Stopped looking= much happier

[Inflikted]

Within this analogy, height and sight are hardware problems, not programming issues. You can't "learn" to be tall or see, but you can learn, or program, yourself to act differently.

 

What I'm saying, though, is that a person's mind or personality can be as difficult/ impossible to change as a "hardware problem". Not everyone can just figure out what they're doing wrong, figure out how to be different, and then actually BE different. To an extent, we just are who we are at our very core, and if we, at our very core, are not good enough for or not capable of connecting with another person, then there's not really any changing that.

 

Now see, this is not rocket science. It's a formula that can be learned if you just extrapolate the pleasant, positive, affective aspects of human interactions you've had, think about why they were so good, and replicate them yourself elsewhere with the intention of having an enjoyable interaction with someone else because it's fun to socialize and learn about other people. What kind of conversations and interactions make you feel good? Do that to other people.

 

It may not be "rocket science", but it's also not as simple as you make it out to be, either. I've been around people, for several years, that are good at connecting and talking up other people, and I've tried to observe, understand, and learn, so as to apply that to my own life. But in practice, when I'm face to face with someone, my mind just doesn't work that way. I see and understand why others are successful and why they're good at it, but place me in a setting with another person, and I can't think of things to say or things to keep a conversation flowing, or anything like that.

 

In other words, it's not a lack of information or a lack of understanding. It's simply that my brain doesn't work the same way as other people do when I'm placed in a social situation.

 

Well, now you know.

 

No, I really don't.

[BluEyeL]

The problem is that everyone, men and women are all competing for the top 10% of mates and put too much weight on looks. You have to understand your 'market value' and how unimportant looks are and you'll do better. The "women" you are referring to as picky are the "hot" or at least "moderately hot" women. "No fatties need apply".

[normal person]

What I'm saying, though, is that a person's mind or personality can be as difficult/ impossible to change as a "hardware problem". Not everyone can just figure out what they're doing wrong, figure out how to be different, and then actually BE different. To an extent, we just are who we are at our very core, and if we, at our very core, are not good enough for or not capable of connecting with another person, then there's not really any changing that.

 

I can tell you why two plus two equals four. You can then apply that to real life and say if you have two apples, and you find another two, you have four. Hopefully, you have a sufficient understand the meaning of "two-ness."

 

Now, let's say I tell you've got a great, refreshing, sincerity to you, and then I ask you how you feel about that. If the response is positive -- like you appreciate the thought that I noticed that about you and appreciate it myself -- hopefully you can store that little experience somewhere and learn that in humans, receiving compliments and encouragement has a correlation to feeling good and bonding. Then, hopefully, you can take that knowledge and apply it elsewhere. If you don't have learning mechanism to do that, I'm not sure what to tell you. It's just taking something learned and applying it. I don't know much about education or methodology, so this is the simplest way I can break it down.

 

It may not be "rocket science", but it's also not as simple as you make it out to be, either. I've been around people, for several years, that are good at connecting and talking up other people, and I've tried to observe, understand, and learn, so as to apply that to my own life. But in practice, when I'm face to face with someone, my mind just doesn't work that way. I see and understand why others are successful and why they're good at it, but place me in a setting with another person, and I can't think of things to say or things to keep a conversation flowing, or anything like that.

 

So go in with a plan. I would suggest exploring your natural curiosities that you have about people. Surely there are a lot -- every person you meet is a complete mystery to you and probably has a very interesting story to tell. Hopefully you have some inclination to learn about other people, because hopefully, you find the mystery of other peoples' lives inherently interesting. You can even follow a formula -- ask people about themselves, why they do the things they do, how they feel about them, and offer your own opinions, tales, thoughts, feelings, etc in order to form a connection. You might be a little sloppy with it but people will appreciate the effort you're putting in to learn about them.

 

In other words, it's not a lack of information or a lack of understanding. It's simply that my brain doesn't work the same way as other people do when I'm placed in a social situation.

 

Consider the suggestion above. I don't even think this is a "learning" issue. I've laid out a pretty good map. All you have to do is remember it, and then apply it.

[ZA Dater]

I can tell you why two plus two equals four. You can then apply that to real life and say if you have two apples, and you find another two, you have four. Hopefully, you have a sufficient understand the meaning of "two-ness."

 

Now, let's say I tell you've got a great, refreshing, sincerity to you, and then I ask you how you feel about that. If the response is positive -- like you appreciate the thought that I noticed that about you and appreciate it myself -- hopefully you can store that little experience somewhere and learn that in humans, receiving compliments and encouragement has a correlation to feeling good and bonding. Then, hopefully, you can take that knowledge and apply it elsewhere. If you don't have learning mechanism to do that, I'm not sure what to tell you. It's just taking something learned and applying it. I don't know much about education or methodology, so this is the simplest way I can break it down.

 

 

 

So go in with a plan. I would suggest exploring your natural curiosities that you have about people. Surely there are a lot -- every person you meet is a complete mystery to you and probably has a very interesting story to tell. Hopefully you have some inclination to learn about other people, because hopefully, you find the mystery of other peoples' lives inherently interesting. You can even follow a formula -- ask people about themselves, why they do the things they do, how they feel about them, and offer your own opinions, tales, thoughts, feelings, etc in order to form a connection. You might be a little sloppy with it but people will appreciate the effort you're putting in to learn about them.

 

 

 

Consider the suggestion above. I don't even think this is a "learning" issue. I've laid out a pretty good map. All you have to do is remember it, and then apply it.

 

This is interesting to think about.

 

 

I get what you are saying but in reality you need a sustained amount of time with a person to be able to use this tactic, this isn't going to work with someone random, in fact I'd wager it wont work if you are an introvert.

 

 

My experience lately is I have a friend, she isn't single but the only real way I have to make her feel great, really be thankful for everything she does for me over a few months this has made her open up to me a bit, I wouldn't say we are super friends but what you say does make sense.

 

 

However, I think its application is limited if one doesn't really feel anything towards to the person to begin with, what I mean is the compliments must be sincere, people spot fakery a mile away.

 

 

Sure you can ask people about themselves but it becomes incredibly tiring when they take NO interest in YOU. I have only had one date which wanted to know anything about me, people are self centred, by an large they simply aren't interested in others, I choose to take interest in those around me which makes me foreign.

 

 

I actually don't have much inclination to learn about people in the context of dating because I know I am never going to be someone who interests them. Said friend is a case in point, we work superbly well, compliment each other perfectly, she gets my humour, I get her fancy vocab, she volunteers lots of info but asks nothing about me, am I interested in learning about her, yes and no. Yes because I like her and no because its never going to go where I want it to.

 

 

Yes people do appreciate interest but when they don't reciprocate that interest and you have spent year with such a scenario then yes its easy to question the fundamentals somewhat.

 

 

I'd wager ALL unsuccessful guys who have never had any luck NEVER got any meaningful female attention. I'll admit, it, its something I crave, when I am with said friend I get a bit of attention and it feels great because I feel something. I'd also wager this lack of attention is the very root of social awkwardness, the very reason unsuccessful guys will likely remain so.

[ZA Dater]

The problem is that everyone, men and women are all competing for the top 10% of mates and put too much weight on looks. You have to understand your 'market value' and how unimportant looks are and you'll do better. The "women" you are referring to as picky are the "hot" or at least "moderately hot" women. "No fatties need apply".

 

It hurts me to type this but unfortunately for the most part ones value seems defined by ones looks and that is true to an extent. There is a massive proviso to this and I only add this for context, I am 5.9, slim, runner/swimmer physique and I have never had any success. A lady I studies with is really over weight, she never has problems finding relationships at all.

 

 

In the context of that I think where ones life gets up ended is when you meet someone who ticks the intellectual, personality box and the looks box and when I say looks I don't mean a model, the looks that just radiates with you.

 

 

I think respect to women, they are all picky irrespective of looks I sometimes wish I knew what criteria certain women used to land up with the truly unappreciative guys they have as boyfriends.

 

 

Once again peace comes from within. When you find a semblance of that life becomes a bit better, albeit no less lonely.

[ZA Dater]

Eh, arguing against someone making EXCUSES for them not having success is usually pointless, but I'm hoping ZA gets something out of this.

 

Stating that being fun, interesting, and confident are subjective is a cop-out. At a minimum, it's just an EXCUSE as to why you're failing at dating or any other area of life.

 

Fake it 'til you make it is a well known tool that MANY people use in MANY areas of their life. How many times do you have to fake it at your job until you have success?

 

Out of school, you don't know a damn thing about the real world work-force. When you say you don't know how to do something, clients don't go to you for any additional work.

 

On the flip side, you can fake that you know what you're talking about, do research, and come back with an educated answer.

 

Fake it until you make it. A proven technique.

 

You can continue to say, "Oh that group only likes fun, interesting, and confident people. I'm all those things, but I don't have to prove that to them. I'll just go home, write on LoveShack and complain."

 

OR, you can say, "Screw it. I'm tired of not getting anywhere. What I'm doing just isn't working. I'm going to engage those people (or that girl) and TRY SOMETHING. At least I'll learn or grow more confidence for the next time this opportunity arises."

 

Also, I didn't bring up a single thing about drinking or getting drunk in my post above. Saying, "I cannot relate to those people" because they get drunk is another EXCUSE.

 

You don't have to be drunk to socialize with a drinker. Trust me, I've been one of the few sober people at hundreds of parties, and always found a way to interact with the drinkers.

 

If you find that certain meetups or events aren't your thing because they're all "alcoholics", then find another group activity.

 

Stop making excuses.

 

I read this post a few times.

 

 

I disagree with much you say here because what you advocate is that people willingly partake in things they don't enjoy for the sake of finding a date. That's nonsensical to me.

 

 

In addition you seem to advocate that people pretend to be false in order to fit in, fine that works for some people, I have seen it but I am simply not prepared to do that.

 

 

As someone who doesn't drink I can tell you I have been shunned many, many times for it, so telling me its not an impediment is simply not true based on my own experience.

 

 

Based on your posts here my assumption is you have had a fair amount of success. Which is good, I understand what you are saying, really I do but the bad for me at dating really over shadows any good, the tiny slithers there were.

 

 

I'd love to have what others have experienced but I am not selling out my beliefs to get it ,nor am I changing what I find attractive. I'd rather have a fantastic idea in my mind than have to settle for a substandard reality.

[SoThatHappened]

ZA, I think we will just agree that we see things differently. And that's fine.

 

I don't understand how faking a little interest or trying something different is "selling out" your beliefs. But, hey, I'm not going to argue that anymore.

 

I understand that not drinking can create an invisible barrier between you and others who drink. I've found ways around it, so I know it can be done.

 

Yes, I've had success, because I was willing to get outside of my bubble, "feign" interest here and there, and put some fears aside.

 

Honestly, it's unbelievable how a simple act (going outside your comfort zone) can snowball.

 

Example:

I struck up a conversation with one of the most attractive women I've ever seen (who is bartender in another state). She ended up taking me to private parties, dinners, and to meet even more of her super hot friends. And believe me, I'm not a 10. I'm 5'8" and 140 pounds soaking wet. I'd be 125 if I didn't work my but off to keep muscle on me (I have the metabolism of a hummingbird on crack).

 

I still keep in touch with her, 2 years later. She still invites me out to see her, and is planning on coming out to see me and do some skiing.

 

Is she attracted to me? Couldn't tell you and really couldn't care less. Last time we talked she was engaged. The point is I wouldn't have had that experience if I didn't work up the courage to ask her a question.

 

Did I really care how she answered any of the questions I asked? Nope. I feigned some interest in her hobbies and asked questions about them.

 

My point is, it's worked for me and it can be as simple and easy as what I've been preaching over and over.

 

But, I'm hopefully done preaching and really do hope you find what you're looking for.

[normal person]

This is interesting to think about.

I get what you are saying but in reality you need a sustained amount of time with a person to be able to use this tactic, this isn't going to work with someone random, in fact I'd wager it wont work if you are an introvert.

 

It willwork with someone random. You were a total stranger to everyone in your life until you met them. You developed close relationships with some through this process or something similar. You're right, you can't do it in one minute unless you're a pro. But you can get the ball rolling pretty well. If you meet someone anywhere, you can keep snowballing the conversation and see what happens. I was tempted to do it just a few hours ago with a girl who works at the store I was in, but I was in a rush.

 

Also, this isn't the only tactic. There are a few ways of making an impression on people, this is just the standard. Sometimes it's fun to set a tone right out of the gate so your presence has an impact, and will get peoples' curiosities about you piqued. You can just have some fun with it.

 

Once in a while when I get introduced to a girl I might take her hand, kiss it, affect a fake French accent, and say "ahh, Mon Cheri!" It's usually good for a laugh.

 

Another time I might say something like, "Oh, so you're the girl who (did very embarrassing thing)" and she'll act all confused and then you let her know that you're just playing around.

 

There are countless ways to make an impact and turn the wheels on peoples' sense of fun, humor, excitement, etc. You likely won't get there by doing nothing. So while you say "it won't work if you're introverted," I have to correct you and say it won't work if you act introverted. Everyone is capable talking and being personable whether not they want to admit it, or try. If you can speak, you can do it, even if you have to prepare a line or something like that. "Introversion" isn't really an excuse, all that means is that you have a predisposition to act a certain way. And a predisposition isn't the law or some physical force. But you might have to step out of your comfort zone. I fall somewhere in the middle of the introversion/extroversion scale. With people I want to talk to, I'm very gregarious. With people I don't want to talk to, I shut up and can't wait to leave. I flip it on and off.

 

Sure you can ask people about themselves but it becomes incredibly tiring when they take NO interest in YOU. I have only had one date which wanted to know anything about me, people are self centred, by an large they simply aren't interested in others, I choose to take interest in those around me which makes me foreign.

 

That's sort of an anomaly. Someone who goes out with you should at least have a baseline interest in your, if they don't care to know anything, they're the ones missing out. I would say that's the exception rather than the rule. I can only think of one time something like that happened to me, and I think she was just too young (23 or so).

 

I actually don't have much inclination to learn about people in the context of dating because I know I am never going to be someone who interests them.

 

Self defeating attitude.

 

Yes people do appreciate interest but when they don't reciprocate that interest and you have spent year with such a scenario then yes its easy to question the fundamentals somewhat.

 

If it takes a year of rejections from a girl to convince yourself that she doesn't like you, perhaps it's not "the fundamentals" that need questioning.

[Sally_Creatively]

I don't honestly think by not actively looking for someone that you are giving up. I think that by enjoying your life and doing things that you love that you show the world a better side of yourself. A happy, more positive version of you. When you are constantly on the prowl, you tend to get that look of desperation on you. People can sense that desperation and it can be unappealing.

 

Now I am not saying just give up. Just go out and enjoy and love yourself. This will attract the right person to you.

[Inflikted]

I can tell you why two plus two equals four. You can then apply that to real life and say if you have two apples, and you find another two, you have four. Hopefully, you have a sufficient understand the meaning of "two-ness."

 

Now, let's say I tell you've got a great, refreshing, sincerity to you, and then I ask you how you feel about that. If the response is positive -- like you appreciate the thought that I noticed that about you and appreciate it myself -- hopefully you can store that little experience somewhere and learn that in humans, receiving compliments and encouragement has a correlation to feeling good and bonding. Then, hopefully, you can take that knowledge and apply it elsewhere. If you don't have learning mechanism to do that, I'm not sure what to tell you. It's just taking something learned and applying it. I don't know much about education or methodology, so this is the simplest way I can break it down.

 

I, myself, tend to not like receiving compliments. To me, it's just awkward, and I don't really know how to respond. But, thankfully, I'm almost never complimented about anything, so it's not something I ever really have to deal with.

 

Again, though, I don't deny that I'm "weird" or "unusual" in this regard. Like I said, I've seen plenty of people over the course of my life that are good at being social and connecting with people and developing relationships with people, but I can't seem to apply that to my own life and my own interactions with people. Any time I try to, I just feel like I'm being awkward and making the other person uncomfortable, and it doesn't work out for me. That's just who I am. I'm awkward. I'm socially inept. I don't connect well. It's not for a lack of practice, or a lack of exposure, or a lack of knowledge. I just... can't make it work for myself.

 

And while I'm admittedly "unusual" in that regard, I can't imagine I'm the only one that is like this. In my experience, people who aren't this way can't really relate to those of us that are. In your eyes, we're just being "lazy" or "afraid" or whatever. But we're not. We're just programmed differently, and connecting with people doesn't "compute" with us the same as it does for a normal person.

 

So go in with a plan. I would suggest exploring your natural curiosities that you have about people. Surely there are a lot -- every person you meet is a complete mystery to you and probably has a very interesting story to tell. Hopefully you have some inclination to learn about other people, because hopefully, you find the mystery of other peoples' lives inherently interesting. You can even follow a formula -- ask people about themselves, why they do the things they do, how they feel about them, and offer your own opinions, tales, thoughts, feelings, etc in order to form a connection. You might be a little sloppy with it but people will appreciate the effort you're putting in to learn about them.

 

And when you're an extreme introvert that has no "curiosities" about the lives of people around you? Me, I don't tend to wonder much about the lives of people around me beyond the actual interactions I have with them. I don't mean that in a malicious kind of "I don't care" way, but rather in a "it's just not something that I wonder about" kind of "I don't care". For the most part, I'm not really fascinated by people, and I don't have much of an interest in learning about their lives that I'm not particularly curious about to begin with.

[OldSoulBiz]

May I suggest an alternative? I can't say I understand your decision, but why don't you LookAtThisPOst, and do what I do:

 

This is actually all due in part that women are being too picky for their own good. That no one is good enough.

 

Here's an article that explains that, and it shows how single men are categorized, esp. the aforementioned "opting out" which was due to the overly picky women turning down these men all the time:

 

Are today?s women too picky for their own good?

 

I have asked girls out consistently over the past 10 years, and like everyone, have been turned down here and there. What you need to do is to brush off the rejection as "it's her loss, not mine."

 

I am completely confident of myself and what I can offer, and if a girl turns me down for whatever reason she had, I take it as her probably being too picky (like maybe she likes men without beards etc. Which believe it or not, women like that actually exist).

 

Don't know if you'll ever see this post, but to whoever does, hope this helps.

Edited August 20, 2016 by OldSoulBiz

[normal person]

I, myself, tend to not like receiving compliments. To me, it's just awkward, and I don't really know how to respond. But, thankfully, I'm almost never complimented about anything, so it's not something I ever really have to deal with.

 

"Thanks!" is usually an appropriate response.

 

I can't seem to apply that to my own life and my own interactions with people. Any time I try to, I just feel like I'm being awkward and making the other person uncomfortable, and it doesn't work out for me. That's just who I am. I'm awkward. I'm socially inept. I don't connect well. It's not for a lack of practice, or a lack of exposure, or a lack of knowledge. I just... can't make it work for myself.

 

You're being controlled by your own emotions and perceptions of yourself. If you watched yourself interacting with someone on video, all those emotions and perceptions would be totally invisible and irrelevant, and you'd be wondering why the hell you were acting so incapable. Those barriers only exist in your own head. I'm not saying they aren't real problems, I'm just saying they're self-imposed and avoidable. All you have to do is summon the strength to not be bound by them and just act differently. Find the will power to move your mouth and say the things that need to be said. There is no physical force preventing you from doing it, just some made up barrier that only exists in your mind. Just follow the right formula. There are classes that teach people with Aspergers how to interact with neuro-typical people just by teaching the concepts of things like reciprocity in conversations, what's appropriate and inappropriate, telling them to maintain eye contact, etc. I can't see how it's "computation" when you can just write it on a notecard and follow it as an instruction if you had to.

 

And while I'm admittedly "unusual" in that regard, I can't imagine I'm the only one that is like this. In my experience, people who aren't this way can't really relate to those of us that are. In your eyes, we're just being "lazy" or "afraid" or whatever. But we're not. We're just programmed differently, and connecting with people doesn't "compute" with us the same as it does for a normal person.

 

We're going to have to agree to disagree here, and admittedly I don't know anyone's circumstances but my own. You can call it computational differences. I'd call it the strength and willingness to do something you're uncomfortable with for greater benefit. I don't see any reason why you couldn't just memorize the actions, or write them down and do them, as mentioned above.

 

And when you're an extreme introvert that has no "curiosities" about the lives of people around you? Me, I don't tend to wonder much about the lives of people around me beyond the actual interactions I have with them.

 

That's most of the fun of socializing, I think. Interacting with other people, learning about their lives, what makes them tick, having fun, hearing about their stories and experiences. It's a big part of what makes life fun and not so dull.

 

But to each their own. If you don't like that and have no interest in it, certainly no one's forcing you to do anything. However, if you want to stick with this attitude and still want to form relationships and human connections, then it all becomes incongruous. It's like you want the trophy for winning the game without even stepping on the court. The problem with a lot of guys on this forum is they want to know how to succeed without doing anything they don't want to do, or are seemingly incapable of. I see a lot of variations of it:

 

"How can I get a girlfriend even though I don't have a job?"

"How can I meet women in my city? They all go to bars, and I won't go to bars."

"How can I get a girl to overlook my crippling awkwardness and insecurity?"

 

At some point, people need to realize that to get things they want, they'll often have to do things things that are difficult, uncomfortable, and taxing. They will have to push themselves to do different things, learn from mistakes and successes, and apply knowledge elsewhere. If those guys are unwilling or insist they're incapable, well, there isn't much else that can be done if the desire to change isn't strong enough to make a shift, even an attempted one, in behavior or attitude. At that point they just have to accept the Darwinism of it.

[lisaloveshearts]

I admire people from afar but I am not out there looking for someone. I'm not sure i want a relationship right now. Despite being a happy person, I am not happy with my weight. I just want to get my crap together and work on myself right now.

[elaine567]

I am not happy with my weight. I just want to get my crap together and work on myself right now.

 

This is the difference between you and the unhappy dateless men we tend to get on here.

YOU have identified a problem and are working on it and working on yourself too.

 

Too many here seem to identify the problem, ie they are not getting dates or they are not getting women interested in them, but their solution is that it is up to everyone else to accommodate them and if the world won't accommodate them, then they refuse to play the game or endlessly berate the world...

[carhill]

Yet the OP, in their first post beginning the topic, wrote this:

 

To those out there struggling and who have spent perpetual years being consumed by the need to find a girlfriend, maybe take a step back, look at your life, look at the positives you have, look at things you and enjoy and try find that inner peace. When you find that then if you want go looking again, I reckon most ladies can sense a guy who isn't at peace or happy with himself and in a world where ladies are simply spoilt for choice those guys fall right down the list.

 

Is there some deep-seated need or desire to always bring things back to the negative regarding men? Why do you do that? Frankly, I'm sick of it. Disgusted. It's as if any man who brings forth a positive viewpoint needs to be attacked until you have him right where you want him, and then denigrate him for being negative.

 

Take a shot at me. I'd enjoy that. You have no idea how much.

[elaine567]

ZA dater is a quality person, and deserves a nice girl to love and cherish him, it frustrates me no end, that he is considering giving up.

Forgive me, but I do not see a 32 yo who has never really dated anyone, saying he is giving up looking for a woman of his own, as a positive thing.

[elaine567]

..emotional detachment is trying to win by not playing the game. In other words, by deciding you don’t care you can’t be hurt. The unconscious conclusion is “Why keep butting my head against the wall, why keep putting my hand in the fire? Every time I open up, every time I show my soft underbelly, I end up getting damaged in some way. Better to recoil into myself, to stop caring deeply about anyone or anything. That’s the best form of protection.

 

...This insight can inspire hope that recapturing the sense of emotional connection to life and people is possible. The embers are still burning, they’re just buried underneath the ashes and must be gently called forth in a supportive way that takes into account the perceived risk in opening back up.”

Emotional Detachment Is Trying To Win By Not Playing The Game

[Inflikted]

"Thanks!" is usually an appropriate response.

 

I guess, but that's a bit curt, and comes off as awkward without further discussion being had. At least in my experience, anyway.

 

You're being controlled by your own emotions and perceptions of yourself. If you watched yourself interacting with someone on video, all those emotions and perceptions would be totally invisible and irrelevant, and you'd be wondering why the hell you were acting so incapable. Those barriers only exist in your own head. I'm not saying they aren't real problems, I'm just saying they're self-imposed and avoidable. All you have to do is summon the strength to not be bound by them and just act differently. Find the will power to move your mouth and say the things that need to be said. There is no physical force preventing you from doing it, just some made up barrier that only exists in your mind. Just follow the right formula. There are classes that teach people with Aspergers how to interact with neuro-typical people just by teaching the concepts of things like reciprocity in conversations, what's appropriate and inappropriate, telling them to maintain eye contact, etc. I can't see how it's "computation" when you can just write it on a notecard and follow it as an instruction if you had to.

 

"Formulas" and "following patterns" are great and all, but what about sincerity? Having spent several years working in retail/ customer service, I'm familiar with developing "formulas" and step-by-step patterns with which to interface with someone. But I'm not particularly "sincere", because I don't really care. In that setting, my goal is to see what they need, and give them that as best I can, and nothing more.

 

Now, that's not to say I'm rude or anything to customers; obviously, I try to be as nice and pleasant as possible. But if customers get chatty and/ or make small talk, and whatnot, I just kind of nod along and be agreeable, and not have anything to contribute, while I wait them out so I can steer them back into finishing our transaction.

 

Again, that's not necessarily a "lack of practice" or a "lack of trying", on my part. Conversations are fairly "on the spot". I don't know how most people do it, but me, I tend to not be able to come up with anything of value or substance to say. Heck, if someone says "The weather's pretty nice out today", my response is basically "Yep". Short, and curt, and nothing more. Because I just can't think of things to say on the spot. I'm bad at being on the spot, like that. But that's what conversations, and interacting with people, in general, is. You have to be able to think on your feet. I can't do that.

 

"Formulas" and "patterns" are great, but they only take you so far. You need sincerity behind them, as well, and more than that, you need to be able to think on your feet, a bit, to keep interactions going in a way that's not awkward and uncomfortable. I guess for a normal person, it's not that hard to "think on your feet" when interacting with people. For whatever reason, it just doesn't work that way for me. All I have are short, curt responses, as I scramble for something more to say until the moment has passed.

 

That's most of the fun of socializing, I think. Interacting with other people, learning about their lives, what makes them tick, having fun, hearing about their stories and experiences. It's a big part of what makes life fun and not so dull.

 

But to each their own. If you don't like that and have no interest in it, certainly no one's forcing you to do anything. However, if you want to stick with this attitude and still want to form relationships and human connections, then it all becomes incongruous. It's like you want the trophy for winning the game without even stepping on the court. The problem with a lot of guys on this forum is they want to know how to succeed without doing anything they don't want to do, or are seemingly incapable of. I see a lot of variations of it:

 

"How can I get a girlfriend even though I don't have a job?"

"How can I meet women in my city? They all go to bars, and I won't go to bars."

"How can I get a girl to overlook my crippling awkwardness and insecurity?"

 

At some point, people need to realize that to get things they want, they'll often have to do things things that are difficult, uncomfortable, and taxing. They will have to push themselves to do different things, learn from mistakes and successes, and apply knowledge elsewhere. If those guys are unwilling or insist they're incapable, well, there isn't much else that can be done if the desire to change isn't strong enough to make a shift, even an attempted one, in behavior or attitude. At that point they just have to accept the Darwinism of it.

 

In fairness, I don't "not care about people" because I don't WANT to "care about people". I just... don't. I'd love to care about and have a higher interest in more people. That would be great. I just don't feel that very often at all. I can count on one hand the number of people I've met in my life that I actually DID feel interested in, but of course, I'm too backwards to have been successful with them, and I just drove them away from me.

 

Don't get me wrong. I've met and known plenty of nice, pleasant people. I just never really feel any kind of attachment to them. Why? I have no idea. I wish I felt that more often. I wish I cared more or had a higher interest in people. I just don't.

 

ZA dater is a quality person, and deserves a nice girl to love and cherish him, it frustrates me no end, that he is considering giving up.

Forgive me, but I do not see a 32 yo who has never really dated anyone, saying he is giving up looking for a woman of his own, as a positive thing.

 

But there's also nothing wrong with being realistic, either. There's plenty of things a typical person is simply not capable of. I mean, the whole "You can do anything you set your mind to" notion is lovely, but it's not entirely true. It's not necessarily a bad thing to say "This thing that I want is simply something that I am not capable of attaining, and thus, it doesn't make any sense to continue wasting time, energy, and resources on, let alone stressing myself out over".

 

I mean, one would probably say I've similarly "given up" on finding love or friendship, but I don't think of it that way. I think of it like I said before, being realistic. Realistically, I simply don't have it in me to have a connection with another human being, whether for friendship or for romance. I accept that. It doesn't have to be a "bad" thing. It just "is".

[normal person]

In fairness, I don't "not care about people" because I don't WANT to "care about people". I just... don't. I'd love to care about and have a higher interest in more people. That would be great. I just don't feel that very often at all. I can count on one hand the number of people I've met in my life that I actually DID feel interested in, but of course, I'm too backwards to have been successful with them, and I just drove them away from me.

 

Don't get me wrong. I've met and known plenty of nice, pleasant people. I just never really feel any kind of attachment to them. Why? I have no idea. I wish I felt that more often. I wish I cared more or had a higher interest in people. I just don't.

 

Fair enough. I trust you know what will make you more fulfilled than I do, although you certainly seem like an anomaly. If you're happier without human interactions, so be it.

 

But there's also nothing wrong with being realistic, either. There's plenty of things a typical person is simply not capable of. I mean, the whole "You can do anything you set your mind to" notion is lovely, but it's not entirely true. It's not necessarily a bad thing to say "This thing that I want is simply something that I am not capable of attaining, and thus, it doesn't make any sense to continue wasting time, energy, and resources on, let alone stressing myself out over".

 

I agree with you here for the most part here, and there is a certain zen-like quality to it that I'd probably admire if the concept it was being applied to wasn't so far far removed from my own way of thinking. I wish more people would be realistic as I think often times, people aim too high in their ambitions and just look stupid when they fail miserably. I think the unassuming, measured approach is usually best. That being said, for a lot of people, these things can be learned and applied to some extent. There are 7 billion on Earth currently, meaning 14 billion parents figured out how to get together. Not even counting all the people who lived before us. Even some of the most unappealing people amongst us can put in the base effort and figure it out. I think that for people who are really willing to not just accept fate, all hope is not lost. But to each their own.

[Aniela]

ZA dater is a quality person, and deserves a nice girl to love and cherish him, it frustrates me no end, that he is considering giving up.

Forgive me, but I do not see a 32 yo who has never really dated anyone, saying he is giving up looking for a woman of his own, as a positive thing.

 

You don't need to explain yourself to anyone. And I say that as a woman who has been as lonely, and sometimes as bitter, as the men you've mentioned. I have virtually given up, but I hadn't at 32: I was still very optimistic.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Fair enough. I trust you know what will make you more fulfilled than I do, although you certainly seem like an anomaly. If you're happier without human interactions, so be it.

 

 

 

I agree with you here for the most part here, and there is a certain zen-like quality to it that I'd probably admire if the concept it was being applied to wasn't so far far removed from my own way of thinking. I wish more people would be realistic as I think often times, people aim too high in their ambitions and just look stupid when they fail miserably. I think the unassuming, measured approach is usually best. That being said, for a lot of people, these things can be learned and applied to some extent. There are 7 billion on Earth currently, meaning 14 billion parents figured out how to get together. Not even counting all the people who lived before us. Even some of the most unappealing people amongst us can put in the base effort and figure it out. I think that for people who are really willing to not just accept fate, all hope is not lost. But to each their own.

 

The latter part here does make sense. There are some people don't have thata aptitude.

 

I knew of a salsa dance instructor that had students that simply could not learn the craft and he knew they never would...and this is coming from an expert. But at least they gave it a shot, righT?

 

Just like when Simon Cowell tells competitors they just aren't cut to be singers and to stick to their day job.

[LookAtThisPOst]

Even some of the most unappealing people amongst us can put in the base effort and figure it out. I think that for people who are really willing to not just accept fate, all hope is not lost. But to each their own.

 

I think I mentioned this in a post in the past, but in threads that go on for umpteen pages, it can get overlooked.

 

I've seen women that would get all dolled up, sportin' a hot little black dress, heels and jewelry and I'd see her with "a guy" that made no effort to look appealing. Just jeans, a wrinkled T-shirt and even wears a baseball cap and of course, unshaven.

 

You'd think he just came out from an underpass.

 

To them together, you wouldn't think they are together, but somehow she won over a mouth breather. lol

 

These kinds of women try to get their men to dress nice, but never can seem accomplish that.

 

What was it that attracted her to him.

[Imajerk17]

Yet the OP, in their first post beginning the topic, wrote this:

 

To those out there struggling and who have spent perpetual years being consumed by the need to find a girlfriend, maybe take a step back, look at your life, look at the positives you have, look at things you and enjoy and try find that inner peace. When you find that then if you want go looking again, I reckon most ladies can sense a guy who isn't at peace or happy with himself and in a world where ladies are simply spoilt for choice those guys fall right down the list.

 

Is there some deep-seated need or desire to always bring things back to the negative regarding men? Why do you do that? Frankly, I'm sick of it. Disgusted. It's as if any man who brings forth a positive viewpoint needs to be attacked until you have him right where you want him, and then denigrate him for being negative.

 

Take a shot at me. I'd enjoy that. You have no idea how much.

 

Well, I don't think anyone made this personal before this post There was no need for that comment towards elaine.

 

I actually think taking a break from dating/thinking about dating would be good for the OP (even if he phrases it in a moment of extreme frustration as "giving up on it altogether"), BUT I can see where elaine is coming from. Her comments were coming from a helpful place--"you're way too young to throw in the towel yet", which I agree. (taking a break does not mean giving up forever)

[carhill]

I stand by the comment and am done accepting such characterizations of whiny and bitter as appropriate or civil descriptions of male members who post here. What are you going to do about it?

[Imajerk17]

I stand by the comment and am done accepting such characterizations of whiny and bitter as appropriate or civil descriptions of male members who post here. What are you going to do about it?

 

Nothing. I don't think there's any problem with that, as long as you abide by the Loveshack rules and guidelines...