website. I have no link to it whatsoever, just stumbled across it whilst browsing endless sites promoting no contact. This guy reckons you should be trying to actively reattract your ex using some of the means I have posted about in recent messages. I went from being needy, insecure and pleading to being quite confident on the phone. I still have room for improvement of course but a phone call or two ago I asked her repeatedly to let me take her out last weekend. She flat out said no again and again. I was being desperate. I saw it in myself. That call had gone well to the point where I started asking and asking and got needier and desperate by the minute...the call lasted five hours.

 

This last call, she joked about the last time, I laughed it off too but did apologise. I kept my cool, didn't get needy. When asked her the initial response was when? I asked in a cool, breezy, matter of fact way by saying, hey, anyway, how are you fixed for a meet up sometime?

 

See, I didn't ask her, please will you let me take you out etc.

 

She replied saying when?

 

I suggested a few days from now. She said she didn't think so, she's busy with work, and once her project is done as she has no time. I didn't get needy and pleading or asking why not, you must have time etc, I just said OK, that's fine, no problem, I know you're busy, I'm busy too, give me a shout when you're free.

 

We then established that my court date and her project end on the same day, and it was her after that who said 'we'll go out after that and either celebrate or commiserate.

 

As I wrote before, I introduced the elf chat and she reciprocated the innuendo. Now, at this point she's definitely not enthused by the prospect, but that's OK. I just need a chance to get her out and then she'll see all the positive changes I've made. It may not work, there's probably a good chance it won't, but I'm glad I didn't just ignore her and let her move on without a good fight. I want to be with her in a new relationship different to the old one. I have to change myself for that to happen. I've been doing that. Not one to brag but I'm looking like I did when we first met. After meeting and getting comfortable with each other, I stopped going to the gym and put on 30lbs or so. I've now lost about 10lbs in two weeks. I have changed my diet, I exercise every day, I've stopped drinking tea and eating bread, I drink lots of water, and I feel good. I'd be gutted if we don't work it out and get back together but if it does end for good and there's no coming back at some point, at least I'd know that I am a good person, bettering myself, and that I could make someone else happy. Not what I want, but knowing that is a good thing regardless.

[alpha99]

I hope I'm allowed to name drop here. Apologies if not, and mods, feel free to remove this if it's not allowed. I have been looking at the modern man website. I have no link to it whatsoever, just stumbled across it whilst browsing endless sites promoting no contact. This guy reckons you should be trying to actively reattract your ex using some of the means I have posted about in recent messages. I went from being needy, insecure and pleading to being quite confident on the phone. I still have room for improvement of course but a phone call or two ago I asked her repeatedly to let me take her out last weekend. She flat out said no again and again. I was being desperate. I saw it in myself. That call had gone well to the point where I started asking and asking and got needier and desperate by the minute...the call lasted five hours.

 

This last call, she joked about the last time, I laughed it off too but did apologise. I kept my cool, didn't get needy. When asked her the initial response was when? I asked in a cool, breezy, matter of fact way by saying, hey, anyway, how are you fixed for a meet up sometime?

 

See, I didn't ask her, please will you let me take you out etc.

 

She replied saying when?

 

I suggested a few days from now. She said she didn't think so, she's busy with work, and once her project is done as she has no time. I didn't get needy and pleading or asking why not, you must have time etc, I just said OK, that's fine, no problem, I know you're busy, I'm busy too, give me a shout when you're free.

 

We then established that my court date and her project end on the same day, and it was her after that who said 'we'll go out after that and either celebrate or commiserate.

 

As I wrote before, I introduced the elf chat and she reciprocated the innuendo. Now, at this point she's definitely not enthused by the prospect, but that's OK. I just need a chance to get her out and then she'll see all the positive changes I've made. It may not work, there's probably a good chance it won't, but I'm glad I didn't just ignore her and let her move on without a good fight. I want to be with her in a new relationship different to the old one. I have to change myself for that to happen. I've been doing that. Not one to brag but I'm looking like I did when we first met. After meeting and getting comfortable with each other, I stopped going to the gym and put on 30lbs or so. I've now lost about 10lbs in two weeks with some weight loss before that, meaning I'm now only about 10lbs from the weight I was when we met. I plan to lose that in two weeks by continuing what I've been doing.

 

I have changed my diet, I exercise every day, I've stopped drinking tea and eating bread, I drink lots of water, and I feel good. I'd be gutted if we don't work it out and get back together but if it does end for good and there's no coming back at some point, at least I'd know that I am a good person, bettering myself, and that I could make someone else happy. Not what I want, but knowing that is a good thing regardless.

 

That's about it for now I think

[alpha99]

Right, just a mental note. This is going to take a long time and a lot of patience. One fantastic phone call doesn't make everything right. I just need to make sure I don't start chasing her in any way. I am writing this here as a sort of journal so I can read back and see it in the days to come.

 

I need to focus my communication on building attraction.

 

Since she's been on a dating site quite a bit it seems, it makes sense she may have dates lined up. Still, we have planned to go out, and if she didn't want anything to do with me that wouldn't happen. Listening back again, maybe she still has the negative perception of me as being weak and needy. So we do need to meet up so she can see the change in me.

 

That initial intense pain has subsided and I know I could get on with my life if I had to - I just don't want to yet. I don't think we're done yet!

[dumbass2]

"Two years' separation will be up in January and I plan to instigate divorce proceedings then. It should be straight forward and over in 12 weeks from then."

 

This appears to be the issue. everything else you are focusing on and trying to improve and trying to renew that spark won't mean crap if the issue above and the child care isn't taken care of in a way that works for her too. You're wasting your time on all the other "changes" you are making if you are making them just to try and impress her which sounds like the case. Those weren't the big issues. Stay focused on the big ones and when those get fixed, then you should look at trying to see if she wants to try again. Why would she at this point if those changes haven't been fixed for good?

"I don't know why she was on the dating site. Her profile has never gone away, it's just that she has logged in recently. Why do that if you're in a happy relationship."

 

She's not in a happy relationship and hasn't been for a while, hence her active profile. You're in the denial and bargaining stage of the beak up right now.

 

I sense you are going to go through whatever you want and I wish you the best, but I think you are losing focus on the main reason for her breaking up with you and never truly being all in to the relationship and that is the fact you are still married and don't have the child care situation fixed. Those are huge issues for anyone on the other end of the relationship.

[alpha99]

Thanks Dumbass2,

 

That has brought some things really into focus. If I think back to earlier in our relationship, she did ask occasionally when am I going to get divorced? She even made a joke that I'm going to be married forever. Her mother even right up until two weeks before we split used to jokingly ask 'how is your wife?' Now, I know I have let her down her. To begin with I did say that I would do it asap, but then my ex wife to be started being horrible and it was clear that a divorce then would be a long protracted naming and blaming exercise. Two years' separation means no blame is attached. Unfortunately that meant pushing things back. Thinking about it, my ex wife to be has always said it was December when we split even though it was January. I will see if I can get the solicitor to get the divorce under way the first week of December, in two weeks' time, rather than waiting longer. If nothing else I want to be divorced anyway of course.

 

Hmm I have a few theories on why she wouldn't want to meet until after the court date. Sure, she's said she's busy with a work project, but surely everyone has a spare hour or two somewhere in the week no matter how busy they are. So why agree to meet but not until after her work project is finished, which she knows to be the same date as my childcare court hearing?

 

Well, first off maybe she needs some more space. Her being on a dating site quite a bit means she probably has dates lined up and may want to see how they go. Secondly, another thought of course is that she wants to know the outcome of the childcare hearing to see if it is something that would be acceptable to her should we get back together. She did say a few weeks back when we were out that she'd have to 'look at things again' if I ended up with my children only every weekend because there would never be any time for us and that she 'didn't sign up for this'. Maybe I'm clutching at straws but maybe also if it turned out I got what I wanted, a rolling day basis of childcare which would mean I'd have free weekends 50% of the time she'd think more about getting back together.

 

As for the dating site, she told me she had only ever been on in our relationship to delete the account but didn't figure out how. When I asked about her going on before just before we split, she said she had once a few weeks prior because she had reactivated some old email account which flooded her with messages, and so she went on to have a look. Not good, I know, because if she was happy she'd never look again, but I do believe that was her reason she was on there. Since we've split, I know I shouldn't, but I've had a look and seen that her profile says she's been active, so she is on there. She was clear when splitting that if she couldn't have what she wanted with me, because of her age she'd have to look for someone else before it was too late to have children etc.

 

When splitting she said it was the hardest thing she's ever had to do, that she loves being with me but thinks she doesn't love me, hasn't felt a spark or butterflies, wants someone stronger, has felt like she's had to help me to do things with my house etc, we wouldn't be able to get married in a church due to me previously being married, we're different people on a different page when it comes to work and children.

 

Now, we chatted on the phone afterwards and cleared up some of those things to the point she accepted they weren't big issues. Work for example, I now have a good job with good money working full time. I am more ambitious in achieving a better career. Parenting, she accepts that an issue she once had with me over parenting was over a year ago and it hasn't occurred since so she was over that. As for being stronger, I have tried to show on the phone that the little things aren't bothering me. Assault stuff, childcare etc, instead of displaying open worry I have been much more resilient and strong in talking about these things. That leaves the 'love' issue.

 

I will post my plan to resolve that in the next message!

[alpha99]

So what I need to do is to be able to meet up with her and casually let it be known that things are sorting themselves out. The day after the court hearing it will be December, so I can go to the solicitors that day and get the ball rolling divorce wise. Therefore if we meet any time after that I can explain the result of the chlidcare hearing and say that the divorce is under way.

 

The next element to think about is how to act when meeting up with her. I guess I should keep it casual, no heavy relationship talk, certainly no talk of the past, but at the same time keep it fun, flirty, make physical contact my touching her knee or hands etc, let her talk more about what she wants to say, and generally try to have a great time whilst building up some sort of spark or attraction. I've read to do that she will need to respect me again. She can do that through hearing about my job, seeing my more emotionally stronger self etc. Getting her to laugh should be a big one. I am pretty good at doing that and it will help to let her drop her defenses down. She should also feel some desire. So I have to not be needy, insecure, or chase her in any way. Yes, I want her back but showing that would be a turn off. So I need to be matter of fact, casual, should any talk of missing each other or 'feelings' comes up.

 

I will of course be looking great after heading to the gym so much as well as getting some new clothes etc.

 

Does anyone else have any suggestions on how such a meet up should go?

[alpha99]

Right, another message (I know). I am using this as some sort of journal to get my thoughts and feelings down. I feel it's helping.

 

Last night I thought I had jumped the gun a little bit. I texted my ex with something I thought she'd find amusing but she didn't reply. She has an issue with spiders in her house, and I saw a big one at work, so I took a picture and sent it to her saying I hope she didn't send it my way. The idea was to build up some rapport again, nothing too heavy, just a little 'in joke' type thing. She had been on WhatsApp but didn't look at the message. Well, she has just replied a few moments.

 

So I sent the picture saying something like 'my horrifying experience, hope you didn't send it my way'

 

She has just replied saying 'ah that's only little.....'

 

It's easy to over analyse but I wonder if that's a continuation of the innuendo. Saying it's only little is one thing but adding the dots at the end seems to imply a double meaning. I don't know, maybe she's just saying it's a small spider. Anyway, a response is good. I plant to leave it a while and then reply back furthering the conversation. She's a big HP fan and so I will work in something about fantastic beasts and knowing where to find them. Hopefully that makes her laugh about something she likes.

 

As I say, a response is surely always good. I hope that I am slowly building rapport with her again. By being fun and not mentioning us, hopefully I can slowly build up just a general connection before we meet up within the next 2 weeks and then ramp things up. I will spread the calls and texts so as not to appear like I'm hanging on the end of the phone waiting for her responses.

 

***edit*** bonus time!!!!

 

A girl from my new job sent me friend request on FB. I haven't seen her yet because she's been off sick but it's just come up we're now friends on FB...as I can see that my ex is online! That's going to get her thinking!

 

 

Anyway, on with the day! Any thoughts on any of these messages, do let me know!

Edited November 19, 2016 by alpha99

[NopeNah]

Man, You're over thinking this...BIG TIME! You should just be focusing on your court issues. If she calls/texts you, then decide if its something worth responding to. I can feel your desperation/neediness through your writing so, I can only assume how you're coming across to her on calls. Especially a 4+hr conversation!? Take a breath,relax and let her come to you, if she chooses but,don't wait for her or expect her to.

[TooRational]

Agreed with P4D here. I thought I was over-analyzing stuff but I think I met my match! You gotta chill a little bit man and just take things as they come. This is not chess, you don't have to plan every single move ahead. This is awfully stressful to think about all the possible scenarios, both good and bad.

 

You have to realize that you can't control everything, you can't control whether or not she'll come back to you. It's not like there is this one perfect path of actions that will bring her back for sure. Right now you seem to think so and are over-analyzing what each exact step needs to be.

 

You've mentioned often that she wants someone stronger. Well one way to be strong, not needy and demonstrating lots of self-confidence is to let go of the outcome. Meaning do not attach too much importance on whether or not she'll fall back for you. Your mindset should be to be the best man you can be, and then, if she doesn't fall for you then it's her loss, not yours.

 

I found the book "Models" by Mark Manson to be helpful in teaching how to be strong and not needy with women.

[alpha99]

Thanks for the responses. Thanks also for the book recommendation.

 

I am writing down all my thoughts here. Yes, I know I'm overanalysing things. I need to give things a bit of time. I doubt she's going to come back to me just a few weeks after we've split up. I am doing an awful lot of things to change, some are superficial such as clothes and going to the gym for a better physique, but some are more subtle such as attempting to be more confident and an 'alpha male'.

 

We've gone from us splitting up, me going through the begging phase, through to being able to chat comfortably on the phone, and that leading to her agreeing to a meet up shortly.

 

The last time on the phone I was as cool as a cucumber. I was more forward, but in a fun way, dropping in jokes and making her laugh repeatedly, using innuendo, as well as some general chit chat. I could sense she felt entirely comfortable speaking to me. It was only when I mentioned meeting up did that change, but ultimately she agreed to go out, and when I said she could come dressed as an elf, she replied "Yeah, with my baubles on display".

 

So the problem here I think is re-attracting her. She's over 35 and only ever been with a handful of people. I am one of those people. So clearly I had enough about me the first time around to attract her into being a relationship with me. I know the problem now. I have been a bit soft, a bit feminine, too eager to please, and pausing my life to fit in with hers. I've also leaned on her for support. I am changing that.

 

Looking at a ton of stuff online, a lot of it crap I know, but what I've taken from it is that I have to be more confident, fun flirty, keep things light. This might sound like I'm being desperate here but the intention is to just jot down my thoughts so I can come back and read them here. I do not act like this on the phone or in any interaction with her.

 

I'm sure you're right. I'm sure I'm over-analysing everything she says and every interaction we've had. I know she may never come back. At the same time I am working on myself, new job, new start, new people, new diet, new clothes, new ways of being confident etc.

 

I am finding things hard, but things are getting easier as time passes on. I've said before, that intense agony and pain of the first days has subsided to something that is now just a lingering sadness of missing her. I've been married before and that didn't work out, and then I met my ex. I know in time I could do the same and be happy again. My happiness isn't dependent on this one person. At the same time, she did make me feel happy. It seems clear now that I became dependent on her for that happy, maybe after being so crushed when my marriage ended that the fact she was willing to go out with me meant I invested too much into things. Anyway, long story short, I am changing that mindset.

 

You have all given good advice on what to do throughout different times recently. I know I haven't always followed it. I know there's no magic bullet to make things right again. I am aware of that. I do need to chill a bit. I need to take a step back and stop looking at her social media and whether she's been on the dating site and what that may or may not mean. I am going to do that from now on.

 

I will continue to contact her though, mainly through phone calls. Texts are easy to ignore or send a simple reply, open to interpretation, and don't allow each other to hear one another's voices etc. Phone calls are more direct, you can hear their tone, get a sense of what they're thinking.

 

I do believe that no contact in our case would not be beneficial. The consensus seems to be NC works best to either heal yourself, but in terms of getting an ex back mainly works when there has been a deep love and they miss you intently, become curious and contact you etc. I don't think that's been the case here, so I'm preferring to go with the idea of actively trying to re-attract her.

 

The info I'm following says only to text to arrange a call, and in the call try to bring about respect, attraction etc. To do this be more confident, assertive, make her laugh etc. I have been working on those things in the last phone call.

 

I think I'm going to phone her tomorrow after work knowing that she's off and will be at home working. I will ask her about the Christmas shopping and be a bit cheeky, asking if she got me anything good. The idea there is to be emotionally courageous. Most people wouldn't dare ask about presents from someone they've just split up with. Being confident enough to ask might earn some respect from her because I won't be the wimpy guy who just skirts around the elephant in the room. It will probably make her laugh too!

 

Anyway, today I'm going to go to the gym, do some more reading about all this stuff, work on my house, and get things ready for work tomorrow. Yesterday I took my kids out and we had lots of fun. So all in all things in my life are good. I would just like this element of a relationship with the woman I love to improve too!

[alpha99]

This is just a quick message to say that we have spoken again this evening. Once again it went well. We chatted for about 30 minutes. I inquired in a casual way about some details over if we go out. We agreed that we'd go out for a meal and drinks. She said she's free any time after the 30th. So that's a good thing. I did try to drop in jokes and a bit of innuendo. I feel more confident now. I've been to the gym twice today. I'm looking good. Even if we don't get back together I know life goes on. I know feelings fluctuate but right now I feel pretty good. I know she's been online on the dating site but really I'm not so fussed. Sure, knowing she'd met someone else would hurt but I am planning on winning her back, so let's just see what happens first.

 

***EDIT*** Just to quickly add about confidence, I was flirting quite a bit and feel comfortable doing it. I also felt in control of emotions and I could feel a lot more confidence coming out of me. What I've been reading is that it's possible an ex will test you to see if you cave in and become emotionally weak again. Well, I got the sense she maybe tried that this evening but I just rolled with it. I'm feeling OK right now.******

 

Anyway, I'll keep this short for now as I want time to think about the call and then I'll report back with some more reflections and let you all see what you think.

[alpha99]

OK, it's been a few days: here's the update.

 

We chatted last Monday on the phone as I already wrote. This was for about 30 minutes.

 

I won't go into a blow by blow account here but just as last time I used a mixture of general chit chat, laughing, joking, innuendo etc to keep the conversation flowing. I wrote down a list of things to talk about beforehand so that if it seemed like we were drying up on something to say, I could switch topics quickly. This time I teased her a bit too. At one point I said it's a good job you're at the end of the phone. She asked why. I said because otherwise I'd give you a bloody good spanking haha. She took it as it was intended, a light hearted joke. Anyway, another thing came up about cable ties. It's a personal joke but I said at one point that I'll let you go now from the phone call, it's not like I'm holding you hostage, to which she replied "yeah, with the cable ties". Now, based on the conversation that's clearly a case of her providing clear sexual imagery of the two of us. So, long story short, it went really well and I think the mixture of the chatting, being more confident and using flirting and innuendo despite our break up is the way to go.

 

Oh I'm just adding this as an afterthought. One thing I did read is that if something is going well the woman will maybe try and test you. I think this happened once or twice during the call. She said things about Christmas and that she wouldn't be at home and wouldn't have a tree up (because she'd stay at her folks). I got the feeling she wanted me to say if we were together we could have Christmas together. But I didn't want to be needy or desperate in any way so I just dodged that. Another one was when talking about the kids and if I had them every weekend. She said, oh well, at least you've get to spend quality time with them. She knows what I'm requesting in terms of childcare and so I think this was a test again to see if I'd say, oh but I would want to be free at the weekends to spend some time with you. Again, I just stated what I believe to be best for the kids and left it at that.

 

So here's the problem. Getting a little carried away with how well it had been going, I thought I'd call her up again on Wednesday. Bad move I know. Wish I hadn't. She didn't answer. Bit of a mistake on my part. I had seen she was online on the dating site and in a bit of a panic moment thought I'd call her up. I guess she didn't want to be disturbed at that point or maybe would have felt conflicted if on there chatting with someone and then having to speak with me at the same time. She's been on there daily, which in a way is good thing. When we first met on there, we chatted online up to the night before our first date, then I got her number so I could contact her if needing to when meeting up. So I guess if she's on there every day or whatever then it's because she's yet to meet someone new and move on. Just a thought anyway.

 

So, as for myself, I've been working hard in the new job, which is getting better each day. The people are friendly and I'm getting to be more confident around then. I've also been hitting the gym hard and I'm starting to get some definition of my abs. When I've finished writing this I'm going to go the gym and have a work out.

 

I am still feeling generally low but I'm working on it. I did purchase the course from the website I've mentioned once or twice. It goes through some exercises to make you feel better, and I guess I'm slowly starting to improve in terms of sleep. I do feel better about myself than I did a week or two ago. I know I look good. I have to work on my self confidence though. I know I need to be a more domineering person, not in any sort of aggressive way, but I'm too laid back both when speaking to my ex, bar the recent calls, and in terms of career etc. What it boils down to is I'm working on myself. Now, if the end result is my ex sees a new and improved me, then that's great. If on the other hand, we don't get back together, I'm sure I'll feel better about things anyway.

 

I've rejoined the dating website and sent out a few feelers to some people. The thought of knowing there are other people out there in the world is a liberating one. I'd go on a few dates if they came up to see how things go. It wouldn't stop me at some point in the future getting back with my ex if that transpired, but it would give me a new perspective on things.

 

So what I am planning to do next? After going through the course I got, I realise that I need to improve on myself before I contact my ex. So what I'm going to do is try and go on a few dates, get out more, meet new people, gain some perspective on things, continue in the new job but look for more career opportunities. I'm going to continue improving my fitness as well as working on my confidence and self esteem. I am going to become more assertive and masculine. All this sounds like it might take a while but most of it is a shift in thinking and I believe can be done relatively quickly once you get underway. So I'm going to get on with that now. See you later.

[TooRational]

Dude, stop stalking her on the dating website. Nothing good can come out of that (as you found out with your phone call). She's free to do as she please and there's no point torturing yourself over this.

[alpha99]

Hi TooRational,

 

I know it's a bad thing to do and I must stop it. I'm making good progress on many fronts but this is slowing me down in trying to move on.

 

In other news, I've just gotten off the phone with her. It went on a bit longer than expected, an hour and a quarter. It wasn't a great call to be honest. She is getting stressed due to her big work project being due on Wednesday. Still, it was nice to chat and we did manage to talk in a mature way about some of the issues in our relationship. At this point she is not ready to rekindle things, which of course was completely expected.

 

We have arranged to speak on Thursday with the idea of meeting up Friday for a catch up meal and drinks. She did make it clear that it was only as friends catching up. I of course agreed to that.

 

She is very astute in how to see things and so was already on the ball that of course I would like to rekindle things. I did slightly slip into asking her if things would ever change, an impossible question considering that I'm asking her whether essentially she'll differently in the future to how she's feeling now. This was my mistake.

 

She was certain that the problem with our relationship was with her. She said that she wasn't sure if what we had is what she wanted basically. I pointed out that I thought that my background issues that I pointed out on here also played a part. She said it's nothing to do with me and it was all her. She said she feels at the moment like we could never be together again.

 

After going through the programme I bought, I managed to hold things together in a mature way without descending into the crying, pleading nonsense I had done before. Hopefully in a cool, matter of fact way, I did say that I loved her still, I missed her, and that I know Friday would be meeting up as friends but that at some point in the future I would like things to be rekindled. I was just putting it out there. I did make the mistake of doing this a couple of times in the call. Once would have been enough I think.

 

She had noticed a change in me, which she said was strange. I see this as being the effect of me behaving in a more masculine way, flirting etc.

 

One thing to come from this is that she said she's spent the last month working tirelessly on her project and hasn't seen anyone, she didn't mean dating, she meant just not seeing anyone full stop, working at home and just ploughing on with her work.

 

One thing I suggested, that she seemed open to, although not this evening, was the idea of hanging out on a more regular basis. I said we'd gone from being lovers and friends to not seeing each other for a month, and that if we hung out on a regular basis then we would get the chance to see if things could change over time. I asked if she was free tonight but she had too much on. She pointed out the pitfalls of this, which I'm all too aware of, but I feel that this could be the next option to pursue.

 

I know most people reading this will say being friends is no good because you get friend-zoned, but other things I've read state that that will be true if you just act as a friend but not so if you continue to act in a certain way, so I plan to flirt, tease, and basically seduce her whilst being her 'friend'. If we could get to hang out at either of our places when I'm sure that would lead to sleeping together, which in turn might rekindle things.

 

Overall, I got the outcome I wanted, we're planning to go out Friday, but I did so in way that may have gone back and done a little damage to things.

 

Still, if she sees a new me on Friday that might change things once again. I'm a big believer that a change in behaviour will bring about a change in opinion of someone. I'm not expecting miracles though. I know that it could be months until we got to a position of being able to have a go at things. I'm also aware it may never happen. I'm not standing still. I am on a dating site and open to meeting someone else. Right now, despite this apparent set back, I feel calm and clear minded. It's almost like a relief to know that it's almost certainly not going to happen anytime soon rather than thinking that a meeting or two will turn things around.

 

Finally then, as it stands the catch up seems on, she's stated it's as friends, I agreed, she is content with her decision of splitting up right now, we are likely to go down the route of 'friends', which I plan to use as a means to get her back. Based on how Friday goes however, I may just go no contact. If I get the sense on Friday that it hasn't gone well, I've pushed too much or whatever else, then going no contact, moving on, and seeing where we are in a few months' time would be the way to go.

 

I could write so much more but I think that's enough for now.

[NopeNah]

Setting yourself up for a huge let down,buddy..Just saying.

[TimmyC]

Hey friend, sorry about what your going through, I'll do my best to offer my two cents.

 

First, I'm going to agree with what a few others are saying. You have to take into consideration that she's been hurt. Sometimes it's hard to say I love you "Again" because its a verbal recognition to ones self that they have become vulnerable again.

 

And when you add marriage and kids into the picture (Baggage) it completely changes the game up. It's literally playing russian roulette with two rounds in the chamber.

 

Try to understand her point of view, you said she is very work oriented so I'd imagine she's accessing the risk.

 

*What if his Ex wife comes back into the picture?

*What if he starts to miss her?

*What if he becomes financially crippled by the divorce can I afford to support him?"

 

1 year is good chunk of time but not long enough for someone who's been hurt to open back up. She honestly sounds like a good woman, and for any woman willing to stick around for a year knowing that her man has that much baggage is worth keeping.

 

I would cut her some slack, and do your best to handle your own situations. Start to setup a backup plan for if things go south, Once she see's that she may start to feel more comfortable. She's a good woman that didn't deserve to be hurt man, protect her heart and take care of her. Give her stability.

[alpha99]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I feel in a good place now. This evening's conversation has made it clear exactly where things stand right now. I don't expect them to change immediately, I'm not clinging on or waiting forever, but I do want to be with her and so I am going to do what I feel is right to fight for her.

 

On the other hand, I now have a date for a week on Monday. I think it'll be good to go out and meet other women, and whilst I'm not adverse to meeting someone new and seeing what happens, I will be upfront in saying that for now I'm not looking for a long term relationship.

 

Timmy, thanks for your reply. I think this thread in its entirety, I don't expect you to have read it all, certainly shows that she's not worried at all about my ex wife coming back etc.

 

The 'issues' seem to boil down to a few things, my baggage and the ongoing mess - she claims not but I find it hard to imagine it couldn't have had an impact, her lack of love for me at the moment, and how she would she a potential future for us - she believes if we had kids we'd split up (madness!).

 

Thanks for the replies. I feel like today is the day I am able to emotionally move on. I love her and miss her but more in a mature way understanding of the situation rather than in a way of desperation.

 

At the moment it seems like Friday will be the last time I see her for a long time, unless something unexpected happens. I'll gauge the 'friends' thing on Friday but if it's a no go then I will go no contact and continue to move on, maybe seeing where she is as we already agreed in a few months' time etc.

 

She did actually say if she wakes up one morning and is really missing me then she would definitely get in touch. Although women talk nonsense at times during splits etc I feel she has tried to be as emotionally honest as possible. I do think she'll find it hard to meet someone else though, and I don't think enough time has passed and I've kept too much regular contact for her to have a chance to miss me yet. So we'll see what happens anyway.

[ExpatInItaly]

OP, you need to take real space from her.

 

Don't monitor her activity on the dating site. Don't plan out phone calls and meet-ups. All of this is showing her (bar the online activity, since she doesn't know you're watching) that you aren't letting go. She isn't talking to you and thinking "Wow, what a changed man!" She's probably thinking "It's nice that there are no hard feelings."

 

For a slim chance of reconciliation, she needs to see what life is like without you. So far, you haven't given her that chance. But the truth is that if she doesn't feel "it" for you, no amount of joking/innuendo/chatting is going to change that. That only works when both parties are in love, but perhaps circumstances or a big falling-out drove them apart. The way she describes it, she wasn't in love with you. Thus, I am afraid you're setting yourself up for disappointment here.

 

One of my exes was a truly good guy, kind and funny as hell, but I just couldn't continue the relationship knowing I'd lost feelings for him. After splitting, he tried to rekindle things in a similar way that you are now, but it was honestly pointless. I loved and cared about him, and was happy when he wanted to keep the peace, but I knew we'd never be a couple again. He called a lot. I eventually got tired of hearing from him and just wanted him to accept that it was over. He had to do so when I met someone else and started a new relationship. I tell you this because it sounds similar to what's going on here. Please, stop trying to reach out to her. If there is in fact any hope of getting back together, you're going about it all wrong (despite what the online books/programs/videos claim)

 

You're driving yourself crazy planning out and analyzing every single interaction. It's truly great that you've taken steps to improve yourself. Keep that up. You'll have great days and bad days. Normal part of the break-up roller coaster. But thinking out all of your conversations, interpreting them and unpacking them in detail and even listening to recorded calls... are all signs of a man who is in a lot of pain and getting desperate. Many of us have been where you are, to some degree. But it's time to give yourself a break from this. Isn't it exhausting? I know, easier said than done. But you are getting in your own way. Give yourself a much needed breather.

[alpha99]

Thank you all for the useful replies and advice.

 

I do take on board what everyone says even if I don't always follow what you're saying.

 

For example, I do believe that attraction can be created. People can change. I'm not asking her to remember the past and go from there, I'm trying to help her see a new me that she may find fall in love with.

 

I hear what you're saying about giving her space. That's what most of the internet says with no contact and all. The site I've used reckons that's a good idea like you say if there was love in the first place, but the approach I'm taking is that rather than sitting around when she says there was no deep feelings, I mean she does say that she cares about me deeply, loved being with me etc, instead I am trying to actively attract her back to me. She clearly fancied me enough at some point to be in a relationship. Whether it never moved on from there or other things in my life got in the way, I do believe that given enough time I could ignite that spark. I think those people who think it's either there or it's not are wrong.

 

You're absolutely spot on with the monitoring of the dating site. I need to stop. I did the same thing when I split with my wife but at a certain point I realised it wasn't getting me anywhere.

 

So here's my plan. Hopefully we go out Friday and I give it a shot at being friendly but trying to reattract her back. That's a long shot I know. The next step, depending on how Friday goes, would be to either keep in touch and actively try to move things along with her, or, if things go badly, to start no contact, move on with my life, and see where we are in the New Year.

 

I did mention about hanging out and being friends. Obviously I'd bail on that should either of us find someone else, but I think she's a slow mover when it comes to relationships, her last before me being six years prior, so there may be some time to be around each other and see if a change in approach can help develop feelings. Don't get me wrong, I won't be the doormat at her beck and call. I will be available when I'm available.

 

Finally, I know there are other people in the world and I may well bump into the perfect woman any day now. I do however think my ex is a great person, and I could find a way to help her feel for me what I feel for her then that would be the best thing ever.

 

It appears from her words that she's pretty much moved on already, but I don't know how much of that is just her saying things to not give me false hope or to protect herself. She's not a very emotive person.

 

Right, I'm starting to waffle so I'll wrap it up. Basically, each day the pain subsides, although it's not gone, and with the things I'm doing, getting out to the gym, new job, cinema, out with friends, meetup groups, new activities, dating etc then things are coming along nicely. I do want her back, but it's become more of a want than a desperate need.

 

I have tried to be masculine on the phone with her and say things in a matter of fact way, things like I love her still and I miss her, rather than saying them in a weak, needy way.

 

Thanks again for the advice and it may well be that the next step after Friday is to take a big step back.

[alpha99]

Good evening all (it's evening as I write)

 

Well, today I had a great day at work. I'm settling in well and feeling part of the place now. The people are nice and conversations are becoming easier. When I first started it was difficult because I was sitting there only think about my ex. I still spend a lot of time thinking about her but last night for the first time post split, so in nearly four weeks, I had a decent night's sleep.

 

I could endlessly interpret my ex's words through a phone call. Gods know I've have done. I suppose though the future is what matters. A common theme seems to be to take an ex's words with a huge pinch of salt when you're breaking up and just afterwards. I do however think my ex has been straight forward and honest in how she's felt to a large degree, despite throwing in the seemingly usual fluff of needing time, getting her head straight etc. I do think I can change her mind. I've read an awful lot and plan to put it into action if as planned we meet on Friday.

 

The main things:

I will maintain an awful lot of eye contact.

I will listen intently and where appropriate flirt.

I will try to instigate touch.

I will not mention our break up.

I will not get emotional.

I will make her laugh.

I will be confident, smiling, and having fun.

I will keep the meet up relatively short and be the one to end it.

I will not request a follow up whilst we are out.

I will display the changes in myself that I believe have been made since we split up.

If things go well I will try and hug her and/or kiss her.

 

 

She had her big project end today. I texted her last night wishing her luck, she replied. I texted this evening asking how it went, again she replied. Tomorrow we will chat on the phone. This will be crucial. If I come across needy she will probably not want to go out. Therefore I'm setting myself a ten minute time limit. I will set an alarm before I call and once it goes off I'll end the conversation and get off the phone asap having arranged the meet up for Friday. I will keep the conversation light and about her work stuff, other than arranging the meet up. I am going out tomorrow and so will have to go anyway.

 

One thing not on the list, because I'm staying positive, is that I am aware that we may end up walking away at the end of the night with her saying she still only ever wants to be friends. I'm aware that that is the likely scenario and I'm mentally prepared for that I think, but I prefer to be positive.

 

So, on that note, are there any other positive thoughts or tips that you may want to add to what I've written above?

[LargoLagg]

Good evening all (it's evening as I write)

 

Well, today I had a great day at work. I'm settling in well and feeling part of the place now. The people are nice and conversations are becoming easier. When I first started it was difficult because I was sitting there only think about my ex. I still spend a lot of time thinking about her but last night for the first time post split, so in nearly four weeks, I had a decent night's sleep.

 

I could endlessly interpret my ex's words through a phone call. Gods know I've have done. I suppose though the future is what matters. A common theme seems to be to take an ex's words with a huge pinch of salt when you're breaking up and just afterwards. I do however think my ex has been straight forward and honest in how she's felt to a large degree, despite throwing in the seemingly usual fluff of needing time, getting her head straight etc. I do think I can change her mind. I've read an awful lot and plan to put it into action if as planned we meet on Friday.

 

The main things:

I will maintain an awful lot of eye contact.

I will listen intently and where appropriate flirt.

I will try to instigate touch.

I will not mention our break up.

I will not get emotional.

I will make her laugh.

I will be confident, smiling, and having fun.

I will keep the meet up relatively short and be the one to end it.

I will not request a follow up whilst we are out.

I will display the changes in myself that I believe have been made since we split up.

If things go well I will try and hug her and/or kiss her.

 

 

She had her big project end today. I texted her last night wishing her luck, she replied. I texted this evening asking how it went, again she replied. Tomorrow we will chat on the phone. This will be crucial. If I come across needy she will probably not want to go out. Therefore I'm setting myself a ten minute time limit. I will set an alarm before I call and once it goes off I'll end the conversation and get off the phone asap having arranged the meet up for Friday. I will keep the conversation light and about her work stuff, other than arranging the meet up. I am going out tomorrow and so will have to go anyway.

 

One thing not on the list, because I'm staying positive, is that I am aware that we may end up walking away at the end of the night with her saying she still only ever wants to be friends. I'm aware that that is the likely scenario and I'm mentally prepared for that I think, but I prefer to be positive.

 

So, on that note, are there any other positive thoughts or tips that you may want to add to what I've written above?

Only that once, like you, I had a checklist of sorts that I used to keep myself disciplined in my conversations with my ex. My rebound found it and laughed at me, in a roll eyes kind of way.

 

Try and keep your good humor. You're going to need it.