Should I wait for the ring... or leave??

[SpringAngel83]

But what other choice does she have other than to leave right now based on the facts she has so far? It would be a bit dense of him to assume she no longer cares about marriage and is fine with the status quo. He showed himself unable even to have an honest discussion about the future of the relationship, and so she's responding to his discomfort by backing off. I think that's a much wiser approach than issuing an ultimatum or outright leaving right now. She's giving him a chance not to "put a ring on it" in a 2-month time frame, but simply to show where he is with this whole thing. He was so defensive he couldn't even talk about it, so she's doing her utmost to remove the constraints that were making him defensive (i.e., talking about it, pushing for answers). If he takes that as "problem solved" then he deserves what's coming if he doesn't step up.

Yes! This is exactly what I'm doing. I don't expect a ring by Sept 21st. I need to know we're on the same page and our futures still align.

[frus69]

Yes! This is exactly what I'm doing. I don't expect a ring by Sept 21st. I need to know we're on the same page and our futures still align.

 

Hmm what do you expect by Sept 21 then?

[Zapbasket]

Frankly, if he was a good man you wouldn't be here. He would have made his stand so clear to you that you would know what exactly you should be doing - stay or leave. Dont you think he knows that you are suffering emotionally right now due to him shutting himself off and never initiating sex? If he cared about your feelings he would have a talk with you. Is he doing that? No. He is concerned about his needs only. He would have shared his fears and insecurities with you if he was a good man... cause isn't that why we are in a relationship with someone so that we can share all our good and bad feelings with them?

I read the original post and many other posts here and if you want you can also see the obvious - there is no proposal coming your way in the near future. And suppose in future someday you get married to him... this kind of behavior will repeat. Can you put up with such uncertainty your whole life? It will kill you... and yes he does have some kind of behavior issues because normal people talk, share, are open - at least to their SO!

I understand if someone doesnt want to marry, I even understand if someone doesnt want to marry now - what I dont understand and dont like is a person who knows what you are expecting but keeps you hanging n guessing n suffering.

 

This is SPOT ON.

[lana-banana]

But what other choice does she have other than to leave right now based on the facts she has so far? It would be a bit dense of him to assume she no longer cares about marriage and is fine with the status quo. He showed himself unable even to have an honest discussion about the future of the relationship, and so she's responding to his discomfort by backing off. I think that's a much wiser approach than issuing an ultimatum or outright leaving right now. She's giving him a chance not to "put a ring on it" in a 2-month time frame, but simply to show where he is with this whole thing. He was so defensive he couldn't even talk about it, so she's doing her utmost to remove the constraints that were making him defensive (i.e., talking about it, pushing for answers). If he takes that as "problem solved" then he deserves what's coming if he doesn't step up.

 

If he has been defensive all the way leading up to this point, that's not going to change. She knows exactly "where he is with this whole thing". He told her directly her choices were either to accept the status quo or leave. By staying with him she is accepting it. This is awful for her well-being.

[SpringAngel83]

Frankly, if he was a good man you wouldn't be here. He would have made his stand so clear to you that you would know what exactly you should be doing - stay or leave. Dont you think he knows that you are suffering emotionally right now due to him shutting himself off and never initiating sex? If he cared about your feelings he would have a talk with you. Is he doing that? No. He is concerned about his needs only. He would have shared his fears and insecurities with you if he was a good man... cause isn't that why we are in a relationship with someone so that we can share all our good and bad feelings with them?

 

I'm starting to see this... it's hard because I love him so much. These two months will give me time use my head instead of my heart. See things as they are instead as I hope they will be. If he doesn't do anything I'll know. And I can start to grieve, make a plan, and move on.

[basil67]

My step mom had a baby at 44 and everything went just fine.

 

And I was in full menopause at 44. So Katie's step mom and I are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

 

SpringAngel, fertility is a highly variable thing. Some women are fertile for quite a long time. Others have their fertility drop early. Meanwhile there are a heap of women unsuccessfully pursuing the IVF route. For every older woman who has a good luck story, there's another older woman who cannot have a child.

 

I don't want to be all doom and gloom here, but as someone who stopped ovulating in her late 30's, don't make your decisions based on the fact that some women have fallen pregnant later in their fertility windows. Base your decisions on cold hard statistics.

 

Interesting article on the IVF industry and some good statistics IVF industry accused of selling false dreams to hopeful patients

[Zapbasket]

This thread is kinda sad. We have a woman who says she loves her man very much, and he is good to her. She wants to get married and have kids, stat, but the man seems hesitant, thinking that his woman cares more about marriage and kids than she does him. The advice everyone gives this woman is to leave him so that she can pursue marriage and children with someone else, which would in fact prove his theory correct. I also think OP should just leave the guy. Then, she can have her marriage and kids, and the BF can be with someone who is more interested in him than she is a wedding. Very sad indeed.

 

That's quite a lot of leaps you've made, Enigma. For one, we DON'T know what he's thinking, and neither does the OP, because he won't communicate his feelings to her. You have absolutely no insight into how he might feel and why he's dragging his feet.

 

Secondly, someone in a big rush to marry and start a family would not wait three years for a proposal. Six months to one year, tops, and if they didn't get the desired proposal by then, they'd cut and run. She's hanging on because she loves HIM. Three years is more than enough time to decide whether or not you want to marry someone, and by then, it's absolutely about the other person. Still, I don't care how much someone loves someone, nowhere in the Love Annals is it written that you should give up key components of the future you want to have because you "love" the other person. You make compromises, but with smaller things, not core values and core definitions of how a love relationship should progress.

 

I think your post needs a re-write:

 

This thread is kinda sad. We have a woman who says she loves her man very much, though he keeps her in the dark about what he ultimately wants for this relationship and for his future. She wants to get married and have kids, stat, but the man seems hesitant, for reasons he will not communicate with his love of three years despite knowing that his reticence and uncommunicativeness on this issue is hurting her. The advice everyone gives this woman is to leave him so that she can pursue marriage and children with someone else, which would in fact be the only right choice if he won't at least step up to have an honest conversation with her. I also think OP should just leave the guy. Then, she is free to find someone who is on the same page as she is regarding marriage and children, and the BF is freed from a relationship for which his actions show very little respect. Very sad indeed, but ultimately much better for the OP, because she is spending her youth lining up what she most wants in life, rather than hinging her happiness on something her boyfriend *might* do.

[SpringAngel83]

This thread is kinda sad. We have a woman who says she loves her man very much, and he is good to her. She wants to get married and have kids, stat, but the man seems hesitant, thinking that his woman cares more about marriage and kids than she does him. The advice everyone gives this woman is to leave him so that she can pursue marriage and children with someone else, which would in fact prove his theory correct. I also think OP should just leave the guy. Then, she can have her marriage and kids, and the BF can be with someone who is more interested in him than she is a wedding. Very sad indeed.

 

Enigma I'm glad to hear your view on this too. I feel that you have the Viewpoint of my boyfriend at heart and it's nice to hear something from his side. I don't feel that this post is really about whether I want him or whether I want kids or marriage more I think it's more about if I'm all in and he's not. If it were all up to me this would be a beautiful relationship. I love him I love his family I love our life. I want this life with him and I want to grow old with him.

 

I've stayed in a relationship for way too long in my past and wasted a lot of time only to find out that I was the only one trying. My ex boyfriend who I was with for 5 years (who did propose) ended up cheating on me and getting another woman pregnant. So yes I have a huge fear that I'm going to do the same with this man and lose my opportunity to have children. This is a very realistic fear as I only have a couple years left to have a healthy normal pregnancy.

 

All I'm asking for is for his Viewpoint his opinion what he wants and where he sees this going. I want to know that he's in for the Long Haul and that I'm the one he wants to spend his life with too. I choose him with all my heart. But it scares the crap out of me that he doesn't feel the same way.

 

I waited 3 years before getting into another long-term relationship after that one. I learned who I am and what I'm looking for and I thought I found everything in this man. As scary as it was I gave my all to him. So it's not just about me wanting marriage and kids. Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic but I want true love.

[frus69]

This thread is kinda sad. We have a woman who says she loves her man very much, and he is good to her. She wants to get married and have kids, stat, but the man seems hesitant, thinking that his woman cares more about marriage and kids than she does him. The advice everyone gives this woman is to leave him so that she can pursue marriage and children with someone else, which would in fact prove his theory correct. I also think OP should just leave the guy. Then, she can have her marriage and kids, and the BF can be with someone who is more interested in him than she is a wedding. Very sad indeed.

She cares about a family with kids (not a wedding and a ring), as much as she cares about him. He cares about her (debatable but let's just say he does) but not really a family and kids. Neither is wrong, just being incompatible. . You make it sound like she shouldn't put family in such a vital position as along as she has a loving man. No. He has rights to not pursue marriage, she has rights to pursue one. Nothing wrong with putting family and kids before a man. She is not wrong for doing so.

[frus69]

Enigma I'm glad to hear your view on this too. I feel that you have the Viewpoint of my boyfriend at heart and it's nice to hear something from his side. I don't feel that this post is really about whether I want him or whether I want kids or marriage more I think it's more about if I'm all in and he's not. If it were all up to me this would be a beautiful relationship. I love him I love his family I love our life. I want this life with him and I want to grow old with him.

 

I've stayed in a relationship for way too long in my past and wasted a lot of time only to find out that I was the only one trying. My ex boyfriend who I was with for 5 years (who did propose) ended up cheating on me and getting another woman pregnant. So yes I have a huge fear that I'm going to do the same with this man and lose my opportunity to have children. This is a very realistic fear as I only have a couple years left to have a healthy normal pregnancy.

 

All I'm asking for is for his Viewpoint his opinion what he wants and where he sees this going. I want to know that he's in for the Long Haul and that I'm the one he wants to spend his life with too. I choose him with all my heart. But it scares the crap out of me that he doesn't feel the same way.

 

I waited 3 years before getting into another long-term relationship after that one. I learned who I am and what I'm looking for and I thought I found everything in this man. As scary as it was I gave my all to him. So it's not just about me wanting marriage and kids. Maybe I'm a hopeless romantic but I want true love.

well I'm confused by what you want now OP. I thought you wanted family and kids ,but now you sound like you want them just as a prove that he is committed unlike your ex bf?? So if he proves he is in for the long haul, are you OK with not having kids then??

[SpringAngel83]

well I'm confused by what you want now OP. I thought you wanted family and kids ,but now you sound like you want them just as a prove that he is committed unlike your ex bf?? So if he proves he is in for the long haul, are you OK with not having kids then??

 

I want family. I'm completely over my ex. That was just giving some insight into my life.

[frus69]

I want family. I'm completely over my ex. That was just giving some insight into my life.

Sure you are over your ex, but you aren't over the fear he brought you. Is family and kids a way to show you that he's all in, for the long haul, with true love?

 

 

Some people's true love doesn't include marriage, or even kids. What if he is one of them? You can still grow old with him, just childless. Do you want that?

 

 

(Although I must say for a man who doesn't initiate sex anymore, I don't think you can grow old together)

[SpringAngel83]

Sure you are over your ex, but you aren't over the fear he brought you. Is family and kids a way to show you that he's all in, for the long haul, with true love?

 

 

Some people's true love doesn't include marriage, or even kids. What if he is one of them? You can still grow old with him, just childless. Do you want that?

 

 

(Although I must say for a man who doesn't initiate sex anymore, I don't think you can grow old together)

 

Yes I know I have some scars from my past heartbreak. I know he does too since his ex cheated too. I trust him and I know he trusts me so I believe we've gotten past a lot together in this relationship.

 

No I don't want a life without children. That's a deal breaker for me. This has been known from the very beginning of our relationship. I want to be a mom. That is what I want in my life. Always has been.

[BluEyeL]

I'm so sorry you're going through this. But I have to agree with others and urge to break up due to dude manta incompatibilities. Love is not as simple. If you don't go I don't see how this can end well. You'll become resentful and you'll eventually break up when you're much older, or he will be convinced to marry you and he will resent you for it. Either way, when a man isn't on the same page about fundamental things like marriage or kids, it cannot be overcome. If he says it's a piece of paper he just doesn't understand and clearly you're not on the same page.

 

In my own experience I had one moment in my current 2 year relationship when I doubted my partner. You know what I told myself then ? It's ok, I'll just not marry him, just live with him so I can get out at anytime without going through a divorce or until I'm sure. In hat moment I felt like I understood the guys who are not ready . They either are not ready with you, or have different goals in life. Don't have oneitis. Love shouldn't mean you abandon your life dreams . You'll love again and you'll have another chance . Don't stay with someone because you've invested time so far. You'll just waste some more until you're in you're 40s. There not just one man or one love on the planet. Find a man who wants you competely and doesn't stand to see you suffer and carry on in a situation that's comfortable just for him.

 

I am older but when I realized I wanted to marry my partner I started to get worried about him not being on the same page maybe, which would have meant breaking up because I wouldn't see a way out of such incompatibility . But I didn't have to worry for too long. I only opened my mouth one day hypothetically, I just said for the first time "what would you think about getting engaged in 6 months or so and we'll take it from there?". I didn't have to say it again, as he immediately went to a drawer and took out a family ring and proposed on the spot! I worried for nothing . That's how it should be! No convincing.

 

Go find another love that can be lasting. Hugs!

[frus69]

Yes I know I have some scars from my past heartbreak. I know he does too since his ex cheated too. I trust him and I know he trusts me so I believe we've gotten past a lot together in this relationship.

 

No I don't want a life without children. That's a deal breaker for me. This has been known from the very beginning of our relationship. I want to be a mom. That is what I want in my life. Always has been.

 

Then I also think you should leave

I do not agree with some guys here who say you should stay. They say it because they don't value marriage family and kids all that much. They think it's silly to walk away just because you aren't getting married. They think having a good man is far more important than having a family therefore, it's sad if you choose the latter. They also think if after few years it didn't work out then you break up, no big deal. But they don't understand that women can't give birth whenever they want. Ask them if their GF is stoping them from succeeding their career, would they wait till 40 to start over or will they cut the loose now?

Fundamentally they think like your BF, which is totally fine but it does not help you and won't make you happy because you want different things from them!

Also I don't agree the chance of finding another lover who also wants a family is low. Definitely not lower than waiting for your BF to change.

 

I understand if you want to wait for 2 months but I hope you stand your point and stop being indecisive

Edited July 27, 2016 by frus69

[Toodaloo]

Spring - I gotta tell you I am worried that you will be doing all the leg work again this time too...

 

Don't be your "best" self. Just be yourself. Do not bring up the whole kids and marriage thing but take the time to look and pay attention.

 

He doesn't need to be a bad man to not be in love with you. That is a "poor mans" excuse. He just may not be in love with you despite caring for you deeply. I suspect that is what this is and why you need to get out and find someone who does love you.

[cupcakesyum]

I actually had this almost exact same thing happen! I dated my husband for 5 years before he proposed. The first 2-3 years he was totally on board with getting married and starting a family. Then, when it came time to pop the question he kept putting it off. I finally got fed up and forced him to tell me what was going on. As it turns out, he was depressed and feeling a lot of pressure not just about getting married, but in general. Shortly after that he started seeing a psychologist and doing therapy. It helped tremendously! After about 9 months of therapy he felt mentally ready to propose. We've been married almost 7 years!

 

If you love him and he's willing to work through this, don't give up on him! Show him unconditional love and help him through whatever is making him feel dead inside.

If he's not willing to get help and work through it, then walk away.

[elaine567]

If he has been defensive all the way leading up to this point, that's not going to change. She knows exactly "where he is with this whole thing". He told her directly her choices were either to accept the status quo or leave. By staying with him she is accepting it. This is awful for her well-being.

 

I agree and no doubt like many men seem to do, he will think she has got that out of her system, because she is now being nice and she doesn't mention it any more = she has come round to his way of thinking.

Why wouldn't he think that though? Many women in the face of an immoveable force tend to shut up and hope that he gets it and he ultimately caves in. It is not a great strategy.

It is a catch 22, she keeps up the pressure and she is "nagging"; she stays silent and she is accepting of the status quo.

The problem here is incompatibility, there is no compromise situation possible here, she wants marriage and kids full stop.

The only power she has is to stick to her principles, state her intent clearly and if it is not working for her she needs to walk, waiting patiently and silently(so as not to rock boats) for others to change their mind, can be fruitless task.

 

Even if he does come round and agrees to get married, think very carefully before you get into a marriage with a man who never initiates sex and is "dead inside".

Those issues need addressed first.

[Gaeta]

Actually, as the OP herself said, her BF came right out and told her that he was hesitant because he thought she cared more about marriage and kids than she did him. So, it appears my insight was spot on from the beginning.

It's a passive-aggressive cop out on his part. It's his way to tell her to shut up about it and to keep status Quo. Yes she cares a great deal about having children WITH HIM and to have these children in a marriage WITH HIM. Yes for many women the visceral desire of motherhood is stronger than everything else, that's how our species has survived. Most men want marriage and children as much as women, this guy here just does not want it with OP.

 

With 70% of divorces being initiated by women, men need to be hesitant. Then he can look forward to child support and/or alimony payments indefinitely.

You need to get over this. I believe OP said they are both financially stable. These will be HIS children as much as hers. In case of divorce His financial responsibility will be proportionate to the time he puts into them. I know plenty of men paying child support through the nose because they prefer paying than to have 50-50 custody. They don't want to be bothered with school, homework, soccer practice, cooking, cleaning, laundry and hearing the kids fights on daily basis. Big complainers who think they're good dads cause they get their kids 2 weekends a month!!

[Lois_Griffin]

With 70% of divorces being initiated by women, men need to be hesitant. Then he can look forward to child support and/or alimony payments indefinitely.

Oh please.

 

One of the biggest reasons for that is that lots of men are pure cowards. They'll stay in a rotten miserable marriage because they don't have the cajones to get up and DO something about it. And a good many of them would prefer to sit on their asses and not be happy but still have that mommy to take care of them and a family to come home to rather than being on their own and fending for themselves. You'd be very wrong if you think that isn't one of the reasons men don't initiate divorces, because it IS. And many of them don't want to lose half their assets so they'll stay in a miserable marriage and martyr themselves until they die, instead.

 

The difference here is that women DO have the guts to get up and do something about it so they're the ones who initiate more divorces.

 

Just because men lack the guts to pull the plug on a failed marriage and women end up doing it more isn't ANY proof that most marriages fail because of the woman. If she's miserable enough to seek a divorce, it's usually NOT because she got there all by herself.

[BluEyeL]

Oh please.

 

One of the biggest reasons for that is that lots of men are pure cowards. They'll stay in a rotten miserable marriage because they don't have the cajones to get up and DO something about it. And a good many of them would prefer to sit on their asses and not be happy but still have that mommy to take care of them and a family to come home to rather than being on their own and fending for themselves. You'd be very wrong if you think that isn't one of the reasons men don't initiate divorces, because it IS. And many of them don't want to lose half their assets so they'll stay in a miserable marriage and martyr themselves until they die, instead.

 

The difference here is that women DO have the guts to get up and do something about it so they're the ones who initiate more divorces.

 

Just because men lack the guts to pull the plug on a failed marriage and women end up doing it more isn't ANY proof that most marriages fail because of the woman. If she's miserable enough to seek a divorce, it's usually NOT because she got there all by herself.

For what is worth, although it looks like I initiated my divorce, it was the ex who asked me to take care of the filing, like I was taking care of everything else during our marriage (any phone calls, any practical matters of any kind, in addition to all household chores and child rearing tasks). It may look like I 'initiated', but only because a woman is filing the papers it doesn't necessarily mean that she's the one who "initiated". I of course agreed but didn't initiate

 

As for this debate, it's simple a case of incompatibility in the most fundamental ways and she should absolutely walk away and find a man with whom she's compatible.

 

Men who don't want to get married or don't want to get married to their girlfriend should find a woman who doesn't want to get married also and problems are solved. It's pretty c.rappy to just string her along. If you think she doesn't want you as much as she wants marriage, also leave her alone, why cohabitate with someone who doesn't want you?

 

Being nice and shutting up is a bad idea, it's basically rewarding behavior that hurts you. So why would he change in any way when bullying you into silence seems to work?

 

Even if he agrees to marry you, I don't think it's a good idea to marry him. He wants to stay free and you want family and attachment and love. Let him go and don't waste your time and stop hoping he'll change. Find someone who isn't "dead inside" and is overjoyed to have you and your children. There are men like that. When dating again, look in a man for attributes that are conducive to a successful family.

[SevenCity]

For what is worth, although it looks like I initiated my divorce, it was the ex who asked me to take care of the filing, like I was taking care of everything else during our marriage (any phone calls, any practical matters of any kind, in addition to all household chores and child rearing tasks). It may look like I 'initiated', but only because a woman is filing the papers it doesn't necessarily mean that she's the one who "initiated". I of course agreed but didn't initiate

 

As for this debate, it's simple a case of incompatibility in the most fundamental ways and she should absolutely walk away and find a man with whom she's compatible.

 

Men who don't want to get married or don't want to get married to their girlfriend should find a woman who doesn't want to get married also and problems are solved. It's pretty c.rappy to just string her along. If you think she doesn't want you as much as she wants marriage, also leave her alone, why cohabitate with someone who doesn't want you?

 

Being nice and shutting up is a bad idea, it's basically rewarding behavior that hurts you. So why would he change in any way when bullying you into silence seems to work?

 

Even if he agrees to marry you, I don't think it's a good idea to marry him. He wants to stay free and you want family and attachment and love. Let him go and don't waste your time and stop hoping he'll change. Find someone who isn't "dead inside" and is overjoyed to have you and your children. There are men like that. When dating again, look in a man for attributes that are conducive to a successful family.

 

[]

Don't you think that it might be worth trying to stop nagging him and see how he reacts? That in his mind, she is doing EXACTLY what he fears. She is willing to bolt on a 3 year RL with someone she loves because he is not on her timetable.

 

And yes, from a guys perspective that is exactly what it is. She has done everything to prove to him that the marriage and kids are more important than he is. That's why he asked if you were planning to leave. He feels that you will bolt if you don't get what you want - ie: you don't care as much about him as you do a ring and kids. You may not say that here, you may even not feel it, but from a guys perspective that's exactly what he is hearing.

 

The 2 month deadline is too short. It will take him at least 3 weeks to recover from this feeling. And then longer than that to trust you again. And believe me, he doesn't trust you now.

 

Instead, you have to address the problems in the RL outside of your timetable. Let things be like they were. Offer to go to counseling and get a non-bias opinion. Really show him that you are invested in HIM.

 

The "easy" way is to leave. I say that in quotes because you will get many dates if you are single (as most women do) but to find a compatible match is not easy. You will also be carrying the scars from this and your prior RL. Then you meet someone you like and start talking marriage and kids too soon - how will he react? Or you say nothing and he doesn't propose at the year mark. Start all over again.

 

I don't agree with your BF shutting you out. But this is what guys do when they are nagged. Being in the RL with one foot out the door will show even if you don't think it will. If you want to leave, leave. If you want to give it a shot be 100% committed and he will see it.

Edited July 28, 2016 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Topical content retained

[elaine567]

MGet real. I don't care how many guys want to bang you, the number of truly compatible matches is very low.

 

 

She wants marriage and kids, he doesn't.

He seems to be fine with the house, the puppy, and the out of wedlock kids, he was fine with marriage "as a concept" but as soon as the OP mentioned actually getting married and making plans to get married, he shut down completely.

He also got super defensive when someone innocently asked if he was getting married, so this is not just an "angry at the OP" reaction.

 

This man doesn't want to get married and is using the silent treatment to get his own way and punish the OP at the same time.

 

HE cannot be considered compatible, surely?

[I Just Wanna b Happy]

In a high majority of situations, a man has everything to lose while the woman has everything to gain in a divorce. This is a very logical excuse as to why a man would not want to get married. If you love a man and he says "no" to marriage, what the heck is the big deal? If a man is in a relationship and the woman gives an ultimatum demanding marriage, that man needs to leave. Asap..

[joyful]

OP, would you be willing to get pregnant by the end of the year as you and your partner agreed -- without the proposal?