International dating. American dating is not working for me

[NewLeaf512]

So wait, you are considering moving to a place like the Philippines or Eastern Europe from San Francisco if you meet the right woman? lol

 

 

I can imagine how disappointed the women from those places would be if instead of you moving them to America you moved there. People move from second/third world countries... not to them!

 

 

Also I think you're misjudging how you'll be viewed in Eastern Europe, they are a lot more prejudiced than Americans in general. While you may think you'll look exotic to them, don't be surprised if you get a lot of hate.

 

To Roland's point here, if you Google for example "what is the ethnic diversity of Poland" you will see that less than 3% are non white and non Polish. There is a reason for that.

[RecentChange]

 

Huh, you think you can't find dates in the San Francisco Bay Area due to the color of your skin?

 

WHAT?

 

I was born and raised in the bay, live in SJ - work in SF. This is such a diverse area! I know SO MANY mixed race / mixed culture couples around here.

 

If you can't find it here, you can't find it anywhere.

 

And the people I know aren't meeting through Tinder (but I do know some who use it for hook ups).

 

What is your social circle like? What do you on the weekends? How do you get out there and meet people? There are SO MANY opportunities to socialize and meet young people in SF its crazy.

 

I can honestly say I meet a few new people every weekend. And I have dated men of various skin colors

 

Again, I don't think your complexion is your problem - what else are you bringing to the table to attract women?

 

So I can't judge but I can judge Americans.

 

Eh, I would say you aren't good at judging American women either.

 

I'm not going to mail order bride though. I'm just going for a normal date just like you would do here in America. Mail order brides happen from marriage agency websites not from a normal dating website.

 

How are you going to go on "normal dates" with someone that lives 5,000 miles away?

[CryForNoOne]

I find this to be perplexing information. I myself have been to SF at least 50 times in the past 10 years and from SF to SJ (the Bay Area) has one of the highest concentrations of highly skilled workers (tech) of "brown" people than nearly anywhere else in America, not just American born but Silicon Valley has the highest concentrations of people on H1-B visas from India over any other place in America.

 

Are you saying there are no brown people there?

 

There are more South Asians by far in the Bay Area than any other metropolitan area in the US. The Indian and Pakistani restaurants are ridiculously good too. A "brown" guy complaining about having a hard time dating in SF is like a Jew complaining about it in NYC. It's laughable...

[CryForNoOne]

 

Huh, you think you can't find dates in the San Francisco Bay Area due to the color of your skin?

 

WHAT?

 

I was born and raised in the bay, live in SJ - work in SF. This is such a diverse area! I know SO MANY mixed race / mixed culture couples around here.

 

If you can't find it here, you can't find it anywhere.

 

And the people I know aren't meeting through Tinder (but I do know some who use it for hook ups).

 

What is your social circle like? What do you on the weekends? How do you get out there and meet people? There are SO MANY opportunities to socialize and meet young people in SF its crazy.

 

I can honestly say I meet a few new people every weekend. And I have dated men of various skin colors

 

Again, I don't think your complexion is your problem - what else are you bringing to the table to attract women?

 

 

 

Eh, I would say you aren't good at judging American women either.

 

 

 

How are you going to go on "normal dates" with someone that lives 5,000 miles away?

 

Totally agree. The OP is obviously socially awkward, but I can't think of a more forgiving dating scene for that than SF. There are so many socially awkward i.e. nerdy guys who do well in the Bay Area because no other singles scene values diversity, authenticity, and brains over brawn than SF...

[NewLeaf512]

And just a little head's up for you regarding your comment about the UK..

 

Where is it that you might guess has the largest population of Indians from the entire EU? You guessed it! Jolly old England, and the highest concentration right here in London about 12 miles from my house in a part of the city called Southall.

 

Quoted from Wikipedia :

 

Southall is primarily a South Asian residential district, sometimes known as "Little India".[27][28][29][30][31] In 1950, the first group of South Asians arrived in Southall, reputedly recruited to work in a local factory owned by a former British Indian Army officer. This South Asian population grew, due to the closeness of expanding employment opportunities such as London Heathrow Airport. The most significant cultural group to settle in Southall are Asians. According to the Commission for Racial Equality, over 55% of Southall's population of 70,000 is Indian/Pakistani.[32][33] There are ten Sikh Gurdwaras in Southall. The Gurdwara Sri Guru Singh Sabha, which opened in 2003, is one of the largest Sikh gurdwaras outside India, and it won the Ealing Civic Society Architectural Award in 2003. There are two large Hindu 'Mandir' temples, the Vishnu Hindu Mandir on Lady Margaret Road and the Ram Mandir in Old Southall.

 

 

So maybe don't cross the UK off the list.

[NewLeaf512]

Totally agree. The OP is obviously socially awkward, but I can't think of a more forgiving dating scene for that than SF. There are so many socially awkward i.e. nerdy guys who do well in the Bay Area because no other singles scene values diversity, authenticity, and brains over brawn than SF...

 

^^^^^^ This to the power of 10.

[RecentChange]

Totally agree. The OP is obviously socially awkward, but I can't think of a more forgiving dating scene for that than SF. There are so many socially awkward i.e. nerdy guys who do well in the Bay Area because no other singles scene values diversity, authenticity, and brains over brawn than SF...

 

TOTALLY! Here, its normal to sit at a bar and have conversations about tech, the latest comic-con convention, and just the excitement of living and working here. Not exactly a frat house mentality.

 

My favorite pub in San Jose looks like a United Colors of Benton ad on a Friday night - and the crowd on Caltrain as I commute between the two cities? Talk about a example of diversity (well, educated, successful, and diverse).

Edited July 25, 2016 by RecentChange

[NewLeaf512]

TOTALLY! Here, its normal to sit at a bar and have conversations about tech, the latest comic-con convention, and just the excitement of living and working here. Not exactly a frat house mentality.

 

My favorite pub in San Jose looks like a United Colors of Benton ad on a Friday night - and the crowd on Caltrain as I commute between the two cities? Talk about a example of diversity (well, educated, successful, and diverse).

 

Mine is a dump called Maria Elena's that has Margaritas but the pitcher. Even I get hit on by men, women and people of indeterminate gender when I go there and I'm 46!

[RecentChange]

Mine is a dump called Maria Elena's that has Margaritas but the pitcher. Even I get hit on by men, women and people of indeterminate gender when I go there and I'm 46!

 

Oh way out in Alviso!

 

Yeah, I find it mind bogglingly easy to be social out in SJ. I avoid the "clubber" (or shiny suit as I call them) spots, but there are so many friendly cocktail lounges, brew pubs, communal bars, and other places to get out and meet people.

 

And people intermingle here, more than anywhere else I have experienced. Our skin colors def. do not stop people from all persuasions from hitting on me. Hey, if I was single.....

 

I can tell you Orange County, Ca for example is not nearly so inclusive.

[carhill]

What is RWD?

Think of it as the LS of CIS/FSU dating and mating. If you need to know what CIS and FSU mean, Google is your friend. LS is LoveShack.

 

OP, at the time I met my exW, generally local compared to half a world away, I was involved with someone from Odessa and I'll rank the choice I made in that regard among one of my most short-sighted in history, meaning the choice to drop the long distance person in favor of the local person.

 

Sure, you might fail miserably seeking a mate internationally but you also might succeed spectacularly. You never know until you try.

[joseb]

Just to make sure I wasn't talking out of my bum I consulted the US census

 

List of U.S. states by population of Asian Indians

State Asian Indian population (2010 Census) % of state's population (2010 Census)

California 528,176

 

 

California is #1 with circa 300,000 more Asian/Indians than any other state, with the larger concentration from San Francisco to San Jose.

 

I'd be curious if that census has gender in it...

 

I worked with a lot of Indians in SF, maybe 50 altogether..

I only remember one woman in that bunch.

Might explain why the OPs options are not as plentiful as that census might indicate.

[logan415]

In SF I never had any racial issues but women here go by status. The male population in SF Bay Area outnumbers female which makes it harder. I will admit there is lot to do here but dating scene is horrible. There are articles and forums about the dating culture here in SF.

 

As for the girl I been talking online to I'm planning a trip to go see her there. Spend 1 month in her county and see how we connect.

 

I feel women from Eastern Europe are less complicated and have less hang ups. For instance American women never date the nice guy. But a Russian woman would as long she feels he will treat her with respect.

 

Of course like any woman they have certain tastes and women will be women. I do feel women attitude in Russia fits me. I met several Russia women who were international students back in college and I was able to hold great and long conversations with them. But I struggle to do so with American women. Also you can cold approach Russian women without be called a creep.

[SoulCat]

I feel women from Eastern Europe are less complicated and have less hang ups. For instance American women never date the nice guy. But a Russian woman would as long she feels he will treat her with respect.

 

Of course like any woman they have certain tastes and women will be women. I do feel women attitude in Russia fits me. I met several Russia women who were international students back in college and I was able to hold great and long conversations with them. But I struggle to do so with American women. Also you can cold approach Russian women without be called a creep.

 

 

Sorry buddy but you are ripe for the picking for any Russian woman with her eye on a visa/green card, or who's looking to bag herself a 'Western' man.

 

 

Also, be aware of the fact that Russia by and large is not very tolerant of non-white people, especially outside of Moscow.

[RecentChange]

How do you know you can cold approach Russian women without being creepy? Have you been cruising the streets of Moscow?

 

There are plenty of Bay Area women who go for "nice guys" whatever that means.

 

So, what do these desirable men have that a nice guy like yourself does not?

 

As for the poster who mentioned demographics, I will give you that. The tech industry is largely male, there are some females, even of South Asian decent working in these industries but their numbers are less.

 

I know a fair number of professional women who work in the biotechnology industry, which is also booming here, ethically and gender diverse.

 

Sure, perhaps dating is a bit tough in the bay. Just like finding housing is tough, or even a seat at an up and coming restaurant. Just about every aspect of life is competitive here. If ya can't compete.....

[RecentChange]

Just checked out your thread history.

 

Your problem is not SF women, or the dating scene here, or your skin color.

 

Why didn't you ever date in highschool? College?

 

It's not American women who have caused you to be a virgin with no dating experience at 30, nor are they the cause for you to contemplate skin bleaching.

 

Have you invested in counseling? Even dating coaching?

 

I think they would be a better investment than picking up and heading to a foreign country for a month in hopes of landing a girlfriend.

 

I have no doubt that you are lacking in social skills, and that they could be improved.

 

(Btw, I found my Irish / Venezuelan ex plenty exotic. You don't need to travel to a new continent to stand out)

[carhill]

In SF I never had any racial issues but women here go by status. The male population in SF Bay Area outnumbers female which makes it harder. I will admit there is lot to do here but dating scene is horrible. There are articles and forums about the dating culture here in SF.

Dating in California can be challenging anyway. It's a very competitive and dog eat dog place and status and lifestyle are very important, generally. Great place to make money though. That's been my experience as a native here since birth.

 

As for the girl I been talking online to I'm planning a trip to go see her there. Spend 1 month in her county and see how we connect.

 

Sooner rather than later, IMO. If I was currently corresponding with a lady, I'd already have the apartment rented and plane tickets in hand and would know her mother's name so I could send her flowers and a bottle of local vodka for her father. Heh.

I feel women from Eastern Europe are less complicated and have less hang ups. For instance American women never date the nice guy. But a Russian woman would as long she feels he will treat her with respect.

 

I don't know about less 'complicated' but my impressions were the forthright ones are very open and direct and, be careful of this, passionate. Their emotions can be right out there. You won't necessarily see it in public, but whoa in private. I came to really value that, and from the men I got to know as well over time. Russian men get a lot of bad press but I wouldn't have minded keeping the male friendships even if the dating thing had fizzled, in particular the younger guys who were friends of the lady I dated from West Ukraine who worked as a lawyer for the WHO. She could travel the world freely and eventually came to the US and visited my wife and myself on one trip. Bottom line is women are women all over the world. Don't buy into thinking FSU women are like shooting fish in a barrel. You need good relationship skills to make any relationship work.

Of course like any woman they have certain tastes and women will be women.

Yep, you got it. One thing I did notice was the women who ended up as longer term interactions were very protective and frugal of my presence and assets and would often chide me for wasting, but then again they didn't like 'greedy' men either. The key was they were transparent about such matters. There was no facade, no deception.

I do feel women attitude in Russia fits me. I met several Russia women who were international students back in college and I was able to hold great and long conversations with them

Yeah, we'd often just sit around their apartments with a bunch of friends, both male and female and solve all the world's problems, from the Russian/Ukrainian perspective, of course Then again, that was back when TV was a luxury and cell phones were generally unheard of and internet at home was fuggetaboutit. Personal interaction was king.

But I struggle to do so with American women.

I'd suggest working on that, in general. You should IMO be able to easily and fluidly communicate with women. That's part of social and relationship skills. They're people just like you. Sure some are like clams but even a clam can open their shell with the right conditions.

Also you can cold approach Russian women without be called a creep.

The women I met were very traditional in that regard and expected a man to approach but were not reticent about making their desire for him obvious. IME, the first experiences I ever had with being 'accosted on the street', the term I came to use, came during trips to the FSU/CIS. On the street would be when I was out shopping or going to the theater or cinema or museums, or out eating. Situations varied but my driver, especially, was excellent at assessing and steering me away from potential problems. That brings up another issue..... if the ladies you meet/have met speak and read passable English, then interactions are much simpler. The lawyer I wrote of prior had a good command of the language, even though she thought she didn't, and greatly appreciated our interactions to occur in English as much as possible. With other women I had an interpreter I used, an older lady who worked for the government interpreting for politicians and officials. Tanya was spectacularly good at conveying emotional content and we kept in touch for many years, even after I married a local lady. If you need help with that stuff, seek it out. Ex-pats and RWD members can help.

 

It's not some panacea, rather another demographic to explore and another adventure to undertake. Leave the outcome and your expectations at the door. Live it.

[logan415]

Just checked out your thread history.

 

Your problem is not SF women, or the dating scene here, or your skin color.

 

Why didn't you ever date in highschool? College?

 

It's not American women who have caused you to be a virgin with no dating experience at 30, nor are they the cause for you to contemplate skin bleaching.

 

Have you invested in counseling? Even dating coaching?

 

I think they would be a better investment than picking up and heading to a foreign country for a month in hopes of landing a girlfriend.

 

I have no doubt that you are lacking in social skills, and that they could be improved.

 

(Btw, I found my Irish / Venezuelan ex plenty exotic. You don't need to travel to a new continent to stand out)

 

Point blank I'm just attracted to Russian women. So if I want to date Russian women I need to go to Eastern Europe to accomplish that. The Russian population in the Bay Area is too tiny.

[Els]

I agree that the problem is you. I come from one of the areas you mentioned wanting to go to, and I don't know any women who would willingly date the kind of persona you appear to be based on your posts.

 

That being said, still doesn't hurt for you to go travel. At the very least it might hopefully broaden your very narrow viewpoints and toughen you up a bit. Travel is never a bad idea.

[RecentChange]

Ahh, so now it's not about a lack of social skills, or skin color, or rejection from American women - but rather you prefer Russian women - got it.

 

Have you met any Russians besides the ones you have chatted to online that are looking for an American husband?

 

One of my good friends is Russian (born here, Russian parents - speaks the launage etc), and is young, single, and quite accomplished (great career, owns her own place) - but I don't know what it is about Russian women that you find preferable than American (besides being desperate for an American husband).

 

Sorry I am seeing a long list of excuses which you place beyond your control.

 

I still think self examination will lead you to success quicker.

[logan415]

Dating in California can be challenging anyway. It's a very competitive and dog eat dog place and status and lifestyle are very important, generally. Great place to make money though. That's been my experience as a native here since birth.

 

 

 

Sooner rather than later, IMO. If I was currently corresponding with a lady, I'd already have the apartment rented and plane tickets in hand and would know her mother's name so I could send her flowers and a bottle of local vodka for her father. Heh.

 

 

I don't know about less 'complicated' but my impressions were the forthright ones are very open and direct and, be careful of this, passionate. Their emotions can be right out there. You won't necessarily see it in public, but whoa in private. I came to really value that, and from the men I got to know as well over time. Russian men get a lot of bad press but I wouldn't have minded keeping the male friendships even if the dating thing had fizzled, in particular the younger guys who were friends of the lady I dated from West Ukraine who worked as a lawyer for the WHO. She could travel the world freely and eventually came to the US and visited my wife and myself on one trip. Bottom line is women are women all over the world. Don't buy into thinking FSU women are like shooting fish in a barrel. You need good relationship skills to make any relationship work.

Yep, you got it. One thing I did notice was the women who ended up as longer term interactions were very protective and frugal of my presence and assets and would often chide me for wasting, but then again they didn't like 'greedy' men either. The key was they were transparent about such matters. There was no facade, no deception. Yeah, we'd often just sit around their apartments with a bunch of friends, both male and female and solve all the world's problems, from the Russian/Ukrainian perspective, of course Then again, that was back when TV was a luxury and cell phones were generally unheard of and internet at home was fuggetaboutit. Personal interaction was king. I'd suggest working on that, in general. You should IMO be able to easily and fluidly communicate with women. That's part of social and relationship skills. They're people just like you. Sure some are like clams but even a clam can open their shell with the right conditions. The women I met were very traditional in that regard and expected a man to approach but were not reticent about making their desire for him obvious. IME, the first experiences I ever had with being 'accosted on the street', the term I came to use, came during trips to the FSU/CIS. On the street would be when I was out shopping or going to the theater or cinema or museums, or out eating. Situations varied but my driver, especially, was excellent at assessing and steering me away from potential problems. That brings up another issue..... if the ladies you meet/have met speak and read passable English, then interactions are much simpler. The lawyer I wrote of prior had a good command of the language, even though she thought she didn't, and greatly appreciated our interactions to occur in English as much as possible. With other women I had an interpreter I used, an older lady who worked for the government interpreting for politicians and officials. Tanya was spectacularly good at conveying emotional content and we kept in touch for many years, even after I married a local lady. If you need help with that stuff, seek it out. Ex-pats and RWD members can help.

 

It's not some panacea, rather another demographic to explore and another adventure to undertake. Leave the outcome and your expectations at the door. Live it.

 

Thanks for a great informative post and I do agree with you about CA. Dating life is pretty tough. California women have very tough standards and if you don't meet them you are out of luck. Every woman has standards I realize but I feel women not only in Russia but other places are not as strict. The girl I'm talking to she told me her father and mother name. Its amazing we both have fathers that has the same name.

[logan415]

Ahh, so now it's not about a lack of social skills, or skin color, or rejection from American women - but rather you prefer Russian women - got it.

 

Have you met any Russians besides the ones you have chatted to online that are looking for an American husband?

 

One of my good friends is Russian (born here, Russian parents - speaks the launage etc), and is young, single, and quite accomplished (great career, owns her own place) - but I don't know what it is about Russian women that you find preferable than American (besides being desperate for an American husband).

 

Sorry I am seeing a long list of excuses which you place beyond your control.

 

I still think self examination will lead you to success quicker.

 

Yes I have been around a Russian woman who was a international student during my college years. She was bi but she had a girlfriend at the time so I obviously could not make any move to asking for a date.

 

I like Russian women because they seem direct and don't have such strict social standards. Girls from here I would get the "aww your nice guy." Friend zoned. Or I will get "I like you like a brother or cousin". Again friend zoned. I think these repetitive patterns makes any guy want to try and date women elsewhere. Those same girls I tried to ask out I seen them with other guys but they were the bad type and aggressive type of guy. I'm not that kind of guy. So that is why I have a huge problem with dating in America. Lot of American women are attractive as most women have origins from Europe but they been brought up in a different culture. I'm basically left out because I don't meet the standards that women here look for and want. I'm okay with that but it just means I will look elsewhere.

Edited July 26, 2016 by logan415

[carhill]

If you haven't already, read up on Americans, and as appropriate Americans of your ethnicity, traveling to the FSU/CIS. There's official stuff, like from our government, as well as informal stuff like travel reviews and forum posts. This is a difficult and turbulent time in world affairs, very different than the post-Communist turbulence of the new independent states I visited back when I was dating internationally.

 

Oh, another aspect, heh, politics The ladies I dated were very outspoken about politics and world affairs and I saw, with differing demographics, marked disparity. Using two examples, the doctor I dated had been a doctor in the Soviet Army and she hated the end of Communism because it upset her family's life and lifestyle and generally plunged them into poverty. OTOH, the lawyer I dated from a part of Ukraine (near Poland) which greatly resisted Communism loved the newfound freedom and was pro-democracy and pro-free market. Location and about 17 years (age) separated the two, with the doctor being older. I saw similar dichotomies with other non-romantic associations. We'd get the vodka flowing, with wine for the ladies and, heh, where did the night go?

 

If you really do enjoy the culture, I suggest visiting during one of their holiday periods when 'fun' is on the front burner and there's a party atmosphere. My most memorable was experiencing one year two Christmases and two New Years, due to the difference in calendars. Had more gifts to buy but whoa was it a lot of fun and IMO there's no substitute for walking hand in hand with a lady you like in the snow with the lights twinkling and the warmth of her apartment, or yours, beckoning. I can still hear the bell of the tram that passed by my apartment at all hours except the dead of night, and chuckle at using the window ledge of the 17th century building it was in for my refrigerator. All that for the princely sum of 7 dollars a night

[Versacehottie]

In SF I never had any racial issues but women here go by status. The male population in SF Bay Area outnumbers female which makes it harder. I will admit there is lot to do here but dating scene is horrible. There are articles and forums about the dating culture here in SF.

 

As for the girl I been talking online to I'm planning a trip to go see her there. Spend 1 month in her county and see how we connect.

 

I feel women from Eastern Europe are less complicated and have less hang ups. For instance American women never date the nice guy. But a Russian woman would as long she feels he will treat her with respect.

 

Of course like any woman they have certain tastes and women will be women. I do feel women attitude in Russia fits me. I met several Russia women who were international students back in college and I was able to hold great and long conversations with them. But I struggle to do so with American women. Also you can cold approach Russian women without be called a creep.

 

wow! so many absolutes, black and white statements in what you are saying. I have many very close friends there in SF. I am here to tell you that yes they DO date nice guys. They may respond to status because they are smart girls and do well themselves--so maybe they just like other equally smart guys with open attitudes. You're background when you described your ethnicity sounded like it could be a lovely mix and attractive--one I'm pretty sure, lots of people wouldn't have a problem with at all in that city.

 

So what are you bringing to the table? A closed-mind and chip on your shoulder is NOT gonna do the trick in SF, sorry. Also I can't tell if you want a woman who doesn't speak her mind or think for herself, because if you do and that's why you are seeking a foreign woman, yeah those are probably a little scarce in SF--women there are pretty independent, which is why they want a guy to bring something to the table. Just saying.

[Versacehottie]

Point blank I'm just attracted to Russian women. So if I want to date Russian women I need to go to Eastern Europe to accomplish that. The Russian population in the Bay Area is too tiny.

 

ohhhh, well there are a decent amount of russian people in LA. a good amount! And tech jobs.

 

I do agree strongly with whoever said that i don't think the Russian women in Russia who would be dating you probably have in mind that you will move there and they won't get to move here. Probably not what they would be expecting.

 

I think summing up an entire group of people based on the things you are deducing is a bit simple-minded and a mistake but I guess you will just have to find out yourself and report back.

 

To be honest, if I was one of those women, I might be a little annoyed if I found out the reason for your selection process. You know, people generally like to be seen as individuals not a culture or the reasons you are seeking these ladies out. I think just the tip to try to see a woman as who she is for real would help you with your dating.

[carhill]

I do agree strongly with whoever said that i don't think the Russian women in Russia who would be dating you probably have in mind that you will move there and they won't get to move here. Probably not what they would be expecting.

 

IME, the women I dated would have preferred not to leave their families and friends and move abroad but were willing to make that sacrifice. I tested this by expressing the willingness to ex-pat and live and work in their locale, something I can and could easily do. Of course, green card scammers would scurry away. In particular, the doctor I dated was ecstatic at that revelation because her children and grandchildren were there and she wouldn't have to battle her exH over taking her minor daughter remaining at home away from the country. Had things continued with her it's very likely I would have moved to Odessa and would have never encountered LS in the first place.

 

Given the economic and travel changes in the interim, I would expect many FSU women to be far less enamored of economic/social advantages of moving to the west, whether Europe or the US, rather more being like Melania Trump, developing their own lives and immigrating as they saw fit for their own reasons and through their own power rather than because a man wanted to K1 them.

 

If the OP was a woman seeking to date men internationally, my advice would be similar, even if she had plenty of men wishing to date her locally. If it's something felt strongly about, IMO it's worth exploring.