1 Year relationship - can't say she loves me! [update: We have split up]

[DKT3]

If she is only returning your attempts to contact her she isn't interested. Stop trying to force a relationship with this woman.

[dumbass2]

"Im going to text her tomorrow, call her over the weekend and try and arrange a meet up for next week."

 

You posted this on Jan 26th. What was her response to this? Now you mention "if" we get to a meet up.

[alpha99]

Thanks for the replies,

 

Things move over time. We had a very pleasant chat the other day. We've spoken 5 times in 9 days to varying degrees. I didn't ask her out last week in the end as I felt the calling was doing the trick and that rebuilding a bond in that way would make a meet up more effective. We plan to meet up in the next school holidays in about 10 days.

 

I believe she does have feelings still for me.

 

As I said, she began teasing me in the last call and I can sense what's behind the exterior.

 

Life is unpredictable and I'm following my heart. I know where things stand and I'm aware I may not get what I want.

 

She's starting to open up more in our calls. My physique is starting to look really pretty good. I'm feeling good about myself and more confident by the day. My choice of words like if and when are just randomly used. We will meet up soon. That will be crunch time. I will be ready!

[Sweetfish]

Thanks for the replies,

 

Things move over time. We had a very pleasant chat the other day. We've spoken 5 times in 9 days to varying degrees. I didn't ask her out last week in the end as I felt the calling was doing the trick and that rebuilding a bond in that way would make a meet up more effective. We plan to meet up in the next school holidays in about 10 days.

 

I believe she does have feelings still for me.

 

As I said, she began teasing me in the last call and I can sense what's behind the exterior.

 

Life is unpredictable and I'm following my heart. I know where things stand and I'm aware I may not get what I want.

 

She's starting to open up more in our calls. My physique is starting to look really pretty good. I'm feeling good about myself and more confident by the day. My choice of words like if and when are just randomly used. We will meet up soon. That will be crunch time. I will be ready!

 

I truly hope it works out..I really do.

 

But before the breakup you were clueless about her feeling as well. What make you sooo sure now?

[alpha99]

Thanks Sweetish,

 

I've always known she cares for me, the question was always love. I feel she has issues in that regard, barriers that need to come down. I feel clearing up my 'baggage', changing for the better, and maintaining pleasant communication 'may' over time lead her to the point where she feels things are worth revisiting. Hard to explain but just a hunch I have since we were so good together.

 

She's happy to interact, even if for the moment I'm making the effort for now.

 

My simple idea is:

Continue contact and escalate it, all the while laughing, teasing, flirting etc

Move into meeting up

Have subsequent meet ups till intimacy is reached

Sleep together

Begin new relationship...

 

I've read an awful lot and have a clear idea of what I'm aiming for. I think that's far better than bouncing all over the place from one idea to the next.

 

Basically friends without being just friends, always pushing that boundary.

 

It may not work but I've seen a chink of light recently

[alpha99]

Hi all, I'll try and keep this brief

 

Interesting development, just had 1.5hr conversation with ex.

 

Part way through she brings up 'us'. She really opened up on her thoughts about our time together. The main points being she agreed that when it was just me and her it was lovely... But... She felt the drama in my life would never end and that's a big part in things ending with us it seems.

 

I have more confidence this could be fixed.

 

Again, her main concern was that a future would be endless war with my ex. I now have divorce, kids custody and assault all to be sorted very shortly and don't believe this would be the case.

 

I explained how I've changed my life for the better but how I didn't expect her to believe merely words.

 

She felt those changes were just to win her back. They're not. Our break up may have inspired them but I've done lots of things for me.

 

I have improved confidence, I'm emotionally stronger than before, I don't let life's issues affect me as much, new hobbies better physique etc

 

She said people have told her to cut off all contact but she doesn't want to do that.

 

I am clearer on what I need to do now. Looking back at the very first page if this thread it was suggested that she would not give herself fully to me so long as I was married and had all these issues to sort out. I NEED TO SORT THEM OUT. I'm doing something on those things every day right now. Therebwas no mention of lack of feelings etc, her only reasons given were simply about the drama. Makes me think if I get it sorted and we're both still single I could reattach her and we could start afresh.

 

I feel quite buoyed that she opened up and gave the real reasons as to what was on her mind. They're things that can be fixed. She says it's too late to fix things but I don't believe so...

[ExpatInItaly]

You're still not listening to her. She told you it's too late to fix things.

 

The reason she didn't mention a lack of feelings this time is because she already has - many times. You didn't take the hint, so she's trying a different approach now to get you to understand that she's not into it.

 

Stop initiating contact with her.

 

If she doesn't come looking for you, you will know if you are still wasting your time.

Edited February 6, 2017 by ExpatInItaly

[alpha99]

Thanks expat,

 

I can't summarise a 1.5hr conversation in a few short lines... But I'll try

 

I think she meant that she doesn't want a life full of drama. She talked at length about the little things that added up re my children, how I dealt with things such as solicitors, ex, divorce (top slow) etc, how she feels the drama will go on indefinitely and I can never change the way I handle things. Well clearly I can... I already have

 

a week today I'll have custody sorted and the divorce is under way.

 

She pointed out she doesn't like hypothetical future talk and if I continue to do that it makes her think things definitely will never happen for us. There does seem to be a part of her holding on for me to finalise all of my outstanding stuff - that's what I take from what she says.

 

Aside from relationship talk we get on as good as ever. She's said multiple times she we doesn't want me out of her life. I realise all the implications of that.

 

The conversation ended with her agreeing that we'll speak again in a few days time and that she'd think about what I'd said.

 

I actually have a date on Saturday, so although I want her back at the same time I'm trying to move on in some way.

 

From now on I'm going to cut out the 'future' talk of us and instead focus on the here and now. We're chatting twice a week and it was talk of babies that derailed things last night. She's not adverse to the flirting. In fact, when I said about how I should have been more manly she pointed out that changing the way I am, hitting the gym and beefing up, flirting etc are all things I should have done when we were together.

 

I believe if I continue these things and get to show them to her they will have an effect on her.

 

I love her and don't want to walk away till I've given everything. Next week is a big one with the kids custody getting sorted. That will be my main focus. When we chat next though I plan to work out meeting arrangements for after that so we have something substantial to talk about that isn't us.

.

[mightycpa]

Thanks expat,

 

I can't summarise a 1.5hr conversation in a few short lines... But I'll try

 

I think she meant that she doesn't want a life full of drama. She talked at length about the little things that added up re my children, how I dealt with things such as solicitors, ex, divorce (top slow) etc, how she feels the drama will go on indefinitely and I can never change the way I handle things. Well clearly I can... I already have

 

That is rarely the case. Your gut instincts are your gut instincts. Besides, why would you change for someone else? Why don't you want to be you, even if that means drama?

 

Lastly, look at the way you're dealing with this breakup. Drama. The "no drama" way to deal with a breakup is to walk away. You should tell her that. Tell her you've been thinking about what she's telling you and that you finally see how these ongoing emotional conversations with her are just keeping you in one more unnecessary drama that you don't need in your life. Then wish her luck and tell her goodbye.

 

But of course, you won't, because you want to drag this out, you need the conflict, all the back and forth, the unhappiness, the emotional negotiation. You've rejected the one approach to the end of your relationship that would make it drama-free, which would be to accept the end and move on without looking back. Not you. You need examine every loose thread, overturn every stone, do whatever it takes. When it is finally over, one of you will be angry at the other. You won't just end it now, not because you love her. Because you love the drama.

 

I'll be that's exactly what she's thinking. You should think about it too.

[ExpatInItaly]

What talk of babies?

 

I think the key here is that you've been doing all the initiating so far, so you don't know if her continued communication is only because she's trying to be nice by responding or if she has a genuine interest. The only way you can really test this is by ceasing contact and seeing if she comes to find you.

 

One thing stuck out to me in a previous post: she said people have advised she cut all contact with you. That strongly suggests she's been complaining about you to these people, which isn't good. There really isn't a reason why they'd tell her to cut you off unless she'd implied to them that you are being too persistent or not getting that this was a break-up. Think about that carefully. Yes, she disagrees with them in terms of cutting you off for good, but it speaks volumes as to what she's been feeling about this and discussing with friends.

 

I'm not her, so I can't speak for her. But I'll say this: If I'd broken up with a guy I really liked but who also had a boatload of unresolved issues (divorce, custody, etc)...and then came to find out he was actually doing something about those issues, I'd be delighted. Cautious, but happy. The fact that she's telling you it's too late anyway says (in my opinion) that getting these problems sorted out isn't going to bring the results you're hoping for with her.

 

I think it's very commendable that you are taking so many positive steps in your life anyway, as it sounds like they very much needed to happen. That's awesome and you should keep it up. I just don't think you should be getting your hopes up that a better physique or solid custody arrangement will mean that you two reunite. Do these things for you.

[JuneL]

 

In fact, when I said about how I should have been more manly she pointed out that changing the way I am, hitting the gym and beefing up, flirting etc are all things I should have done when we were together.

 

.

 

Most (if not all) women are attracted to manly behaviors. Does it occur to you that what you're doing as stated below is quite unmanly?

 

 

I believe if I continue these things and get to show them to her they will have an effect on her.

 

I love her and don't want to walk away till I've given everything.

.

[Sweetfish]

What talk of babies?

 

I think the key here is that you've been doing all the initiating so far, so you don't know if her continued communication is only because she's trying to be nice by responding or if she has a genuine interest. The only way you can really test this is by ceasing contact and seeing if she comes to find you.

 

One thing stuck out to me in a previous post: she said people have advised she cut all contact with you. That strongly suggests she's been complaining about you to these people, which isn't good. There really isn't a reason why they'd tell her to cut you off unless she'd implied to them that you are being too persistent or not getting that this was a break-up. Think about that carefully. Yes, she disagrees with them in terms of cutting you off for good, but it speaks volumes as to what she's been feeling about this and discussing with friends.

 

I'm not her, so I can't speak for her. But I'll say this: If I'd broken up with a guy I really liked but who also had a boatload of unresolved issues (divorce, custody, etc)...and then came to find out he was actually doing something about those issues, I'd be delighted. Cautious, but happy. The fact that she's telling you it's too late anyway says (in my opinion) that getting these problems sorted out isn't going to bring the results you're hoping for with her.

 

I think it's very commendable that you are taking so many positive steps in your life anyway, as it sounds like they very much needed to happen. That's awesome and you should keep it up. I just don't think you should be getting your hopes up that a better physique or solid custody arrangement will mean that you two reunite. Do these things for you.

 

 

Exactly...

 

It would have been more effective... if you completely stepped away and resolved your issues and if she came back saw all the changes.

 

Now... you have all her friends against you.

 

You are building a coffin and forcing her to have feeling for you.

[alpha99]

As ever thanks for the replies,

 

Lots to cover there: yeah, she's mentioned me to work colleagues in a negative sense. In the past I've got overly emotional but no more and recently she's been happier to chat. People are fickle, and if she said oh he did this or that or we met up and had a nice time her friends would no doubt say ah you should give him another shot.

 

The changes I'm making are for me. No doubt they've been inspired by recent events but whether it's with her or not come the summer I'm going to look ripped and good etc.

 

I've read a lot online and walking away now would be a bad thing I believe. I know most here are pro nc and moving on, but being in contact allows a chance to show changes whereas walking away just affords her time to move on.

 

I don't want to change for her, but for myself. I've identified areas of me that need to change and I'm working on them. Of course I hope those changes reflect well in her opinion of me. Last call she said I'd finally grown some balls, so she's seeing the difference.

 

Our chats are friendly. I flirt with her. Sometimes she does back. I've been under a cloud for a while because of my drama but it's clearing up. I don't crave it, not me at all. I'm usually a stress free person but most people don't have all the things going on I have right now and so I understand her not wanting a part of that. The hope is that as I move on with life in a number of ways, the drama dies down, and she sees the changes then she may reconsider things. She's happy to be friends and so we'll go from there... But not friends friends, rather just a label which means we can continue to interact

[Blanco]

I know some will disagree with me, but I think this is a great example of why it's usually unwise to get seriously involved with someone when you're not even legally divorced.

 

The way you have glommed onto this uninterested woman indicates that maybe you haven't really processed the demise of your marriage (despite what you think), and now you're just transferring a lot of that stuff onto this relationship.

 

Either way, I think you need to detach and actually be SINGLE for a while and just be there for your kids instead of investing so much time and energy into women and relationships, especially ones so clearly unsustainable.

[alpha99]

Thanks for your message.

 

I'm completely over my marriage, so that's no issue here.

 

Quick update:

 

I realised last week that long, sometimes emotional conversations are no good over the phone. Today we spoke for 40 mins. I started with an apology and then a thank you. It was genuine and she genuinely accepted. From that point things were better than ever, the conversation being light and funny with a bit of banter thrown in. We both clearly felt good speaking to each other, it was like a weight has done been lifted...the best since we split up.

 

My thank you was for her help and support re my kids and the court. That hearing is today. My focus is of course on that. Later today when it's done I'll speak to ex again re the outcome.

 

Whatever happens next in all aspects of my life, I feel pretty happy at the moment.

[Sweetfish]

Thanks for your message.

 

I'm completely over my marriage, so that's no issue here.

 

Quick update:

 

I realised last week that long, sometimes emotional conversations are no good over the phone. Today we spoke for 40 mins. I started with an apology and then a thank you. It was genuine and she genuinely accepted. From that point things were better than ever, the conversation being light and funny with a bit of banter thrown in. We both clearly felt good speaking to each other, it was like a weight has done been lifted...the best since we split up.

 

My thank you was for her help and support re my kids and the court. That hearing is today. My focus is of course on that. Later today when it's done I'll speak to ex again re the outcome.

 

Whatever happens next in all aspects of my life, I feel pretty happy at the moment.

 

 

Updates? Progress?

[TooRational]

Kinda curious too about what happened in the past two months since the last update. Hope you're doing well.

[alpha99]

Hi all, it's been a while.

 

Update time: Since my last post ex and I have spoken on semi regular basis, once every week or two. Things have ebbed and flowed in terms of whether each conversation was good or not so good. Ultimately recently it seems things have been in a holding pattern, she's been happy to chat but reluctant to meet up thinking I'd bombard her with big declarations etc.

 

I decided to take the bull by the horns. Risky move I know but I went around to her house without notice on the off chance she'd be at home to give her something, nothing vital, so yes I admit it was just a way of seeing her. I didn't know whether she'd tell me to go away, be annoyed, chat briefly at the door or whatever.

 

Naturally she seemed a little shocked on opening the door (no surprise there) but immediately invited me in for a drink. I did have plans to go on to somewhere else but we were having such a great time talking that I put off other plans and spent around 3.5 hours at hers staying late into the night.

 

During that time she made me drinks, we caught up, and things were extremely pleasant and positive. We laughed and joked and there was hardly a pause and no awkward atmosphere. I flirted with her, made lots of eye contact, touched her thigh repeatedly as we laughed and joked. She appeared to enjoy this. Her eyes lit up and on a few occasions she simply couldn't hide her smile. She was also twirling her hair at times, something I've never noticed her doing before.

 

The last 10-15 minutes of the conversation turned to 'us'. I was happy to have the opportunity to say everything I've wanted to say to her for months now face to face. As I left we stood in her doorway and recapped on what had been said. At this point she dipped her head and looked up with her big beautiful eyes in a submissive way. I noticed her eyes were watery as if she was getting slightly emotional.

 

We parted ways by saying goodbye with a big hug and a peck on the cheek. She waved goodbye to me as I drove away.

 

She'd earlier also threw in a few tests to see how I'd react. I've read a lot about relationships recently and have worked hard on myself to become an emotionally stronger person. I think she definitely noticed this as whereas previously I'd have descended into an emotional outpouring when encountering certain topics, this time I maintained my composure and was more robust. I've worked out an awful lot over recent months, losing around 30lbs since we split up and gaining substantial muscle. I was wearing a short sleeve t shirt which of course exposed my arms and at one point I caught her checking out my (twice the size of before) biceps. She also opened up more beyond surface level chit chat to her feelings on certain aspects of life.

 

I'm so glad I went. I've spoken to her since on the phone and sensed a new lightness to our conversation. I know I've said similar things before but this time there's a big difference. She's been a lot more forthcoming. I'm working on some home improvements right now and she asked me to send her a picture of them when I'm done.

 

In the phone conversation I said I had enjoyed seeing her and would like to see her again. Only a short time ago she may have blanked that remark or said she didn't think it was a good idea. This time she was laughing and said 'yes, I know that' - done so in light and frivolous way.

 

It's my birthday within the next two weeks and I casually put it out there that if she felt like we could go out for a meal sometime around then.

 

We're a long way from getting back together, if we ever do, but I'm sure now more than ever that there's a good chance we can work things out. I know it won't be plain sailing and there's a lot of work to do but I'm willing and able to do it.

 

Face to face contact was so vital. I see it for her like going to the dentist - putting off meeting up as she felt it would be a bad experience but upon it actually happening realising it wasn't so bad at all.

 

We texted briefly last night. Prior to seeing her it was hit and miss whether she'd reply to any one message. Last night she replied within a minute of me texting her.

 

So, all pretty positive stuff. The point of posting all of this is to ask how you think I should go forward from here?

 

The obvious route seems to be arrange a proper meet up (e.g. around my birthday) and in the meantime text and chat on the phone throwing in some flirting and innuendo.

 

Eg, part of her job involves writing reports and producing figures. I'm going to text her in a day or two asking if she's got her latest reports done and whether we need to 'play with each others figures'

 

So again, any positive tips on how to proceed would be much appreciated.

[TooRational]

Hi there,

 

I'm glad things are kinda working out for you. Good job on your self improvement. I'm not quite sure what the next step with your ex should be but my advice would be to keep your options open. You might not believe it now but the best woman for you might still be out there and not your ex.

 

Your ex knows that she can get you back whenever she wants so there's no thrill, no challenge for her. She might be more attracted if she knows you wouldn't drop everything in a split second to be with her. Go out there and do your own things. Meet other girls but please be honest that you're still not over your ex. Basically go out there and enjoy life without putting too much emphasis or expectations in the outcome with your ex. You seem on the right path.

 

Just a quick comment about this:

I know it won't be plain sailing and there's a lot of work to do but I'm willing and able to do it.

 

Great relationships shouldn't feel like work. There was a lot of work involved to keep my last relationship together. To prevent it from falling appart. Not so with my current relationship, everthing is smooth sailing so far and I take that as a very positive sign.

 

Good luck.