What about the moral MM?

[wonderingheart]

Im new here, and struggling with a situation that has become too hard to bear. I met him 3 years ago at a community function. I felt like someone zapped me with electricity the moment I saw his eyes. I was instantly awed by him, but I was a married woman, with a fairly strong moral compass. I did nothing. I avoided him like the plague.

 

He sent a Facebook friend request shortly after that and I accepted (idiocy - I know) Months would pass and we would talk on occasion, and it wasn't much of a big deal. One night at a party we were both drinking and he started messaging me playfully. The next day it came out that I was attracted to him but we were both married. For a couple more months we talked on occassion and then he said we couldn't do it anymore and we went NC. This was a cycle for many months on and off. Love, affections, feelings were never really discussed beyond a physical desire to meet, and we attempted to keep it that way. Then one night he kissed me and all my senses were gone. We both agreed to NC again, and it was hard but manageable. We would see each other out at local functions and it would stir up all the old feelings all over again and we would talk, and then back to NC. It was a painful cycle.

 

Finally the inevitable happened, we got drunk at a party and ended up having sex. It was the best sex either of us had ever had. We had agreed it shouldn't have happened and agreed it would never happen again. We were married and neither of us had any plans to leave our marriages. I have kids, he does not.

 

Not too long after that encounter I realized that the abusive, controlling marriage I was in was just out of convenience and did some soul searching. It was very hard to make the decision to leave, but we separated months after I was first with MM. There hadn't been much contact with MM as we were desperately trying to stay away from each other, but it had opened my eyes to a lot about my own life and I chose to want better for myself. My husband and I separated this spring and I have been a better woman for it.

 

He and his wife are still married. He has never told me of his plans or how he feels, or if he even wants to leave his wife. I do know that she is very emotionally abusive and keeps him "beat down" inside as to control him to some degree. This is something I have seen with my own eyes many, many times. When I saw him again recently and he was not the strong, content, happy man he was when we first met 3 years ago. He genuinely looks wrecked and stressed out. I know she drags him through hell and back because I know her. We are not friends, but I know her and have seen first hand how she can be. I feel terrible for him and his situation and knowing doesn't want to hurt her, so I stay at a distance with that.

 

Some feelings over time have made their way out, but its not the typical affair talk. There is no "I want to be with you" or any of that, no discussion of leaving spouses, he didn't even know I left mine until weeks later. After seeing him again recently I realized everything I know is in his touch, in his eyes, and in his kiss. Its insane and intense and crazy. Even though he says nothing about it, he has a hard time letting me go. We are trying to stay away from each other but it seems as time passes it is making it more and more impossible.

 

He has solid morals, and mine are not as solid as they should be after 13 years with an abusive cheating man, but I try to keep them on track as hurting someone is not something I enjoy.

 

So what about the miserable moral man who is in love with a now-separated woman? The one who doesn't discuss the discord in his marriage, the one who doesn't say how badly he wants out, the one who doesn't discuss any of it? I have not discussed the details of my marriage/separation with him as well because it is not really his problem or his business. We try so hard to get away from this but we keep getting sucked back in.

 

He is perfect. He's everything I've ever wanted, but I just cannot pursue him and try to convince him to leave his wife or be with me. I am just over here being me. Trying to get past something that I simply just can't. The way we feel has really been a topic we have avoided, its all unspoken to a degree. Some comes out, but nothing heavy or deep. It keeps it uncomplicated but it seems it gets more and more complicated the more we try to avoid those conversations.

 

I don't want to be the MOW, and I don't want him to be the MOM. I feel foolish allowing myself to get wrapped up in this but its been an extremely slow process that sort of bit me in the rear one day. I don't know what to do. We are currently in NC at the moment after recently seeing each other for the first time in a year aside from a few events we were both present at. I have no idea what to think of this very quiet and moral MM and myself, also pretty quiet, stuck in our own heads and hearts trying to get through life. I don't know what to do.

 

We don't because its wrong. Thats why. It still creeps up, but we just don't. We try so hard to keep it under control. I wish it was a typical affair of man says he leaves and he loves you and just doesn't. I think at that point it becomes clear the decision that you make. This situation I have to turn my back on the unknown and have no idea what to do! It just hurts, more than I thought it would.

[anika99]

First off I have to take most of what you say about his wife and marriage with a grain of salt. You are not an objective witness. You are seeing very tiny bits of something very large. You are taking the tiny amount of information you have about the marriage and writing it into the story you want to believe and it's the same story most OW create which goes along these lines: MM is the perfect specimen of a man who is being kept from finding true happiness with his lovely and beautiful always understanding and always loving OW because the he is trapped by a villainous horrible nasty witchy wife. OW believes that she must rescue this poor MM from the wife's evil clutches so she hangs on for years certain that someday she will snag her perfect prince of a MM.

 

Stay no contact. His marriage is none of your business. This is his problem to sort out with his wife and family. He is not perfect. He chose/chooses to cheat rather than address his problems and take some sort of action. I don't see what is so perfect or moral about that. You haven't spent enough time with him to really know much about him at all. You say the very first time you saw him you were in awe of him and then go on to say that you have never even had any real meaningful conversations with him. You are writing yourself a fairytale romance based on your massive crush on this guy.

 

What's the point of you leaving an unhappy abusive marriage just to waste your life pining for a married dude? Do you want to be happy or not? If the answer is yes then stop sabatoging yourself. Leave the married guy to his problems. Since he's so perfect I'm sure he doesn't need another woman to fix his life for him. You go live your life and create the happiness you want. The two of you don't need each other and in fact you are probably holding each other back.

[wonderingheart]

I'm not too sure you actually took the time to read (or comprehend) what I wrote. I do know this man quite well. I also specifically stated our marriages are none of the other persons business and have not been discussed.

 

I also stated that I realized that my abusive marriage was something I no longer wanted and left him, of my own reasoning, and that had nothing to do with MM. The only thing I say about his wife is what I've personally seen, she is not a nice person at all, and is abusive to him and to her friends. That's not even relevant to what's going on. I also do not feel I need to rescue him at all, I don't know how you came to that conclusion or what your point is? Your advice goes right along with what my post was about, but in a more hateful manner. I also have not "created" anything in my head or my heart. All I've done is try to avoid the entire situation but it's getting harder.

 

I also did not say we did not have any real meaningful conversations, I stated that we have never discussed leaving spouses or creating any kind of a life together, it just wasn't something we were willing to get into as it is not good for anyone.

 

Way to jump the gun on this. I'm also not trying to, waiting for, or pining after the MM I wish I could have, it's so much more complicated than that! All my effort goes into avoiding and forgetting.

[MidnightBlue1980]

 

I don't want to be the MOW, and I don't want him to be the MOM. I feel foolish allowing myself to get wrapped up in this but its been an extremely slow process that sort of bit me in the rear one day. I don't know what to do. We are currently in NC at the moment after recently seeing each other for the first time in a year aside from a few events we were both present at. I have no idea what to think of this very quiet and moral MM and myself, also pretty quiet, stuck in our own heads and hearts trying to get through life. I don't know what to do.

 

.

 

Much of your story is similar to others - I suggest you read some stories. I highlighted what jumped out at me. I'm not sure it's really called NC if you just saw him alone for the first time in a year. I readily agree you feel it's NC, but I have a suspicion that he is just going about his life and it's not the NC Herculean effort most go through when an affair ends or takes a break. This doesn't really sound like a relationship to me at all.

 

I'm sorry, I understand that you are in way deep with this guy but I feel the reason you have no idea what is in his head is that you literally do not see him for long stretches at a time. Perhaps you were so unhappy in your marriage that you invented a lot of this in your own mind. Don't get me wrong, I am sure he likes the sex, he is a man, but since you admitted he does not say I love you or even pretend to have feelings, he probably is not in anywhere as deep as you are.

 

He's far from perfect too, and you are clearly idolizing him and putting him on a pedestal as if he is some god or celebrity. You have no idea what is going on in his life or marriage and my advice, since you made the effort to separate, is to keep it that way. I've been where you are are wasted years of my life. Just move on. You are not like a lot of us, you are free. You can go online and date. Get out there and meet new people. See this guy for what he was, an exit affair.

 

And I know you are thinking, she doesn't understand what I feel. But I DO. We all do. We've been there. Which is why we know.

[startingagain15]

He's not moral?!? He actively has pursued a relationship with you, be it originally under the guise of friendship. You kissed each other, went no contact, but oh somehow ended up back in contact and had sex while drunk at a party. Yeah that's not a perfect moral man. Sorry.

 

You are dancing around each other pretending to be good and failing miserably. Either go completely no contact and forget about him, or confront him with if he is leaving his marriage and that you do not want to be the other woman and will only be with him if and when he gets divorced.

[wonderingheart]

MidnightBlue, Thank you!!

 

Yes, I do have an idea of what's in his head, I know what he's thinking, it has come out but as I mentioned we do not discuss it. It makes it hard on us when things come out In bits and pieces from both of us, but it's so hard we agreed avoid it as much as possible to hopefully make it easier to exit. I do not know what his plans for life are and whatever they are, they're his to make and none of my business. I could ask, but again it's not my life or my business.

 

It really is mutually agreed NC and I am hoping we can keep it this way. I do know many women who have felt the way I feel. That is why I am here. Others experiences may help me to get through this. It's an ongoing struggle. You are correct, it is not a relationship because we have never allowed it to progress to that point often slamming the brakes so it doesn't get out of control. When the moral mind takes over, everything comes to a screeching halt.

 

Again, thank you!

[wonderingheart]

You are dancing around each other pretending to be good and failing miserably. Either go completely no contact and forget about him, or confront him with if he is leaving his marriage and that you do not want to be the other woman and will only be with him if and when he gets divorced.

 

I love this point! It's something I have been considering if he makes contact again. Perhaps my fear of being honest has held me back from forcing his hand. I know I cannot continue this....

 

This was what I have been going over in my head. Perhaps if I put that to him, he will back off if his intentions are to remain in his marriage. I have just never asked. Maybe it's time for the hard conversation I have avoided. Maybe growing the strength to get out of an abusive marriage will also provide me the additional strength to grab the bull by the balls and get answers. I hate ultimatums, in fact I don't think I could give one if I wanted to. But I do believe a simple "as long as you're married this cannot continue" would suffice.

 

I think I'm just too passive. I have never had anything to offer to him, I'm not sure whether I do now. It's a lot to think on.

Edited July 24, 2016 by wonderingheart

[loveisanaction]

Humans have a ‘fight or flight’ tendency to protect themselves when they feel that they are in danger. It’s involuntary, not something we can control. If your married man is not fleeing from his marriage then his wife is not emotionally abusing him to the extent that he feels the need to divorce her. He has no children with her so if the emotional abuse was that severe he would have long since packed his bags and been gone. However, he is still married to her and that’s because he wants to be.

 

You and your spouse are no longer together. There has been no talk of him leaving his spouse; he now knows that you are no longer with your spouse, if he wanted to be with you he would have said something about him leaving his spouse so that the both of you can be together.

 

You seem to be more emotionally invested in this man than he is in you. He seems to have taken this for what it was; a physical attraction with a woman whom he had wonderful and passionate sex with. He doesn’t want to leave his wife, has no plans to leave her and is content being married to her.

 

I agree with you that a woman should not pursue a man, especially a married one. If your married man is not making divorce arrangements so that he can be with you it’s time for you to move on and find a man who is single and available. You said that you don’t want to be the other woman, if you continue your affair with this man that is exactly what you are going to be.

[MidnightBlue1980]

MidnightBlue, Thank you!!

 

Yes, I do have an idea of what's in his head, I know what he's thinking, it has come out but as I mentioned we do not discuss it. It makes it hard on us when things come out In bits and pieces from both of us, but it's so hard we agreed avoid it as much as possible to hopefully make it easier to exit. I do not know what his plans for life are and whatever they are, they're his to make and none of my business. I could ask, but again it's not my life or my business.

 

It really is mutually agreed NC and I am hoping we can keep it this way. I do know many women who have felt the way I feel. That is why I am here. Others experiences may help me to get through this. It's an ongoing struggle. You are correct, it is not a relationship because we have never allowed it to progress to that point often slamming the brakes so it doesn't get out of control. When the moral mind takes over, everything comes to a screeching halt.

 

Again, thank you!

 

I wasn't as good as you. I asked anything. He would have loved it for me to have been like you. I am just not as in control which is why my A ended after 5 months. I'm very intense.

 

You seem very in control so maybe it will be easier for you. It took me 7 months to get out of the pit of hell and I am just feeling better, granted I see him, so it took longer.

 

What helped me was no personal conversations, none. I also am not angry or hating him, any emotion ties me to him. I'm trying to just let go and move on. I'm not at 100%. It takes time.

 

I guess I am not as moral as you. For me it was more about what am I doing to my life. My H knew and I was going to lose everything for some guy who did not really care about it. I guess its about self-preservation.

[imperfectangel]

All respect your story reads like everyone else's. Take a look around LS and you'll see that. That's what made me realise my affair wasn't "that special". Perhaps he isn't telling you he loves you etc us because he doesn't.

 

Try to look at it from a different perspective. He has no children. He is a adult capable of making his own decisions. He knows you're single. He knows you could be together. And he's staying exactly where he wants to be

 

PS affair sex is always the best sex

[elaine567]

I am reading all this and all I see is the usual guilt ridden push/pull MM behaviour, but this time it is not interspersed with ILYs or future faking or indeed much evidence of care for the OP at all.

Sorry!

 

OP

I think, years of emotional abuse has made you perhaps see things differently. He gives you some attention, not a lot by the sounds of things, and suddenly it is the romance of the century.

He says nothing, all is yet unspoken, yet you "know" him, you "know"what he is thinking,

 

I realized everything I know is in his touch, in his eyes, and in his kiss.

Are you being serious here?

 

How can a man who never discusses his feelings, who feels so guilty he spends most of the time in NC with you, who seemingly has no intention of leaving his wife, ever be "perfect"?

[HappyAgain2014]

He's not perfect. He's conflict avoidant and wishy washy.

 

You took the huge step of getting out of your marriage. Stick with that healthy path and find a healthy relationship with a single man.

 

If you end up in a an affair with this man, you'll find you've traded the prison of your marriage for a new prison with an affair.

[wonderingheart]

I think my biggest problem is I have remained fairly quiet through all this. Had I been more assertive I would probably already know all of this. My biggest fault is that I'm a quiet and passive person. I do not seek answers or try to change anything for which I feel I have no control, I am not a controlling person and having to ask tough questions is difficult for me. One of the biggest parts of me I wish I could change. Learning how to survive an emotionally and mentally abisive marriage changed the very core of who I used to be as a strong independent woman. I was her once and I will be her again.

 

The contact was plentiful, a month on a month off. It's been aggravating and stressful.

 

One thing Ive learned in growing the strength to break away from from the restrictions I felt in my marriage is giving me insight on how to better myself and become the strong independent woman I used to me. Honestly I realize waiting around for answers is not going to get me anywhere.

 

Last contact he came out and asked me what I wanted. I buckled under that question and responded with "what do you want?!" And as he tried to get out of me what I wanted from him, I found myself paralyzed and incapable of voicing what I spent 3 long years working so hard to bury.

 

He wants to know, he's asked me before, I have always refused to get into those conversations because I feel it will lead to nowhere.

 

I'm terrified to "let the cat out of the bag" even when he asks what I want, because I can't bear the thought of either him loving me and leaving her, or loving me and pushing me away, or leading into the "one day" territory.

 

There are many reasons why it has not escalated. Im terrified of what's next!

 

The million dollar question is, when he breaks NC this time, now that I know in my heart what I really want (after time working through my own separation - without his involvement) or just keep my distance until he's figured out what he wants in his life?

 

It's all so overwhelming for someone who's so passive hiding from the truth is the easiest way to go....

[S2B]

Have a voice and speak your truth. This is something you are working on.

 

What he does about the truth you give him is his choice from there.

 

He has asked you...so be honest with him. Then ask him IF he plans to take action on that new info.

 

Be aware that words are words and if there is no action behind the words then it's all moot at that juncture.

 

IF he states he will DO the action necessary to be free from his marriage - then ask what time frame to expect. That way you're not left hanging for 5 years on empty promises.

[elaine567]

If he is asking "What do you want ?" and you are answering him with the same question, then that is obviously going nowhere.

The problem with waiting for the next time he breaks NC, is that one day he may not.

He may find another women to act as the "bridge" and transport him out of his marriage, or he may just give up on you.

[wonderingheart]

Have a voice and speak your truth. This is something you are working on.

 

What he does about the truth you give him is his choice from there.

 

He has asked you...so be honest with him. Then ask him IF he plans to take action on that new info.

 

Be aware that words are words and if there is no action behind the words then it's all moot at that juncture.

 

IF he states he will DO the action necessary to be free from his marriage - then ask what time frame to expect. That way you're not left hanging for 5 years on empty promises.

 

thank you so much! Very encouraging!!

[wonderingheart]

If he is asking "What do you want ?" and you are answering him with the same question, then that is obviously going nowhere.

The problem with waiting for the next time he breaks NC, is that one day he may not.

He may find another women to act as the "bridge" and transport him out of his marriage, or he may just give up on you.

 

Sometimes I hope he will just give up on me entirely, it would be a small (albeit painful) blessing.

 

If he finds someone else to be with, then it answers a hundred questions. That's something I wish he would have done over the past couple of years, at least then I would truly know exactly what I was.

 

He's not a serial cheater, so this situation while most ideal for me is unlikely. Why couldn't he just be scum lying serial cheater? That would undoubtedly make things so much easier!

[elaine567]

Sometimes I hope he will just give up on me entirely, it would be a small (albeit painful) blessing.

 

If he finds someone else to be with, then it answers a hundred questions. That's something I wish he would have done over the past couple of years, at least then I would truly know exactly what I was.

 

He's not a serial cheater, so this situation while most ideal for me is unlikely. Why couldn't he just be scum lying serial cheater? That would undoubtedly make things so much easier!

 

Sounds like you want rid of him, if that is the case then just tell him that.

[Chica80]

Hi OP

 

Your "story" sounds a lot like mine. I've posted in a another thread.

Short version married 9yrs. Affair last 18mo. Husband emotionally abusive. I get that part totally. It's not something people can understand unless they have been there.

It's easy to just say leave or get out. When you have been with someone so long, that is that way. You justify in your mind over and over...WELL he doesn't hit me. He is not a cheater....He is a great dad. But in the mean time...you are dying inside slowly. being killed from the inside out. You question everything. You can't decide or make decisions about anything. Nothing seems real (At least that is how it is for me)

 

For me AP was someone I admired. He was so kind and good....

I think I was looking to be saved and he wants to save the world. I think that's why we found ourselves where we did.

 

He may not be a "bad guy" he may be a "moral guy" but its not about him. What is it you want? What do you want out of this?

He asked you, now take the time to figure it out.

[elaine567]

Sometimes I hope he will just give up on me entirely, it would be a small (albeit painful) blessing.

 

If he finds someone else to be with, then it answers a hundred questions. That's something I wish he would have done over the past couple of years, at least then I would truly know exactly what I was.

 

He's not a serial cheater, so this situation while most ideal for me is unlikely. Why couldn't he just be scum lying serial cheater? That would undoubtedly make things so much easier!

 

13Hearts wrote this on another thread today.

 

Just because you have sex with someone does not mean you should live with, have a long-term relationship with, or marry them!

Maybe this applies here??

 

YOU are just out of an abusive relationship, maybe you just need to be alone for a while to gather your thoughts and to know what you really want and to find that strong independent woman again.

[MidnightBlue1980]

Sometimes I hope he will just give up on me entirely, it would be a small (albeit painful) blessing.

 

If he finds someone else to be with, then it answers a hundred questions. That's something I wish he would have done over the past couple of years, at least then I would truly know exactly what I was.

 

He's not a serial cheater, so this situation while most ideal for me is unlikely. Why couldn't he just be scum lying serial cheater? That would undoubtedly make things so much easier!

 

Again, you do not know this man. I know, I know, you say you do. I promise you, you don't. His own wife does not know what is going on. Therefore you certainly do not.

 

I thought I was really special. I thought I knew him. During our A, it was his birthday. Random women posted "I love you (name)" on his page and he wrote back "I love you too!" WTF! I defriended him that day. Was he in an A with them? Probably not. Was he throwing all his sh*t against the wall to see what stuck? Definitely.

 

You see what he wants you to see. Remember that. One day you may see the person underneath and typically it is not pretty.

 

I feel like you are being passive aggressive. Do you want him to leave his wife and be with you? If so and you have never alluded to it, and he's asking what you want, lay your cards on the table. If not, let him go and don't mess with someone's marriage if you really don't want him. Because one day he may wind up on your doorstep. Life is funny that way.

[wonderingheart]

Honestly I wish I knew if I wanted to get rid of him or be with him. I'm still so undecided. However, the fact remains that since our last encounter, I realized I am madly in love with this man, something I'd been convincing myself wasn't the case for a long time. It was a hard slap in the face. Sadly, I do miss him terribly. He was a lot of fun to talk with, pass the time. I miss that too.

 

Regardless it's all wrong and I know and accept that. That is why all the avoidance for so long. It just genuinely sucks.

 

I think you're all correct in so many ways, and I am overwhelmed by the support here. I've tried so hard to be a good woman and not the OW and I have failed multiple times. But I feel that accepting failure wasn't an option and pulled my panties up and tried again. I accept that I am human and I am flawed, but I am trying to heal and be stronger and better.

 

I WANT to heal and grow with him. But I am not seeking it nor am I dreaming of the day it happens and my dreams come true. No, I'm sitting here bitterly scolding myself over my idiocy trying to convince myself that it will never, ever be. Not because I know, but because I'm scared to ask, scared to tell him. It's so much easier to let it be a secret.

 

He was a breath shy of telling me he loved me....and I walked away.

 

I think my only answer at this point is to truly take time for me, sort out the past I have endured and find me. Maybe after I find me, I will find the ability to be more assertive and sure of giving him what he wants, the answer to his question.

 

I checked out of my marriage 7 years ago. Leaving was the easiest thing I've ever done. Something so big was so simple and easy, why is something so small, telling the MM what I feel, so incredibly difficult? Because it's wrong?

[MidnightBlue1980]

why is something so small, telling the MM what I feel, so incredibly difficult? Because it's wrong?

 

I'm going to say no. Sleeping with a married guy is wrong and that did not stop you (no judgement, same here). Maybe you are just protecting yourself, which is not a bad thing. I heard I love you a thousand times and it really only makes it worse. You seem detached and I can assure you, I'm working on detached. The opposite is hot searing pain. There is no glory in that.

[ChickiePops]

It's difficult because as much as your flowery romance novel writing protests otherwise, you're still (rightfully) not sure he feels the same way. Your story is exactly the same as 95% of other affair stories.

 

Everyone wants to believe they're the exception to the rule but it's a rule for a reason. Special snowflakes are rare. The best thing to do is walk away and never look back.

 

Also, there's no such thing as a moral MM. Yours is exactly as slimy as everyone else's. You just have him on a pedestal.

[wonderingheart]

It's difficult because as much as your flowery romance novel writing protests otherwise, you're still (rightfully) not sure he feels the same way. Your story is exactly the same as 95% of other affair stories.

 

Everyone wants to believe they're the exception to the rule but it's a rule for a reason. Special snowflakes are rare. The best thing to do is walk away and never look back.

 

Also, there's no such thing as a moral MM. Yours is exactly as slimy as everyone else's. You just have him on a pedestal.

 

I slightly disagree. The moral man will man up and stop things before they get too far. His morals are intact, but he is a flawed human and at times weakness can overpower a moral logic.

 

I'm the one who's grappling to regain my solid morals again. I had them once, my serial cheater husband twisted my moral compass. I'm working on it...