Stuck in Limbo

[anna121]

I agree with 81West - great wording!

 

I can also see how the sitch felt urgent to you. Maybe in future, if you're engaged in these totally useless text wars (which, it appears, are hardly ever started by you) and you DO feel the need to respond to a pointed criticism, because you want to tell her something else, you could stick a preliminary "Sorry you feel that way - not my intent" in there and then move on to whatever it is you were planning to say. Make it a mantra of sorts. I added the "not my intent" upon reflection b/c the first phrase alone could look too dismissive and set her off more.

[The_Onceler]

I agree with 81West - great wording!

 

I can also see how the sitch felt urgent to you. Maybe in future, if you're engaged in these totally useless text wars (which, it appears, are hardly ever started by you) and you DO feel the need to respond to a pointed criticism, because you want to tell her something else, you could stick a preliminary "Sorry you feel that way - not my intent" in there and then move on to whatever it is you were planning to say. Make it a mantra of sorts. I added the "not my intent" upon reflection b/c the first phrase alone could look too dismissive and set her off more.

 

 

Thanks, anna.

 

I generally find that I get all tweaked up at these sorts of messages from her. I realize on an intellectual level that texts are a HORRIBLE way to communicate, but even so, I find it all too easy to assume the worst and get angry, and then text a reply out of anger.

 

I have started to make myself at least pause before responding, if not totally ignoring the message. I like your idea better: respond with a conciliatory, non-inflammatory response that does not invite conversation.

 

Part of my concern in this particular case is that I am fairly confident that her intent is to try to talk me into having the four of us all go to the show together.

 

She insists that, although we have split up, it is still in the best interest of the kids that we do things together. I feel that doing so is entirely the wrong thing to do. Yes, it is important that she and I can "play nice" during those times when we have to be together - kid exchanges, school plays, karate belt tests, etc. - but she seems to think that it should go further, and that we should all be able to do things as a family, as if the split never happened, but then of course still all go to our separate homes at the end of the day.

 

To me, that is not what "congenial co-parenting" means. I mean, maybe is *could* mean that, if I was more comfortable with being around her, but not only does that cause me distress, but it seems to me that it would only further confuse our kids. They are only now coming to grips with the absoluteness and finality of the split. What would it do to them if we started intermittently acting as if the split had never happened at all?

 

For instance, they did not understand why I was not buying a Valentine gift for their mother.

 

But perhaps I am wrong?

[The_Onceler]

Hey Ex, I do understand that it might feel like I kind of took over your plans for the show with the Jones' but that was not at all my intention. I was already looking forward to bringing the girls and thought it was a great idea to go together once I learned they were interested. They of course are my friends too after all these years and it is in the interest of the girls to maintain all the relationships they had before our split regardless of which parent they're with at any given time. I'm sure they'll be excited to tell you about the show. Thanks for helping me keep it a surprise.

 

OK, so I sent her a note along these lines. Here is her response:

 

It would have been nice for you (or them for that matter) to at least mention it to me prior to making those plans together. It was quite hurtful to find our after the fact. Of course I'd have been excited to go to the show with the girls and our friends too. I just don't know why it is beyond your reasoning that we might have been able to manage a couple hours of an outing together. People do manage such coparenting relationships, and the kids are always better off for it.

 

The one thing we've managed to consistently do well together all these years is being parents. My hope was that we could have continued that.

 

I have not responded. If I *was* to respond, a few of my thoughts are:

 

(1) The other couple and I have our own relationship. I do not need to check in with my ex in order to make plans with them, or anyone else, for that matter.

 

(2) I am uncomfortable around my ex. That alone means that I have to sacrifice personally in order for the four of us to spend time together. It also means that the experience for my children will be diminished to the extent that I am emotionally affected.

 

(3) Even though I am more than prepared to make such a sacrifice for my kids, I firmly believe that it does them more harm than good for my ex and I to do things with them, as if we were still an intact family. Perhaps after enough time, and perhaps when the kids are a bit older, they would be able to benefit from sharing experiences with both their mother and I and would not suffer from false hope or confusion about our situation, but at this stage, I don't believe that to be the case (despite her assertion that "the kids are always better off for it).

 

(4) If she had hoped that we would be able to continue to parent well together, then perhaps she might have refrained from choosing to prioritize the other man, and to opt to leave.

[81West]

OK, so I sent her a note along these lines. Here is her response:

 

It would have been nice for you (or them for that matter) to at least mention it to me prior to making those plans together. It was quite hurtful to find our after the fact. Of course I'd have been excited to go to the show with the girls and our friends too. I just don't know why it is beyond your reasoning that we might have been able to manage a couple hours of an outing together. People do manage such coparenting relationships, and the kids are always better off for it.

 

The one thing we've managed to consistently do well together all these years is being parents. My hope was that we could have continued that.

 

I have not responded. If I *was* to respond, a few of my thoughts are:

 

(1) The other couple and I have our own relationship. I do not need to check in with my ex in order to make plans with them, or anyone else, for that matter.

 

(2) I am uncomfortable around my ex. That alone means that I have to sacrifice personally in order for the four of us to spend time together. It also means that the experience for my children will be diminished to the extent that I am emotionally affected.

 

(3) Even though I am more than prepared to make such a sacrifice for my kids, I firmly believe that it does them more harm than good for my ex and I to do things with them, as if we were still an intact family. Perhaps after enough time, and perhaps when the kids are a bit older, they would be able to benefit from sharing experiences with both their mother and I and would not suffer from false hope or confusion about our situation, but at this stage, I don't believe that to be the case (despite her assertion that "the kids are always better off for it).

 

(4) If she had hoped that we would be able to continue to parent well together, then perhaps she might have refrained from choosing to prioritize the other man, and to opt to leave.

 

Glad you gave it a good shot shot. Here's my next attempt at taking over your phone.

 

"It's not beyond my reasoning, it's beyond my sense of what is in the best interest of the girls' and me at this stage. That may change in the future. Ex, you need to understand we are not at the same place yet nor is it reasonable to expect us to be. You changed a lot of lives with your choices and you need to allow time and space for the rest of us to find our way forward, and the reality is it may not be your way. Again, I'm sorry you were hurt by my plans. It was not the intention, nor will it ever be the intention if there is a similar situation in the future."

[anna121]

You're welcome, onceler.

 

I think it may be time for a come to Jesus moment with her.

 

I think you need to say something like: "I am committed to our girls, to being civil with you and to co-operating where necessary. But I believe it is best to keep our social interactions to a minimum. So I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop making these sorts of requests. I respect your time with the girls and have no wish to interfere with that. I simply am asking for equal consideration. Thank you. "

[anna121]

Once again I like 81West's wording! Mine is a bit more clinical - I was trying to aim for detachment.

 

I do think it is important though, that you ASK her to cease making these sorts of requests.

[The_Onceler]

Glad you gave it a good shot shot. Here's my next attempt at taking over your phone.

 

Thanks for your response. I appreciate your input. That said, I think I will just leave off there, and not press my luck.

[EZNona]

Thanks for your response. I appreciate your input. That said, I think I will just leave off there, and not press my luck.

 

 

I don't know...81West's last response was pretty brilliant! It may be just what she needs to hear to understand that not everyone is far moved along as she is....She has forgotten that she had a head start with all this by creating a new life away from the marriage before anyone else was really ready for it.

 

81West's wording is clear, but not mean or aggressive. I think I might need him/her to write some phone messages for me too in the future!

[The_Onceler]

I don't know...81West's last response was pretty brilliant! It may be just what she needs to hear to understand that not everyone is far moved along as she is....

 

You know, I *was* tempted. But if past experience is any guide... she bristles at the notion that the acts of checking out of our relationship, engaging with an ex-boyfriend, moving out and pursuing a relationship with the other man - she bristles at the notion that those were her choices alone.

 

She has said that (1) because our relationship was troubled (which, by the way, was entirely my fault!), and (2) because when she announced that she wanted to leave me to pursue him, I did not react by fighting for her - those two reasons render "her" choice to leave as having been equally my choice.

 

So, I suspect that, had I made any comment regarding how her choices have changed all of our lives, she would likely have fired back about how her affair was just as much my choice as hers. She feels that, if I had decided to keep her happy in our relationship, then she would not have had the affair and subsequently left.

 

So, yeah... I am now guessing at what she would say and putting words in her mouth, but... I've been through this once or twice before with her.

[The_Onceler]

So, I recently broached the topic of relocating with my ex. Her new man lives about 40 miles away (and over the state line). She has indicated that she will likely want to live with him, and want to move to some place convenient to the both of them, which would not be where we are now.

 

Anyway, I was trying to figure out what to do about buying/selling my house - I didn't want to sell and buy, only to then have to face selling AGAIN if she wanted to move to a new town.

 

But, in the process, I realized that she was moving ahead with potentially becoming a step-mom to come other kids, and introducing a step-family to my kids.

 

I am sure that many of you are step-parents, and while that is increasingly common, I grew up with a very abusive step father, and to this day, I find that I hate the idea of being a step father.

 

So, I am trying to wrap my head around everything that implies, both from my perspective and my ex's, but also from that of our kids. It is *so* complicated to explain. But I recall feeling abandoned and unloved (among many other things) when my father chose to be absent and my mother then chose to be with my abusive step father.

 

Anyway, I am just processing a bit here. Thanks for listening...

[The_Onceler]

So, her step-mother passed away unexpectedly. For me, it is something of a blow - her step mother is grandmother to my children, and she has been in my life for most of the past 10 years.

 

I have tried to be supportive to my ex, and I have had our kids with me more or less 24/7 for the last couple of weeks, while her step mother was in declining health.

 

I of course wanted to attend the wake, to pay my respects, and to say goodbye. That was yesterday. My ex asked me what my plans were, and when I told her, she asked whether I would mind driving her there, so she could drive home with another family member afterward. I did not want to, but I felt that, again, out of respect for the deceased, I would take her.

 

The funeral is today, and we had agreed that we would bring our kids to the reception. I was planning to drive them out there in a few hours.

 

My ex just sent me a note, saying that she is bringing her boyfriend to the funeral and reception. She sort of apologized for the fact that I would have to meet him under these circumstances. She also noted that she had tried to take my feelings into consideration, but in the end, decided that her need to have him there outweighed my need to not have to meet him.

 

I really don't want to have to see him and her together, especially when he will essentially be sitting in my place. You know what I mean? All of these extended family, people who I have come to feel as my own family, will be with my ex, and he will be at her side. If I want to share my feelings with family, it will have to be in his presence.

 

I really don't feel prepared for that. I wouldn't go at all, except that we had agreed that our kids needed to be able to share the experience with family.

 

I have suggested to her that, in light of this new information, I could simply drop the kids off with her at the reception, and then she could take them home.

 

Am I being unreasonable?

[The_Onceler]

My ex lost her step mother a few days ago. She had been in declining health, but suddently took a turn and passed in a matter of weeks.

 

I had not seen her in some time, due to the split with my ex. And my ex had not seen her either, and was somewhat blindsided as well. Over these last few weeks, the kids have been primarily with me, as my ex dealt with all of what was happening.

 

When her step mother did pass, my ex called me in hysterics. She was driving and distraught, so I stayed on the line with her until she calmed down, which was 20 or 30 minutes (I was at work).

 

The wake was yesterday. For myself, I wanted to attend, since the deceased was not merely the step mother of my ex, but she had been in my life for almost 10 years, and she was grandmother to my children. My ex asked me what my plan was, and when I told her I intended to be at the wake at the start, she asked if I would mind driving her.

 

I really didn't want to, but out of respect for the deceased, I decided to put my feelings aside and drive her there.

 

The funeral is today. We had previously agreed that our kids should attend the reception only. I am to bring them there shortly. Well, my ex just informed me that she is bringing her boyfriend to the services today. She sort of apologized for having the two of us meet under the circumstances. She also sort of apologized for having him there, when she knew that it would be upsetting for me. But, in the end, she said her own need for comfort for him outweighed her concern for me.

 

I really don't feel prepared for this. The family knows that she and I have split, but even so... they have mostly become my family too, over the years. If I want to be able to be there with them today, it will have to be while I watch her crying on his shoulder. He will not merely be there - he will be essentially there in what otherwise would have been my place. And my concern is not so much about ego, between he and I - it is about having to share my grief with family WHILE I also have to watch my ex as she leans on her new man.

 

I just don't want to go at all.

 

Is that unreasonable?

[Jersey born raised]

No it is not. Offer to bring them and pick them up.

[road]

My ex lost her step mother a few days ago. She had been in declining health, but suddently took a turn and passed in a matter of weeks.

 

I had not seen her in some time, due to the split with my ex. And my ex had not seen her either, and was somewhat blindsided as well. Over these last few weeks, the kids have been primarily with me, as my ex dealt with all of what was happening.

 

When her step mother did pass, my ex called me in hysterics. She was driving and distraught, so I stayed on the line with her until she calmed down, which was 20 or 30 minutes (I was at work).

 

The wake was yesterday. For myself, I wanted to attend, since the deceased was not merely the step mother of my ex, but she had been in my life for almost 10 years, and she was grandmother to my children. My ex asked me what my plan was, and when I told her I intended to be at the wake at the start, she asked if I would mind driving her.

 

I really didn't want to, but out of respect for the deceased, I decided to put my feelings aside and drive her there.

 

The funeral is today. We had previously agreed that our kids should attend the reception only. I am to bring them there shortly. Well, my ex just informed me that she is bringing her boyfriend to the services today. She sort of apologized for having the two of us meet under the circumstances. She also sort of apologized for having him there, when she knew that it would be upsetting for me. But, in the end, she said her own need for comfort for him outweighed her concern for me.

 

I really don't feel prepared for this. The family knows that she and I have split, but even so... they have mostly become my family too, over the years. If I want to be able to be there with them today, it will have to be while I watch her crying on his shoulder. He will not merely be there - he will be essentially there in what otherwise would have been my place. And my concern is not so much about ego, between he and I - it is about having to share my grief with family WHILE I also have to watch my ex as she leans on her new man.

 

I just don't want to go at all.

 

Is that unreasonable?

 

 

Very reasonable on your part. I would not go under those circumstances.

Ex WW used use for support just to see if she still could. Now that she

got her ego fix, and her new man is getting jealous she throws you

under the truck with four tandem axles.

 

This is why you need to go NC with your ex WW. It will be healthier

for you.

[anna121]

No I don't think it is unreasonable, especially as you went to the wake. Your first responsibility needs to be to your own well-being.

[Marc878]

Perfect solution. At the end of the day they are not your family anymore.

 

She doesn't mind and wants the interaction with you on her terms. The reason is she's not on the receiving end of this and will never see your side. It's called cake eating.

 

Set your boundaries and enforce them to the letter. Being a Mr Nice Guy in this situation will get you nothing. You have to look out for your future.

 

A friend of mine does an extremely hard 180. Pickups And drops offs are a 5 minute exercise. He makes it a point to never engage. She's bedside herself wanting a big happy family time after her affair. Can't understand why they can't be friends? The kids adjusted just fine.

 

He said after @9 months looking back it's the best thing he could've done. He fully detached and could care less about her wants.

 

Cut out the unnecessary texts, etc. You are still way to involved it seems.

[Whodatdog]

Not unreasonable at all. She is more concerned about her feelings and her boyfriend. You should be concerned about yourself.

 

Do what you need to do. She sure is.

 

I dont know, but if it were me, I think Id stop taking phone calls from her. She can text you just fine, whatever she needs, and that way you dont have to get involved with long phone calls with her. I dont know why she had to call you with a long hysterical phone call, when she could have called her boyfriend, or her family instead. I think you are letting yourself stay too involved when you really dont need to be.

 

Dont answer phone calls. Answer texts. It will keep the emotion out of it. Just my opinion.

 

And stop with this driving her anywhere. I dont care if it is for a wake. She is not your wife, and she is not your friend. Cut the ties. She can't have it both ways.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Whodatdog

[AMarriedMan]

Bluespower responding to The_Onceler:

 

I don't think you are better off alone.

 

Based on what exactly? You seem to be assuming that a man's life without a woman must be worse than living as a single man. I'm sure not all women are as bad as OP's ex but an awful lot are.

 

You may really need to get some therapy as to why you are such a dish rag, and maybe that will help you understand how to find and be in a healthy relationship.

 

Otherwise you seem like a fairly standard, fairly sane person. When you learn to understand where you went wrong in your thinking and heal from you wife's betrayal it might be a whole new world.

 

If OP finds out what went wrong with his ex and avoids those themes, it is entirely possible for issues of different type but equally bad to emerge. Also, there are some generic issues that have to do with sex differences that are nobody's fault but cannot be avoided.

 

 

The thing is that women like your ex can smell a weak man a mile away. They understand that they can have his comfort, love and money, and he will deal with the fact that she wants to sleep around.

 

That is what makes women like her predators. And everyone on LS complains about the male predators. I think that there are more female predators like your wife than there are male predators.

 

When you get healthy and understand more about women and relationships I think you will be able to find a great woman.

 

I think it is necessary to go beyond that. A romantic partner should be an enhancement to one's life, not a requirement. At his present stage of life, getting into a serious relationship with a woman would complicate OP's life quite a bit. He already has two fairly young children he will have to pay child support for for at least another decade and pay for their college education after that. Would he want to marry or live in a marriage-like relationship with a younger woman who has no children yet? In his mid-forties? In that scenario, the issue of having children with her would almost certainly come up in the near future. What about an older woman with children? Would he want to become a stepfather for someone else's children and assume at least partial responsibility for them? Would some voluntarily child-free woman want to put up with his children? How many women out there are willing to have a long-term relationship while maintaining separate residences indefinitely?

 

How much does OP crave intimacy with a woman (I take it that he is heterosexual) in the first place? Such cravings are a natural part of the human condition, in young people in particular, but they do not exist to serve us as individuals. Apart from warm fuzzy feelings, men stand to gain nothing from relationships with women. They exist to goad us toward making the huge sacrifices that reproduction entails for humans. Our long-term happiness is not required.

 

OP, to improve your love life, or to decide that having one is not in your best interests, you need to analyze what needs you are trying to have met by being romantically involved with a woman. Sex? Companionship? Emotional intimacy? An intellectual connection? A life partner? Social status? Something else? Maybe your analysis will reveal that the best way to go about meeting those needs is not trying to find all that or even a best possible compromise in a single female partner. Maybe for sex it's best to have an arrangement with a woman who wants nothing else. Maybe you can have the best conversations with some of your male friends. Maybe you'll find you cannot share your deepest fears and uncertainties with anyone in real life. Quite possibly, it would be unwise to burden your woman with them as it might cause her to see you as too weak. Maybe talking to a priest, a therapist, or perfect strangers anonymously over the internet is how you can best get those things off your chest and with the least fallout.

Edited April 13, 2017 by AMarriedMan

[The_Onceler]

I have been absent for quite a while, but wanted to post an update.

 

In the past months I had grown more certain that I would sell my house. My expectation was to downsize, or rent, but to remain in the same town. After all, we relocated here primarily for the good schools, with a plan to have the kids spend their school age years here. However, my ex became aware of my general plan, and she informed me that she wanted to move to a new town.

 

This situation is this:

 

My ex is involved with her affair partner.

His ex wife is involved with a new partner of her own.

His ex intends to remain in the town where they lived.

Their children will stay in the school system there.

He is going to move closer to the town where my ex and I live.

My ex expects to relocate to the same town as him, and to have our kids relocate with her.

I am welcome to sell my house and follow them.

The town she and he selected adds another 20 minutes to my commute, each way.

The town they selected is 45 miles from my job, 15 miles from his, 15 miles from hers.

 

This is obvisouly entirely unfair to me, disruptive for my kids, and outrageously selfish on her part. OK, so that might be just my opinion.

 

Anyway, I agreed to mediation in an effort to TRY to talk some sense into her. My feeling is, if her new man can relocate and then parent from a short distance while maintaining 50% custody, then why can't MY ex do the same, allowing my kids to remain in the schools that we chose for them, and where they have been for the last 1.5 years?

 

The kids don't want to go. I have not coached them on the matter. They knew that I was considering a new house in our town, and they repeatedly expressed that what they MOST wanted from a new house was to not have to change schools.

 

Also, it is well established fact that kids require stability. We relocated 18 months ago, then split up about 9 months ago, and now they have lost their grandmother unexpectedly. It seems to me a particularly bad time to uproot them. But all of that aside, it seems unreasonable to expect to uproot them and require me to move just to facilitate her new relationship.

 

And were I to move to the town she selected, I would have to spend at least 40 more minutes commuting each day. That will not only impact my quality of life, but it will diminish my ability to parent and be present for my kids.

 

It is funny: In checking on distances, commute times, school systems, etc. I realized that the town where I live, the town where I want my kids to remain, is equidistant between his job location and my job location. So, in my way of thinking, a "fair" compromise would be that he endure the same sort of commute as I do in order to facilitate his relationship with my ex. If he wants a relationship with her so badly, then shouldn't be be willing to split the distance with me? Why should he wind up with a 20 minute daily commute, while I wind up with a 60 minute daily commute, only AFTER having to relocate my kids (his kids don't have to relocate or change schools)?

 

Her opinion is that she intends to make a life with this new man, and while it is unfortunate to uproot our kids, the upside will be that she and her new man will be able to provide a wonderful home environment for my kids to be raised in.

 

She also insists that uprooting my kids will make them more resilient. She has gone so far as to state that I was doing my children a disservice by NOT relocating them.

 

I consulted an attorney, and then we embarked on mediation, which we are still doing. My attorney basically said that, were I to fight her in court, it could go either way, and would be hard to predict. Even with what seems to me like outrageous demands on her part, the courts are fickle and tend to favor the mother, so a judge could decide either way.

 

She also has argued that, were we to go to court, then she and I would wind up hating each other and the whole process would hurt the kids. I didn't bother to mention that I hate her already. Evidently her new man is all chummy with HIS ex and her new man. My ex wonders why she and I can't be the same way. She maintains that if I go to court to fight her on this, then *I* am the bad actor, and any resulting animosity would be MY fault. It evidently doesn't occur to her that, if we go to court, it is because she intends to relocate my kids, and I don't want them to have to do that. She is welcome to move on to a new man, but why should my kids pay the cost for her personal happiness?

 

And perhaps her new guy and his ex can be so chummy because he is not demanding that his ex relocate in order to facilitate his new relationship? Perhaps they get along better because neither of them is trying to f_ck over the other?

 

So, I was hoping to talk some sense into her in mediation. Or to possibly come up with a compromise (in our case, a location) that I could make work. She has stated that she would be willing to sign a parenting agreement that states our mutual desire to keep our kids in one school system, *if* I will agree to relocate without a fight.

 

So, I am on the fence. I might be able to get her to agree to a good town that would be not too much worse for me in terms of commute. If she signs papers stating that she will not move the kids again against my wishes, then I might go for that. But at every turn, she continues to place her needs well ahead of mine and our kids, and I find that I want to fight her just on principal alone. Plus, I know that she cannot afford the legal costs, and she herself wants to avoid such a fight.

 

But I doubt I could get her to agree through mediation to let the kids stay where we are - she might as well fight then, too. She'd have nothing to lose, except money.

 

Sorry, that was long. Thanks for letting me vent. I feel so angry all the time now, and I really have nobody to talk with aside from family. They don't always give the best, most objective feedback.

[BluesPower]

I can't really advise but I can say this...

 

A lot of lawyers don't want to go to court because they lose control.

 

However, if your guy is a good lawyer, tell him this.

 

If we hit her hard, and maybe bring up past behavior, and patters of her fickle relationships, our original agreement to stay in this school district, blah blah, blah...

 

Why not take a crap shoot at it and see what happens. Call her bluff.

 

She really screwed you over really bad, and may it is time to take a shot and see if you can knock her back on her heals a little.

 

Make her new man prove that he "loves" her enough to stay where he is at of move close to current location.

 

What is the worse that can happen? You lose and she relocates anyway? Nothing that the mediation is not going towards as it is?

 

You really have nothing to lose. And you make your lawyer and her lawyer earn their money.

 

And also, just reading this, it looks like you are still letting her push you around too much. No offense.

 

I am dealing with this same issue but just with assets and I think I am going to trial and make her put her money where her mouth is.

 

If I can prove up her domestic abuse, she may not get any alimony at all.

 

Just general thoughts.

[Mittens]

As someone who between the ages of 8 to 15 was relocated by my parents 10 times around different parts of the world (including 2 years in the third world) I would put the wishes of your children first.

 

I cannot stress how much the constant relocating affected me, and still does to this day...and I am now nearly 49. As you stated in your previous post, children want stability more than anything, and that means the same school, the same friends etc...as much as is feasibly possible once their parents have split.

 

Yes, constantly relocating did make me more resilient...but ultimately it also made me unable to make friends, extremely anxious, badly affected my schooling, I lost all extended family on both sides, and perhaps the worst, made it impossible for me to put roots down anywhere. My parents were so consumed by their own wants and wishes that they took little to no interest in the emotional lives of their children. It's horrible when you realise that your parents don't really care whether you are happy or not...

 

Long story short, try to stay where you are.

[Cephalopod]

She also has argued that, were we to go to court, then she and I would wind up hating each other and the whole process would hurt the kids. I didn't bother to mention that I hate her already. Evidently her new man is all chummy with HIS ex and her new man. My ex wonders why she and I can't be the same way. She maintains that if I go to court to fight her on this, then *I* am the bad actor, and any resulting animosity would be MY fault. It evidently doesn't occur to her that, if we go to court, it is because she intends to relocate my kids, and I don't want them to have to do that. She is welcome to move on to a new man, but why should my kids pay the cost for her personal happiness?

 

 

You don't ever bother to mention anything, and that, my friend, is the reason you are in the situation you are in.

[The_Onceler]

I can't really advise but I can say this...

 

A lot of lawyers don't want to go to court because they lose control.

 

However, if your guy is a good lawyer, tell him this.

 

If we hit her hard, and maybe bring up past behavior, and patters of her fickle relationships, our original agreement to stay in this school district, blah blah, blah...

 

Why not take a crap shoot at it and see what happens. Call her bluff.

 

She really screwed you over really bad, and may it is time to take a shot and see if you can knock her back on her heals a little.

 

Make her new man prove that he "loves" her enough to stay where he is at of move close to current location.

 

What is the worse that can happen? You lose and she relocates anyway? Nothing that the mediation is not going towards as it is?

 

You really have nothing to lose. And you make your lawyer and her lawyer earn their money.

 

And also, just reading this, it looks like you are still letting her push you around too much. No offense.

 

I am dealing with this same issue but just with assets and I think I am going to trial and make her put her money where her mouth is.

 

If I can prove up her domestic abuse, she may not get any alimony at all.

 

Just general thoughts.

 

 

Believe me, I struggle with this.

 

It essentially boils down to a simple equation, though: If we go to court and she wins, then she moves the kids to a new town that will require me to find a new job, and which is not really central to job opportunities for me.

 

So, its the classic "Bird in the hand" - I can get her to agree through mediation to move to a town that allows me to keep my job and have at least some job prospects, or risk going to court, where I might win and keep the status quo, but I might lose BIG.

 

Of course, the ONLY way to keep my kids where they are (at least until she initiates the NEXT battle) is to fight.

[The_Onceler]

As someone who between the ages of 8 to 15 was relocated by my parents 10 times around different parts of the world (including 2 years in the third world) I would put the wishes of your children first.

 

I cannot stress how much the constant relocating affected me, and still does to this day...and I am now nearly 49. As you stated in your previous post, children want stability more than anything, and that means the same school, the same friends etc...as much as is feasibly possible once their parents have split.

 

Yes, constantly relocating did make me more resilient...but ultimately it also made me unable to make friends, extremely anxious, badly affected my schooling, I lost all extended family on both sides, and perhaps the worst, made it impossible for me to put roots down anywhere. My parents were so consumed by their own wants and wishes that they took little to no interest in the emotional lives of their children. It's horrible when you realise that your parents don't really care whether you are happy or not...

 

Long story short, try to stay where you are.

 

Wow, sorry to hear about your experience.

 

Yeah, while I don't think one more move for the kids would be the end of the world, I also don't think that they should have to pay the cost for her new relationship.

 

I feel, if she wants to date a guy who lives far away, then the onus is on her.

 

But, she will never see it that way. So, again, my choices are:

 

(1) Mediation, where we agree on a town that is not terrible for me, works for her, and has good schools. And we agree to stay there.

 

(2) Court, where either we stay put, or we move to a new town which is in a terrible location for me.

 

My ex has stated that she wants the kids to grow up in one community, and remain in one school system. She agrees with me on that. She just wants to move them THIS ONE LAST TIME so she can be with her new boyfriend, and the hypocrisy and selfishness of it all does not occur to her, it seems.

[The_Onceler]

You don't ever bother to mention anything, and that, my friend, is the reason you are in the situation you are in.

 

You may be right. Or not.

 

While sitting in a mediation session, it seems hardly worth while to tell her I hate her, when I know that one of the things that she wants is for she and I to have a "good relationship".

 

I hate her, but if I want to dangle the carrot of our potential harmonious relationship, then it does me no good to let that cat out of the bag. Also, it does not facilitate the mediation session.

 

I feel I have voiced my position during mediation, and not been shy. After hearing her initial points and requests, at our second session, I opened by pointing out that she is wanting to relocate all of us for entirely selfish reasons. That relocating is bad for the kids, bad for me, bad for my career (which is bad for the kids by extension), and even bad for her (she will be farther from her own job and her own family). It serves only one purpose: to facilitate her relationship with her new man.

 

And I pointed out that, statistically, her new relationship has less than 50% chance of working out.

 

The mediator agreed with me and backed me on all my points, essentially, but it matters not. My ex is fundamentally selfish, AND she is going through a mid-life crisis, and she will not shrink from what she wants.

 

So, as I noted above, I either mediate and agree to move to a new town with good schools for the kids, and close enough to my job to allow me to effectively parent, or I risk court, where either we stay where we are, or she forces me to move to a terrible (for me) new location.

 

I guess I could get a third opinion, but the two attorneys with whom I have spoken both said the same thing: the courts favor mothers, and at best, it will be a crap shoot in court.

 

Yay.