What about the moral MM?

[loveisanaction]

I'm the one who's grappling to regain my solid morals again. I had them once, my serial cheater husband twisted my moral compass. I'm working on it...

 

Your married man is doing the exact same thing your ex-husband did; cheating on his wife.

Edited July 24, 2016 by loveisanaction

[ChickiePops]

Your married man is doing the exact same thing your ex-husband did; cheating on his wife.

 

This. I'm having trouble understanding what the difference is between what MM is doing and what you're doing. He's not some good guy who got swept away. He deliberately cheated on his wife. He's no better than your ex. He's no better than any other cheater.

[sandylee1]

Why do you think he hasn't left his wife as she's such a terribly abusive woman? Why does he accept it? Have you ever asked him why he tolerates it?

 

Is it a case of him being a victim or just being a very weak man?

 

Is she mentally ill to be treating her husband and friends this way?

 

They don't have kids to keep him there? Or doesn't he think divorce is an option?

 

Leave him to his marriage and find a man who isnt another woman's husband.

[Arieswoman]

Sandylee nails it here ;

 

Why do you think he hasn't left his wife as she's such a terribly abusive woman? Why does he accept it? Have you ever asked him why he tolerates it?

 

Is it a case of him being a victim or just being a very weak man?

 

Is she mentally ill to be treating her husband and friends this way?

 

They don't have kids to keep him there? Or doesn't he think divorce is an option?

 

Leave him to his marriage and find a man who isnt another woman's husband.

 

From the other side as a BS - my exH cheated on me with a girl at work. He gave her a sob story about how unhappy he was, and what an awful marriage he had.

Never once did the silly girl ask herself ( or him, apparently ) why he was still there! We had no kids, I was working (and earning more than he did) and was capable of supporting myself. If he had really wanted that girl he would have made moves to leave. He didn't.

Like your MM he was weak and conflict avoidant.

 

Please don't be like that silly girl.

You had the strength to get out of an abusive marriage, so please, please don't get sucked into another drama.

 

Good luck x

[dubliner]

Your MM is not the man you have let yourself believe, he doesn't need to ask you what you want, how you feel, he already knows, you have been physical - called it off and still you come back for more. Your passiveness is a blessing to him. He appears to be big on avoidance, avoiding reality, avoiding responsibility , avoiding treating women with respect. He can pretend to be Mr Morals doing the 'right thing' by keeping distance, not giving you promises, not confirming feelings, not bitching about his W, this allows him to be the victim of circumstance...it was the alcohol, it was just once we won't do it again, it's not my fault, I had a weak moment, I never said this would go any further. When the ***** hits the fan you'll be thrown under the bus and reversed over.

 

Its classic conflict avoidant, cake eating MM, happy to play along as long as you are, as long as he can pass this up as a situation he is fighting against, conflicted. Start making demands and I wouldn't be surprised if he'll avoid making a firm commitment one way or the other or lace up his running shoes and be gone.

 

It takes a lot to build yourself back from an abusive relationship, it leaves you with so much self doubt, the journey back to the place where you can feel confident and have respect for you as a wothy person is a long one.

Being an AP is a type of abuse, it's self abuse, you do not show yourself respect, you allow yourself to be disrespected by the MM, it's a downward slope into the same emotional misery you pulled yourself out of. Don't waste precious years of your life in limbo with this man.

[ShatteredLady]

My husbands mistress wrote to him going on about how moral, principled & loyal he was!! I've never understood that!!

 

I'm not mean & abusive...that's a silly thing for me to say, you have no way of knowing. A friend told me that she found me "aloof" when she first met me. Maybe that's the excuse that the OW used for being complicit in destroying me & my family?!?

 

Maybe he is miserable & being abused by his wife. I just find "moral" a strange word to use when describing a MM who has committed adultery.

[wonderingheart]

Thank you to all who commented. I value the variety of opinions and support you have all provided!

[Shadowburn]

Sometimes I hope he will just give up on me entirely, it would be a small (albeit painful) blessing.

 

If he finds someone else to be with, then it answers a hundred questions. That's something I wish he would have done over the past couple of years, at least then I would truly know exactly what I was.

 

He's not a serial cheater, so this situation while most ideal for me is unlikely. Why couldn't he just be scum lying serial cheater? That would undoubtedly make things so much easier!

 

Just ask him to leave his wife for you, and he will give up on you entirely, and very quickly too.

I'll bet you $10 he'll disappear into the sunset before you'd even finish a sentence.

[pooldog]

A moral MM is an oxymoron at its most painful example!!

[elaine567]

Being an AP is a type of abuse, it's self abuse, you do not show yourself respect, you allow yourself to be disrespected by the MM, it's a downward slope into the same emotional misery you pulled yourself out of. Don't waste precious years of your life in limbo with this man.

 

Being an AP can also be a means for a damaged/hurt/abused individual to protect themselves.

They can dip their toes in the water, they can keep the MM at arm's length, they can have a "relationship" but without the strings, without the real responsibilities, without the expectations.

They can remain somewhat uninvolved, somewhat detached, as they know it is "going nowhere" and that may take some of the pressure off.

They don't need to put their heart on the chopping block, as he is never going to leave anyway and that may be fine for some as they couldn't cope with a real relationship anyway.

 

BUT many then find themselves "falling in love", as they crave the attention after years of hurt and neglect; they can then get overly dependent. The affair takes on a life of its own and it is a total catastrophe when it ends.

[sandylee1]

A moral MM is an oxymoron at its most painful example!!

 

I know.^^^^

Whenever OW talk about 'their MM' being an upstanding man of integrity, I just shake my head..... because honest moral men these days have sex with other women. It's pure madness!

[wonderingheart]

I was surprised to wake up to a message from him. Over the weekend he moved out. He finally opened up about everything going on in his head and heart, and expressed how grateful he was that I kept my distance and kept my own feelings out of it - as it allowed him to make a decision without the influence (or even really knowing) what his life would be with me when he left her. I know that everyone says he's not moral if he cheated, but even moral men make mistakes sometimes. His morals (and mine, albeit quite damaged) kept us from diving into a messy and passionate love affair, leaving a path of destruction behind. He allowed me to make my choices and I allowed him to make his. Waiting until both people are free to have those discussions and addressing those feelings is where the morals came into it all.

 

Where it goes from here, I am unsure. All I know is that we did our best to maintain a distance from each other, and in the end he chose a better life for himself away from the grips of a controlling and verbally abusive woman. We both have a lot of healing to do in exiting extremely unhealthy marriages, so jumping into something right away I feel is not the answer. I will likely continue to love him, but over here as he takes time to figure out his next steps.

 

I know my story still looks on the outside like just another man and woman stepping out on their spouses and ruining homes. The truth is we both had one foot out the door long before we met. It took time for each of us to see that being treated so poorly with various types and levels of abuse was not normal or acceptable. Whichever way it goes, I am glad that we have both managed to step away from unhealthy situations without the heavy, emotional and passionate influence of the other and decided to make a change in our lives towards happiness, whether that is together or not is okay.

[anika99]

Well that's an amazing coincidence that the very same day you signed up here he was moving out.

 

If he's really left home you are wise to keep yourself at a safe distance. Newly separated or divorced men often need at least a couple of years to recover before they can actually give themselves properly to another relationship.

[HappyAgain2014]

Moved out or spent the last couple of nights elsewhere? Many of them leave yet return rather quickly. That's assuming he actually moved out which means the discussion was had that the marriage is over versus "I need some time to myself" which means he's a game playing conflict avoider.

 

I'd wait for divorce papers before believing anything has substantially changed.

[wonderingheart]

Well that's an amazing coincidence that the very same day you signed up here he was moving out.

 

I understand you seeing it this way. What a bitter remark. I had been lurking for a while and had been reading others stories and just gained the nerve to reach out for some guidance (from all sides - accepting all that was said to me) and got what I was looking for. Reality.

 

Last week - unbeknownst to me - he asked for a divorce. I'd heard nothing about it nor had we spoken. He moved out and into an apartment over the weekend. I had no idea it was happening and did not expect nor see it coming. Signing up here, I was attempting to find my way through something that I had struggled with for some time and was seeking clarity, even if it was hard and real that was okay. It's probably a good thing I did, because it gave a fresh perspective into sides I hadn't considered and for the advice and criticism I received I will be forever grateful.

 

Yes, it was a very wild coincidence. I'm still sitting here in shock. I have yet to respond to him as I do not know how to. Time is desperately needed here, for both of us. That is something I am fully aware of.

[Ana-Iva]

Great for you OP. Happy to hear that one of these messed up situations is on the right track.

And be a bit optimistic!!! Caution is great at this point but I hope you will get to the point where you will just let go and enjoy.

x

 

I believe in love even in these situations. You never know when and where and in which situations you will find your other half.

[MidnightBlue1980]

I understand you seeing it this way. What a bitter remark. I had been lurking for a while and had been reading others stories and just gained the nerve to reach out for some guidance (from all sides - accepting all that was said to me) and got what I was looking for. Reality.

 

Last week - unbeknownst to me - he asked for a divorce. I'd heard nothing about it nor had we spoken. He moved out and into an apartment over the weekend. I had no idea it was happening and did not expect nor see it coming. Signing up here, I was attempting to find my way through something that I had struggled with for some time and was seeking clarity, even if it was hard and real that was okay. It's probably a good thing I did, because it gave a fresh perspective into sides I hadn't considered and for the advice and criticism I received I will be forever grateful.

 

Yes, it was a very wild coincidence. I'm still sitting here in shock. I have yet to respond to him as I do not know how to. Time is desperately needed here, for both of us. That is something I am fully aware of.

 

Just be supportive, be a friend and listen. Don't invite him to move in but also don't all of a sudden change and withdraw out of fear. Just keep on acting the same exact way.

[ladydesigner]

Haven't read the thread but just from reading the title... no MM is moral not one who is actively cheating that is an oxymoron!

[ladydesigner]

A moral MM is an oxymoron at its most painful example!!

 

I just said the same...beat me to it

[ladydesigner]

I was surprised to wake up to a message from him. Over the weekend he moved out. He finally opened up about everything going on in his head and heart, and expressed how grateful he was that I kept my distance and kept my own feelings out of it - as it allowed him to make a decision without the influence (or even really knowing) what his life would be with me when he left her. I know that everyone says he's not moral if he cheated, but even moral men make mistakes sometimes. His morals (and mine, albeit quite damaged) kept us from diving into a messy and passionate love affair, leaving a path of destruction behind. He allowed me to make my choices and I allowed him to make his. Waiting until both people are free to have those discussions and addressing those feelings is where the morals came into it all.

 

Where it goes from here, I am unsure. All I know is that we did our best to maintain a distance from each other, and in the end he chose a better life for himself away from the grips of a controlling and verbally abusive woman. We both have a lot of healing to do in exiting extremely unhealthy marriages, so jumping into something right away I feel is not the answer. I will likely continue to love him, but over here as he takes time to figure out his next steps.

 

I know my story still looks on the outside like just another man and woman stepping out on their spouses and ruining homes. The truth is we both had one foot out the door long before we met. It took time for each of us to see that being treated so poorly with various types and levels of abuse was not normal or acceptable. Whichever way it goes, I am glad that we have both managed to step away from unhealthy situations without the heavy, emotional and passionate influence of the other and decided to make a change in our lives towards happiness, whether that is together or not is okay.

 

Best of luck to you OP! I would be very weary of a relationship that started this way. You and your MM have poor coping skills and both of you should be in therapy.

[sandylee1]

I know that everyone says he's not moral if he cheated, but even moral men make mistakes sometimes.

 

.

Please ..... putting your penis inside a woman who isn't your wife is no mistake . You two were at it for ages until you finally went all the way. This was a clear choice.

[Lady2163]

I ended things with MM over two years ago and I really do believe he had/has some morals. There's a great line in the movie The Last Castle. It's about military prisoners. One of them was a good marine for 3 years. In five seconds, he snapped and killed someone. That makes him about 99% good troop.

 

And while MM had more than a five second oops, I still believe he has a decent moral compass.

 

I can see where the OP is coming from. I would guess a medium size town or even a small city. It sounds to me that socially they sort of orbit one another and can end up at the same group functions. While OP may not "know" the wife intimately, there's a chance see could hear gossip and anecdotes from other sources. Particularly if the wife behaves poorly.

 

OP, I'm sort of condensing the whole scenario that I want to describe next. There are circumstances in our lives which can stunt our emotional maturity. An alcoholic or drug addict often stops maturing from the time they start abusing. Where this gets scary is if you date a man around my age (around 50) who started drinking in the mid to late teens, you are almost a senior citizen, but are dealing with someone with a high school mentality.

 

I did this years ago. I was early 30s and dating a man who was early 50s. He had started drinking when he was 17 and in the military. He was very small town, very naive, very much a pampered prince growing up. I was desperate to be a people pleaser. The stuff he would pull and ask me to do. We dated for 13 months and he insisted on keeping the relationship a "secret". It was so ludicrous, everyone knew it was going on. Now, the reason to keep it a secret at first, was because he was trying to get back with his ex girlfriend. The reason to keep it a secret near the end, was he was trying to score his next girlfriend...

 

Anyway, by being in an abusve relationship, your maturity has essentially come to a halt. You don't have your voice, you don't have communication skills. You're damaged (but not damaged goods). You have over romanticized this man. Someone else mentioned overly flowery romance novel descriptions.

 

You want him to rescue you and heal you and that is a lot of weight to put on another human's shoulders, particularly if he is also coming out of an abusive situation. It sounds like you want to be dependent on another person rather than a DEPENDABLE partner on the road of life.

 

That's all kind of immature thinking.

 

It isn't that I think you're irresponsible or you don't pay your bills or anything. I just think you have a childlike view on how relationships work.

 

In an affair, you don't really have the chance to grow and learn about the person at the same speed of a regular boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. So often, your time is limited. Things are rushed. There is never enough sex. There is never enough talking, There is never enough time. An affair only gives you a brief glimpse into who this person really is.

 

I was also long distance with MM. If he were asked some strange questions, he would tell you that I was always freshly showered, always shaved, always looked nice and seemed to spend a lot of time on clothes, hair, makeup and such.

 

Meanwhile, the fact is right now my lazy ass hasn't showered in three days and I don't know the last time I bothered to shave my legs. I have changed clothes, but I'm wearing cotton granny panties, and paint spattered shorts and tank top. I suppose that is one step up from the pajamas I wore for a day and a half.

 

It takes very little effort in the scenario you've described for him to put the best version possible of himself out there to you. I don't know if you get that and this post is already long enough.

 

Besides, I should really go take a shower now. I smell bad.

[Chica80]

I ended things with MM over two years ago and I really do believe he had/has some morals. There's a great line in the movie The Last Castle. It's about military prisoners. One of them was a good marine for 3 years. In five seconds, he snapped and killed someone. That makes him about 99% good troop.

 

And while MM had more than a five second oops, I still believe he has a decent moral compass.

 

I can see where the OP is coming from. I would guess a medium size town or even a small city. It sounds to me that socially they sort of orbit one another and can end up at the same group functions. While OP may not "know" the wife intimately, there's a chance see could hear gossip and anecdotes from other sources. Particularly if the wife behaves poorly.

 

OP, I'm sort of condensing the whole scenario that I want to describe next. There are circumstances in our lives which can stunt our emotional maturity. An alcoholic or drug addict often stops maturing from the time they start abusing. Where this gets scary is if you date a man around my age (around 50) who started drinking in the mid to late teens, you are almost a senior citizen, but are dealing with someone with a high school mentality.

 

I did this years ago. I was early 30s and dating a man who was early 50s. He had started drinking when he was 17 and in the military. He was very small town, very naive, very much a pampered prince growing up. I was desperate to be a people pleaser. The stuff he would pull and ask me to do. We dated for 13 months and he insisted on keeping the relationship a "secret". It was so ludicrous, everyone knew it was going on. Now, the reason to keep it a secret at first, was because he was trying to get back with his ex girlfriend. The reason to keep it a secret near the end, was he was trying to score his next girlfriend...

 

Anyway, by being in an abusve relationship, your maturity has essentially come to a halt. You don't have your voice, you don't have communication skills. You're damaged (but not damaged goods). You have over romanticized this man. Someone else mentioned overly flowery romance novel descriptions.

 

You want him to rescue you and heal you and that is a lot of weight to put on another human's shoulders, particularly if he is also coming out of an abusive situation. It sounds like you want to be dependent on another person rather than a DEPENDABLE partner on the road of life.

 

That's all kind of immature thinking.

 

It isn't that I think you're irresponsible or you don't pay your bills or anything. I just think you have a childlike view on how relationships work.

 

In an affair, you don't really have the chance to grow and learn about the person at the same speed of a regular boyfriend/girlfriend relationship. So often, your time is limited. Things are rushed. There is never enough sex. There is never enough talking, There is never enough time. An affair only gives you a brief glimpse into who this person really is.

 

I was also long distance with MM. If he were asked some strange questions, he would tell you that I was always freshly showered, always shaved, always looked nice and seemed to spend a lot of time on clothes, hair, makeup and such.

 

Meanwhile, the fact is right now my lazy ass hasn't showered in three days and I don't know the last time I bothered to shave my legs. I have changed clothes, but I'm wearing cotton granny panties, and paint spattered shorts and tank top. I suppose that is one step up from the pajamas I wore for a day and a half.

 

It takes very little effort in the scenario you've described for him to put the best version possible of himself out there to you. I don't know if you get that and this post is already long enough.

 

Besides, I should really go take a shower now. I smell bad.

 

Very interesting perspective...This is so insightful and very helpful to my own situation....

[Lady2163]

Very interesting perspective...This is so insightful and very helpful to my own situation....

 

Sweeps a mock bow, you're very welcome. Good luck with your situation.

[Midwestmissy]

Morals can be a big grey area and very subjective. Some people would never kick a dog. Some people would kick a dog and then regret having done it. Maybe do it again another time and feel bad again, or feel so bad they'd never do it again. And some people kick the dog & don't feel a thing or care. I'm sure they each morally have strong reasons for the choices made. However we each get to choose who we spend time with and if those morals align with ours.

 

If I'm against lying and cheating, I'm not going to give a pass to someone in my life who thinks differently. That's not an authentic relationship. I can't tell myself well he lied to his wife and kids but he didn't lie to me ever so he's moral, we are all good! That's where the mental gymnastics come into play followed by the justifications. Maybe it's hard to stand up and use actions and words to not back pedal against your core beliefs. Like how most people can't shut down racist sexist or bigoted comments & jokes even if they're uncomfortable. That's a shame.