Stopped looking= much happier

[ZA Dater]

The difference lies between "like" and "like"

 

If there is one true thing, each of us craves the feeling of mutual like.

 

 

Some find it and others chase and never find it.

[Cupid's Puppet]

This is disheartening. I strongly suggest getting into a social setting with as many women as possible, get your butt a little drunk, and let this happen.

 

I don't advise drinking to be help socialize, but I think you need a jumpstart on this. I think (as I've experienced it too) that you need your inhibitions and mindset to be put aside with a little liquid courage.

 

She doesn't have to be a 10 or "the one." She just has to break the ice.

 

What would be the point of this? The OP seems like a guy who wants a meaningful kiss not a drunken kiss. Do most guys just want a physical relationship with a woman or just check some boxes? If so, I for sure need to adopt the OP's position and simply give up.

[SoThatHappened]

The point is obvious: He's 32 and just needs that ice broken. It seems to be affecting his socializing skills because he has that hanging over him.

 

After he gets through it, it won't be hindering him anymore (hopefully).

 

Guys/girls can want just the physical or something meaningful. It's not gender-specific.

 

I'm just trying to help ZA out because I think his lack of experience (actually kissing a girl) is hurting him, and getting that out of the way will help him down the road.

[ZA Dater]

The point is obvious: He's 32 and just needs that ice broken. It seems to be affecting his socializing skills because he has that hanging over him.

 

After he gets through it, it won't be hindering him anymore (hopefully).

 

Guys/girls can want just the physical or something meaningful. It's not gender-specific.

 

I'm just trying to help ZA out because I think his lack of experience (actually kissing a girl) is hurting him, and getting that out of the way will help him down the road.

 

I think things only affect one if you let them get to you. Yes, this is an issue but its not the be all and end all. Undoubtedly having that experience would benefit me but its not something I am going to give away for the sake of having that experience.

 

By my own admission I don't really seem to have the same "taste" as most other guys so realistically finding that person who likes me and who I like is probably harder than picking the lottery numbers.

 

For me life has become about feeling good about something, each day I just find that thing to feel good about, it might be anything but its improved the way I exist, its easy to get lost in the mire of being lonely being 32yo and never woken up next to anyone. Never bought a girlfriend a gift, never been on holiday with a girlfriend, never taken one to a movie. Ok, I'll stop you get the idea.

 

The bottom line, I'd ultimately like to experience all of the above but not for the sake of experiencing it, the experience has to mean something.

 

I have made peace with the fact I might never find any of this.

[SoThatHappened]

If you don't take chances/advice and/or do something different, you'll keep getting the same results.

 

I have no more to contribute. It's on you if you decide to never experience a kiss, date, sex, etc.

[AceCutty]

This is actually all due in part that women are being too picky for their own good. That no one is good enough.

 

Here's an article that explains that, and it shows how single men are categorized, esp. the aforementioned "opting out" which was due to the overly picky women turning down these men all the time:

 

Are today?s women too picky for their own good?

 

Thing is women are not being too picky if they are getting what they want (which most of them are).

 

It's very easy for today's women and they know it (either consciously or subconsciously). They don't have to do anything to attract men. Men have to do all of the work.

 

The guys that opt out are the ones that, like OP, are frustrated with rejection or just being treated like crap by women. So basically, women don't want them anyway.

 

I'm close to opting out too. I attract some women, but I'm not traditionally attractive. So it's far more difficult for me. I'm very career-oriented and I just don't have time for what is, in essence, a second career of trying to convince a woman to date me and stay with me.

[AceCutty]

This is disheartening. I strongly suggest getting into a social setting with as many women as possible, get your butt a little drunk, and let this happen.

 

I don't advise drinking to be help socialize, but I think you need a jumpstart on this. I think (as I've experienced it too) that you need your inhibitions and mindset to be put aside with a little liquid courage.

 

She doesn't have to be a 10 or "the one." She just has to break the ice.

 

This is what I think OP should do. Push himself to go to bars and talk to people. Get laid a few times.

 

I'm in OP's shoes right now, except that I've dated women and slept with many.

 

Once you've spent some time with women, you can either determine whether most are too much of a headache to deal with or whether it's worth it.

[ZA Dater]

This is what I think OP should do. Push himself to go to bars and talk to people. Get laid a few times.

 

I'm in OP's shoes right now, except that I've dated women and slept with many.

 

Once you've spent some time with women, you can either determine whether most are too much of a headache to deal with or whether it's worth it.

 

Again I actually thought about this and tried it a few times, the problem is and was I cant relate to those sorts of people, firstly I don't drink so already people look at me like I am from Mars, I don't dance either and there is just no topic of discussion but most of all I cant flirt.

 

 

All of that used to bother me, I used to beat myself up about it and it caused years of feeling really bad about myself.

 

 

Some of it does still bother me, I am lonely but I don't think I am the sort of guy who can simply go and pick up somebody random. What I find attractive rules that out completely, for me its about a complete package rather than one stand out feature.

 

 

I can truthfully say I have never had anyone (I found attractive) express any interest in me at all, now I am getting female attention from a friend, just a few mails here and there and we do some writing together and its really great to get that attention, feels good and has done a lot to erase the horrid feeling of the past.

 

 

As I said, one can see the positive or one can see the negative in any situation, sure I doesn't feel great to be heading toward 33 and never having been kissed, never mind had anything else but I guess there are others worse off. I am slim, athletic, I think articulate, I have achieved a few things I am happy and proud of and ultimately what I crave is someone to share those things with, which I have to an extent now, even if I cant be the all encompassing relationship I want, its a heck of a lot better scraping the pot that is OLD.

 

 

My own friends cant understand why I don't chase sex, its simple, I am shy and if I am going to go there it simply has to be with someone I want to be with, rather than some random person I care nothing for.

 

 

Each of us make a choice, to feel happy, sad, content or indifferent and what each of us sometimes doesn't realise is how we project that, I projected poorly for years and in doing so I ruined any chance I had with anyone I remotely liked, a whole three people in my case. I can cry over that or just accept it, ultimately its easier to just accept it and try to make something work with that I have now, which ultimately will be extremely hard or next to impossible.

 

 

What I want hasn't changed, the degree of want hasn't changed but perhaps the self pity is gone, perhaps some of the self loathing has gone and perhaps there is some, perhaps misguided belief I can get what I desire. Yes, this is akin to building a house on a marsh because I know if one thing goes wrong this entire house will come crashing down and I am under no illusion as to how absolutely awful that will feel.

 

 

I'd love someone great to be interested in me, unfortunately I cant make people like me, trying to do so is exhausting and ultimately fruitless.

[ZA Dater]

If you don't take chances/advice and/or do something different, you'll keep getting the same results.

 

I have no more to contribute. It's on you if you decide to never experience a kiss, date, sex, etc.

 

Its just easier to do nothing to be honest. I feel immensely better not spending hours on OLD sites hoping to find something I might like, spending hours on Tinder hoping someone likes me.

 

 

I am tired after years of getting nowhere and this is me just resting, I don't have much inclination to go back that searching. I'd rather try make success out of other areas of life, ones I have direct control over rather than dating where I am at the mercy of whatever dictates who is attractive or not. If I get dressed up, its for me, not because I want to try and hope someone articulate intelligent will notice me.

 

 

What should I try different?

 

 

As with everything one decides what one can live with and what one cannot live with, I crave affection and love as much as everyone else but the search for it has been so bruising its got to the point where in my mind the ends don't justify the means.

 

 

Everything I do I give to others that's me, there are lots of ladies that know if they ever need help or anything I will be there, they don't see me as a date, none are romantically interested in me. They respect me and sing my praises but none are interested. That fact on its own is quite telling.

 

 

I choose to tell myself I am good person and have the ability to contribute and no matter what try to find positive.

 

 

Its just sad I seem destined to never have some experiences most people get before they are 20.

[AceCutty]

Again I actually thought about this and tried it a few times, the problem is and was I cant relate to those sorts of people, firstly I don't drink so already people look at me like I am from Mars, I don't dance either and there is just no topic of discussion but most of all I cant flirt.

 

The thing that you need to understand about western women is that they typically like very similar things. If you are not good-looking (and it sounds like you're not), then you'll need to have a certain personality that will attract them. That personality needs to be fun, interesting, outgoing, and confident.

 

These are things that you can develop. If you really want to solve this problem, you can, but it's going to require a ton of work.

 

I'm not saying that it's fair because it isn't. Women don't need to change anything ever to get a man. Good-looking men don't need to change anything either.

 

But average and below average-looking men absolutely need the four characteristics that I listed above.

 

All of that used to bother me, I used to beat myself up about it and it caused years of feeling really bad about myself.

 

This is just my opinion, but I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I think our society is the issue and you are simply not naturally attractive to women in our society. You don't conform to the current standards, either through your looks or personality.

 

Nothing wrong with that, but if you want it to change, then you need to change it.

 

Some of it does still bother me, I am lonely but I don't think I am the sort of guy who can simply go and pick up somebody random. What I find attractive rules that out completely, for me its about a complete package rather than one stand out feature.

 

 

I can truthfully say I have never had anyone (I found attractive) express any interest in me at all, now I am getting female attention from a friend, just a few mails here and there and we do some writing together and its really great to get that attention, feels good and has done a lot to erase the horrid feeling of the past.

 

 

As I said, one can see the positive or one can see the negative in any situation, sure I doesn't feel great to be heading toward 33 and never having been kissed, never mind had anything else but I guess there are others worse off. I am slim, athletic, I think articulate, I have achieved a few things I am happy and proud of and ultimately what I crave is someone to share those things with, which I have to an extent now, even if I cant be the all encompassing relationship I want, its a heck of a lot better scraping the pot that is OLD.

 

 

My own friends cant understand why I don't chase sex, its simple, I am shy and if I am going to go there it simply has to be with someone I want to be with, rather than some random person I care nothing for.

 

 

Each of us make a choice, to feel happy, sad, content or indifferent and what each of us sometimes doesn't realise is how we project that, I projected poorly for years and in doing so I ruined any chance I had with anyone I remotely liked, a whole three people in my case. I can cry over that or just accept it, ultimately its easier to just accept it and try to make something work with that I have now, which ultimately will be extremely hard or next to impossible.

 

 

What I want hasn't changed, the degree of want hasn't changed but perhaps the self pity is gone, perhaps some of the self loathing has gone and perhaps there is some, perhaps misguided belief I can get what I desire. Yes, this is akin to building a house on a marsh because I know if one thing goes wrong this entire house will come crashing down and I am under no illusion as to how absolutely awful that will feel.

 

 

I'd love someone great to be interested in me, unfortunately I cant make people like me, trying to do so is exhausting and ultimately fruitless.

 

Again, you do not conform to the ideals of our society. If you want to be successful, either make an effort to conform or go to other societies that are more accepting of men that are average or below average looking men who are also introverts.

 

My caution with this is that you can easily be conned by these women. I recommend getting some experience in the western world first. Then go to a third world country once you have a better understanding of women and some confidence.

[ZA Dater]

The thing that you need to understand about western women is that they typically like very similar things. If you are not good-looking (and it sounds like you're not), then you'll need to have a certain personality that will attract them. That personality needs to be fun, interesting, outgoing, and confident.

 

These are things that you can develop. If you really want to solve this problem, you can, but it's going to require a ton of work.

 

I'm not saying that it's fair because it isn't. Women don't need to change anything ever to get a man. Good-looking men don't need to change anything either.

 

But average and below average-looking men absolutely need the four characteristics that I listed above.

 

 

 

This is just my opinion, but I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I think our society is the issue and you are simply not naturally attractive to women in our society. You don't conform to the current standards, either through your looks or personality.

 

Nothing wrong with that, but if you want it to change, then you need to change it.

 

 

 

Again, you do not conform to the ideals of our society. If you want to be successful, either make an effort to conform or go to other societies that are more accepting of men that are average or below average looking men who are also introverts.

 

My caution with this is that you can easily be conned by these women. I recommend getting some experience in the western world first. Then go to a third world country once you have a better understanding of women and some confidence.

 

I think I am above average looking in terms of build, I work out, try keep fit, am on the skinny/slim side.

 

I don't have a very fun personality, I can be confident in certain situations, it evaporates in a bar or a club. Interesting sure, I might be that, have diverse non main stream interests, have a nice list of achievements (not that I ever rattle these off)

 

Sure, I clearly am not naturally attractive, its a tough thing to live with but based on my success I guess its true. As I have said before I am not interested in conforming and selling out my identify for a "what if" scenario where someone MAY like me.

 

I don't see many upsides in that scenario and when I did try it I just felt terrible 99.9% of the time.

 

I happen to live in a third world country.....

 

At the end of the day we all have our own identity and I am not going to hide mine, try change mined in the hope someone might be interested in a generic person who is just like everyone else.

 

If that's what is required I'd rather just focus on work, writing and my interests in life.

[normal person]

At the end of the day we all have our own identity and I am not going to hide mine, try change mined in the hope someone might be interested in a generic person who is just like everyone else.

 

If that's what is required I'd rather just focus on work, writing and my interests in life.

 

I don't think it's necessary to "hide your identity." But at the end of the day, pretty much everyone has to compromise something if they want to be appealing enough. Whether it be some combination of time, effort, comfort, or anything of the sort.

 

Most people wouldn't work if they didn't feel like they had to, to some extent.

Most people wouldn't push themselves through discomfort if they didn't feel like they had to, to some extent.

Most people wouldn't go to the gym if they didn't feel like they had to, to some extent.

Most people wouldn't wear respectable, age-appropriate clothes if they didn't feel like they had to, to some extent.

 

I've got to say, I can attribute a large amount of my success to just "sucking it up" and putting the effort and energy to get the things I want. That in turn made me more happy and confident than I was, that made me more appealing, etc. Now, the "maintenance" of just making sure my business is doing great, going to the gym constantly, eating well, etc doesn't feel like a chore anymore. It just feels like a reinvestment of the dividends of a rich, fulfilling life. If you just tough it out for a while, pay attention, and do what's necessary, you may reach a point where it was all worth it because you got what you wanted and more.

 

It's a little silly to think we're inherently "fine." Everyone could use some improvements and some steps outside of their comfort zone. Sure, there's a lot to be said for not doing things that make you unhappy, but there's also a lot to be said for doing uncomfortable things if they'll afford you the things that will make you as happy as you can be.

[JuneJulySeptember]

The thing that you need to understand about western women is that they typically like very similar things. If you are not good-looking (and it sounds like you're not), then you'll need to have a certain personality that will attract them. That personality needs to be fun, interesting, outgoing, and confident.

 

These are things that you can develop. If you really want to solve this problem, you can, but it's going to require a ton of work.

 

 

Most people don't really ever change their personality. I work with a gang of different people who have personalities ranging from outgoing persons who absolutely dominate the conversation at lunchtime, to quietly witty, sarcastic persons, to those who are 'nice guys' and basically speak when they are spoken to.

 

I can tell that they were all they way they are since they were in high school ... at least.

[LookAtThisPOst]

That personality needs to be fun, interesting, outgoing, and confident.

 

Thing is, a lot of these are simply subjective, not objective.

 

Define "Fun"? What's fun to one woman, may not be fun to another.

 

Define "Interesting" a VERY broad adjective, again subjective. What may be interesting to one person, may not be so much to another. I.e. - One person thought a movie was fun an interesting, but others would think it sucked big time.

[SoThatHappened]

Wow... saying fun, interesting and confident are subjective? Really? What other excuses can you come up with?

 

Everyone knows what "fun" is, means, and looks like. The guy sitting in the corner of the bar/party/get-together not saying a word... he's not fun.

 

The guy or girl smiling, laughing, telling jokes, making friends... he/she is fun.

 

Everyone can tell the difference between a confident person and an introvert who can't look past his own shoes.

 

Everyone can generally tell if a person is interesting. There are absolutely boring and uninteresting people everywhere, and there are magnetic interesting people everywhere.

 

To say that these things are subjective is a cop-out in my opinion.

 

I used to be an introvert in big groups. When I saw that doesn't help with socializing, I started at least faking like I was extroverted. Eventually, I ganed the CONFIDENCE to be more FUN and INTERESTING.

 

Stop complaining and making excuses, take off your dress, and go get what you want. Change, fake it, whatever...

 

You'll regret the things you DIDN'T DO a lot more than the things you DID when you look back on your life... trust me.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Wow... saying fun, interesting and confident are subjective? Really? What other excuses can you come up with?

 

I have no idea where you put this in the category of an "excuse", when I'm simply stating a fact and...it's an quite obvious one at that.

 

To some, getting drunk off their ass is "fun", to me, it's not and I cannot relate to those people. In fact, at parties, I tend to avoid them and go off to the other crowd that's rather modest in their intake. I also cannot share those "fun" stories of middle-aged adults and their drinking experiences that they thought was "fun".

 

Some would bust my chops for not being a heavy drinker. I didn't care.

 

I'm hardly a wall flower, as I am a social person, but the above just an example. I had to leave a Meetup group as they are a bunch of alcoholics that do beer crawls and boating.

 

take off your dress

Now THAT'S a cop-out as your'e automatically labeling without anything to back it up. "Fake it"? You're F**king kidding me? Edited August 18, 2016 by LookAtThisPOst

[SoThatHappened]

Eh, arguing against someone making EXCUSES for them not having success is usually pointless, but I'm hoping ZA gets something out of this.

 

Stating that being fun, interesting, and confident are subjective is a cop-out. At a minimum, it's just an EXCUSE as to why you're failing at dating or any other area of life.

 

Fake it 'til you make it is a well known tool that MANY people use in MANY areas of their life. How many times do you have to fake it at your job until you have success?

 

Out of school, you don't know a damn thing about the real world work-force. When you say you don't know how to do something, clients don't go to you for any additional work.

 

On the flip side, you can fake that you know what you're talking about, do research, and come back with an educated answer.

 

Fake it until you make it. A proven technique.

 

You can continue to say, "Oh that group only likes fun, interesting, and confident people. I'm all those things, but I don't have to prove that to them. I'll just go home, write on LoveShack and complain."

 

OR, you can say, "Screw it. I'm tired of not getting anywhere. What I'm doing just isn't working. I'm going to engage those people (or that girl) and TRY SOMETHING. At least I'll learn or grow more confidence for the next time this opportunity arises."

 

Also, I didn't bring up a single thing about drinking or getting drunk in my post above. Saying, "I cannot relate to those people" because they get drunk is another EXCUSE.

 

You don't have to be drunk to socialize with a drinker. Trust me, I've been one of the few sober people at hundreds of parties, and always found a way to interact with the drinkers.

 

If you find that certain meetups or events aren't your thing because they're all "alcoholics", then find another group activity.

 

Stop making excuses.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Stop making excuses.

 

I'm still trying to figure out why you consider this an "excuse", but that's your opinion and they are like a**holes, everybody has one.

 

Fake it until you make it. A proven technique.

 

Well, in the work place, it was "practice makes perfect" or "baptism by fire". Basically, you make a few mistakes learning the task, until you get it right.

 

The whole "fake" thing is disingenuous.

 

If you find that certain meetups or events aren't your thing because they're all "alcoholics", then find another group activity.

 

And I did, and I was proving to you the subjectivity of how THEY considered THAT "fun".

 

And again reinforces what's considered fun for some may not be for others.

 

Trust me, I've been one of the few sober people at hundreds of parties, and always found a way to interact with the drinkers.

 

Not sure why you would, but hey...if you're into it, go for it. That's not how I roll.

 

It's about compatibility and having similar ways of doing things.

 

Also, I didn't bring up a single thing about drinking or getting drunk in my post above. Saying, "I cannot relate to those people" because they get drunk is another EXCUSE.

 

Again with the "Excuse" thing...what's with you, seriously? You keep trying to beat that into the ground. You keep saying it, repeatedly, as if it means something.

Edited August 18, 2016 by LookAtThisPOst

[SoThatHappened]

Fair enough, and I don't want to hijack this - mainly wanting to help ZA.

 

I'll just say that sometimes in order to be successful and get what you want out of life, you have to do things like:

 

- go outside your comfort zone

- do things that are foreign to your conventional thinking

- put yourself out there

- try new things

- be uncomfortable (to help with experience)

- accept that people are different than you, but that doesn't mean you can't interact

 

If you're not willing to do some of these things, you're going to likely get the same results you've been getting... and it's no one's fault but your own. Blaming people/society/genders/personalities isn't doing you any good.

 

Good luck, ZA and LATP. I wish you luck

[LookAtThisPOst]

Fair enough, and I don't want to hijack this - mainly wanting to help ZA.

 

I'll just say that sometimes in order to be successful and get what you want out of life, you have to do things like:

 

- go outside your comfort zone

- do things that are foreign to your conventional thinking

- put yourself out there

- try new things

- be uncomfortable (to help with experience)

- accept that people are different than you, but that doesn't mean you can't interact

 

If you're not willing to do some of these things, you're going to likely get the same results you've been getting... and it's no one's fault but your own. Blaming people/society/genders/personalities isn't doing you any good.

 

Good luck, ZA and LATP. I wish you luck

 

Thank you, STH :-) Much apprec.

[Inflikted]

Wow... saying fun, interesting and confident are subjective? Really? What other excuses can you come up with?

 

Everyone knows what "fun" is, means, and looks like. The guy sitting in the corner of the bar/party/get-together not saying a word... he's not fun.

 

The guy or girl smiling, laughing, telling jokes, making friends... he/she is fun.

 

Everyone can tell the difference between a confident person and an introvert who can't look past his own shoes.

 

Everyone can generally tell if a person is interesting. There are absolutely boring and uninteresting people everywhere, and there are magnetic interesting people everywhere.

 

To say that these things are subjective is a cop-out in my opinion.

 

I used to be an introvert in big groups. When I saw that doesn't help with socializing, I started at least faking like I was extroverted. Eventually, I ganed the CONFIDENCE to be more FUN and INTERESTING.

 

Stop complaining and making excuses, take off your dress, and go get what you want. Change, fake it, whatever...

 

You'll regret the things you DIDN'T DO a lot more than the things you DID when you look back on your life... trust me.

 

The thing is, not everyone can just flip that switch inside themselves. For some people, it's not as simple as going "Oh, I can't connect with people because I'm this way, so instead, I'll just be a different way!".

 

I used to know a guy, for example, who was much more outgoing and successful with socializing and dating than I'll ever be, and he was aware of my "people" problems. He always told me about how he used to be shy and alone, and then one day he just said "I'm not doing this anymore", and his whole world changed, and blah blah blah blah blah. Unfortunately, it's not that simple.

 

For some of us, we just are who we are. You might as well tell a short person to just be taller, or tell a blind person to just start seeing again. Not all of a person's "programming" can be changed.

 

As far as the whole "fake it til you make it" thing goes, I've never really understood that, myself. If I knew how to be different/ better than who I am, I would just BE that, I wouldn't have to "fake it". How can one "fake" being something if they don't truly understand how to be that thing?

[SoThatHappened]

I wouldn't say it's a switch that gets flipped. It's more like a decision that one makes to try and change or improve his/her situation. That decision can lead to changes that happen gradually. It's worked for me and I'm sure many others.

 

Have you ever faked knowing what you're doing in order to not look like an idiot?

 

Have you ever faked like you're interested in what someone is saying even though they're going on and on and on about something you couldn't care less about?

 

Have you ever faked not being afraid when inside you were about to sht yourself?

 

Women get to fake a ton of things about their appearance (high heels, push-up bras, makeup, weaves, fake eyelashes, colored contacts, ... spanx!).

 

Why can't you "fake" a few things to help you out?

 

Sorry ladies... I love ya

[Inflikted]

Have you ever faked knowing what you're doing in order to not look like an idiot?

 

I have not. In those scenarios, I just end up "looking like an idiot", because I don't know what I'm doing and can't even comprehend how to "fake it".

 

Have you ever faked like you're interested in what someone is saying even though they're going on and on and on about something you couldn't care less about?

 

Not really. I'll typically just listen and nod, but I don't fake anything more than that.

 

Have you ever faked not being afraid when inside you were about to sht yourself?

 

Not that I can think of? I don't tend to get that "afraid" of anything, more likely, I'll get stressed out or anxious about something, and I typically don't do a good job of covering that up.

 

Women get to fake a ton of things about their appearance (high heels, push-up bras, makeup, weaves, fake eyelashes, colored contacts, ... spanx!).

 

Why can't you "fake" a few things to help you out?

 

Sorry ladies... I love ya

 

Eh. The stuff you listed there for women isn't "mental", though. That's all physical, which is comparatively much easier to do.

[normal person]

For some of us, we just are who we are. You might as well tell a short person to just be taller, or tell a blind person to just start seeing again. Not all of a person's "programming" can be changed.

 

Within this analogy, height and sight are hardware problems, not programming issues. You can't "learn" to be tall or see, but you can learn, or program, yourself to act differently. If you take the sum of your experiences and observations and analyze them, you can figure out why certain things lead to success and why others don't. You can figure out ways to mimic successful behaviors, attitudes, and actions. You can learn formulas and patterns to be interesting, engaging, funny, exciting, mysterious, etc. Why is one song really popular, but not another? Maybe it has a great melody, lyrics, beat, chord progression, thematic message, production, instrumentation, etc. It isn't just "random." If you study all those individual elements and how to create them, maybe you can write a great song that people will enjoy just as much.

 

The bottom line is, people don't like or dislike other peoples' personalities for no reason. Everything you do or don't do shares peoples' perceptions of you somehow. You can observe and learn from your mistakes about the nuances and mechanisms that make people like others and apply them to your own interactions. It's really not that hard.

 

Who is more appealing? A person who sits in the corner and says nothing and appears indifferent, or a gregarious, charming person who's interested in what people have to say, offers his/her own unique, diverse, interesting opinions, stories, thoughts, and forms emotional bonds with others through inquiries, interest, shared experiences, etc? Think about how you feel when someone charming talks to you and what they say and why it makes you feel what you do. Then, apply the same sort of formula to your own interactions.

 

For an elementary example, there's a big difference between:

1). "I like your blouse," and

2). "That's a really interesting blouse. What I love about it is that it makes you look like some bohemian poet who vacations in Marrakech or something, haha. I wish I could pull off something like that but it wouldn't mesh well with the office vibe. But you're kind of free spirit, aren't you?"

 

In 1, you get very little information, or grounds to make people feel good, or form a connection. In 2, you're getting the person to warm to you by flattering them a bit (which people like), acknowledging their individuality (which people like because it shows you're paying very focused attention to them), offering a little info about yourself too (so it doesn't sound like a one-sided conversation where you're just kissing ass), and asking them to talk about themselves more (which people like, and will hopefully lead to a topic that you can bond over).

 

Now see, this is not rocket science. It's a formula that can be learned if you just extrapolate the pleasant, positive, affective aspects of human interactions you've had, think about why they were so good, and replicate them yourself elsewhere with the intention of having an enjoyable interaction with someone else because it's fun to socialize and learn about other people. What kind of conversations and interactions make you feel good? Do that to other people.

 

As far as the whole "fake it til you make it" thing goes, I've never really understood that, myself. If I knew how to be different/ better than who I am, I would just BE that, I wouldn't have to "fake it". How can one "fake" being something if they don't truly understand how to be that thing?

 

Well, now you know.

Edited August 18, 2016 by normal person

[ZA Dater]

I don't think it's necessary to "hide your identity." But at the end of the day, pretty much everyone has to compromise something if they want to be appealing enough. Whether it be some combination of time, effort, comfort, or anything of the sort.

 

Most people wouldn't work if they didn't feel like they had to, to some extent.

Most people wouldn't push themselves through discomfort if they didn't feel like they had to, to some extent.

Most people wouldn't go to the gym if they didn't feel like they had to, to some extent.

Most people wouldn't wear respectable, age-appropriate clothes if they didn't feel like they had to, to some extent.

 

I've got to say, I can attribute a large amount of my success to just "sucking it up" and putting the effort and energy to get the things I want. That in turn made me more happy and confident than I was, that made me more appealing, etc. Now, the "maintenance" of just making sure my business is doing great, going to the gym constantly, eating well, etc doesn't feel like a chore anymore. It just feels like a reinvestment of the dividends of a rich, fulfilling life. If you just tough it out for a while, pay attention, and do what's necessary, you may reach a point where it was all worth it because you got what you wanted and more.

 

It's a little silly to think we're inherently "fine." Everyone could use some improvements and some steps outside of their comfort zone. Sure, there's a lot to be said for not doing things that make you unhappy, but there's also a lot to be said for doing uncomfortable things if they'll afford you the things that will make you as happy as you can be.

 

 

Thought provoking.

 

I think it just depends on the individuals want to compromise and what they will and wont compromise on. My experience is the compromises have not been worth it in my particular instance, I have to accept the limitations I have, rather than try and blindly do things I know don't fit me. I used to go to clubs and bars for an example, those environments don't work for me but I persisted and at the end of the day I just felt worse and worse so decided not to bother with those two places.

 

Agreed, effort and doing things to get what you want but do you not sometimes think the end is not worth the means? Why put yourself through things if you know deep down you aren't going to get what you want?

 

In reality I meet people who tough it out in life in general and still don't really get anywhere so to say that's all one needs to do is overly simplistic in my opinion. What you have is the confidence to reinvest because you have has the success that makes the reinvestment worth while. I am not going to invest in stocks that tank and then keep investing in the same hoping I may make money. If you don't have that initial success then its extremely hard to reinvest anything. I'd say this statement pretty much categorises me and many other unsuccessful guys on this forum.

 

I agree and disagree with the bold. Agree, not doing things which make you unhappy but truthfully the entire dating process made me extremely unhappy. The loneliness I have now is not great but its not half as bad as the unhappiness I felt when I went on date after date and nobody liked me. Or I went on dates with people I didn't like and they liked me, basically just felt worthless if that's the best I can attract.

 

IF, if is a dangerous word, I am sure I and others would do things if we were assured of some success but there are no assurances in life and for me again I simply wouldn't know where to start, I think I am good enough to date, nobody I want seems to think so.

 

I'd like things to be different, I'd have liked some success but metaphorically I am standing on quay watching the boat sail away. I am just trying to enjoy the sunset.